| I know this guy....
Posted: 9/9/2006 10:01:04 AM | There are 3 words that describe martial arts:
PRACTICE... PRACTICE... PRACTICE! | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/9/2006 5:41:38 PM | I tried Angry Pajama Parties for a little while, no one there struck me as particularly 'cocky' or 'confident', most of them seemed to be there because they enjoyed the artificial 'order' and 'discipline' of all the rigmaroles you have to go through with the bowing, caste (=belt) system hierarchy, and did seem to have a lot of pent up anger issues.
Did not turn out to be my cup of tea, and imho, if you think you'll meet (normal) women at a karate class, you're nuts...... | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 53 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/9/2006 7:18:04 PM | ^^^thanks.......don't consider myself normal anyway....... there's another person who thinks all dojos are the same........and doesn't like the discipline part of it as for 'artificial'......it feels pretty real to me when I get hit by Sensei when I don't keep my hands up | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/10/2006 5:28:11 PM | chinua I respect your opinion but based on this comment:
and doesn't like the discipline part
It seems to me (in just my opinion) that you think that those of us dont believe in the bowing (especially to a foreign flag), gi's and so on are undisicplined. Yet check the "western" martial arts out there for instance wrestling and boxing.
Discipline is showing up to practice the next day after having run 3 miles, sprinted ofr 20 minutes after that, pushups, situps and jumping jacks, then going over technique, followed by LIVE drills where you are fighting like hell to take your partner down in 30 seconds, then followed by a live full 6 minute match!
THAT , to me is MORE discipline that I have EVER seen in a karate school.
I cant recall the last time I saw one of my fellow karate students puke in a bucket from the workout they just had!
Again i post this vid..the 1st half is mostly strikes/the 2nd half is mostly grapples...
If you have never practiced the moves you see on this vid, then you can bet there is a hole somewhere in your style.
I will add that if you dont practice your style in a live full contact fashion that A) you wont have developed the skills and timing needed to really protect yourself and B) you wont know how to react to being hit, REALLY hit.
All the gameplanning in the world wont help if you cant shake of a hard punch or kick..
Well here is the vid and then decide for yourself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOkWOL3N8F4 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/11/2006 5:35:18 AM | anyway here are some demonatrations of different styles. For the record I am NOT suggesting that karate, tkd or other styles are ineffective, simply that in order to be more proficient in a fight that you have to practice ersus a live resisting opponent. In fact the more live practice you have the MORE efficient you become. The bottom line is most recreational martial artists do not practice live nearly enough and then you have the stories of street brawlers Ko-ing or pummeling black belts. Also it was demonstrated guys coming right of the dojo hardwood were unprepared for "mixed" type of fighting where they could just as easily have to defend a punch, kick or grapple. The fighters that fared better were also black belts in martial arts however they fought live like you would see in kickboxing etc.. Some of the MORE dominant fighters in mixed martial arts have a karate background but they have adjusted their training to create opportuniites to use their karate!
Anyways here you go
Uechi Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjrtFJcsuSI
Shotokan (notice this sparring drill, no one is getting hit, no one is being grabbed or tackled, in other words it "looks" impressive but it is not "live" practice)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47gajcuhjWM
praying mantis kung fu- same sparring as above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlPNrSDuqs
Tae Kwon do sparring in a match ( better, some contact, but notice hands down by their sides etc.. these are black belts..where are the circle blocks upper rising blocks etc.. they learned as white belts?) I can say this though, that the guys fighting in THIS video do have some idea of how to defend themselves. Needless to say it is not "complete" but neither is Judo , Jiu Jitsu and wrestling or kickboxing. This is not practice but an actual competition , your sparring should resemble this comp. Of course you would have protective gear on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POCdo0TdCxU
Now some serious stuff..notice there is NO courtesy in the following clips. They dont throw back off allow you to throw then wait for you to back off so they can attack again. These guys get in your face and fight...just like someone in the street would only we would hope that the guy on the street is at least "slightly" less skilled.
Muay Thai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPfukurJdw
Kickboxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bkq7-XnqRc
Judo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AudoyKz8OIo
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvsoidud33Q
Wrestling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETD26q2g5U | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/11/2006 8:34:40 AM | Hey Runaway...Congrats on taking positive steps toward self improvement.
I offer this advice for you to take however you see fit. ....bottom line it has to work for you or it won't work at all!!!
Sounds like you are on a bit of a quest anyway, so why don't you approach it like that? Go to as many clubs, groups, dojo's, dojang's etc as you can. Look for one that grabs you, moves you, and excites you.
This comparison will educate you, help you become better prepared, and make you feel more comfortable.
Don't get caught up in the "My teacher can beat up your teacher Bullsh##"
If you would like another ear for your questions, I have a martial arts Q/A help line. Feel free to contact me.
Good Luck | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 57 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/11/2006 8:40:56 PM | lakelandism..........bowing.........is respect. I've never bowed to a flag........I have competed for one..........the canadian one when I was a rollerspeedskater.
Discipline is more than showing how tough you are..........its listening when someone else- especially your sensei or another high belt...speaks or demonstrates a technique......also you show respect for higher belts........because they have more experience than you(at least in that style).......its training even when you are tired....What have you got against gis anyway?? I find them comfortable; especially after years of wearing skintight uniforms for speedskating, danceskating and rowing.
You know nothing about me, my sensei, or the way he runs classes. One of the things I like and respect about him? He doesn't brag; if he disagrees with someone....he says it politely; not sarastically........or in a demeaning way. If your post was different .......more respectful......in a way that would make me interested in the sites you have posted.....I wouldn't be telling you that you obviously haven't learned discipline of the mouth(in this case typing)
nihidariashi,,,,,,I agree with you said about not getting caught up in ' my teacher can beat up your teacher 'bullshit........so many times people have tried to pull me into that. I work with people who go to another dojo........
BTW........the OP..........is in shotokan karate.........and has earned his first belt- we keep in touch. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/12/2006 10:25:00 AM | Whoa slow down there for a second. I was responding to your post that indicated that because swomeone DIDNT like the gi YOU suggested they didnt like the discipline part.
then you did the lil laffin guy!
I simply stated that there is more to discipline than wearing a gi and bowing to someone.
Anyways, if you have ever competed in a sprot like boxing / wrestling etc.. there is the utmost respect for each other. A) because everyone busts there butts equally, from the newbies to the top athletes. B) when the coach speaks the athletes LISTEN. I have recieved QUALITY instruction while wearing a gi and NOT wearing a gi. I have done both types of sports and find NO difference in the respect the students have for the teacher/coach. I dont find it neccessary to learn to count to 10 in Japanese or perform katas or bow etc.. BUT if thats the way the class IS structured I will do it.
I find a handshake sufficient.
No one is saying my teacher v your teacher because that experiment has already been conducted. The OP was asking about styles to be able to defend himself and I was using my opinion and the results I have seen to give him the most educated opinion that I could. I even posted links to these styles to demonstrate what he could expect.
I find that MUCH more open minded than you would give me credit for.
Also i dont see where I was disrespectful, perhaps I didnt agree and you may find that disrespectful but if thats the case, I really dont know what to tell you.
As for the vids, watch them, dont watch them. These are clips of tournaments, mixed martial arts events, In class sparring etc.. to demonstrate what a newbie might expect in class. I didnt create them I simply linked them.
:)
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/12/2006 5:50:31 PM | I guess we should go more on topic.
OP had asked about means of self defense, while most martial arts DO offer means of self protection "I" believe that there are more systematic and efficient means to do so. Without going into the long history of each style suffice it to say that some styles were devolped in ways that we appropriate for the time they were created.
That being said just becuase they were appropriate then does NOT make it efficient NOW.
Throughout athletics techiques and methods of training have been adjusted, fine tuned etc to get the most out of each indivdual person. I do NOT see the benefit of practicing a style the way it was practiced 100 years ago under difficult situations to be relevant today.
Now if the intent is to learn tradition and history THAT would be a different post all together. I would STRONGLY suggest a karate style , katas and all, to anyone who was less concerned about becoming a better fighter fast and more concerned with getting fit , learning about another culture and at the same time gaining some self defense ability.
I will say it again, I dont think any "style" or system of techniques are any better than the other for what they are intended to do, only the method in which it is practiced is what I am arguing.
I am open for debate and willing to have an open mind, I suspect that others have not looked into what I REALLY was trying to say and made false assumptions based on their own perception of me.
**Incedentally I feel that this post is VERY respectful** | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 60 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/12/2006 10:21:49 PM | lakelandism........I think we misunderstood each other......... ok? It looked to me like you were attacking the basics of karate- if we were talking in person, I might not have gotten that impression.....The OP.........wasn't interested in anything extreme......and he's already in shape- runs and plays rugby.
To some people; any kind of discipline is a foreign thing........they think its beneath them.
I think the style is only part of it; I have seen many Shotokan teachers....who are completely different- they have different experiences. One reason why I picked my Sensei? He's still competitive........in full contact tournaments; and thats the way he teaches. He also has experience in other styles(and arts) and is open to learning more. So many people; think their style is 'it', and they can't learn from others. I got hold of an Ultimate fighting video; gave it to him..........next thing I know......he's practicing that stuff on me We grapple a lot; we do a lot of practical self defense; more than simple wrist locks....and a lot of physical conditioning.
If you have any ideas for the OP...........send him a message! | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/13/2006 3:35:37 PM | fair enough!
we all grow through experiences and different viewpoints.
Its awesome your instructor practices full contact style and trains you all that way too!
Also whats more awesome is that he is crosstraining you!
Heck I learned (years ago) that chuck Norris (after a few years of bjj training ) decided in order to recieve a black belt in his style of tang soo do (or I should say his version) that he required his potential black belts to earn at least a blue belt in BJJ to round them out!
THATS what self defense training is all about! | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/14/2006 2:37:33 PM | Mr doug alot of us learned that way. The thing is that once you get a good grappling base then you will kick ass with that black belt in kenpo!
Chuck Lidell is doing so well in MMA with his BB in Kenpo but remember he is a former collegiate wrestler which means he RARELY gets taken down and when he does he can get back up which in the end means he has more time on his feet to knock peoples teeth in!!!!!! | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 64 | |
| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/14/2006 6:32:11 PM | I'm an ex rollerspeedskater/rollerhockey player............does that count?? when I joined karate; I surprised the other women in the class......I wasn't an average white belt. I'm more aggressive, and confident. Every sport you do helps with the next one | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 66 | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 67 | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 69 | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/16/2006 9:25:13 AM | Seiously, it takes a certain kind of mindset to do BJJ, wrestling and any of the MMA related fighting styles. It takes a certain level of dedication and athleticism that regular people don't have. I've seen hundreds of peeps come in and train for a couple classes and never return. Trust me, we are NOT REGULAR PEOPLE, LOL. Regular peeps do not like being in the 69 position under another sweaty smelly dude! So preaching all this MMA vs TMA is pointless. If someone wants to participate in an activity that teaches them discipline, fitness and basic self defense, then karate and kung fu would suit them perfectly. Don't force MMA down their throats, cuz believe it or not... most people are NOT LIKE US ;)
Not saying that MMA'ers are any more ballsy than anyone else. But we're more into "fighting" and we don't mind the pain and the uncomfortable positions in order to become a better fighter. Most people are not into "fighting"... self defense maybe, but not fighting. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/16/2006 10:47:24 AM | | Mr. marcus your point is well taken , however if someone asks the questions and says I want to learn to fight what do you suggest I will be honest about it. If they dont like what they hear , well thats a different matter all together. Or they can be more specific too. For instance "I am not hardcore but I want to learn some basic self defense skills and get in decent shape too." then I would have no problem suggesting a style that is more traditional and not as potentially physical as MMA or a "combat" style would be. It is NOT easy to train in the manner suggested by my prior posts but the results are indidsputable. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 9/16/2006 12:56:34 PM | | I took Tae Kwon Do for 4 years and earned my first degree black belt. I'd highly recomend it to anyone, I loved it. Just go into it with reasonable espectations and common sense. For example, don't act all**** thinking you can beat up the next tough guy who looks at you funny, or you can be a girl and walk around alone at all hours of the night just because you can do a roundhouse kick.... | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 10/8/2006 2:19:23 PM | As did I... mr Doug. As did I....
im surprised this thread is still up! looked for awhile like only two peeps were keepin it running....
one beautiful thing I have learned from karate 9specifically) is that, despite my personal dislike of a regimen full of kata.... that even one kata can be applied in a plethora of applications, and one could truly spend a lifetime... mastering just that one kata and finding new ways to apply it. | |
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| can anyone take up karate, or is it just for the confident and cocky
Posted: 10/8/2006 3:16:22 PM | | I been in Black Dragon Kung Fu for over 20 years now. Held the State A.K.A. title out here for 9 straight years without a single defeat. However, it is so much more than fighting. Now a days it is a way of life for me. It taught me balance in just about every single area of my life. The best fighters learn how to respect, and heal the body before they learn how to destroy it. I was not trained in America here, so I have not learned all their different practices. I was trained in Yokahamma Japan - where they do things much, much different. Now a days I help train the police department here part time and I have my own classes for women - they are free - and what I do is teach them anti rap and anti assault martial arts - a course I originated and designed myself to help protect women from any form of abuse. I am not big on martial arts schools in america - if you can afford it , I would suggest getting a private instructor, you will better and you will learn much more than is taught in classes. | |
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