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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/8/2005 12:37:22 AM | The original poster also said he wants to do it to meet girls, improve his confidence and what not. His friend or whomever brought up Karate just off the top of his head from the sounds of it. Maybe his impression of****ness was formed from watching the "Karate Kid" lol .
What is being argued by a few of us is that there are better options. I suggested finding a dojo that offers more than one style, preferrably a place that includes both striking (boxing or kick boxing based) and grappling. Grappling can be more fun if members of the opposite sex are involved.
Karate is indeed incomplete, as boxing is as a defence system, but boxing is a lot more realistic in nature when it comes to actual combat as the other poster mentioned. For instance, how many times are you going to be punched in the head in sparring with Karate vs Boxing? Most people don't throw kicks in a street fight, they throw punches, choke you or try to grapple you throw punches or knees or try to take you down to the ground to mount you. There are also multiple attackers, and weapons you can be attacked with too, but in hand-to-hand combat, chances are, they are going to try to punch or grab you.
As for additional grappling and take down moves in Karate, our dojo ( Goju Ryu Karate) did a few self defence techniques that involved escaping grappling and street fighting situations in, but our sensei said "you do not want to get on the ground ever in a street fight", and they were designed to basically prevent just that with a choke thrown in here or there, to show us how it feels and why you do not want to be stuck in one of those positions. Basic, basic stuff.
My sensei, to his credit, would allow us to grab each other during sparring sessions, which I would do, and the majority of people did not know how to respond to punching or kicking off balance. Another time, we were practicing ground fighting, and my partner could not buck me off. Sensei tried to demonstrate to my partner how to buck me off from my mount position, and ended up injuring his knee in the process. This was before I had started Judo. My sensei too had experience in another martial art.
We were never really sparred using additional techniques (being able to trip someone, mount them, and fight them on the ground for instance) which would have been a good idea to see what you can, and cannot do in a real fight. We practiced escaping situations and holds, but never really sparred using any of them.
No one has brought up the point, other than myself, that he may not meet a girl at his dojo that is attracted to him or vice versa. Am I the only one here who feels he should keep his confidence building/training, seperate from his chick quest? | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/8/2005 9:08:53 AM | Yes; i agree with that point; for sure........unless he does find someone........he might go to a tournament & meet someone there.Maybe the confidence he gains might attract someone outside; that he wouldn't normally.As for punching; not in Judo!:) I agreed a few posts back; that there are some styles of karate that would be useless( I won't mention them) but I also suggested that he check out the dojos/clubs before he join......at least one other person did too. My brother is looking for a place for my nephew........he was in Sun Hang Do; and didn't learn anything!!! I told him that I'm going with him on his search; and find what works for him; it might not be karate.And not just sign him up with the first place he walks into!!
I'm lucky to have a sensei that's an ex cop; and an ex bodyguard, and bouncer- he teaches about street stuff; what you use on someone who's drunk and or stoned.......If we're working on tournament stuff; we don't do holds- but if we're not........look out!!!!- we don't just do it once in awhile either- you could get attacked by sensei; or another high belt at any time.
Maybe we should give him hints on what to look for???? If he has time......maybe boxing & something else??? I won't argue with boxing for conditioning for sure.......:)Some dojos only have class twice a week. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/8/2005 9:42:57 PM | well I guess in my original post I thrown so many issues into the pot, that I may not have been clear.
At the heart of it is a shattered self confidence by two factors.
One realising how vunerable I am, and realising if got caught at a standstill I would be hopeless at fighting. One branch, confidence to be able to defend myself.
Two because of an incident described below, my threat assessment is wild, always ready for flight at the most stupid of situations. Social life is getting disrupted cos I am flighting out of the pub or social dos cos I over react to something innocculous, and I am running. The knock on effect being its hard to make friends and socialise when you are rushing out at unpredictable times.
It seems by all the discussion that I seem some sort of level head to do any of these disciplines. Would it be a mistake to start doing anything while I am still wild with my threat assessment. Would be an idea to bring that under control first, then use it a springing board to working confidence, or can I be worked with in my state?
The background being 3 months ago some gang of eight young men with baseball bats in a goose formation (two ringleaders centre with 4 behind them spread out but centreish, and a guy on each side on the wider outside), wanted by blood. I didnt do anything, they just wanted a random victim.
Luckily I had enough space and time to make it a chase game, having taken them 50 yards up a hill, I u turned without warning initially coming bearing down straight then arc to the right, ignoring the wrong footed mouthy ringleaders, to have a go at getting past the outside of the outside guy of the gang.
He may not have been as mouthy or as tough or violent as the ringleaders but for me he was my target of the gang, as hes supposed to guarding the escape route. Unorthodox as it sounds, my focus was not the tough ringleaders, but on the outside guy of the group. Get past him I am safe, get caught I was heading for at least a coma. There weas no doubt these barbarians were after a dead body to brag to their girlfriends or at their next meeting of the Bloodthirsty Mens Club.
Luckily for me he was easy to beat for pace. And I was safe.
Within days I started get some strange feelings in me. Its the feelings that seem to have shattered my self confidence.
You would think that the relief of being safe, the fact that eight of them couldnt even get close to me to nail me, would have made me feel good.
Instead questions, why the hell did they decide that they wanted by blood? What was it about me that they thought easy target? Then a worrying self doubting feeling, realising that if I was caught at a standstill, I would have been dead. A realising that I was hopelessly uncapable of looking after myself. A realisation how vunerable I am.
Going back to the same area I felt myself always keyed up for flight. Even when its not appropriate. So where was before I would enjoy going to a pub on a packed night, with all the noise and activity that goes with it, I have been finding myself suddenly running out under flight response, because someone's laughing was a "threat".
The excessive flight is ruining the dating issue, and the meeting other people. Who wants to meet someone that is unpredictable going to rocket of the door of the pub, or cafe. Which in turns destroys self confidence. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 29 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/8/2005 10:45:32 PM | runaway......what happened to you was horrible; and unusual. Like you said; i think it was random. They thought you were an easy target; because you were alone.You got away; by using your head- if you think of it that way- that might help. my Sensei(karate teacher) has had the same thing happen to him; he told me that if you can get away without fighting,, do it!! I've noticed that when he goes to a bar; restaurant, etc- he usually faces the door when he sits down. Then, nothing can sneak up on him.-that's just practical.
I think you can be 'worked with' as you put it; go to a dojo; tell the instructor what happened to you; most of the time they want to know why you're there anyway!!! If you are at a dojo where you know that the people there are not going to attack you; it'll be a good start. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 12:29:18 AM | Well...
I think its good you are considering facing your fears of confrontations, perceived or real. If you train yourself for controntations, eventually it becomes second nature to you, and the "fight or flight" reaction you are experiencing will likely be more "fight" than "flight". You will build confidence, but it will take time. Just don't take Karate! Take something that will really help you in a street fight situation, different fighting forms were mentioned in earlier posts. Investigate.
Any trained fighter no matter how experienced, no matter how skilled will tell you to get out of the situation altogether. If you have to run...Run! This is not the movies, you are not Jackie Chan....you have to do what you have to do not to get killed. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 31 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 8:52:14 AM | | yardape........:) I'll have to sick Saiyan on you..........he's a fellow shotokan-er!!!! Just because it wasn't right for you; doesn't mean it isn't for someone else!--maybe i should get my sensei on this site; he can tell you how he fights more than one guy on the street.....maybe you just had a lousy sensei??? | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 32 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 1:23:13 PM | | yardape......another thing that i forgot to mention...if you go to a dojo just to get your hands on the women(literally); just see how good they are at beating the crap out of you. One thing mentioned in the 'dojo kun'; Respect Others. That includes women. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 1:50:15 PM | It's one thing to fight 2 people in a fight...quite another to fight more than 2 w/ weapons.
Who said I go to a dojo to get my hands on women? lol....I said it can be fun. Because at my size, there's not a lot they can do to me. I just suggested for Runaway, if he wanted to learn some skills PLUS get his hands on women, that Judo might be something to look at as well. It's not like anything sexual is gonna happen in a dojo lol | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 34 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 4:17:13 PM | That may possibly work, unless there to stubborn and start chasin you...that's when u grab your cell phone and dial 9-1-1...lol One thing I learned from a close friend of mine that has numerous amounts of martial arts in his blood is this....guy comes runnin at u in a fight carryin a knife. If you time it just right you can side step and throw a knee into his gut, which will more than likely take him down, or if you wanna try your strength, wait for him to draw back with the knife, when he makes his move, grab his wrist and press on the pressure point, makin him feel pain and drop the knife, finally commense on him the ass beating he deserves... Oh yeah, make sure when u throw the knee to grab his arm as well just for precautionary measurs. I've seen that work with my very own eyes...of course it was me that had to use that technique in the first place. Just my little opinion. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 36 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/9/2005 10:52:08 PM | | Bas Rutten has some really good self defence techniques for bars and street fights. You can download them using any file sharing program for free if you're interested. Multiple attackers, weapons, they're all covered. Some great holds/strikes to really F-up someone who tries to hurt you in this sort of environment. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 39 | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 41 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 11/10/2005 10:43:10 AM | hahahaha! im sure mr paulson and chinua were wonderin where my two cents are...
well here it is!
karate... is simply a vehicle. I aquired my first shodan (black) in1989. Next came my black in TKD. I have formally studied over 12 full martial arts or FMA as we call em, partially cuz..I saw flaws in each, and none truly captured what I wanted and needed.. I have listened to one sensei after the other preach about "their art" and "their way". key word: "they' not "my". Martial arts is about YOU the individual, and no one can tell you whats best for YOU. Martial arts is NOT for the**** or over confident... that will get kicked outta ya pretty quickly in most dojos. Maybe your friend really wanted you to be his punching bag... you will evntually gain confidence from that alone, for youll learn to take a beating, and not just give one. I have spiderman tattoed on me to remind me that with great power comes great responsibility. Avanced martial arts, for a period in ones training path, will create so much confidence that you end up worrying about... being too****... too confident.
Now for karate. its a vehilce, as I said, one system of many designed primarily for defence. To say that its outdated and obsolete is a reflection of personal biases, and maybe training with the wrong dojo/sensei. "he way of the hand" can be as effective as any martial art thats out there, and ranks with what I call the fundamental martial arts, esp. those whose origins lie in Japan. I have instinctively used specific kata based-moves in street fights against multiple attackers, even though I personally didnt like doing katas, and kicked some serious ass. Ive used purely TKD kicks in street fights too... no hands at all, and Ive beaten people using only my thumb ( like Sean Connery did in that one movie! lol). Irrespective, all the time in the dojos have familiarized me and taught me fundamental skills, but theres also having the gift of fighting, something too complicated to entail here and now. And theres also raw experience. Like the age old question: do you take the martial artist or the street fighter in a scrap? Depends on the circumstances maybe, but in the end it comes down to the individual characters, their experiences, skill, strength, not their particular style. Lets just say you cant train someone to be naturally tough and have a tough head and jaw. Roy Jones jr. would still be champ if that was the case. Most people argue about this martial art being better or more applicable than another, when they dont even know why the differences exist (I wrote an extensive papaer on this in university), or the history behind martial arts. DOES ANYONE HERE??? In general, many people dont even know where "martial arts" originated, but are self proclaimed experts.
I cannot tell you which martial art is best for YOU... only you can decide that. I can teach you EVERYTHING I know- so what? You become a master of what...my style, my techniques? Its all about YOU and becoming master of yourself, a sensei can only hope to train and guide you. So sayin one martial art is better than the other is futile, cuz personal preferences prevail. When I instructed, I didnt waste time teaching things I could see that the person just didnt have the knack, the genetic capabilities, to perform certain moves/ techniques. I concentrate on honing individual strengths and not on forcing students to do impractical techniques beyond their physical limitations and/or abilities.
The most important thing is the teacher, not the school, style or form or martial arts. As was previously stated, most karate schools will allow you to watch as much as you want, will answer any questions, and allow you to try out a few classes. Oft you will learn something that seems pointless or assinine, and one day find yourself using it to save your ass a world of pain. You need to train. and train. then, train some more. And taste as many styles from as many senseis as you can and find one comfortable for YOU, not your friends or what some guy who doesnt know you or really cares about you says in some forum. Martial arts is about YOU.. and your perception of yourself. Your esteem and confidence will grow in time with patience. Just remember that dojo training, no matter what art... still doesnt dictate the makeup of your personality, and cannot determine, in the end, how you will react in a confrontation. It will give you confidence to be the person you were meant to be, like char2's sister. It will prepare you, familiarize you with combat, and give you essential tools, but no one knows for sure til the shit hits the fan. Ive fought far more on the street than anyone really knows, and in years past I found myself venturing into the darker corners, goin into places where my black ass would cause a beef just being there... just so I can get into a good scrap, just to test myself, for dojo training always left me... wanting. And not enough blood. I live in a red neck town so trust me its easy to have someone pick a fight. It WASNT easy to overcome my introvertedness and shyness and stick up for myself... karate changed that. I do not recommend that you GO and pick a fight, but for those that wanna real taste of battle... train in the dojo, and apply it on the street. And be prepared to go to jail.
So yeah karate is as good as any other FMA, and like any, your sensei has a great deal to do with that.
Ok bottom line for you ALL (shit I shouldnt give up such nuggets of gold to those not in my circle, but, ah hell screw it).. you wanna be the best you can be? you want... a bible to follow? A blue print of how to think in your quest? read the Book of Five Rings by Myomato Mushashi... keep it with you, and read it and reread it over and over, til you start to SEE what its all about.
Ki-hi! | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 2/13/2006 3:10:19 PM | The
confident and**** usually don't last very long. Martial arts is too much for them because they are above it all. I have watched them come and go over the years. I had a chance to train with 2 of the guys that the JKA sent over here in the 60s. It was quiet awsome. Kinda puts alot of things into perspective. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 4/29/2006 4:54:49 PM | hi, its a tough question that my friend, and i have been doing karate for 22 years now. i think really it depends what type of person you are. you either have the fighter within you, or you dont, i took up karate because of low self esteem whilst at school, however, it changed me completely after 3 years, and then became a bully myself!
it wasnt until i got done in a competition! lol in the semi finals of the czech internationals, id never been hit so hard in my life, it put me off of competition for good lol
so that day i knew, i wasnt going to be a fighter!!!
however i did become a coach (quite a successful one if say so myself) but realised through karate what type of a person i am, or was.
one thing though, keeps your aware, give you an edge, that you may not of had before, which may just be enough for life or death!!!!
remember, better to be judged by 12 then to be carried by 6 "Geoff Thompson"
prevention is better than cure!!!.. if you sense something brewing, get the hell out!!
.. anyone can have a fight, not many can walk away from one!!!
as for martial arts.. which one is the best
well, there all good in there own respect
years ago, it was kung fu, bruce lee, karate Dolph lungrem, aikido, steve segal, and then the gracie brothers with ju jitsu, at one time they have all been beaten, so nothing is 100%
so if you choose a martial art!!.. top stuff, thats one step towards your new way of life!
if your interested in karate, check out www.wikf.com its the head association for wado ryu karate by tatsuo Suzuki 8th Dan
hope this helps! | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 45 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/3/2006 1:25:03 PM | | Martial arts does amazing things for a person... Its one activitie that focuses on every aspect of a human and it works to improve a persons body, mind and spirit. I have been in alot of different forms and in general beyond person preference they all benifit someone in all 3 areas. Martial Arts is more then a sport and more then a hobbie its a way of being. you can use it everyday of your life. Do it for you not for anyone else. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:22:04 PM | bull sh io t...
Multiple attackers awith bats? Unless u have a gun you did the right thing. No STYLE of MA is going to teach you to defeat those odds..unless its military training with a handgun.
As for empty handed styles to learn for one on one self defense I beg you to go for a sport oriented style and here is why.
While sport oriented styles my be incomplete you get to go LIVE , FULL CONTACT each class. You get to respond with all your effort not needing to hold back and neither is your opponent.
In the "non" sport styles most of it is theory. Yes there is sparring but the contact is generally light. Now ANY style CAN be effective IF you train it like a sport style.
Also a sport style teaches you to aqdapt and overcome a bad or even disasterous situation..
If you are boxing and your opponent punches you in the head you will eventually learn to deal with the momentary shock of those types of attacks.
If you are wrestling or doing Judo and you get thrown to the ground you will learn what it feels like and be able to react accordingly.
There was a reason that the early mixed martial arts competitons were one sided for the "sport style" fighters. They were USED to hitting, being hit, throwing people around and being thrown around. They know if a cricle block REALLY works or if it better to bob and weave...
Good luck in your search if you have any questions feel free to email me.
I am no expert by any means but I did 4 years of Uechi Ryu which is great in theory (low line kicks, power punches, conditioning of limbs) but I found wrestling and JiuJitsu MUCH more practical .. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/6/2006 8:49:47 PM | oh and just to add that this is not JUST opinion based I think the best style v style tournament EVER held was UFC 2. It was before MOST people crosstrained and they strictly specialized in one style or range. The torunament had 16 fighters representing everything from karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu, judo,muay thai kickboxing, kickboxing, ninjitsu, silat, wing chun, and more.
In the end this is what they found out:
The traditional styles were dominated by the sport styles..More than that, they found the grappling styles to dominate the striking styles.
Why?
Because they found that the striking styles had limited opportunity to effectively damage or ko the grappler before the grappler could take them down and either beat them sensless or put them in a submissionhold forcing the striker to tap out (give up).
SINCE that time most martial artists that compete have trained BOTH striking AND grappling and now well balanced fighters are able to stay on their feet long enough to KO their opponents. More than that is even if they are taken down they have learned to defend the submissions as well as regain their standing position once again.
Fighters lie Chuck Lidell,wanderlei Silva and mirc cro cop have proven that excellent strikers can dominate fights IF they learn to defend against grapplers.
Grapplers are also learning that they too need to learn strikes and striking defense in order to survive these events.
Again to my point, train in a style that practices with REAL resistance and preferably find a school that offers at least ONE striking style and ONE grappling style and NO I dont count Hapkido or AIKIDO as a grappling style. Look to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, Russian Sambo and Judo to round out your grappling game. this way if you slip while throwing a kick you dont have to wonder what to do when that gorilla decides to sit on your chest and turn your face into pudding.
Here is a NICE Mixed martial arts high light clip that demonstrates what I am talking about.
You will see NICE strikes, takedowns and submissions..aslo notice how similar some of these fights look to a bar brawl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOkWOL3N8F4 | |
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| I know this guy....
Posted: 9/7/2006 12:20:38 PM | In a nutshell that was the kinda crap spreading about TMA (traditional martial arts) superhuman ability etc.. of course most of this stuff was going around in the 70's and 80's through myth and movies.
Thank goodness some ppl know better. | |
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