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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/24/2006 12:23:22 AM | I was under the impression that, like ore purified by fire, that evil is consumed by that lake of fire, leaving behind the goodness of each soul behind, to be redeemed by God.
Since God is good, and He creates all souls, wouldn't they all return to Him? | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/24/2006 1:10:41 AM |
I was under the impression that, like ore purified by fire, that evil is consumed by that lake of fire, leaving behind the goodness of each soul behind, to be redeemed by God.
Since God is good, and He creates all souls, wouldn't they all return to Him?
Sage ... this is a very brief but pithy post. Thank you. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/24/2006 9:05:11 AM | from sage ...
"Since God is good, and He creates all souls, wouldn't they all return to Him?"
beautiful! now I know why I appreciate the buddhist faith so much. conjunction with the great spiritual oneness, the universal consciousness if you will, is what it's all about, isn't it? to return to that place from whence we came. god could no easier hurt us as he could cut off a piece of himself/herself/itself. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 1/25/2006 2:50:56 PM | Wow, I just read the entire thread and boy is my soul tired!
First, I would like to state that reincarnation is a belief that has been around for a long time and has spanned many religions. Including the Hindu and Buddist religions that originated in the same home-town of Judeo-Christian religion. That home-town being of India the birthplace of modern religions. It seems that the people of this area were also unsure of this as the differing religions spread in opposite directions of the globe. East of India are the resurectionists and monothism to the West. Since the USA is a "New World" the religions of Nature have been discarded to make room for the Euro-Christians that have taken over. (Ironically, these tendencies to respect nature are comming through in modern times and oftentimes contradict the intentions of the conservatives.) This does lead to a New Aged struggle with the Orthodox that bangs of the impression that God does not want World Peace. Well, surprisingly so, (sorry RhiannonXX7) it is true that God does not want world peace. Through world peace Satan will rise. It is through the complacency and pride of man that we created world peace and a global society that God will be angered. Remember the Towel of Babel? This leads us to a contradiction of a "Just God." As a "Just God" would want peace, harmony and unity on Earth. But God does the opposite to keep us divided. Even Job who followed God to the T was subjected to the harshness of Satan under the guise of a bet. Is this truely the work of a "Just God"? Would a just God feel he could "replace" the seven children and wife of a man and be even with him for allowing Satan to take the family he had to begin with? Would a "Just God" give man the Ten Commandments which clearly state "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and then tell man that he now has to go to war to kill the people that are living on the land that is promised to him? What God is telling us is that he is all powerful and the in order to truely respect him and follow him we MUST fear him. Italian was right on that one.
However, we can see deeper into the contradiction of the Bible with such examples of the Ten Commandments verses the rest of Exodus, John the Baptist reincarnated verses only one life to get it right, to show the true complexity of the human life. The problem that no body that belongs to any church wants to admit is that the Bible was ultimately written by man as he was enlightend by God. No matter how enlighted a man is, he is failible. He will not remember every detail and has a tendancy to exaggerate when a story starts to lull. Furthermore, the Bible was under the complete control of churches for many years. Under this control it had been copied by hand by many people. This left much room for human error. Besides we all know that churches are not always right. (The world is flat, the sun revolves around earth, don't decipher the Heiroglyphs as they may unlock a contradiction to the Bible, priests should not marry...) I think the best entry in this entire thread was the simple lone entry by Brinko: "Follow Christ as a teacher not the church as a cult." The simplicity of this statement holds it's own genius.
I also agree with his next line, "I figure if you don't figure it out this time, guess what...you are coming back!" I combine this with my belief to combine theories (the devine gift God gave all of us) and conclude that reincarnation must be. For those of you that do not believe in reincarnation, guess what...this is your last chance to get it right. For those of us that do, we will be coming back to do it all over again. I feel it works like this: God tells the souls of Heaven, "Hey, I need a few volunteers to go to earth to help out with a few things." We souls say, "Sure I will go as I do not want to be in disfavor with the all-mighty. After-all just how exciting can heaven be with all that love, joy, and peace" So we go to earth to help God. But there is a catch, (as I said earlier about the "Just God") we have to stay for several life-times and each time learn more about how to make it back. We have to learn about the differing religions along the way, we have to learn how to satisfy our thirsts to be human and then disconnect with them to prepare our souls for re-entry. With this in mind I am able to assess that each believer of differing religions is possibly correct. Each religion has their own after-life. The reincarnationists will be reincarnated according to kharma and the monotheists are progressing to their one true God. So if you are a hard-lined One Shot type of person then this is your last chance to get in and your soul will truely be judged after this life.
But finally the question arises of "New Souls" to fill all the bodies. Are these really new souls created by God or are we just spinning in and out of earth? Frankly, I feel this is where the soul-mate comes into play. In order to make enough souls to fill the body count our souls are divided to fill several bodies. (After-all this is only a mortal life we are talking about.) When we feel a connection with someone it is our soul telling us that we belong together as one.
Or maybe, just maybe we all die and become worm-food. The truth is we do not know and we need to follow our own instincts that will lead the way.
Well, I managed to pine on longer than ART. 
I find it amusing that man, who cannot even create a simple worm, has created so many Gods. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/22/2006 2:09:48 AM | Well, now I'm "dumb" along with numerous other intuitive thinkers who have really figured it out. Considering where that allegation stems from I'll just be grateful I'm "dumb". Gotta love dem christian zealots, so righteous, so holier than thou, isn't there some exorcism you should be participating in? I take it you missed that episode of South Park where St. Peter informed everyone at the pearly gates that only Mormons got to go to heaven. Pragmatic christians are ridiculous.
"Follow Christ as a teacher not the church as a cult." Beautiful! Too bad more christians weren't more christian.
Great post Luck-N-Fate. You'd appreciate "Only Love is Real" by Brian L. Weiss M.D. Your post echoes his sentiments. Alan Watts might have appeal to you as well.
Please forgive the following lengthy cut and paste. It might have relevance for the enlightened.
From http://www.wrightworld.net/interpretations.htm#Reincarnation
Reincarnation
Many Christians don't believe in reincarnation, or the rebirth of the soul into successive human existences. Most believe that when a person dies, they immediately go to heaven or hell. However, the Bible does not support this concept of an immediate passage to heaven or hell after death, but that the dead sleep until judgement day, and then rise again in physical form in the final resurrection as follows:
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning (them which are asleep), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which (sleep in Jesus) will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the (dead in Christ) shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Thessalonians 4: 13-17
Thessalonians tells us that death is sleep, and also points out that many would be in the sleep of death at the time of the end, and will awaken with the coming of the Lord. Now as to this sleep, could it not be followed by forgetfulness? After each lifetime we are born again, never remembering our previous existences until the day of the final judgement, when all is then revealed. There are Christians who believe in this concept of reincarnation, and it does not detract from their belief in God, or Jesus Christ. It is simply a different way of regarding the after death process, as opposed to that which is popularly accepted. It doesn't change the basic Christian concept of the resurrection, or the arrival of the Kingdom of God, or of a final heaven or hell. I must also point out some Biblical chapters and verse that would tend to support these beliefs as follows:
Jesus said in John 3: 3, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." In other words, because the arrival of the Kingdom of God is a literal event that occurs at the end of the world, you must be born again, or physically reincarnated at that future time in order to see the arrival of the Kingdom of God. In John 3: 5, Jesus continues, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That is to say you must be born of water, or physically born, and of the spirit, or reincarnated, to enter into the Kingdom of God. Jesus has thus confirmed the process of birth and death, and a process of soul transmigration through the ages until the end of time.
In Genesis the process of birth and death is symbolized as follows: "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children." = birth, "And unto the dust shalt thou return." = death - Genesis 3: 16 & 19. This presupposes that before the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden mankind did not know death. Therefore it is logical to conclude that when Adam and Eve partook of the knowledge of good and evil, they degenerated from immortal to mortal beings, and entered the realm of birth and death and reincarnation. The Book of Enoch supports this contention.
Along with the process of birth and death came a condition of amnesia, so that all knowledge of the previous condition, or of successive lifetimes were forgotten. After a few generations all traces of the original condition of immortality were totally lost, and mankind has existed in this present state of mortality ever since. This existence in the realm of birth and death was not to be everlasting however, and God in his infinite mercy put a time limit under which mankind would undergo this curse in the realm of mortality. That time period is now nearly at end and will terminate with the arrival of the Kingdom of God. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/22/2006 2:54:33 AM | here's another compelling link which supports that christianity and reincarnation are not incongruent. It's got some substance so I'm not expecting the pragmatists to read it.
http://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation3.html
enjoy | |
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teajey
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Joined: 1/1/2006
Msg: 208 | |
| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/23/2006 11:32:39 PM | | This has been interesting. To my understanding, the whole idea behind Christianity is that God became himself incarnate to bear the sins of mankind through his atoning sacrifice on the cross. Now either we buy into it or we don't, nobody is forcing anyone to believe anything. The point is however that either the sins of man were atoned for at the cross OR they are atoned through successive incarnations. If Christ did the atoning, reincarnation, in a karmic sense at least, would be out of a job. If I did believe in reincarnation, I certainly couldn't see myself clinging to the shell of a Christianity emptied of it's power since, After all, nice moral teachings are readily available within other, less intrusive religious systems. But hey, that's just me. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/25/2006 9:37:52 AM | Thre have been a few verses in the Bible were people of the "reincarnation" beliefe point to state that people believed in that in Biblical times.
When people were wondering who Jesus is, like for example , some thought He was the Prophet Elijah or Jeremiah or John the Baptist or one of the prophets , some people saw that as some evidence that the it was believed in that time, but by the 5th century the Church got rid of those believes sayingt they are hereises.
I believe the Bible is clear about this issue. It states what it has to say and it does so clearly, it is hard to go against that. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/26/2006 4:04:08 AM | Good post, LucknFate. but to regress...
on this topic Miss Music may have a point, in that definition is important.but not really, because in the forum no matter how many times a thing is proved, the next post comes along totally ignoring the proof. ( and any defintitions that have been agreed upon)
anyway, Elijah die not die. he was taken up in a chariot.
whether you want to classify him as a reincarnate soul or one put on ice for a while ( ok, suspended animation) could be open for interpretation. For the purposes of this thread, it would seem that he was just MIA for a period.
So that should take Elijah out of the argument ..except for one detail...
In the bible it says only one person...but it does also show two people....went up like that ..John and Elijah...making John and Elijah the same soul...proving reincanation is a biblical truth....and also showing that John's incarnation of this soul did it one more time....because John, he was chariot lifted and so did not die....this proves multiple reincarnations for this one particular entity known as Elijah and John the Baptist are shown in the bible.
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/26/2006 5:00:24 AM | John 9:1-2
"As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life
I would seem to show where the disciples were posing a question regarding law, not medicine.They were asking whether the man was blind because of the sins of the father. Not for an explanation of blindness, but for explanation of inherited guilt or punishment. | |
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teajey
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Joined: 1/1/2006
Msg: 214 | |
| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/26/2006 9:49:34 AM | | Hi Mdc. Just a theory about the thread's oft quoted John 9:1-2.... When the disciples asked the question, they may have knew very well what the implications of it were. The point is that it could have been a baiting question designed to get Jesus to just come out and spill the beans about whether reincarnation was true or not. After all, as someone has already mentioned, the scenario played itself out within a time where reincarnation was a popular idea and the disciples were understandably curious. We may not like the answer Jesus gave, but it certainly didn't seem to verify the truth of reincarnation. If there is any truth to my first post, the whole argument is moot anyway. Reincarnation, for all I know, may be true but it is hard to see how it could fit into Christianity since what it is desighed to do has already been done. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 2/28/2006 12:09:06 AM | Jesus responded:
9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. -- http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvjoh9.htm
Thus Jesus stepped around the reincarnation question.
In saying that the works of God be made manifest in the blind man, Jesus refered to the here and now.
As a Buddhist, I respect Jesus' response. Speculation about reincarnation can go on until the cows come home. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 6/10/2007 9:28:37 PM | In respose to "me thinks" comment as follows:
Quote: Reincarnation is just another lie of the Devil, just like Shirley McLaine wrote some New Age books (haw) and Tom Cruise believes in bunk. You are just dumb if you believe in Satan's lies. unquote.
Me thinketh that you have not read the bible. I have never met a person in "this lifetime" (intentional use of the term) who acknowledges or lives by ALL the rules laid out in the bible, such as one of relevance here that you seemed to have missed. It goes like this: Judge not, lest you be judged.
Oops. Miss that one did ya'? | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 6/10/2007 9:36:14 PM | I have a saying: Better stop treating the world around you with so much disrespect, because God's got his finger on the delete button, and he's getting a twitch.
I often wonder if there are indeed "limits' to how offensive one can be without blowing their chance at a trip to the promised land. Seems to me this adds up to a "no consequences" view of life while here. A concept abused by many. | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 6/11/2007 6:26:46 PM | Thinking Psalm 90 supports reincarnation....
verse 3... Thou dost turn man back into dust, And dost say, "Return, O children of men".
Job 1, 20-21....Then Job arose and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground and worshipped. And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked I shall return thither!".
Obadiah 1: 15..."As thou has done, it shall be done unto thee; thy reward shall return unto thine own head".
Then of course Revelations 3:12.
And Malachi 4:5 and then fast forward to Matthew 16:13, and continued in Chapter 17.
And John 9: 1-3.
Just tons of stuff to support reincarnation... if one has the eyes to see.
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 6/13/2007 2:16:44 AM | Most on the planet are aware of reincarnation. It's the western man made religion corporations that preach against it, because it's bad for business and they hate that.
If some knew that they did not have to join a church to connect to the
god energy (higher powers) or that this is planet is a schoolhouse where we come to learn to be more human(e) to each other, and I believe all living things, and then evolve to even higher levels of learning, and like our school system where you do not pass through all the levels (grades) without going back year after year, and when the marks are not good enough to pass, we can repeat the year, if some knew that, they would realise that learning here and taking life tests (you can't pass the test unless you take the test) is not a one shot deal, and the religion/church cannot give them a free pass to the top floor simply because they become a member, apologise for their alleged or not sins and pay their monetary dues. Let's call it the "pay as you play stay outta hell, with a guaranteed box seat in heaven insurance plan". How un- divine it would be if just for example, Al Capone and Ghandi (he would know better than to buy into this fraudulant insurance, it's merely a scenario) were customers of the same corporate religion or church. Now Ghandi works hard all his life unselfishly trying to make this a better planet for mankind, a dangerous task at the least, look what happened to Christ, Martin Luther King, etc... Now Ghandi has nothing to confess or apologise for (not sure the church would not want to un-convince him of that though),
But Al Capone's a different story, but according I think, to church mythology , join and stay a member of this organization, repent, say you're sorry, try not to do it again but do come back because we can help, and thse guys both end up in the same place when they leave here, walking alonside God at the top level. I seem to be getting off topic so here goes. I've studied metaphysics and universal law for a lot of years now so know there is NO proof that reincarnation does not exist, but just the opposite, there are thousands upon thousands of documented pieces of evidence that plainly show this. You just have to look into the right sources to access this information, but you will not get any of it from a corporate church, or the bible as well so it seems, as that's been edited more times than the evidence at the O. J Simpson trial for the sake of corporate religion(business). If western religion had been saying all along that, yes we do reincarnate, we come back to continue our education at this level, this probably would not be one of the topics discussed here, well not in the way we are anyway. More than likely we would be talking about the logic of it, the most efficient way to deal with our personal issues this time around in order to best set ourselves up for our next semesters here, not unlike putting careful thought into college and university planning. Edgar Cayce spent years diagnosing people and giving them medical advice, not advice from himself , but advice obtained by him from the other side as he was a medium or a recepticle for it. He did not have to be in the presence of the person needing the advice to obtain it, frequently people seeking the advice were thousands of miles away, it didn't matter. He saved and improved thousands of lives doing this with no medical training whatsoever, he didn't even complete high school and took no credit for any of it. His papers are still being used in hospitals today i've been told.
Some in western medicine charged him with being a fake and a fraud, but he won the case in court and went on to open I believe a non profit hospital which did not succeed in the end. He then went on and started doing life readings, which was very difficult for him at first because life readings were of peoples past lives here. He had not only taught Sunday school, but read the bible as many times as the years he lived, and saw no mention of reincarnation in it, but his church clearly stated reincarnation did not exist. Because of this he seriously considered getting out of the "mystic/medium" business as he had trouble believing that we did reincarnate after the church had so efficiently drilled into his head for so many years that we did not. When he finally did accept it, he changed the present lives of many by accessing their "akashic records" solving problems caused now by a traumatic experience from a past life by bringing them to light and confronting them. Present day therapists use a similar technique in where they regress someone with traumatic events that happened in early childhood that they cannot remember. By doing this they can confront and release the invisible up until now baggage that would be causing emotional problems. Now back to "akashic records". We each have one, it's a personal record of all time, of every life spent here or anywhere, of everything we've ever done, intentionally or not, intent is very important. Think about it, all our actions and thoughts through all of time, good, bad, or we may think indifferent carved in stone, a personal report card of everything we have ever done or will, on record forever.  | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 7/1/2007 1:57:31 PM |
He had not only taught Sunday school, but read the bible as many times as the years he lived, and saw no mention of reincarnation in it,
It IS in the bible, although it is written in such a fashion that it could be easily missed. The apostles were sitting around discussing with Christ how it was possible for him to be the messiah when Elijah was supposed to come first and show the way. In the book of Matthew, it says: "Elijah came and ye knew him not and ye worked your ways on him, and they understood that he spake of John the Baptist." | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 7/1/2007 3:55:10 PM |
Reincarnation is just another lie of the Devil, just like Shirley McLaine wrote some New Age books (haw) and Tom Cruise believes in bunk. You are just dumb if you believe Satan's lies
wow...
Well my response to the question in the thread title is... who cares?? And the above quote is a perfect example of why I don't ;) | |
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| Does reincarnation go against all Christian biblical beliefs?
Posted: 7/7/2007 9:45:04 AM | In responce to "scintillating angel" ^^^ - It IS in the bible, but could easily be missed-
Is it possible in their re-editing (the church) they also missed it.
Either way, western religion will admit and preach that a chosen few do go and come back again, but for all others, we do not. They have been brainwashing their customers for centuries now with great effect. Fortunately for the thousands he helped, Edgar Cayce was able to de-programme, at least this part he was taught to believe. For a corporate church to back-peddle on this subject (and they won't for the same reason they started it), it would have devastating consequences on their business, like Ford, or Chevy saying, we've been lying to you, Honda really make the better car. Any being/spirit who comes here in a physical body, no matter how highly evolved they are or not (our purpose of coming here is to evolve), will do it in the same manner (except for angels, who sometimes have to be in the physical, for a very brief time in extreme cases, but that's very different, and does not relate to this forum). Christ arrived here the same way we did, and if necessary, can come back in the same way. Also, all spirit form whether they've occupied a physical body here or not (although there are temporary exceptions), can visit this plain at will, but that also has nothing to do with reincarnation.
Just more of what I believe to be, my true cents worth. | |
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