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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/28/2006 10:10:41 PM | Thank you so much to the Jewish people for stepping forward and speaking out for your faith! It gladdens my heart to see it...one of my favorite lecturers, even though I am neither Jewish nor pratice Judaism, is Rabbi Tovia Singer of Outreach Judaism, a great scholar who knows Judaism and Christianity inside and out. He frequently has to combat misinformation about the differences between Judaism and Messianic Judaism and Christianity...
One of my favorite sayings of his is that the best gift grandparents can contribute to their grandchildren is helping to provide for a good Jewish education so that the prosletyzers will not succeed.
Your culture and faith has been made war on by Christendom overtly (and perhaps now more covertly) for two millenia, and you have the right and the priviledge to be proud of your Jewish heritage and faith on its own merit.
Kudos and Yasher Koach! | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/28/2006 10:39:17 PM | I seem to be having some trouble wrapping my head around this topic, especially all the hostile comments regarding Messianic Jews.
It seems to me that if you're born a jew, you're a jew. Is that not correct?
If you have someone that practices judaism and decides to accept Isa ibn Maryam as the messiah, but they don't accept the New Testament and they continue to live their lives by the Torah and to observe jewish religious holidays, then what are they if they're not jewish?
Maybe I just don't understand, but judaism believes in a messiah, yes? So if a jew decides that messiah was Isa, then what's the problem and why do they stop being a jew?
In Matthew 5:17 Isa is quoted as saying: Think not that I am come to destroy (do away with) the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
I don't see a conflict with accepting Isa as the messiah and continuing to follow the same religious practices that he himself followed.
I understand that these believers were initially referred to as Nazarene and for the first couple of centuries they were considered a sect of judaism; so what's changed?
I would think that if mormons are christians, then messianic jews are jewish. Isn't it the foundation of a belief system that defines it, and not the fine print?
You live by the Torah, you're a jew; you live by the Evangel, you're a christian; you live by the Qur'an, you're a muslim? You live by more than one, and you're properly identified as a blend, such as a christian muslim (the Druze)? | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 3:40:35 AM | I had a messianic jew in one of my classes at uni once. It was a course on religion and ethnicity in canada, and the prof is one of those type who says that if you say you are x, who are we to argue?
He asks he students to introduce themselves, and since it is a study of religion and ethnicity invites you to state your ethnicity and your faith, but does not require it.
We had quite the hodge podge, christian, jew, sikh, muslim, etc...
but when she got up and introduced herself as a messianic jew, even he said "you know, we have a word for that... christian" | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 4:31:17 AM | From Wikipedia
While Messianics describe Messianic Judaism as being Jewish, virtually all Jewish denominations, Jewish groups, [9] [10] national Jewish organizations, [11] and many others reject this classification and regard these groups as Christian. [12] Most Messianic believers reject being classified as Christians because Christians, through various and often inconsistent explanations, reject the Torah and adopted "pagan" festivals, such as Easter and Christmas.
Well now... that pretty much says it all. Nobody knows a darn thing about what they're talking about no matter which group you're in.
So here's my thought...
Messianic Judaism is the in between.
Ok, You've got Judaism, which follows the Torah and so forth but believes the Messiah has not yet come, right? (I think?)
So then you've got Messianic Judaism which follows the Torah but believes the messiah
Messianics trace their origins to the first Jewish believers in Jesus, who called themselves "The Way" but were called "Nazarenes" by the non-believing Jews and "Christians" by the non-believing Gentiles (both terms were originally considered derogatory). Although belief in Jesus as God or messiah falls outside the realm of Judaism, few historians dispute the original "Nazarenes" were accepted as a sect of Judaism up to the Second Revolt.
right, see, "first Jewish believers in Jesus" they're still Jewish, they just believe in Jesus... (I know I know its complicated)
THEN you've got Christians or Nazarenes...obviously the term is Christian now.
Learn something new every day, never know Christian was originally a derogatory term.
That being said...seems like messianic judaism is indeed the middle ground between these two belief system. A blend of the two, if you will. At least, that's how it would be nowadays. Since heratige doesn't always fall into play anymore where religion is concerned. Even though it once did. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 5:18:07 AM | I've read through the forum and just wanted to throw out a couple of comments/questions.
Before anyone starts the Hitler thing again, check out the story of the S.S. St. Louis (not U.S.S., just S.S.). I remember my uncle had loaned me a book on it that talked about the voyage and the people that were on the ship, what happened them, how they tried coming to the U.S. and were turned away, went to Cuba and were turned away and ended up going back to Germany...it's been a while since I've read it, but I do remember it changed my understanding of what happened during WWII. I'll see if I can get the name of the book and publisher I read. Anyone else familiar with this?
Forgive my ignorance for this next question, but how would we know today if anyone is decended from David?
Finally...from what I understand...cursed internet education...Christianity was a movement amongst a group of Jewish people who chose to follow Jesus. There were other people during that time that we're claiming to be a messiah to start an uprising against Rome. So from Judaism, sprang forth Christianity, which might have been like a New Age movement at the time. So are Christians....bare with me....just a different kind of Jew (Faith not heritage)?
Where is the Trinity first mentioned in the Bible?
"Test all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 7:57:40 AM | "Ethnicity aside, what's the difference between a Christian and a Messianic Jew?"
Trick question..just kidding.
Christianity is an offshoot of Judism.
That is, the reconition of the Messiah Jesus (Yashua) prophetised in the Old Testament (Covenant).
Messianic Jews, at least most, still practice the feasts, new moon, festivals etc according to the Law.
Gentiles can follow Messianic traditions but you are not considered a Jew unless your mother was jewish.
Now, here is where things get confused if you don't pay attention.
There are two 'peoples' if you, was prophetised as being the people of God..
One, is Isreal (jews)..the other discribed as a branch 'grafted' into the tree, Isreal (there are other prophecies and scripture), these are Gentiles.
These two peoples make 'one' people..saved through the Messiah, Jesus (Yashua).
As far as worship, Messianic Jews believe the keeping of the Sabbath, kosher foods etc was given to the jews (Isreal) as part of God's Covenant with Isreal alone and should be followed until the "End of Days' when the Messiah (Yashua) returns a secound time to reclaim the Earth and His Kingdom. There are prophecies and signs when this will happen. One of the prophecies was the jews would be scattered..that happened in 70 AD and one of the signs is the Jews would return to the land, Isreal. That occurred in 1948.
There are some sects who do not strickly follow the laws of the Torah under the new Covenant.
The Gentiles, are not under the Law and Covenant given to the people of Isreal by God, and do not have to follow Kosher foods, festivals etc.
It's a bit more in depth, but thats the basics..
J. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 9:03:18 AM | If they believe Jesus is God, then they aren't Jewish, they're Kosher Christians. The Messiah is in no way required to be a walking God, it's a Christian invention.
Peace  | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 9:47:56 AM | "If they believe Jesus is God, then they aren't Jewish, they're Kosher Christians. The Messiah is in no way required to be a walking God, it's a Christian invention. "
That's why they are called 'Messianic'..they reconize Jesus (Yashua) as the 'Messiah'.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming..
J. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/30/2006 9:22:58 AM | “Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish?”
Other than believing - the messiah has had already arrived - if they still otherwise believe in the same concepts of Judaism - then YES! They are Jewish but yet more!!
I will try to explain what I meant by “yet more” later but first let me mention that – this post is just my opinion.
Anyways - if you ask a Jew that doesn’t believe the messiah has yet arrived – his answer to your same question would be the opposite. So, it really depends on whom you ask.
Titles of different religions are just a name that identifies and separates people of different faiths from each other and put them into different divisions. So, in regards to religious standing – the principal thing we need to pay attention to – should not be that so-called “brand name” BUT to see whose teachings they (messianic Jews) are actually following.
IMO all famous religions are primarily established to promote peace in the world. To confirm whether or not someone is a part of a religion - they MUST prove with their virtuous words and righteous actions and it should be in accordance to the teachings of their religion.
A Jewish person supposedly follows Moses’ teachings. Part of Moses’ message predicts a future arrival of a messiah. Apart from some dilutions some fake Christians came up with - Jesus could have easily fulfilled that prophecy. So, naturally (if Jesus was that Messiah) then those messianic Jews have NOT gone astray from Moses teachings and thus are still following Moses’ teachings without failing. So, the big question is - why can’t they be Jews then? After all, IMO being Jewish means – a person who follows Moses’ teachings!
Now, on the other hand if some Jews start to believe in idol worship and start to make statues of a god (made out of gold) and start to worship it – THEN WE CAN SAY THAT THEY ARE NOT JEWS!! Because Moses prime teaching suggests otherwise.
So, as long as a person is within the parameter of Moses’ teachings – clearly he should still be a follower of Moses (a Jew).
IMO a self-proclaimed Jew has no authority to say whether any other individual is Moses’ follower or not – unless they can prove beyond doubt that – that individual’s personal beliefs or practices directly contradict with Moses’ teachings.
In the case of messianic Jews – I don’t think it does!!!
I agree that –many so-called Christians have systematically (intentionally and unintentionally) corrupted their doctrines and now have wrongfully turned Jesus into Son of God or God and also incorrectly took for granted that Jesus supposedly died to erase their sins. IMO the New Testament has been distorted through fabrications, innovations, translations and retranslations. The messianic Jews may not believe in many of those fabricated ideologies – that’s why - they may have a problem indorsing Christianity. So, to tell them that they are now Christian – Is simply wrong!!
However, believing in Jesus to be their messiah – is not against Moses teachings unless someone can prove Jesus was not that messiah. So, technically they are Jews and more – “MORE” because they are availing themselves to access more information than what Moses left behind.
Special Note: A messiah does not mean a Son of God nor does it mean a God. A messiah means a savior or liberator. A messenger or a prophet through their righteous words can achieve that task.
Unless we know how the world would have turned out - had Jesus was never sent – we won’t know how much peace he really brought to this world. If Jesus had never came (as even a messenger) - our whole history could have changed and all Christians could have been barbaric people with no faith and the world could have been a deadlier place. So, who knows – maybe Jesus did balance the peace in some way. BTW, it is also possible that his job is not yet finished. Certainly a real God has the power to send his messenger (Jesus) to finish what he/Jesus started. In that case, maybe peace is yet to come. In either case, the possibilities of Jesus being the so-called messiah – should not be ignored IMO.
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/30/2006 11:38:01 AM |
That's why they are called 'Messianic'..they reconize Jesus (Yashua) as the 'Messiah'.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming..
Hey, that might actually be witty...if they didn't also believe in the Christian Trinity, Jesus = God, stuff...which totally goes against the Jewish one God, without a multiple personality disorder, concept. Better luck to you, next time. Save a drink, for me.
Peace | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/5/2007 5:39:39 PM | >>
No. He couldn't. Put in the very simplest terms, the Messiah predicted in the Hebrew bible would have brought about a messianic age of some sort, but that didn't happen with Jesus. Therefore, we have to conclude Jesus was not the awaited messiah. After all, could there be a Holocaust after Messiah? No. Just look at the facts. Look at world history, and events taking place in the middle east every day. It is obvious Jesus could not have been the Messiah. And frankly, I'm not even really comfortable with messiah-talk, whether Jewish or Christian. Seems like we ought to do more to make this a better world ourselves, not just wait around for someone to come along and do all the work for us.
Rescue fantasies are not very helpful in any area of life, whether in dating relationships or in religion.
Most christian claims of Jesus being the Messiah, in my opinion, are flimsy at best, and illogical and emotionally manipulative at worst. The elevation of Jesus to son-of-god demigod status is so very clearly a pagan influence on christianity. The Greeks and Romans had mythologies full of characters who were born of a human mother and godhead father (such as Zeus being the father of Hercules, etc). This claim that the mother was impregnated by a god, that is so completely pagan/Greek/Roman and has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. No prophet in the Hebrew bible was ever more than human. God is the god of the Hebrew scriptures, and humans are just humans (including messiahs and prophets). That's the bald truth people!
Oh, & I'm not Jewish by the way. I was raised Methodist, but got really tired of the fuzzy logic employed by christian apologists to explain away the contraditions and falsehoods in the christian religion. After all, if a religion needs hordes of apologists century after century, then clearly the religion didn't ever make sense to anyone in the first place. If it made sense, the whole field of apologetics would not exist. (i.e. where there's smoke there's fire, or in this case, where there are so many attempts to explain why Jesus was the messiah, there must be no shortage of obvious and easily observable reasons why he wasn't).
I haven't converted to Judaism yet, but it is on my mind. Thing is, I don't know how to tell my family. Or what to do about Christmas (since it's the only holiday we all celebrate together, my brothers flying in from out of state and all...). Plus, I don't even have any Jewish friends that I could talk to about it. *sigh* Not to mention the fact that there won't be any Jewish men around to date after I do convert, so I would be really limiting my social life.... | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2007 3:40:04 PM | at lex
No. He couldn't. Put in the very simplest terms, the Messiah predicted in the Hebrew bible would have brought about a messianic age of some sort, but that didn't happen with Jesus.
^.......since you were brought up Methodist, you should rightly know that the kingdom of JC was "not of this world"........so if you are looking for an earthly messianic phenomenon to have taken place then you are gravely mistaken!
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I haven't converted to Judaism yet, but it is on my mind.
^.......practicing Jews do not really encourage non-jews to convert......Jews were "chosen" by the God of Abraham,and thus have a direct lineage......they didn't volunteer or sign up for the mission!
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I don't know how to tell my family. Or what to do about Christmas (since it's the only holiday we all celebrate together, my brothers flying in from out of state and all...
^..........tell them you are just there for the food! .....i'm sure they'll understand!
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Not to mention the fact that there won't be any Jewish men around to date after I do convert, so I would be really limiting my social life...
.....now you are using your noodle!!!......which is why i would suggest you start believing in the flying spaghetti monster!.......you'll really be the toast of the party! | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2007 6:21:44 PM | | I don't know if this is my opinion but one taught to me. A Jew is a believer in the God of Abraham. Abraham was spiritually awaken to the fact of a one God. He had a spiritual awakening. Now Moses was not alive then and so I guess the name would be more like Hebrews. Jews also were not the chosen race, God did not chose the Jews, the Jews chose God. And because they chose God during the exodus, they considered themselves to be chosen when in fact its the other way around, is it not. Plus from what I understand and don't hold me to it, is that. The early chirstians were Jews first, and Jesus was a reformer, therefore the fullfillment of the law. Jesus then taught love and not the fear of God. The reason why many Jews in the past believe that Christ was not the Messiah is because of the catholic claim of devine birth which would be a no no to the Jewish belief that no man can be devine. Its not the belief that Christ was NOT the Messiah, its that Christ was not devine at birth. Which I believe also. Christ had to become the Messiah and practice Gods lifestyle so that he could become enlightened and function with God Consciousnes. Thus, The Father and I are One. That Jesus understood that Man and God are one, if we allow ourselves to live in Gods reality. Seeing that the Jewish people do not believe in the trinity, then they have no connection to God but are more like servants as Christ tried to promote Oneness through the Holy Ghost as Gods energy with all the qualities and attributes of God. Therefore with the holy ghost (energy of some form) you can become one with the creator. From what I understand, told to me by a Kabbalistic Rabbi. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 1:05:48 PM | I'm actually amazed at some of these answers.
First, I'm Jewish. I am practicing. I have attended several seminars on the subject and have very strong opinions regarding it. I think some of the answers above are confused about Judasim as a religion, and Jesus as a person.
Judaism is the basis of Christianity. The old testament is studied by both religions. The difference is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God. Jewish people fully believe that Jesus existed and was a man who changed many many lives for the better. We do not believe that Jesus was resurrected.
The BASIS of Judaism is the belief in ONE God. Jewish people are still waiting for the messiah to come. We study the Old Testament and that's where it ends. Christians believe in the Old Testament, but then also believe that the messiah already came in the form of Jesus Christ, so adds the New Testament.
Therefore, Jews for Jesus is a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION. The very definition of a Jew believing that Jesus Christ is the savior is Christianity. To me, it is ridiculous for anyone to claim that they are Jewish and believe that Jesus is the son of God. That means Christian. It's the definition of Christian. If you believe in the Jewish religion, you believe that the messiah has not come.
I'm not saying either is right or wrong. I am Jewish and I follow my beliefs, but of course everyone is entitled to their own faith. Just call it what it is. You believe that Jesus is the son of God? You're Christian...at least a form of Christian (Catholic, Protestant, etc.). If you are still waiting for the messiah and strictly follow the belief in one God as stated in the Old Testament? Jewish.
Did that help at all? | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 1:06:55 PM | (but when she got up and introduced herself as a messianic jew, even he said "you know, we have a word for that... christian")
AMEN! That's exactly what I meant to say, but it took me much longer to say it lol Thanks. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 2:24:47 PM | at Jadyn
Therefore, Jews for Jesus is a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION. The very definition of a Jew believing that Jesus Christ is the savior is Christianity.
......i believe you are wrong in many respects:.....first of all, you are forgetting that JC and his apostles & early followers were ALL of the Jewish faith and extraction!!!......and NONE of them was ever passing themselves as anything other than Jews, especially Saul of Tarsus............JC never came to start a whole new religion called "christianity" in opposition to Judiasm, he came in fulfillment of the scriptures.......it is non-believing Jews and Pagans of the Roman world who dubbed those Jews who were followers of JC as "christians" or "christian" sect of Jews!
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To me, it is ridiculous for anyone to claim that they are Jewish and believe that Jesus is the son of God. That means Christian.
.......you as a Jew, certain have the choice NOT to accept JC as the Messiah, BUT those Jews who do accept him, are certainly NO LESS jewish that those who don't!....Lets suppose that somebody should come along tomorrow whom you BELIEVE to be the Messiah, you wouldn't be any less Jewish than you are TODAY!......remember that it is the aspiration of every true Jew to welcome in the Messiah as a fulfillment of these scriptures, so if you read the book of Daniel 7;13......you will see that reference is made to "one like the son of man"....whose dominion is everlasting and cannot be destroyed, and this is in sharp contrast to earthly kingdoms/Messiahs....so in essence it points to a Messiah of Divine origin or influence!
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If you believe in the Jewish religion, you believe that the messiah has not come.
......with due respect, but who are you (as a Jew) to say that in order to be Jewish one must affirm that the Messiah has not come???....then when is a Jew supposed to believe that the Messiah has come?..because if you read Daniel chapt 7 and even Isaiah 53, you can see that when the Messiah comes he does not establish an earthly presence!!!!
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The BASIS of Judaism is the belief in ONE God.
......so is "christianity".......JC never instructed his followers to pray and bow to him, he always defered to God, since he came only to fullfill the mission.
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The very definition of a Jew believing that Jesus Christ is the savior is Christianity.
.....no, you are wrong!...the definition of a Jew who believes that JC is the savior, is simply a Jew who chooses to believe that the Messiah has come in the form of JC!
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Did that help at all?
...No,....but i hope that what i wrote here certainly helps you see things other than in black and white! | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 3:58:21 PM |
.....no, you are wrong!...the definition of a Jew who believes that JC is the savior, is simply a Jew who chooses to believe that the Messiah has come in the form of JC!
I agree with your basic premiss, sum1. At some point in time, some Jews are going to believe that some person, or another, is the Messiah. I'd agree that Jews, who simply see Christ as a Prophet, and that Messiah, could still be considered Jews. I would have called the Ebionites, true Messianic Jews.
Modern Messianic Jews, however, believe in the whole Trinity concept, not simply that Jesus was the Messiah. Believing that Jesus is God, the Trinitarian Christianity, and the teachings of Paul, especially, is not Judaism. They are Kosher Christians.
Peace | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 4:04:27 PM | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_view_of_Jesus
One of the better cited wiki entries on this subject with plenty of links to web locations that give VERY thorough explanations as to why Judaism does not view Jesus as the Messiah nor Messianic Jews as following anything other than Christianity under another label.
Certainly you cannot "give up" your genetic or tribal "Jewishness" by practicing or not practicing a particular faith. But you can't put plastic milk dispensers on a mule and call it a Guernsey either...and Messianic Judaism is not Judaism in any way, shape or form.
But there are some Jews who practice it.
As Rabbi Tovia Singer says, the best gift a Jewish parent or grandparent can give to their children is a good Jewish education...it would help put him out of a job and that would make him happy.
As to the interpretation of certain biblical passages, without going off-topic I think one will find that one's predisposition to accept a certain conclusion rather than reading what is actually said in context and the original tongue, at least when it comes to Tanach, is going to skew the results somewhat...I will tend to defer to a rabbi rather than a pastor when I want to know what was said in the Tanach. Don't go to an auto mechanic when you need a watch repaired. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 5:14:54 PM |
BUT those Jews who do accept him
...are CHRISTIANS. Plain and simple. If you believe that Christ is your savior, you are a Christian. It's in the title. If you are Jewish, you are still waiting for the savior. It's a pretty simple concept.
I forget nothing of what religion Jesus Christ and his followers were. Of course he didn't go around saying, "Everyone, let's name a religion after ME!" That came after his supposed resurrection, which...if you are Jewish, you do not believe happened. If you are Christian, you do.
A religion is a belief system. To say, "I believe that Christ is my savior, but I am Jewish" is like saying, "I believe that George W Bush is the best president in the world, but I am a democrat." It's just a contradiction. I look at my religion as a religion, not as a heritage. I am not "wrong". This is my belief. Beliefs can never be wrong, my friend. THAT is seeing things in "black and white" as you state. | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2007 5:16:23 PM |
Modern Messianic Jews, however, believe in the whole Trinity concept, not simply that Jesus was the Messiah. Believing that Jesus is God, the Trinitarian Christianity, and the teachings of Paul, especially, is not Judaism. They are Kosher Christians.
Exactly, thank you. These people are not Jewish because their beliefs contradict the Jewish faith. I like that term...Kosher Christians. Can I borrow it? | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/8/2007 2:38:14 AM | | So Jadyn07, when your messiah comes what will you be called then? Certainly not a Jew, right. If the Jews that believed Jesus was the Messiah can no longer be called Jews then you will no longer be a Jew when the "One" comes that you believe to be the Messiah. Especially if not accepted by the whole Jewish faith as a whole. Which would probably never happen. | |
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| OH LAWD.......Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/8/2007 2:58:28 AM | Madfiddler:
Certainly you cannot "give up" your genetic or tribal "Jewishness" by practicing or not practicing a particular faith.
Wow...here I am...impressed again Mr fiddler......(is there a roof nearby?) *grin*..... it really astounds me how many people don't understand the distinction...... in that....a person's Jewishness doesn't just stem from whether or not they practice the faith and do or do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. There is a matriarchal bloodline issue that most not only don't take into account, but don't even know about!!!!!!!!!
So yes.......**I am a Jew**...... and will always be one,...regardless of my faith.....I (and my daughters and their daughters etc...(no matter the ethnicity/religion of the contributing sperm) LOL.... can go to Israel and make Aliyah (emigrate)as long as we can prove our bloodline,......EVEN IF I WENT TO HAND IN MY PAPERS WITH A "Jesus is my home-boy" T-SHIRT ON!!! :stop::stop:
Under Israel's Law of Return, any Jew can make aliyah and become a citizen of the state. (jewishindependent.ca)
On a more personal note:
(My brother lived in Israel for over a year, didn't practice the religion, and was told by authorities while there, all one has to do to be proven a Jew (and thus allowed to emigrate)....REGARDLESS OF SPIRITUAL FAITH is...........drumroll please........prove your maternal bloodline.
Soooo..... if you look at it that way....... it seems a Jew is a Jew is a Jew!.......are you? *wink*
Moi
:peace: | |
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| Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/8/2007 7:05:53 AM | by thisizmyprofile:
“There is a matriarchal bloodline issue that most not only don't take into account, but don't even know about!!!!!!!!!”
Please show some verses from your original doctrine to support this. NOT some rabbinic (manmade) cr*p. I want to see if it can be traced to Moses own mouth.
I don’t believe Moses would say anything to that notion. Hence, unless you can show some verse from your ultimate doctrine – this (if true at all) must be a manmade innovation or traditional cr*p. This, most likely had NOTHING to do with the real teachings of Moses.
Prove me wrong!
Then I can begin to say - Jewish people are following a religion that makes no sense to me. Why would a real God set such standards or restrictions to be a Jew?
I am waiting for those verses… Otherwise it is just you and few other who think a traditional cr*p is really the original teachings of Moses.
Tradition practices and real teaching differ from time to time in many societies. This is why I believe more prophet/s are sent to correct those delusional people.
Okay! Let's see those verses.
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