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| Are Messianic Jews Still Jews?
Posted: 1/18/2009 10:02:49 PM | You do not know my credentials and I like it that way. Personal information should not begiven in a forum setting but you site sources that are wrong and I gave you real sources to look at and you came back with what some one said. I can quot the children of Isreal's Brother or Uncle they say that Esau or Ishmael was the favored son of Abraham and give you all the quotes they teach to prove that the Jews are not God's chosen. I can quote from Midion Abrahams last named son on how they are the blessed seed. You want to quote from a Rabbi that is doing the same thing. "I am more Abraham's son then they are because...." If that Rabbi has not ever gave a sacrifice on the alter in the holy place he is cut off from his people.
What?
I say if this Rabbi did not obey every piont of the law as it was writen then he is cut off from the people. If he wants to piont to a part of the writings and refuse to see it all so be it. I studied Judaism and I know its holes. I know its holes when it comes to scriptures it does not like. It is caused by emotion not logic that is why he would quote Falwell. | |
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| Are Messianic Jews Still Jews?
Posted: 1/19/2009 12:17:57 AM |
but you site sources that are wrong
So prove it. And do it on topic or this is just a waste of time and forum space.
I studied Judaism and I know its holes. I know its holes when it comes to scriptures it does not like. It is caused by emotion not logic that is why he would quote Falwell.
Bluster and bravado do not make a very persuasive argument. Either put up or frankly shut up. So far, I have seen nothing to indicate to me that you have studied anything of Judaism at all...make an argument related to the OP, or hit the bricks. The last thing the moderators here need to deal with is another preaching troll that just wants to bash some religion because they can't put together a cogent argument...but I will be more than happy to call them in to put the brakes on this nonsense if you can't address the point. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 4/29/2009 3:43:05 PM | It's an old (and boring) argument. I've run into this before with these folks. Some of them call themselves "Jews for Jesus," but to be direct, what he's saying isn't true. It's a born again Christian spin. Either you're a Jew or a Christian, you can't be both. The belief systems are incompatible, despite the "spin." Having been on both sides of the fence, I speak from direct experience.
And now, having left Judaism over 20 years ago, it's a bit funny that the same drama is still going on.
RTTS | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 11/12/2009 8:49:37 PM | There is ethnic and religious aspect of being Jewish.
From the religious standpoint, you can be both Jewish and atheist at the same time (in fact, most are), but you can't be both Jewish and and a convert to another religion; that's where the line is drawn.
Messianic Jews, or Jews for Jesus, don't see themselves as converts out of Judaism; why? Jesus was a Jewish guy, he was circumcised, preached in the Temple, observed Sabbath and Jewish holidays, and believed to be sent to Jews.
From the standpoint of everyone else in the Jewish community.. Judaism is incredibly flexible, it accepts and internalizes astrology, big parts of Buddhism, reincarnation, Big Bang theory and about every theory in the world, except one. Judaism is a strictly monotheist religion and can never accept that God is one, but there is three of him. Old Testament/Torah speaks very strongly against any manifestation of polytheism. So they don't view messianic Jews very kindly. Christians in general are still associated with crusades, conversions on the edge of a sword.. and messianic Jews want to convert people.. so there is a bit of friction. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 11/13/2009 9:15:14 PM |
Either you're a Jew or a Christian
So what was Jesus? Paul? Peter James John... That is total bull. you can not stop being what you are. This craziness is as stupid as replacement theology. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 11/18/2009 9:09:52 AM |
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
IMO.......Yes........of course they are.
When Jesus embarked on his ministry, his discourse was with his own people. He never addressed or sermonised to the goyim/infidel or gentile if you like, his mission was primarily focused on the children of Abraham, the Jews and those others of the larger Semite Family. All his disciples were Jews whom were the first converts to his new interpretations of his Father’s Word as presented in the Torah or Books of Moses. BTW indifference to what most assumed “Christians” believe, Jesus stated quite plainly “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them”. In other words he has come not to delete the Laws of his Father or the Prophets as stated in the Torah but to reboot them back into place but this time as he has interpreted them. The Old Testament remains wholly relevant and was never replaced by the New Testament. Jesus was starting a new sect, an off-shoot, a new interpretation of his Fathers Word as written by Moses but still remaining within Judaism but opposed or distinct from the old rabbinic interpretations. This is where he first ran afoul of the old rabbi’s of the old synagogue.
Had the Europeans not tortured and then killed Jesus, Judaism would probably be the only mono-theistic religion around today. Incidentally his name was never “Jesus” when he walked the earth. He was called and answered to his Aramaic name “D'aB,Yeshuoe” or “Eesho” in Assyrian Aramaic. I mention the Assyrian “Eesho” (Jesus), as the Assyrians were the first nation on earth to convert to his teachings. Jesus never spoke English, Latin, Greek or Hebrew which had been lost to the Jews for over 500 years. The Jews only spoke Aramaic, certainly those that were peasants only spoke Aramaic and Jesus as a carpenter whom was also the son of a carpenter, was a peasant. Only the rabbi’s and the aristocracy could speak Hebrew.
The terms Jesus, Christ, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jews, Jewish are all European constructs and not of West Asian origin or in the terminology of the day “Rome’s Asia Province”. They came about when Europeans adopted and then proceeded to adapt the Semite beliefs into their own culture whilst abandoning their own indigenous religions. Hate to rain on your parade but there is no Judeo/Christian culture nor has there ever been such a liaison. The Christian God Trinity is considered “heinous blasphemy” and heresy in Judaism in fact Judaism has more in common with Islam than it has with Christianity.
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