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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 11/25/2005 7:10:43 PM | @@Italian43, are you here to spread the Good News by insulting those who are to discuss reincarnation which btw is not nearly as cut and dried of an issue as you seem to make it out. Perhaps you would care to give us your thoughts on some of the biblical verses that have been mentioned which allude to the subject manner.
OT=In some of the other religions that have reincarnation what would happen to all those souls if the world were to come to an end? | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 11/26/2005 7:23:41 AM | Sounds like the motivation to be good is about as strong as in the christian faiths. Yes, Christianity talks about eternity instead of your next life....but for most of us, a lifetime is an eternity.
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I dunno,how many sermons have you heard from hellfire and brimstone preachers who could describe an eternal burning hell with such conviction that it sounds like they were born and raised there?Somehow to be reincarnated as a mosquito to live one day to get squashed on windhield pales in comparison. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 11/26/2005 1:38:18 PM | Just to set the record straight: to try to understand if reincarnation is for real, or if Christianity has any connections to it, does not mean I, or anyone else, on this thread is not a Christian; nor does it mean anyone is denouncing Christianity in any way, or anyone is worshipping any other faiths or cults. I, for one, have a curious mind and I am interested in learning the many histories and origins of other faiths and beliefs, like reincarnation, and how things may tie into Christianity. Unfortunately, there are many things in this thread that can not be proven too easily for either side, so for everything said, I take with only great consideration and not fact. I am still (for the most part) a devout Christian, and (for the most part) follow Christian rules or morals. So, for all hard core bible thumpers, lighten up, and don't jump off the band wagon!! Okay!!  | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 12:47:39 PM | Happening... The Vatican is Catholic. Not Christen. Alright? And yes they did compress the original 66 books into one to gain control. But dumb ass catholics still belive them. That is the catholic bible that you are refuring to... The christen bible was suposily written by many different people... which is where we get the different books. John wrote John, Luke wrote Luke and so on. According to the Christen church the bible has never been tampered with... Except to form different religons and types of chrisianity. I myself thinks its all just a load of crap. And that Jesus was just some crazy guy that thought he was the son of a higher power. | |
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funn1
| Joined: 1/8/2005 Msg: 58 | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 2:31:02 PM |
Happening... The Vatican is Catholic. Not Christen. Alright?
Do Chatholics not believe in Jesus? Of course they do! And if they believe in Jesus, they are Christians. Why would you think they are not?
SweetTreat, I would love to hear some of those passages!  | |
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funn1
| Joined: 1/8/2005 Msg: 62 | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 3:28:19 PM | SweetTreat, I would love to hear some of those passages
Happening...I'll be happy to post a few verses here, but like I said: The Bible doesn't explicitly say anything about reincarnation...as with many things in the Bible...you interpret it as you will. The best verse is the following (this is actually a post I made in this thread -post27- that I will paste...it gives the verse and my interpretation of it, as well I'll post other verses)
John 9:1-2
"As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life
Okay...that to me is one of the better verses that you could interpret reincarnation from...some other verses....
Matt. 11:13-14
"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come."
And than Jesus spells it out clearer for the slow folks :P
Matt. 17:10-13
"And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand." Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist."
So...The Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. There are two important conclusions we can draw from this:
(1) The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah. (2) Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come. Based on these conclusions alone, either (A) or (B) must be true:
(A) John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...
(B) John was not Elijah reincarnated which means that Elijah himself did not return. And if this is true then either (1) or (2) listed below is true: (1) Malachi’s prophecy concerning Elijah's return to life before the coming of the Messiah failed to happen. This would mean that God does not keep his promise and that the Bible is fallible. OR... (2) Jesus was not the Messiah. Based on all the logic presented thus far, only one of the following conclusions is true: (A) Reincarnation is a reality OR... (B) Jesus was not the Messiah OR... (C) Bible prophecies are not reliable. | |
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funn1
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 4:41:41 PM | 1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I[a] must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
The point of this is not about previous lives, Im sorry. it is a story about Jesus healing a man, if you read the entire chapter it gets clear what is being said.
HEB 9:26-28
26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 4:44:55 PM |
The point of this is not about previous lives, Im sorry. it is a story about Jesus healing a man, if you read the entire chapter it gets clear what is being said.
Whether the "point" of the story was that jesus heals or not still does not discredit what the disciples asked of Jesus, nor what Jesus answer to the disciples was. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 5:19:30 PM | Hey Miss Music:
You were wondering if anyone in here believes in reincarnation. I was born Anglican, converted to Athiesm for 12 years, and have now migrated towards a New Age perspective with some Buddhist leanings. I firmly believe that reincarnation exists. I found an article on http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnation.html that spins a pretty good yarn.
Could a Little Boy Be Proof of Reincarnation? ABC News April 15, 2004
Nearly six decades ago, a 21-year-old Navy fighter pilot on a mission over the Pacific was shot down by Japanese artillery. His name might have been forgotten, were it not for 6-year-old James Leininger.
Quite a few people — including those who knew the fighter pilot — think James is the pilot, reincarnated. James' parents, Andrea and Bruce, a highly educated, modern couple, say they are "probably the people least likely to have a scenario like this pop up in their lives." But over time, they have become convinced their little son has had a former life.
From an early age, James would play with nothing else but planes, his parents say. But when he was 2, they said the planes their son loved began to give him regular nightmares. "I'd wake him up and he'd be screaming," Andrea told ABCNEWS' Chris Cuomo. She said when she asked her son what he was dreaming about, he would say, "Airplane crash on fire, little man can't get out."
Reality Check
Andrea says her mom was the first to suggest James was remembering a past life. At first, Andrea says she was doubtful. James was only watching kids' shows, his parents say, and they weren't watching World War II documentaries or conversing about military history. But as time went by, Andrea began to wonder what to believe. In one video of James at age 3, he goes over a plane as if he's doing a preflight check.
Another time, Andrea said, she bought him a toy plane, and pointed out what appeared to be a bomb on its underside. She says James corrected her, and told her it was a drop tank. "I'd never heard of a drop tank," she said. "I didn't know what a drop tank was."
Then James' violent nightmares got worse, occurring three and four times a week. Andrea's mother suggested she look into the work of counselor and therapist Carol Bowman, who believes that the dead sometimes can be reborn.
With guidance from Bowman, they began to encourage James to share his memories — and immediately, Andrea says, the nightmares started become less frequent. James was also becoming more articulate about his apparent past, she said.
Bowman said James was at the age when former lives are most easily recalled. "They haven't had the cultural conditioning, the layering over the experience in this life so the memories can percolate up more easily," she said.
F4U Corsair
Trail of Mysteries
Over time, James' parents say he revealed extraordinary details about the life of a former fighter pilot — mostly at bedtime, when he was drowsy. They say James told them his plane had been hit by the Japanese and crashed. Andrea says James told his father he flew a Corsair, and then told her, "They used to get flat tires all the time." In fact, historians and pilots agree that the plane's tires took a lot of punishment on landing. But that's a fact that could easily be found in books or on television.
Andrea says James also told his father the name of the boat he took off from — Natoma — and the name of someone he flew with — "Jack Larson." After some research, Bruce discovered both the Natoma and Jack Larson were real. The Natoma Bay was a small aircraft carrier in the Pacific. And Larson is living in Arkansas. "It was like, holy mackerel," Bruce said. "You could have poured my brains out of my ears. I just couldn't believe it.
USS Natoma Bay
James 2 = James M. Huston Jr.?
Bruce became obsessed, searching the Internet, combing through military records and interviewing men who served aboard the Natoma Bay.
He said James told him he had been shot down at Iwo Jima. James had also begun signing his crayon drawings "James 3." Bruce soon learned that the only pilot from the squadron killed at Iwo Jima was James M. Huston Jr.
Bruce says James also told him his plane had sustained a direct hit on the engine. Ralph Clarbour, a rear gunner on a U.S. airplane that flew off the Natoma Bay, says his plane was right next to one flown by James M. Huston Jr. during a raid near Iwo Jima on March 3, 1945. Clarbour said he saw Huston's plane struck by anti-aircraft fire. "I would say he was hit head on, right in the middle of the engine," he said.
Treasured Mementos
Bruce says he now believes his son had a past life in which he was James M. Huston Jr. "He came back because he wasn't finished with something." The Leiningers wrote a letter to Huston's sister, Anne Barron, about their little boy. And now she believes it as well. "The child was so convincing in coming up with all the things that there is no way on the world he could know," she said.
But Professor Paul Kurtz of the State University of New York at Buffalo, who heads an organization that investigates claims of the paranormal, says he thinks the parents are "self-deceived." "They're fascinated by the mysterious and they built up a fairy tale," he said.
James' vivid, alleged recollections are starting to fade as he gets older — but among his prized possessions remain two haunting presents sent to him by Barron: a bust of George Washington and a model of a Corsair aircraft. They were among the personal effects of James Huston sent home after the war.
"He appears to have experienced something that I don't think is unique, but the way it's been revealed is quite astounding," Bruce said. Asked if the idea that James may have been someone else changes his or his wife's feeling about their son, Bruce said: "It doesn't change how we think. I don't look at him and say, 'That's not my boy.' That's my boy." | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 5:40:46 PM | | I have just read this thread right through and I have to admit I am sill not sure what to think about reincarnation, but Christ returned after His death, in the garden, and was not recognized until He spoke... does this have any bearing on reincarnation? | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 7:02:00 PM | | As far as I know - no! Jesus was suppose to have been resurrected, not reincarnated. He showed up 3 days after his death in the same body which died on the cross; if he were reincarnated, he would have had to of been reborn as a baby, with his previous soul! | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs? Posted: 12/1/2005 10:34:45 PM | Skeeter, I've always found it much more useful to have a debate that is based on actual facts. It avoids the slide into name-calling and hear-say when people have to PROVE their statements with facts.
I was hoping that someone who believed in reincarnation would explain what the belief actually is. THEN, we could then answer whether or not it goes against Christian beliefs. As it is, several different opinions have been presented on what the beliefs of reincarnation actually are. If we don't even know what beliefs we're talking about, it's difficult to answer the original question. On that basis, I judged my question to be on topic. | |
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j-roc
| Joined: 5/24/2005 Msg: 75 | |
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