| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:01:16 AM |
What I meant about it showing a lack of confidence is it shows a lack of confidence on a personal level (I better make my claim on this person so people know he/she is with me and won’t attempt to cross over my territorial line.). It’s just a way of marking territory. Dogs piss on things, we grab them and display it publicly. It’s silly.
Yam, you're assuming that it's always a 'territorial' issue.. what if the woman truly is proud of being with this guy, and loves the touch of his hand?
As mentioned earlier, yes, if he demands that you hold his had in public, totally different situation. And I think you could tell by looking at the woman if she really wants to be holding his hand or not..
Just my 2 cents.... | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:04:35 AM | I think holding hands wins...
We all want sex but to touch with simple caring is kind of like actually sleeping together...
Our hands can show our deepest emotions... | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:15:04 AM | Yeah Sex is fun but after the 4th hr it's just nice to hold hands for awhile.
You forget how special the little things are when you've been single for awhile. But then when U meet someone you remember all the little things leading up to it being a Sexual relationship. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:20:17 AM | | i find holding hands to be more intimate......it shows that u really care for someone cause u are showing them off in public. Touching them in public in a none sexual way...tells people "hey this is who im with". Amyone can can screw u and leave.....but only someone who really likes u will want ot show u off to teh world. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:23:35 AM | That's the territorial thing again...
I find it truly intimate to simply sit together at home, alone, and hold the hand of my partner...
No showing off involved...
Just showing him I care... | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:26:55 AM |
what if the woman truly is proud of being with this guy, and loves the touch of his hand?
I don’t mean to say it’s right or wrong for everyone. But there are those of us who view that action in this way. Your more fiercely independent people - such as myself - just do not have a positive view of PDA. We see them as unnecessary attempts to remove “I” and create “we.” The “I” is simply more important to some people. I piss off a lot of women I date when they attempt to hold my hand in public. They predictably ask if I am ashamed of them - which is unfair to ask. I always have to explain - and quite coldly - that I am no one’s possession. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:58:28 AM | I don’t mean to say it’s right or wrong for everyone. But there are those of us who view that action in this way. Your more fiercely independent people - such as myself - just do not have a positive view of PDA. We see them as unnecessary attempts to remove “I” and create “we.” The “I” is simply more important to some people. I piss off a lot of women I date when they attempt to hold my hand in public. They predictably ask if I am ashamed of them - which is unfair to ask. I always have to explain - and quite coldly - that I am no one’s possession.
I read posts like this one and begin to wonder if people really know the definition of independent. When holding hands is a 'territorial' issue then I can understand an 'independent' person would object. However, when it is simply a matter of loving someone with such intensity that you long to touch them I think there is nothing wrong with holding hands in public, kissing etc. The only reason I can see someone objecting is if they are trying to keep their options open. Wanting to appear available should another man/woman attract his/her eye.
To me independent means, not relying on others for financial support, care, or money; being self-supporting. Being independent does not mean you cannot receive and show affection with someone you are in love with. In fact, alot of independent people date and marry and are perfectly happy. Alot of those independent daters are right here on POF.
I just cannot wrap my mind around this concept, how does holding a loved ones hand or kissing them in public inply they are your object or possession? | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:03:43 AM | | don't try and wrap your head around it simpletruth. This is just the way YamI and arrianno see things in their view of the world. So I guess we just have to agree to differ on this point. Just cos I hold my daughter's hand I don't consider her a possession. I mean if I made my guy where a collar and leash then maybe I can understand the whole concept but I wouldn't do that......well maybe once or twice for fun..but thats all...I promise! | |
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jaad
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Joined: 10/29/2005
Msg: 110 | |
| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:05:47 AM | I don't know if some of you guys have ever heard of a magazine called Maxim?
Well if you don't hahaha ok, this magazine shows a lot of pictures of men and women and sometime together on the same pic. if you look closely, you will always notice something. the guy always have his arm crossed and standing with his back to the girl, he always look like some kind of rapping star or a red neck or whatever. MAsculanity... so a lot of guys think its a sissy thing to hold hand with a girl, takes away at their masculanity. some of these dude always wear the big chains around the neck and more offend then none crutch to the knees with a wool hat hahaha anyway the dress code doesnt' matter, what matter in most case is the effect it has in public. and I would argue its for the same reason women who don't like to hold hand feels, they want to show that they are not a property and but obviously with this guy "for now" coz she's a mean tuff cookie you don't wanna mess with. its all illusions | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:09:11 AM | Why do it in public? It is, most certainly, a sign off possession and marking your territory. Most people like the idea of saying “I am his/hers and he/she is mine.” There’s a level of comfort in it. And that’s fine.
On the same token, there are some of us who do not like to be viewed or considered as a possession. It’s not a matter of keeping open your options. It’s a matter of saying “I am still an individual.”
Just as with anything else, there are degrees of independence. Most people have no trouble asking for help when needed. Other will refuse to ask for help even if it is readily available and would make life easier. It’s all subjective, really. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:14:43 AM | I think I have to agree with squirrly, becase I still do not see how taking a loved ones hand is signifying they are a possession. I can see how some people, insecure people might view it that way. But one confident, independent person holding anothers hand can only be because of love. I will agree to disagree.
Good point with the daughter analogy squirrly.  | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:15:00 AM | "do it in public"....god it sounds so lurid. DO IT? It's just holding hands!
So if I link arms with my girlfriend as we are walking along...its a sign that I want her as my possession? I am a touchy feely person (I know YamI...scary!) and when I am chatting to a pal I will touch them from time to time. Is that also forbidden as making someone my posession? It's purely human touch as far as I am concerned. It's not even sexual. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:30:22 AM | | So being in someone’s presence isn’t reassuring enough? I don’t expect most people to understand the way I think. Not that I’m “special” or “superior.” I’m just different than most. More aptly, I’m weird. I will always view PDA as PDO. In my mind it screams a lack of self esteem and self confidence (I have to show everyone in the world that you are mine because otherwise they may make a pass at you and I don’t know how you will react). Of course, I also think wedding rings are a sign of the same thing. But like I said, I’m weird. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:33:28 AM | You're not weird YamIhere. Weird is not accepting that there might be more than one reason for doing something. I accept that some people hold hands for exactly the reason you state. Now if only you could accept that some people do it for an entirely different reason. As I said, I don't think you are weird, but perhaps a bit closed minded. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:47:33 AM | Of course it's sex...Most women don't hold out, from holding hands, and no woman ,will make you wait until you get married to hold hands... On the other hand, more women hold out from having sex, and some women will even make you wait until you are married to have sex! Some women hold on to sex, like it is the antidote, a cure for all...  | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:53:20 AM | I fully recognize that other people have their views of what it means. I would wager that to most people its not a conscious sign of possession. And if neither person views it as such, then there isn’t a problem.
The fact that you said -
The only reason I can see someone objecting is if they are trying to keep their options open. - shows that to some extent you view it as a possession issue, too. Otherwise, why would you draw such a conclusion?
A better question might be, if you went to hold a significant other’s hand in public and he/she politely answered “No, that’s all right,” how would you respond. Would you let it go without a second thought? Would you insist he/she take your hand? Would it spawn a whole set of questions in your mind? | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 12:15:38 PM | Ok, I was done here but I will respond.
First I did say 'the only reason I can see someone objecting is if they are trying to keep their options open. I also said, there are times when it is nothing BUT possessiveness. Perhaps it was poor wording but what I meant to say was in some cases it is an attempt by one partner to not appear attached, just in case. And yes, I already admitted that at times it is nothing more than a possession issue.
Now to your questions.
If I were to attempt to take a significant others hand in public and she refused I would ask if something was wrong. I would not force the issue. I would listen to her and hope she would then listen to me. But this situation is highly unlikely. To be honest you are the very first person I have met to feel so strongly about something so simple.
Now to my question.
You say you fully recognize that other people have their views of what it means. The point is even when you are completely aware that it is not possessive behaviour, but a sign of affection, why would you not hold someones hand? | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 12:15:59 PM | Maybe the whole "no glove = no love" campaign had a completely different meaning than I thought.
I am starting to see the question from all sides now and had never thought of it that way before. I guess there is no right answer to this question for the masses. Both holding hands and having sex mean many different things to different people. For me, sex is more intimate however I don't think I will be holding hands without thinking of questions from this thread for some time to come. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 12:34:39 PM |
The point is even when you are completely aware that it is not possessive behaviour, but a sign of affection, why would you not hold someones hand?
That's simple - because if they respect my point of view, they won't push the issue. If they push the issue, then there is a bigger problem. Perhaps the problem is even something created on my end for not making them feel secure. Or perhaps it's their own unprovoked insecurities coming through.
Like I said, I’m weird. These views have gotten me into trouble - even with my ex. I view this the same as the age-old “jealousy” argument. If you’re secure in your relationship, it shouldn’t be an issue. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 12:49:57 PM | Ok, last thing I promise.
You mention the other person respecting your point of view. What about you respecting theirs? I think relationships should be a continual compromise because any given two people will never agree on everything. You want them to understand your 'weirdness' so how about you understanding theirs. Hypothetically speaking would you EVER hold hands with your SO in public if you knew they were secure in the relationship just to see their point of view?
I am off to work now, ciao.
Edit : And also, what if they did need some reassurance...is that too big a 'price' to pay for someone you love? Separate question from the one above. I am just curious. | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 122 | |
| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 12:55:53 PM | Yami
funny how people who make our points for us in their posts .. think we are a couple of unemotional men.
The thing i miss when I am away from my  is not sex ... it's wandering the market, holding hands. | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 1:02:15 PM | "The thing i miss when I am away from my is not sex ... it's wandering the market, holding hands."
Sicko. You would do something like that in public. | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 124 | |
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| What is more intimate ? SEX or Holding Hands
Posted: 11/7/2005 1:11:57 PM |
Hypothetically speaking would you EVER hold hands with your SO in public if you knew they were secure in the relationship just to see their point of view?
Hmmm ... I dunno. I mean, it’s inaction vs. action. I have done it before back when I cared. Of course, I smoked weed before, too. If I was dating someone who smoked weed and asked me to do it to see her point of view, would I do it? Hmmmmm
what if they did need some reassurance...is that too big a 'price' to pay for someone you love?
If they did need some reassurance, there’s bigger problems afoot than holding hands in public. I’d move on and look for someone who’s a better fit. | |
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