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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:30:08 PM | I think it is perfectly OK if you haven't been married .... BUT!! .. here's the 'but' from me ... I am definitely leery if you have never been in a long term relationship where you have shared a part of your life with someone at this point. I get the same .. people might wonder why I have never been married, but I was in a twelve year awesome common law relationship in my 20's - early 30's so I may as well have been married. But you know, if I meet men who are in their mid thirties and who have never even had a long term relationship, I really do have a lot of questions and really have to wonder how anyone at that age could never have shared at least a few years of their life with someone by that point.
IMHO, only.  | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:38:19 PM | I was in a twelve year awesome common law relationship in my 20's - early 30's so I may as well have been married. I've got to ask: if it was "awesome" why are you no longer with that person?
Perhaps someone who's never had a serious "long-term" relationship has been patiently waiting to find a person for one permenant relationship. Rather than settling for a temporary relationship while in their 20s. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:21:41 PM | ^^ Good question, but it really isn't relevant to this particular thread, nor your business, and I don't feel the need to directly respond to something not relevant. The difference between you and I clearly lies in the fact that I can wholeheartedly percieve someone who was in my life for 12 years as someone who gave me the best years of my life because we were best friends first. Relationships end for many reasons but it doesn't mean that what 'was' was not one of the best things in our lives. There ARE instances where both sexes would have nothing but positive things to say about their former relationships .. but there is a wide variance of reasons why they end and sometimes the personal nature is not something that is everyone's business.
Who settled for a temporary relationship in their 20's, may I ask? For the most part, people do not enter relationships with the intent of it being 'temporary' ? (Some do .. and that is their personal choice). That is your implied message directed to me and it will be interesting to hear your educated response as you, as a total stranger, are clearly stating that my personal 12 year relationship was settled into as 'temporary'.
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:47:12 PM |
For the most part, people do not enter relationships with the intent of it being 'temporary' ? Good point.
However,
perhaps one person enters into a relationship, hoping it will become permanent, only to later discover that it turns out to be temporary.
While another person patiently waits, and doesn't enter into a relationship until he/she is much more certain that it is a relationship that will be permenant.
Is that second person neccesarilly flawed?
Or, is it possible that person may be a little wiser, and a little more cautious about entering into relationships?
Perhaps that person, who is more cautious about entering into a relationship, is much more likely to take a relationship seriously, compared to the persoon who is quick to jump into a relationship for the sake of having one.
Back in your prior post, you initially stated:
if I meet men who are in their mid thirties and who have never even had a long term relationship, I really do have a lot of questions and really have to wonder how anyone at that age could never have shared at least a few years of their life with someone by that point. I will admit that it is legimate, if meeting someone like that, to wonder about the person.
Perhaps the person is "flawed" in some ways?
But I don't think anyone should immediately make that assumption. There could be any number of reasons, (or combination of reasons) why the person hasn't had a significant relationship.
-perhaps they spend a significant part of their 20s battling a serious illness
-perhaps they spend a significant amount of time working at a career which took them away from home often, and didn't allow for them to have a relationship
-perhaps the person spent a significant a amount of time getting his/her education and establishing a career
-maybe the person was more concerned with building financial stability first, before looking for a relationship, or before concieving children
Perhaps your relationship existed on good terms, and ended on good terms. But many of the other people on here have had relationships which didn't end on such good terms. ...and many of those relationships involved children.
I've got to admit that in some ways I regret the fact that I haven't yet found a serious relationship.
However,
I certainly don't regret that I haven't dealt with the drama of divorce or failed relationships; or dragging innocent children through the drama of a parent's seperation, or bitter cusody battle; or bringing children into the world before I was financially able to support them. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 3:06:08 PM | You know pals, even though I totally agree with the idea of getting married when you really want or feel like, loneliness is really raw being over 30.
I think life has taught me a couple of things; I've always been against following society's rules and regulations, but I'd most definetely advice my kids (if I ever have some!) to marry before 30. Sometimes it's quite difficult to find your soul mate after reaching the 30s. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/22/2008 11:03:54 PM | ferruginous, as you have stated: one may enter into a relationship, hoping it will become permanent, only to later discover that it turns out to be temporary.
While another person patiently waits, and doesn't enter into a relationship until he/she is much more certain that it is a relationship that will be permenant.
We can enter, hope, later discover the unknown, wait, don't enter, and think we are certain .. when, in all actuality, there is no guarantee on any relationship. And, ferringinous, no particular person is flawed, as you have stated: we are all 'flawed' in some way.
We don't have a crystal ball when it comes to relationships, but being overly analytical will tend to complicate things too much. Just get enough facts that enable you to make an informed decision, and go with it. Enough on this subject before I get off topic. !! | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/23/2008 6:04:09 AM | | I tend to think they are; there is an 'imaginary measuring stick' that comes out, and it seems that when a guy over 30 hasn't been married or in a long term relationship...they just don't 'measure up' on some superficial comparison level. Then, they quietly run to the hills when they learn this info. Just my experience on this topic. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:35:55 AM | | I feel that women judge me sometimes because of that. They think I am just out to have a good time. I was in a 6 year relationship, I was engaged, the wedding date was 4 months away and it blew up (she was unfaithful and decided she didn't want to commit to me). I'm all about being faithful and being with one person. Being in my 30's, I find it very difficult to meet a woman that is serious about a relationship because they are just used to being used and dumped by typical "boys". | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:15:47 AM | I definitely do get suspicious if a guy has never been married (or were married for 5 mins and haven't had a relationship since), doesn't have kids and hasn't been in a long term relationship when they are pushin 40.
The first question that comes to mind is what have they been doing all this time? Spankin it at home?  Playing the field?  What? What in the world changed them and by what magic am I now going to be their dreamgirl?  What makes me different from any other woman that is currently in or left their life? How many good women did they pass up, play games with, not notice because they were only into their own selfish desires or focused on other things and couldn't see that true happiness is shared?
Where has their focus been? Have they been trying and just been unlucky and now by some fortune of chance they have found ME...their dream girl? Dare I dream? 
It's sort of like someone who never set goals, bumbled through high school, picked up a low level job that paid enough so that he could go play/hang out with his friends, never developed any skill sets suddenly waking up one day and going... yeah, I've been working for several years now. Due to my 20+ years working as a moderately performing basket weaver, I should be CEO of an international technology company.
Umm..yeah there are going to be significant gaps in what he's got and what is required to the job let alone do it well. In a situation that requires wisdom rooted in relevant experience, because there isn't a lot of time for learning the basics on the job, this guy is probably not going to do a whole lot other than **** things up. Maybe he could pull it off but not likely.
Relationships are wonderful and by no means simple. The more interpersonal skills and experience you've had in a relationship the more likely you are going to be able to make one work. Just like many things practice makes perfect and if they have not been practicing then I'm going to suspect that they aren't very adept at it.
As we get older there is less time available for figuring things out and mistakes are way more costly. When I was 20 years old, 5 or 10 years in a relationship that did not work out would be sad yes, but I would still be young enough and feisty enough to go back out there and try to find one that would work. I'm practical. At this point in my life I frankly can't be****n around 5-10 years with some selfish almost 40 year old that is set in his selfish ways. The likelihood of him getting his shit together seems pretty low to me. Risk wise he's a poor bet, and I'm aware of my shelf life even if he is not.
But I digress...
Really the question is...What do you bring to the table in terms of relationship skills and can you hang? Do you even want to hang? Do you want a long term relationship? Your actions up to this point say other wise.
What do you know about nurturing a committed human relationship of any kind be it husband/wife, father/daughter, father/son? (No. Potted plants and puppies don't count.)Do you understand and know truly...deeply...the value of partnership and the richness that comes from a shared existence and happiness? Will you stick around when things are tough or will you bail early on because being single seems so much easier and it is what you know. It can seem like a comfortable alternative when things are difficult in a relationship. People cling to what they know.
You can't miss or truly crave something you've never had. Do they REALLY want a long term relationship after being single so long. They may enjoy all the superficial niceties you find "hanging out" together, hooking up or being in a short term relationship but when the real work begins 2-5 years into the relationship will they stick around or will they bail. There is value in working through difficulties in a relationship and if they've never done that or never experienced the value of that it is unlikely when they are pushing 40 that they will realize that it is worth it. It's that old dog with the new tricks thing...kinda hard. | |
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bsg789
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Joined: 12/4/2007
Msg: 339 | |
| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:34:54 AM | | It would depend on the reasons why he wasn't married by age 30. Some men simply preferred to remain single. Some men were busy with school or work. Some men simply had bad luck and met a bunch of women that they weren't compatible with. Some men might have been shy around women when they were younger. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 12:28:06 PM | The first question that comes to mind is what have they been doing all this time? Spankin it at home? Playing the field? What? You do realise that some people may have questions come to their mind when they learn that a woman is divorced with kids.
What has she been doing, and why is she divorced?
-Was she niave enough to just quickly jump into a marriage that wouldn't work?
-Why did her marriage end? Was it because she was a b1tch who her husband couldn't live with? Did it end due to her infedelity?
-Did she think of her children's well-being before concieving children who would later grow up in a broken home?
I don't mean to be a rude judgemental pr1ck. But if someone, who doesn't know me, is going to make negative assumptions about me, based only on the fact that I'm still single, then I'm quite prepared to point out negative assumptions that others may make of her.
Just like many things practice makes perfect and if they have not been practicing then I'm going to suspect that they aren't very adept at it. Are you assuming that everyone is so retarded, and so incapable of interacting with other people that they must have "practice" relationships, which are meant to fail, so they can learn from them???
I'd like to think that many people are capable of working to make their 1st real relationship work. Whether they find that relationship in their 20s, or 30s, or older.
Perhaps the true misfit is not the person still waiting for their first relationship?
Perhaps it's the bimbo who has to keep learning from her failed relationships?
What do you know about nurturing a committed human relationship of any kind be it husband/wife, father/daughter, father/son? (No. Potted plants and puppies don't count.)Do you understand and know truly...deeply...the value of partnership and the richness that comes from a shared existence and happiness? Will you stick around when things are tough or will you bail early on because being single seems so much easier and it is what you know. It can seem like a comfortable alternative when things are difficult in a relationship. Why would a divorced person say this?
-Did the divorced person not fail at their attempt at a commited relationship?
-The divorced person is not currently experiencing any of the "richness" that comes from a shared existence. Obviously their own experience with "shared existence" wasn't good enough for them to remain in.
-The divorced person obviously didn't "stick around when things got tough", but rather bailed early on because it would be easy single.
I don't have any stats, but I think it would be interesting to see who is more successful at finding permenant relationships?
The person who waited patiently until they found the right relationship?
or
-The person who's had numerous brief marriages, or brief serious relationships, (which they have the nerve to refer to as "long term relationships") while still in their 20s?
Do they REALLY want a long term relationship after being single so long. Yes.
I just don't want, or need, any brief 2-5 year relationships in the meantime, which produce children who will later grow up in broken homes.
I don't really want to bash anyone for being divorced, or having failed relationships but, I want to point out:
If someone is very happy in a successful relationship, I'd be willing to understand if they criticised me for being long-time single.
However, I will not accept similar criticisms from a divorced person.
Yet, oddly, I've never heard such a criticism directed at me by a happilly married person. But for some reason, I'll occassionally read such criticisms in these forums posted by divorced people.
As far as I'm concerned: those critical divorced people can kiss my ass. They're no more successful at relationships than a single guy like me. In fact, they've proven that they may be less successful. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 3:51:42 PM | | There is no right or wrong age to get married. Perhaps you didnt jump into to it like alot of others in their 20's or even 30's and come 5 years later to regret they did...Its better to know its right than to force it to happen. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:16:05 PM | I'm not real sure what the difference is....
Marry for the first time after 30.....
or Marry several times before 30.....
It seems to me that both options are quite popular.
I'm 37 and STILL SINGLE! But I'm much happier this way than knowing I've attempted and failed at marriage multiple times. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:42:29 PM | | At 39 I still think 34 is ok to still not be married. Many people are establishing their careers. And look at the American divorce rate at around 50%....so is better to be grounded in your career, know what you want than to rush into something that might end up in divorce later. You are the only one who will truly know if you are ready for marriage or not. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:14:17 PM | This is mostly in response to the post by "ferruginous".
First of all your comments ferruginous are very valid and I admit I do have a heavy handed approach to communicating at times. My apologies for having offended you or any one else for that matter. I forget sometimes the power of words especially in this format. I'll crank the dial down four notches.
I was simply responding honestly to the topic at hand in a general sense. Please note when I deal with a person on a one on one basis I do take the time to find out if my questions and best guesses are on or off target. Best guesses based out of observation and experience are all any of us have to go on really. Obviously (or maybe not so obviously) I am operating off of and speaking in response to the results of my experience as well as the shared experience of my friends.
I asked several of my (single, married and divorced) girlfriends (and even a few guy friends)this question and they all had similar responses. So shoot the messenger if you want. That is the consensus among the people I know. Yes there are some men who take time to get their act together (emotionally, spiritually, financially etc) so they can marry and develop a relationship down the road, but for the most part from what I've seen and from the experiences of my friends that is not what we have seen to be the norm.
Perhaps my single and divorced friends have been fishing in the wrong pool. Perhaps our perspective is skewed to the point we are failing to see all the long term single guys that are such perfect partner material. Maybe I am/we are all just too screwed up ourselves to have a balanced opinion.
You can take my previous and current commentary with a grain of salt...as I actually expected most would. Or as you put it...paraphrasing loosely...refuse to take on commentary at all from a divorced loser. However I will not kiss your ass...no matter how cute it may look when it is angry. 
I make no claims to be perfect. I didn't know you had to be perfect to respond, state an opinion or make a comment. I'm sure anyone who would consider me for a relationship would have many of the questions you stated about me. Fair enough. I have some of the questions you stated and more when I meet a divorced guy. Like I said...best guesses.
I also have to face those questions along with a ton of other questions...not just in love but in work and in other areas of my life. That's life. I work with the hand life dealt and the choices I've made...just like everyone else. I'm glad you brought some of these questions up though so I have more insight into the perspective of others that I meet in my travels.
Since my comments have inspired ire that has thrown my personal circumstances in the spot light I'll comment on them. First I certainly have no regrets about my marriage or my son. My ex and I were together for 2+ years before we got married and lived together for a few months before tying the knot. My son was born 2 years after we were married and is truly the product of love and affection. My son is gorgeous and a gift in so many ways. If for no other reason than my son, I would say my marriage was a success even though the marriage ended.
Second, I still have a solid relationship with my ex. We are good friends and take great care in providing for our son and make nurturing his development top priority. So even though the marriage failed our friendship/partnership remains in many ways. In an ideal world my son would have two healthy parents that relate in a functional way under the same roof with him. This is not an ideal world. Sometimes parting ways is the most functional thing you can do for your kids as well as yourself.
Despite the efforts of me and my ex to remain together (we were married for 7 years/partnered for over 9), our cultural differences (he's from another country) along with many other things made remaining together as husband and wife a no go. We had more challenges than most in making things work. We went to marriage counseling separately and together. Infidelity was not the issue. Neither one of us cheated.
My ex is a stellar guy and I think he would make an excellent partner for the right woman. Unfortunately time proved that woman is not me no matter how much I wished otherwise. My ex has grown in a lot of ways and would make an even more exceptional partner for the right lucky woman.
Despite all the difficulty I experienced in the marriage I gained more than I lost. (I'm certainly not talking financially either). I grew and have grown because of it. If I had not had that experience, if I had never felt what I felt in my relationship, I probably would just content myself being single. Marriage and deep committed relationships are emotionally risky. They are definitely not for the faint of heart.
So...
Am I a presumptuous, judgmental, cheating, divorced, biotch that can't make a relationship work and failed to consult the local psychic friends network before choosing to conceive a child? Sure...whatever floats your boat. It's your world. Decorate it however you like.  | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:32:52 PM | You described me right there to a tee. I've been trying to get this book I wrote published, while working on another, hoping that the second one will catch, and then the first one will finally be accepted--won't bore anyone with that.
Second, the shyness... When I'm drinking, I'm not shy, but sober (as I prefer to meet girls), I'm a nervous wreck. Was in a relationship for six months, things were rushed, and whatever, but the only reason I managed that was my ex was taking all the initiatives.
I'm 31, I don't want to get married, but I'd be happy with someone I can truly call my own, I know this all sounds so lame. | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 7/1/2008 6:29:50 PM | Wow! I am shocked that this is even a consideration for anyone. Isn't dating and trying to find "the one" complicated enough??
I'm not sure if I am more disappointed to find out that men would think there is something WRONG with me because I have never been married before, or that yet another perceived roadblock is out that beyond my control.
I still hold out for the hope that I find "the one" who may not have been married before .. I look forward to being someone's first and last  | |
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| are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:59:09 PM | this is for ferruginous
if you're going to throw stones, then one needs to experience first before you can even begin to have a frame of reference.
'-The divorced person is not currently experiencing any of the "richness" that comes from a shared existence. Obviously their own experience with "shared existence" wasn't good enough for them to remain in.
-The divorced person obviously didn't "stick around when things got tough", but rather bailed early on because it would be easy single.'
because, so far all i've read from you is bile in copious amounts. How dare you state the above in some blanket catch all statement about divorced people. You know nothing about me yet you think such a statement covers me perfectly. you got no idea at all.
I married someone who I will love to my dying day. My first love and therefore the most special and we were together 8 years. Sure it wasn't all roses and there were bad days and I can only describe my divorce as one of the most heartbreaking upsetting experiences of my entire life.
I didn't want the marriage to end, but there is not a lot that can be done when the other half of my soul said she didn't love me anymore. this was after about 18 months of us trying to get things on track but in the end, we'd just grown in two different directions and wanted different things. I wanted kids, she didn't (ever) and rather than stay together for the hell of it, we made an adult decision and went our separate ways.
I'll always miss her. she's in another relationship now and I came to realise something very important.
there are 4 types of love
1. the love you have for your family
2. the love you have for your friends
3. your first love. the most special and regardless of how it ends something you will always carry with you
4. the love that comes next. it may be better, it may be worse but it will never be the same as your first love.
I am sincere, I am a fighter and I invest heavily in my relationships. I give of myself freely and expect very little in return, just honesty, affection, love and respect. I have an incredible store of patience for the person I give my heart to and to hear you so glibly say the word 'bail' like you think you know what you're talking about makes my blood boil.
I was single for 6 years before my wife came along and my heart just sang when I met her. I never expected it to end, but it did, and I've picked myself up and moved on and taken the positive and the happy memories with me.
I've learned, what have you learned, because when you make statements like you have. I would say 'not very much'. | |
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