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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/15/2007 10:42:33 PM |
IT IS ALREADY ALLOWED.
Did you read the OP? It doesn't say anything about mandatory prayer for the players. I don't think the issue is as clear cut as you seem to think, so I made the suggestion, and I am glad that you are on the right side. If the coach or a player wants to lead the team in a prayer before the game, why would it be questioned as anything but optional?
"I don't have to take this test, because it goes against my religion."
"Part of my religion requires me to sleep in class."
Student: "I don't have to take this test, because it goes against my religion."
Teacher: "No problem, my religion says I give you an F"
Student: "Part of my religion requires me to sleep in class."
Teacher: "That's no big deal, my religion says I have to send you to the principals office." | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 5:39:47 AM |
Student: "I don't have to take this test, because it goes against my religion."
Teacher: "No problem, my religion says I give you an F"
Student: "Part of my religion requires me to sleep in class."
Teacher: "That's no big deal, my religion says I have to send you to the principals office."
What if the teacher and student are of the same religion?
There isn't a discussion. It's hard enough for teachers to maintain control over their students after they've had most of their authority stripped from them. It's not about debate between a student and a teacher. That's not appropriate in a class room environment, nor is a mini-Jihad or a cry of religious persecution.
The class room is a place to teach children the building blocks of education that will allow them to pursue some avenue of further education that will allow them to feed themselves and not be a drain on society.
The idea is to provide an environment of learning and Religion is a subject. Religion does not tell a child why things happen and if you want go ahead and teach a child Math using only the book of Numbers from the Bible.
Sorry, but Religion will only limit a child's education. Prayer is toe-ing the line at best. Obviously it's up to the parents to decide if their religion is worth the extra money of sending there child to a private school. After all what is a few dollars to show your God you love him.
In the mean time, keep Religion out of school's susidized by the Government. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:22:32 AM |
The idea is to provide an environment of learning and Religion is a subject.
I would think that excluding a subject would be more limiting than including it.
Religion will only limit a child's education.
Seems like a bit of a contradiction, oir maybe a paradox.
I am against subsidized religion, and I am for expanded subject material in subsidized education. It's a slippery slope for some people. I am against teachers who want to impress their politics on students. Can we get a public outcry about that? | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:32:54 AM |
I am against teachers who want to impress their politics on students. Can we get a public outcry about that?
We do. Often. Ever heard of Ward Churchill? Here in Colorado, we sure have. As well as a few other teachers who were recorded politically 'preaching' to students.
Education is state-mandated, thus there should be no church presence, as that would violate church & state. You want to teach your kids about Jesus or Marduk or whatever? Fine, do it yourself. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:47:02 AM |
I am against teachers who want to impress their politics on students. Can we get a public outcry about that?
Advocacy from any direction is not teaching at all. But politics is a necessary part of every child's civic instruction. More to the point, perhaps, since politics is the means and manner by which a society makes joint decisions, its every issue can be argued on the basis of fact and principle. Nothing is hidden that cannot be found, and none of the participants are invisible.
Religion, on the other hand, takes no notice of fact unless it is convenient and cites principle as a kind of post hoc self-justification. The rest of it is misquoting the dead. There's nothing there to learn. It's all personal preference and tribal mania.
But I'll compromise. You can teach religion in public schools if you also teach the history of superheroes. Cool?
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 12:09:29 PM | This says it all when you're talking Prayer in Public Schools:
The Pastor's Pen - By: JUAN NINGUNO
As you know, we've been working real hard in our town to get prayer back in the schools. Finally, the school board approved a plan of teacher-led prayer with the children participating at their own option. Children not wishing to participate were to be allowed to stand out in the hallway during
the prayer time. We hoped someone would sue us so we could go all the way to the Supreme Court and get that old devil-inspired ruling reversed. Naturally, we were all excited by the school board's action. As you know, our own little Billy (not so little, any more, though) is now in the second grade. Of course, Margaret and I explained to him no matter what the other kids did, he was going to stay in the classroom and participate.
After the first day of school, I asked him, "How did the prayer time go?" "Fine." "Did many kids go out into the hallway?" "Two." "Excellent. How did you like your teacher's prayer?" "It was different, Dad. Real different from the way you pray." "Oh? Like how?" "She said, 'Hail, Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners...'" The next day I talked with the principal. I politely explained I wasn't prejudice against Catholics but I would appreciate Billy being transferred to a non-Catholic teacher. The principal said it would be done right away.
At supper that evening I asked Billy to say the blessings. He slipped out of his chair, sat cross-legged on the floor, closed his eyes, raised his hands palms up and began to hum. You'd better believe I was at the principal's office at eight o'clock the next morning. "Look," I said. "I don't really know much about these Transcendental Meditationists, but I would feel a lot more comfortable if you could move Billy to a room where the teacher practices and older, more established religion.'"
That afternoon I met Billy as soon as he walked in the door after school. "I don't think your going to like Mrs. Nakasone's prayer, either, Dad." "Out with it." "She kept calling God 'O Great Buddha...'" The following morning I was waiting for the principal in the school parking lot. "Look, I don't want my son praying to the Eternal Spirit of whatever or to Buddha. I want him to have a teacher that prays in Jesus' name!" "What about Bertha Smith?" "Excellent."
I could hardly wait to hear about Mrs. Smith's prayer. I was standing on the front steps of the school when the final bell rang. "Well?" I asked Billy as we walked towards the car. "Okay." "Okay what?" "Mrs. Smith asked God to bless us and ended her prayer in Jesus name, amen - just like you." I breathed a sigh of relief. "Now we're getting some place." "She even taught us a verse of scripture about prayer," said Billy. I beamed. "Wonderful. What was the verse?" "Let's see..." he mused for a moment. " 'And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.'"
We had reached the car. "Fantastic," I said, reaching
for the door handle. Then I paused. I couldn't place the scripture. "Billy, did Mrs. Smith say what book that verse was from?"
"Third Nephi, chapter 19, verse 18." "Third what?" "Nephi," he said, "It's in the Book of Mormon."
The school board doesn't meet for a month. I've given Billy very definite instructions that at prayer time each day he's to go out into the hallway. I plan to be at that board meeting. If they don't do something about this situation, I'll sue. I'll take it all the way to the Supreme Court if I have to. I don't need the schools or anybody else teaching my son about religion. We can take care of that ourselves at home and at church, thank you very much.
Your buddy,
Juan | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:27:08 PM | | What we need is for teachers to teach ABOUT religion.....not to PREACH it.....there is a huge difference. Teachers who lead prayers are breaking the law....plain and simple.....I don't care WHO they pray to.....they cannot do that. The courts have ruled on many cases. Students, however, are free to lead prayers among peers.....as long as others are not forced to listen......like at a Bible-Study-Group or other religious student group meeting. Teachers may pray on their own, wear religious jewelry, have pins on their satchel/purse/bookbag, have a copy of the Bible or other religious books on their desk as long as it does NOT face the class. They may NOT have signs/posters/icons(like a cross)/daily Bible verses posted anywhere in the room. By doing so, the SCHOOL is endorsing one religion over others....and that's a problem. If students of one faith are allowed to form a club before/after school or during lunch then students of ANY faith/religion/spiritual group MUST be given the same rights to do so....and the school MUST provide a teacher/staff member to supervise the group. Students have the right to express themselves in art, creative writing, music, or other classes in a religious manner....so long as it does not infringe upon any other student's or staff member's beliefs....ie.....they cannot say/write/etc that their faith is the ONLY one and all others will burn in the fiery pits of Hell....etc.....et all. Do the research.....the Supreme Court has ruled on this stuff. Oh.....and "Meet-me-at-the-flagpole", prayers at sports events, prayers over the student-led TV channel(Which many schools have) and other student or staff-led prayers/religious stuff that is FORCED upon everyone or a mass group.....is NOT legal. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/17/2007 7:54:04 AM | | If you dont believe in prayer, thats up to you, but i'll bet if a family menber was dying, youd pray to GOD to help them,, right???? You know im right. If a person doesnt want to pray in school thats up to them, but prayer has been in school for sa long as i can remember and it never hurt ANYONE ! As far as our government goes, they are a bunch of idiots...... | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:28:56 PM | Hey, folks. How's about we all take a moment to breathe and relax? From what I can tell, few enough of us are in state sponsored educational situations, so it's almost a moot point. Beyond that, the simple answer's been taken care of. By the state. Do what you gotta do, just don't expect the taxpayers who might not like it to fund it, or the kids who don't share your views to participate.
Beyond that, if the Muslim kids gotta take a break for ablutions and prayer while everyone else is doing their gig, dice. If a teen coven decides they're gonna have a circle on their lunch hour, cool. And, if the Christian boys and girls wanna start a club to preach scripture at each other before or after school, that's fine, too.
Meantime, teachers gotta know not to bring it up and to let it go if it comes up. Not their job, dig? They gotta "get" the distinction between fact and opinion (same thing applies to politics, but there's no laws regarding it that I know about) and, hopefully, be able to share the ability to distinguish with their students.
It'd be nice, wouldn't it? | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:33:33 PM |
If you dont believe in prayer, thats up to you, but i'll bet if a family menber was dying, youd pray to GOD to help them,, right???? You know im right. If a person doesnt want to pray in school thats up to them, but prayer has been in school for sa long as i can remember and it never hurt ANYONE ! As far as our government goes, they are a bunch of idiots......
Not if they don't believe in prayer, maybe you're unclear what the "not believing in prayer" thing means.
YOU NEED TO TAKE A COLD SHOWER.... IF YOU ARRE AGAINST PRAYER,,THATS UP TO YOU,, BUT YOUTE TALKING STUPID..
Wow best debate strategy ever. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 12:52:14 PM | Prayer should have never been in a public school to begin with aside from schools that teach religion.
All prayer in school does is get attention to make the school godly or some other bs and yet here most people are ****ing and whining because its not there, so the **** what? school is to teach basic and advanced education not religion or moral value aside from certain universities. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 3:26:29 PM | Public prayer was not looked upon in a favorable light by Jesus:
AN ANALYSIS
In Matthew 6:1-17, at the very heart of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says some very serious things about praying, especially praying in public. What he says amounts to some rather somber warnings about the dangers which this kind of praying entails. In fact, he concludes that in general, praying is better done alone in one’s own room rather than in public.
Most people who will read this will probably be regular churchgoers, and likely as not, they will also pray regularly, or at least listen to prayers regularly in church. Remember that often the very familiarity—this is the way we’ve always done it—can cause us to feel that Jesus is not talking about us or to us in this case. The truth of the matter is that he is talking precisely to the likes of us who pray in church regularly.
First let us summarize some of the things about which Jesus feels he must warn us:
Public display of piety, including prayer, can readily become directed at the people who witness it rather than at God (verses 1, 5, and 16).
Praying in public places easily slips into hypocrisy (verses 2, 5, and 16).
Public praying quickly becomes a contest for the most beautiful and the most pious expressions—Jesus calls this ‘heaping up empty phrases’ (verse 7).
The length of one’s prayer is readily confused with the degree of one’s piety (verse 7).
Public prayer is often an insult to an all-knowing God because it tries to tell him things as if he didn’t know, was unobservant, or had plain forgotten them (verse 8).
It amounts to an appeal to God to review the praying person’s relationship with his fellows, for example, asking for forgiveness from God when one has failed to forgive his fellows, instantly shorts out the person’s own prayer for forgiveness (verses 12 and 14).
If we now add Luke 18: 10-14 to the Matthew passage already cited, we find that Jesus gives us examples both of what he considers effective and ineffective public prayer.
The tax collector, deeply ashamed of his lifestyle, prayed: ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner.’ His prayer was short, personal, to the point, {34} from the heart, and it was effective—he went away forgiven.
On the other hand, the Pharisee, a seemingly regular and experienced pray-er was, according to Jesus, merely piling up guilt and damnation by means of his prayer because: (1) he was lying: (a) in addressing God when in fact he was addressing the people around him (for, as Jesus said, people like him were more concerned about the praise of men than the praise of God [John 16: 42-43]), (b) in thanking God when he was really patting himself on the back; (2) he was utterly blind to his own sin before God—God did not see him as any less sinful than the other man whom the Pharisee labelled ‘a sinner;’ (3) he was insulting God’s intelligence by reminding him about his regular acts of piety that an all-knowing God was already fully aware of.
To continue this :
http://www.directionjournal.org/article/?504 | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:30:05 PM | Prayer in school shouldn't be banned anymore than freedom of speech. If students want to prey, that's fine. If coaches prey, and students want to join him - that's fine.
The Constitution doesn't BAN government employees from practicing their religion. It bans the government from imposing any particular religion / theocracy on it's people. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 6:24:50 PM |
If you dont believe in prayer, thats up to you, but i'll bet if a family menber was dying, youd pray to GOD to help them,, right???? You know im right. If a person doesnt want to pray in school thats up to them, but prayer has been in school for sa long as i can remember and it never hurt ANYONE ! As far as our government goes, they are a bunch of idiots......
Yeah, i'd pray to God, I'd probally also pray to Ahura Mazda, Allah, Buddah, Vishnu, Eris, Zues, and whatever other god I could think of.
Oh and as for prayer hurting people
Prayer, they determined, had no effect on healing. Even worse, those who were told that they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5313042
So apparantly it does hurt.
I'm fine with prayer in school, as long as its the kids praying, and not the authoritiy figures leading the kids in prayer, or expecting them too, or setting time aside, or saying 'let us pray' or crap like that like they did when I was a kid. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:09:11 PM | I agree with you Baldy.
I say if its to the person praying, anytime is fine where ever you are. And to those that feel no prayer in schools. I do ask? There are guns in schools why not prayer? What would you rather have? To me those that do pray, have a conscence. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 9:36:28 PM | The nifty thing about prayer...is that you can do it whenever, wherever. You want to pray? Get to class early and bow your head before the bell. I see no reason why there has to be a time to do it as a group. Do it as you walk between classes, do it as you're sitting down for lunch, whatever.
But not every one is going to want to pray, and as such taking time out of their day for it is to take away that much more time they could be learning. Pray on your own, don't bring everyone else into it. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/22/2007 9:59:35 PM | | I pray to the god of vichycyclism. My adherents never falter in their praise of their god. It would be seriously rude of me to expect any other cognitive human to share my worship at any time. I would fight such a provision. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/25/2007 12:25:59 PM |
I'm fine with prayer in school, as long as its the kids praying, and not the authoritiy figures leading the kids in prayer
I'll take this a step further. If a school authority preys - he must prey to all deities equally. The constitution says government isn't to FAVOR any one religion over another. It doesn't exclude a teacher from giving 'equal time' to multiple religions. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/25/2007 3:11:35 PM | I dont think children should be forced to pray. It happened to my two, my daughter got told off for not putting her hands together and closing her eyes during end of the day prayer. This was a new school in Wales that did this, her previous school in the midlands didnt do this kind of prayer.
As my children arnt bought up as Christians i have had them removed from collective worship, not religious education as i feel its important for children to learn about all faiths and cultures, but to be forced to worship a God they dont know is wrong and hypocritical. Schools should not force this on kids. | |
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| How do you feel about prayer in school?
Posted: 7/25/2007 3:41:38 PM |
Prayer in school shouldn't be banned anymore than freedom of speech. If students want to prey, that's fine. If coaches prey, and students want to join him - that's fine.
Freedom of speech isn't free if the people you're talking to can't escape it.
You know who pays the cost?
The AUDIENCE. | |
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