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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 6:36:13 PM | Here is a little tid bit i cut and pasted . I dont know the vadality of it. So if there are errors please correct
Edgar Cayce, " the Sleeping Prophet". Claimed to be a devout Christian, he departed from his Christian beliefs, by practices and the teachings that he was learning from spirit guides. Cayce would go into a sleep-like state, a trance state and give readings on individuals who could have been hundreds of miles away, people he had never met. He'd be able to explain and diagnose exactly what was wrong with them in their sicknesses, this consisted of spiritual and medical matters, and much of his diagnosis was uncannily correct.
He stated his experiences had given him new insight into the Bible and helped clarify and explain the Bible to him. He considered the Bible the greatest record of psychic experiences. During his trance he would have an entity who would speak that was clearly different from himself. Much of what was communicated went against his own beliefs and a process began which, in time, had him abandoning his own Christian beliefs for the new spiritual information that his spirit was giving him. In 1932, he awoke from a session and was told in that session that reincarnation was a reality and throughout his career he received such information on subjects as planetary journeys, past lives, how they related to someone's current karmic past, and even about the Akashic records, which was an invisible blueprint in the ethers that held all that was ever said or done by mankind.
Now, here's an interesting statement from Cayce, who all along was gaining all this new information, yet still wondered if it was correct. He suspected demonic influences with his revelations. "That's what I always thought and against this I put the idea that the Devil might be tempting me to do his work by operating through me when I was conceited enough to think God has given me special power. If ever the Devil was to play a trick on me, this would it." | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 6:49:23 PM | I like this, the soul had to have had a beginning, so it was pure/sinless so what is the point of it incarnating?? I like this statement below and to answer the question posed as Art did is to assume there was a prodigal soul...
The problem is that each person had a first incarnation. That means that each person then had perfect Karma since he had no previous life and had done nothing wrong. Therefore, if he had perfect Karma and didn't learn or do what he was supposed to in his first life, then what makes him think that after hundreds of incarnations with accumulated bad karma that he will be able to achieve the perfect state of union with the divine consciousness that reincarnation moves him toward? It doesn't make any sense
^^ thats a good point... | |
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Cynnie
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Joined: 12/24/2005
Msg: 178 | |
| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:16:32 PM | like this, the soul had to have had a beginning, so it was pure/sinless so what is the point of it incarnating?? I like this statement below and to answer the question posed as Art did is to assume there was a prodigal soul...
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My humble belief is we're born with a lesson to be learned ...and we get many chances, as many as it takes to succeed..
And then we're allowed to join God. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:25:17 PM | "I can read reincarnation into the Bible and you can read it right back out again."
Yes it is true, and it could also be said, the same the other way around. I am, by no means knocking what you believe. I'm simply stating how i take things.
Agreed, Davie. We all tend to get a little hot under the collar arguing about these things. I suppose that -- believing as each of us does that our interpretation of the scriptures is the correct one and considering the importance of the issue as it concerns one's eternal destiny -- it's hard not to get worked up about it. I apologize if at times I have been less than respectful in my disagreements. It does get frustrating at times when people state or imply that your beliefs are demonically inspired.
I think that is one of the great tragedies of true religion throughout the ages -- that people who in so many respects think so much alike are divided by doctrinal squabbles such as this one. We both believe in Jesus and His teachings -- yet we differ so drastically that to the outside, unbelieving world we come across as so hopelessly divided that they, despairing that there can ever be agreement about such things, tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater and reject all Christian teachings.
I suppose in a way that it's unavoidable. You really do think that what I believe in is dangerous heresy. I really do think that what you believe in, namely the "instant salvation" theology, is dangerous heresy. I suppose that the best either of us can do is to disagree as kindly and respectfully as possible and then go on, in Schweitzer's words, to "make our lives our arguments". In the end, I expect that God, who knows the hearts of all men, will finally reunite all sincere believers and judge each of us in accordance with the knowledge that we had and what we did with it. Scary thought, perhaps, for some of us. Have you ever wondered if you were supposed to be down feeding hungry people or visiting people in prison or clothing naked people rather than arguing about theology here? I have.
Yet here I go again, may God forgive me:
I believe If reincarnation was taught in the bible. It would of been much more obvious. and I still stand on my belief. if it were so. Then there would be no need for the plan of salvation,which was so widely taught in scripures. and if there was no need for salvation then every thing that points to it in the bible is a lie, and if it's a lie then i might as well forget Christianity. It's just my opinion .
Now, this is an interesting point. I have wondered the same thing. If reincarnation is true, why isn't it more scripturally obvious? Why indeed is the Bible so cryptic on so many issues? Why did Jesus always speak in parables?
Questions like this always get around to considering the "inerrancy" of the Bible. If you believe that the Bible is inerrant, as I suspect you do, you're in good company. There are numerous schools of Christian thought that believe exactly that. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, also believe that the Bible is inerrant. So do the Mormons. So do Pentacostalists and many Presbyterians. Yet, each of these groups have radically different outlooks as to what the Bible actually teaches. One might wish that God would have made His teachings in the Bible perfectly obvious as well as perfectly accurate. But He didn't, it seems.
Personally, I believe that the Bible is, in many ways, the "Word of God". I think that it is one of the greatest -- perhaps THE greatest -- pieces of literature in the history of mankind. I believe that it is full of wisdom and truth and that if people understood it and lived by its principles -- at least according to the best and most sincere interpretation of those principles that they are capable of -- God's will on Earth would be fulfilled and the day would indeed come when "they shall beat their swords into plowshares and no more make war upon each other". Nevertheless, I do not believe that every word from the Bible proceeded from the mouth of God. The numerous internal contradictions contained in that wonderful Book and a historical study of how what we call the Bible today came to BE the Bible dispels that notion for me, as comforting as it may be for some.
This is not the thread for an argument about biblical inerrancy so I won't go into a lot of detail about it. Still, it's impossible for me to answer your question about why reincarnation is not more obviously taught without bringing it up. I suspect that one reason for the lack of clear teaching on reincarnation in the Bible is that passages dealing with it may have been removed or altered. Check back throughout this thread for more information and ideas about that. To say that God wouldn't allow tampering with His scripture is not really a credible objection, in my opinion. Fallible men were the agencies through which what we call His Word came to be. In Revelations, there is a warning of dire consequences to all who would add or delete from His words. If such a thing were not even possible, why would this warning be necessary?
Peace to you, my friend. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:47:05 PM |
Have you ever wondered if you were supposed to be down feeding hungry people or visiting people in prison or clothing naked people rather than arguing about theology here? I have.
Yes, I think this at times myself.
It is nice to know that to people such as ourselfs with different points of veiw can communicate without getting all bent out of shape .
Peace to you | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:50:45 PM | | Since no one has apolagised to me neither will I apologise. But what is comforting to me is that the more I study the more the wrinkles in interpretation iron themselves out. Such will be the Bride when Jesus returns, His body will be w/o spot or wrinkle because His righteousness covers it not theirs. That is a one time experience and no one will tear them from His hand. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:02:20 PM | Art, appreciate your comments.
that people who in so many respects think so much alike are divided by doctrinal squabbles such as this one.
In my mind this is not a doctrinal squabble. Now I can't claimed to have read any of Cayce's work. But my question is where other than the Hindu religion would he get information about reincarnation. As far as I know the akashic records business is a modern invention and not part of Hinduism. Where I would ask did the idea of reincarnation originate?? Which religion had it as part of its doctrine?? | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:08:14 PM | | I really dont think that it was an apology. It was that we just agree to disagree. Neither one of us had a reason to apologize. We just see things differently. I was letting art know that i appreciated his mannerisim. and despite our differences we can talk about it in a civil manner . | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:18:55 PM | | I'm not one for multiple posts. but i would like to add that there are folks on this forum that like to just cut you down, and then there are those that are able to discuss things without slamming one another . I like the later. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/21/2006 8:23:53 PM | Compromise is like an inverted v. Just keeps getting further from the truth. If evolutionists watered down or incorperated other beliefs then they would have a different science. One totally different from the original.
So yes fundementalists and new age christians are not of the same groip of "christians "and for the fundamentalist to dispute the new age believer is not to contradict there own religion but to merely point out the difference between the two. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:36:01 AM | Here is a little tid bit i cut and pasted . I dont know the vadality of it. So if there are errors please correct
Davie, your information about Edgar Cayce is for the most part correct with regard to the facts concerning his history -- with this notable exception: the statement that "during his trance he would have an entity who would speak that was clearly different from himself".
This is clearly inaccurate. Cayce never claimed to be getting information from "spirit guides". The entity who spoke through Cayce was none other than Cayce's own soul and this is evident in the language that he used during his readings, thoroughly infused with Biblical quotes and perspectives just as his everyday speech was. He was not a "medium" or a "spiritualist". That he had access to information normally unavailable to him during his waking state is true enough but to suggest that some other entity possessed his body and spoke through him at these times is not accurate-- with one exception as noted below.
His explanation, given during his readings, was that his own soul went out of his body and examined such things as the "Akashic Records" from which he got his information. The only instance of other spirits speaking through him was on the very rare occasion when a voice identifying itself as the archangel Michael spoke through him with an exhortation of a Biblical nature to those present at the time. In his readings, Cayce frequently warned against the dangers of such things as "automatic writing" that could expose a soul to discarnate influences of an earthbound and not highly evolved nature. He constantly advised people to seek God within through meditation and prayer as opposed to seeking guidance from other spirits.
Concerning the interpretations of Cayce's activity by the writer of your "tidbit", there are several errors, in my opinion. Here's one that is obvious to anyone who has studied the man and his work in any detail, as I have: "a process began which, in time, had him abandoning his own Christian beliefs for the new spiritual information that his spirit was giving him." Cayce was indeed at first very tortured when he discovered that in his trance state, he had expressed support for beliefs which seemed to contradict the orthodox Christian beliefs that for so long he had held dear.
This was a man who read the Bible from cover to cover once for every year of his life, a feat which few Christians of any stripe could truthfully claim. He was a respected Sunday schoolteacher and his kindliness and Christian manner of life were noted by all. Indeed, as you report, Cayce almost abandoned his psychic work because of concern "that the Devil might be tempting me to do his work by operating through me when I was conceited enough to think God has given me special power. If ever the Devil was to play a trick on me, this would be it." This to me shows the humility of the man and his deep concern for Christian truth -- despite the inevitable objections that are sure to come from those who disagree with his vision of that truth.
In the end, Cayce overcame his doubts and reasoned that -- in answer to a childhood prayer that God would allow him to be of service to his fellow human beings, especially children -- his readings had always been used for purposes of healing, for good and not for evil; in time, he came to believe that there was no essential contradiction between the teachings of Jesus and the idea of reincarnation.
Cayce lived simply with his family and never accumulated any wealth from his talents. "Psychics" were not celebrities in those days as they are today. He suffered persecutions such as time in a jail cell when he was arrested for "fortune telling" and also considerable harassment from members of the orthodox medical profession. At the end of his life, at the height of World War II in 1945, in addition to the typical numerous requests for medical advice, Cayce was besieged with pleas for help from people seeking, among other things, information about loved ones missing in action. Unable to turn away from this deluge of suffering people -- against the advice of his own readings that for his own health, two readings per day was all he could handle -- Cayce gave up to eight readings per day; this certainly hastened his premature death in his sixties.
I can vouch for the effectiveness of the medical remedies that he suggested from personal experience. But, far more importantly, I can testify that without the sensible explanations of life, death and the afterlife offered in the Edgar Cayce readings -- which are thoroughly Christ-centred and repeatedly point to Jesus as the way, the truth and the life -- I would never have come to accept the truth of Christianity and would most certainly be an agnostic or an atheist today. "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
Don't forget that all religious pioneers, including Jesus and all Christians, were also once labelled as heretics and blasphemers. Christians who adopt a kneejerk stance of condemnation toward people such as Edgar Cayce -- whose teachings of love and goodwill mirror their own beliefs in so many ways but do not exactly coincide with them in all areas -- might do well to consider whether they are in danger of becoming modern day Pharisees, stoning the prophets and rejecting those whom God has sent on the basis of man-made laws and doctrines. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:58:02 AM | When all is said and done , to add another`s teaching to Christianity is still putting it on the same level as Mrs. White adding her books, (7th day are great teachings about church history), they didn`t add to the book,The Bible, they added more books.
Same with Joseph Smith.
Your introducing something different than Christianity as the real thing and it`s not.
Fundamentals- involving basic facts and principles | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 8:33:59 AM | What you say to be the truth, as you see it, smothers the truth of what Jesus offers to do for each individual.
I don`t know why you can`t see that.
Yours is not my Christianity and I can`t see why I have to attend your church since yours is the prevailiant religion being passed of as Christianity. So I rest my case. When things change then tell me I have to go to church, but till then I will survive quite well w/o the whitewash. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 10:49:13 AM | artandsoul ... Explaining the true nature of the soul to a zealot is an impossible task because you first have to dispel 2000 years of dogma and bureaucracy that the christian church has enveloped itself in.
I believe the 'whore of babylon' described in the revelation of john that gives rise to the antichrist is organized religion, which has in 2000 years strayed from the original message. ask any altar boy. why do you think it's almost time for the second coming of christ?
put 'the 111th pope' in your search engine. benedict is supposed to be a divisive force in the church which in turn gives rise to 'peter the roman' (the 112th and last pope according to st. malachy - search him too). peter the roman is apparently supposed to be the beast that assists the antichrist.
m. scott peck m.d. (the road less travelled, people of the lie) surmised that you will find a disproportionately high number of ppl who suffer from malignant narcissism (evil) in houses of worship because of their own pretentious nature that professes that they are more righteous than you or I, and hence more worthy of god's glory whereas we are not. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 11:01:00 AM | like this, the soul had to have had a beginning, so it was pure/sinless so what is the point of it incarnating?? ..............and to answer the question posed as Art did is to assume there was a prodigal soul...
I would like someone to address the above.
And anybody care to comment on the source of the "doctrine" of reincarnation.
Reincarnation does go against the generally accepted christian beliefs. I place reincarnation in the same "bag" as astrology....Sorry If my mind is too closed for some on here.
2weird :-
Explaining the true nature of the soul to a zealot is an impossible task because you first have to dispel 2000 years of dogma and bureaucracy that the christian church has enveloped itself in.
Please explain the true nature of the soul..I'm all ears, well in this case eyes.. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:54:43 PM | @Won Long Pong
I just want to clear up what this thread is about, which is, "Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs", it is not anything against Christianity or it's teachings, nor does it mean anyone is trying to replace Christianity with reincarnation beliefs. I just want to find out if reincarnation has any merit, or if Christianity has any hints of reincarnation in the bible.
In response to your question, "Please explain the true nature of the soul": The Well of Souls is the place, according to Christian scripture, where all human souls come from! They are all suppose to start off clean of sin and perfect in physical and mental health. This is one reason I find reincarnation's laws of karma to be plausible, for if our God was just to all, then all should start equal at birth. We all know this is not the case at all! If we in fact have only ONE life to prove or disprove our worthiness to God, then why are some people born in wealth and good health and others are born in poverty and bad health? If our God is just in his ways, we should all be born perfect and equal in every way. At least the laws of karma fit the realities of the many different circumstances people are born into! Again, this is not to say I believe Christianity is a farce, it is something I want to go along with Christianity because I like what both have to say!!  | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:32:10 PM | "Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and, contrawise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are thus ever vanishing and ever reappearing."-Origen (Church Father, AD 185-254)
Many modern Christians reject the doctrine of reincarnation because they feel it's not supported by the Bible. The teaching of transmigration, they say, is an unnecessary, later addition to biblical thought, and Revelation warns us not to add or subtract anything from the holy scriptures. It should be noted, however, that this very admonition against tampering w/ scripture has been the source of much textual criticism-for modern scholarship has revealed that many books of the Bible were compiled *after* the Book of Revelation.(Not only that, but if you read it correctly, the 'warning' only applies to the Book of Revelation itself). Revelation was not always considered the cap on Christianity's canonical literature (the Holy Bible). There are many biblical scholars that claim just that-they say that the doctrine of transmigration was a part of the "unexpurgated" Bible. Prominent authorities within the Church and scholars from many Christian denominations recognize the probablity that early Christianity favored the doctrine of rebirth over that of both resurrection or the existential finality known as heaven or hell. A picture is now coming into focus in which Christendom embraced reincarnationist teaching from its very inception. This continued to be the case until the Second Council of Constantinople (AD 553), when ecclesiastical authorities determined that it was an "inapprpriate concept" for the Christian laity.
Many early Church Fathers, such as Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Arnobius, and St. Jerome were advocates of reincarnationist thinking. St. Augustine even seriously entertained the possibility of reincarnation as an aspect of Christian reality in his work 'Confessions.'
Origen, noted in the Encyclopedia Britannica as the most proominent and prolific of all the Church Fathers-and described by St. Jerome as, "the greatest teacher of the Church after the apostles," was the most outspoken in regard to the doctrine and the pre-existence of souls. He could not restrain his impatience at the crude belief of some about the last day and resurrection of the dead. "How can material bodies be recompounded," he asked "every particle of which has passed into many other bodies (i.e. bugs,worms,etc).To which body do these molecules belong?" "So," he said scornfully, "Men fall into the lowest depths of absurdity when they believe this, and take refuge in the pious assurance that 'everything is possible w/ God..." It is certain that he (and many other early Church Fathers) believed that souls animate several bodies successsively, and that these transmigrations are regulated according to the souls' merits or demerits. Despite the fact that this doctrine was accepted, the Roman Catholic Church came to quite a different view-thus the valuable truths taught were eventually obscured. All of Christendom is still 'paying' for their (R.C.C's) rejection. Such a rejection fit neatly w/ the religio-political climate of the 6th Century, when Origen's teachings/Origenism (as reincarnation/transmigration of souls came to be called) were officially attacked by ecclesiastical authorities. Emporer Justinian (AD 527-565), for his own purposes, wanted to rally his subjects around Christianity, the popular creed of his empire. With a preponderance of reincarnationist sects, however, the emperor felt that Christians might become lax, thinking that they had more than 1 life with which to attain perection. If ppl felt they had the time afforded them by many lives to become serious about their spiritual practices, many may indeed procastinate adherence to their religion. This would debilitate Justinian's use of Christianity as a political tool. If they thought they had only 1 life and after would be subjected to an eternal heaven or hell, Justinian reasoned, then they would again become serious about the goal. And no doubt he could use that earnestness for his own political purposes. Using religion as an opiate with which to unite ppl was *not* a new idea, even in Justinian's time. But he went so far as to *manipulate* certain doctrines and beliefs to gain political power. Give them 1 life only, he said, and then give them heaven or hell. Justinian was sure this would hasten the resolve to be good "Christians" and thus good citizens, loyal to their emperor.His decree was handed down as a papal edict: "If anyone attests the fabulous pre-existence of souls and the monstrous restoration which follows from it, let him be anathema (cursed)." Since then the faithful have been *taught to believe in eternal life while ignoring immortality's spiritual sister, reincarnation. Henceforth, any Christians who spoke of it were castigated by the Church.This reached such severe proprtions that many, including leading Christian philosophers, poets etc of the time were actually burned at the stake for this belief.
Pope Vigilus, the presiding Church authority w/ emperor Justinian at the Second Council of Constantinople, is cited as being adverse to the decree brought down on Origenism (reincarnation). In fact, the pope seemed most reluctant to condemn the teachings and eventually revoked his decision against it.
*History relates that this particular ecumenical council was convened on May 5, 553, under the presidency of the patriarch of Constantinople-with Eastern and Western representatives of the Church to vote on the viability of this doctrine--but emperor Justinian actually controlled the proceedings. *Historical documents* reveal that arrangements were made to stack the votes against the Western Contingent, most of whom were supporters of transmigration teachings. Of the 165 bishops who signed the decrees against it at the council's final meeting on June 2, not more than 6 could have been from the Western side. Pope Vigilus, notin g the unfair slant and other irregularities, refused to attend on the day the final decisions were made.
Despite the official condemnation, reincarnationist view has been supported by educated Christians both before and after this. Shelves of books have been written describing the inadequacies of Justinian's "perspective", all appealing to scripture and history as well as to logic and common sense.
^^Exerpts from the book, 'The Reincarnation Controversy-Uncovering the Truth in the World Religions,' by Steven Rosen.
btw...Western philosophy was originally pro-reincarnationist.It was believed in and advocated by Socrates, Plato, Pythagorus etc, etc.
A *few recent thinkers who accepted the doctrine as true include Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Henry Ford, Tom Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Walt Whitman and Ralph Waldo Emerson, among many others.
Whew!!! Long post. *sighs in relief*... "It is finished."
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 2:01:18 PM | won long pong (what's a 'pong' by the way?) in answer to your question ...
... the true nature of the soul is quite simply ... eternal. We are spawned from the creator who is not in the nature of harming one of the whole. we all seek conjunction with the great spiritual oneness once we've sufficiently spiritually evolved. I know that I am no where near the indigo status of souls bc I am still intolerant of ignorance and stupidity. and so I shall remain a dirty snowball, but at least I know where I came from.
and nicely put Rhiannon. impressive resourcing.
an open mind is a beautiful thing. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:51:36 PM | an open mind is a beautiful thing
agreed, but an open, discerning mind is even better.. Thanks for the replies...processing...more later..
won long pong (what's a 'pong' by the way?)
pong, slang for stink. smell. just think of a very long fart... | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 4:50:59 PM | hahahahahahahahahahaha!!! i like that won.
I find curious this 'well of souls' notion. i kind of interpret "created in his own image" to mean in our spiritual forms, a chip off the old block. Only vain or simple human beings would think that we could attach semblance of physical appearance to god successfully (who is not and never has been part of the physical world), therefore, in order to look like god we would have to be a spirit.
The logic behind 'because we look as we do - god must look like us' in the physical world falls flat.
"in his own image" - you can take it literally or allegorically, you still come to the same conclusion. god has no physical form. how do we know what god truly looks like? he's definitely not the davinci version with the long white hair and beard with the flowing robes. What exactly is his image? How do you describe a spirit when you dont exist in the spirit world? so this would seem to mean how we appear in our spiritual form.
so our little piece of the great spiritual oneness sets off on its mission of balancing the emotions of the body with the compassion of the soul in order to become a better person, a better soul. progressively live to the teachings of moses, abraham zoroaster, mohommed and christ for our era (there is evidence of countless 'old souls' throughout history from a number of faiths (ghandi and such). freedom of will explains how we get to learn it all on our own and experience what it is like to be part of a universal consciousness that includes all faiths.
our soul, the little piece of god we all have in us is the little voice that we all hear when we do something that we know isnt nice or is vindictive in nature and spawned from hate and fear and all the negative emotions is what always brings us back. over time it becomes easier to do the right thing. not to lie, not to cheat, to respect that there is nothing of this earth that is greater than god. but i ramble. my most humble apologies. it's the dirty snowball coming out in me. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 5:11:50 PM | " ... all the negative emotions is what always brings us back. over time it becomes easier to do the right thing. not to lie, not to cheat, to respect that there is nothing of this earth that is greater than god. but i ramble. my most humble apologies. it's the dirty snowball coming out in me."
What puzzles me is that if there are these souls that keep coming back to improve why isn't the world improving with these improved souls? Is this a really dumb question?
Side note 2weird: As you are made in Gods image .... stop calling yourself a dirty snowball or I will throw one at you :) | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/22/2006 10:46:43 PM | Still in processing mode here.. I did a google on the "well of souls" that a poster claimed was a biblical thing. I would like a book, verse, chapter on that as that is news to me.
Well of Souls
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Well of Souls can mean several things:
* The Well of Souls (??? ??????, Bir el- Arweh) is a subterranean chamber beneath the Dome of the Rock in the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The chamber located beneath the rock is known to Jews as Eben Shetiyyah and to Muslims as Sakhrah. Members of these faiths believe it to be the place where God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son: Isaac in the Judeo-Christian tradition, and Ishmael in the Muslim tradition.
A less frequently cited tradition holds that the cave is located atop the Abyss of Chaos and it is the Rivers of Paradise which can be heard below.
* The film Raiders of the Lost Ark depicted the Well of Souls as the hiding place of the Ark of the Covenant, but placed it as a lost chamber in the lost city of Tanis in Egypt (filmed in Tunisia) instead of a cave in the Temple Mount. This loosely agrees with legends that the Ark of the Covenant and other Temple artifacts were hidden somewhere beneath the Temple Mount at the time of the destruction of the first temple.
* Also known as the "guff", it as a place in Judeao-Christian mythology in which the souls of those-yet-to-be-born are stored, as portrayed in the movie The Seventh Sign.
* The online game Well of Souls by Dan Samuel and the "Well of Souls" gaming community,
* The supercomputer called The Well of Souls in The Well World science fiction book series by Jack L. Chalker.
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/23/2006 12:55:19 AM | I see we are having a pretty reasonable discussion here lately. That's nice, we must all be improving our karma -- those of us who believe in it at least. As Davie said, it's good to see that we can all disagree, even as drastically as we do, and still treat each other with a little Christian -- or Buddhist -- charity and respect.
There have been a few questions raised about reincarnation that prompt me to point out that -- just as within Christendom, there are many differing doctrines held by various denominations and movements -- there are many differing versions of reincarnationist theory. Just as many of you who are evangelicals would differ rather severely with, for instance, churches of a more "liberal" persuasion, I would distance myself from some versions of reincarnation.
Some say, for instance, that we come back as dogs, cats, worms or even plants. I don't believe that. There are also the "Hollywood" versions of reincarnation which are -- for the most part -- a complete joke. Also, many of the people who become interested in reincarnation are little more than gullible "new age" flakes. So called "psychics" make a fortune from these people, most of whom are walking around telling everyone that in a previous life they were Alexander the Great or Cleopatra. Common sense tells us that far more of us have spent most if not all of our lives as farmers, carpenters, and other "ordinary persons" than as famous personages. Most of these people are as credible as the guy in the nuthouse who thinks he is Napoleon.
Re "new age" theories, etc: I find the whole "movement" -- if one can even properly call it such -- interesting and at times fascinating but I am highly skeptical to say the least about most of it. I do think there are some genuine articles among all the "new age" ideas and individuals out there but my guess is that ninety per cent of it is based on either outright fraud or sheer delusion. My evangelical Christian friends, have you ever been embarassed when some crackpot "Christian" -- who lives way "out there" where the buses dont run -- speaks up with some half baked notion of Christian beliefs or acts like a moron in public and makes your faith look foolish to non believers? If so, you know how I feel when someone comes up with some half baked version of reincarnationist theory and proposes to shoot down the whole idea on that basis. Please don't assume that reincarnationist beliefs are necessarily associated with half baked ideas from various other religions, cults and lunatic fringe groups. In turn, we won't assume that evangelical Christians, Mormons and Moonies all belong to the same school of thought. | |
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