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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 9:35:40 PM |
It's funny how much liberals talk about tolerance, but never practice it.
Oh, you haven't been reading the handouts (given at every socialist club meeting, right before we practice our wavelength ESP). We're espousing tolerance for those people who aren't in a position to fight for their own rights. We're about tolerance for those who are different through no choice of their own, and equality across the board. I tolerate your right to free speech, and you have every right to practice it...hell if you want to marry a syphlitic goat, assuming the goat enters into it of its own free will...knock yourself out, and make sure to get some ointment for that rash.
We don't have to tolerate ignorance quietly though. We don't have to let your assumptions about which human beings are more valuable than others stand unopposed. We don't have to tolerate those who can not fight for themselves be swept under the rug because they haven't the money or the brains or the energy to fight for themselves.
And we do NOT have to tolerate the concept that tolerance is a liberal issue. It's a human issue.
We tolerate you just fine. Ignorance is easy to tolerate, while the disease spreads easily, the cure is simply knowledge. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 9:38:22 PM | Well, it could be argued that you aren't conscious of the world around you considering in the last vote, amendments to ban gay marriage were passed in 11 states by very wide margines.
Example, here in Ohio, the "official" vote was split like 51% Bush, 49% Kerry, but the amendment here, which sucked, as it banned not only marriage, but civil unions as well, won by d*mn near 70%. I know it was over 60%, but not sure if it was high 60's or low 60's. In other states it went as high as 90%.
However valid your argument may be, you are in the minority on this one....for now. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 9:43:16 PM |
The point is what goverment HAS to do, and what it DOESN'T have to do. So I don't know what you're talking about.
The first sentence: The point also, is 'should' do. What is right, and what is wrong. Legally, the states are finding that they do have to or if they don't they are in contravention of human rights statutes.
The second sentence: Goodness...you've seen the light. I assume you'll want a reading list? | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 230 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 9:43:34 PM |
And we do NOT have to tolerate the concept that tolerance is a liberal issue
I'm just saying they throw it around, yet they call anyone with an opposing view intolerant.
Disagreement is a requisite of tolerance, people. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 231 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 9:47:46 PM |
The first sentence: The point also, is 'should' do. What is right, and what is wrong.
No. It's not a rights issue, as we've been over.
The second sentence: Goodness...you've seen the light. I assume you'll want a reading list?
I don't know what you're talking about because you are nonsensical.
Just thought I'd clear that up. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 10:23:56 PM |
I don't know what you're talking about because you are nonsensical.
Hmmn..I'm gonna throw this out to the room...anyone else having trouble understanding the points I'm trying to make? | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 10:27:07 PM |
Hmmn..I'm gonna throw this out to the room...anyone else having trouble understanding the points I'm trying to make
No. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 234 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 10:37:41 PM | Okay, baby, want me to spell it out?
I said,
I've been saying, States don't *have* to do that.
you said,
So you're cool with gay marriage then, so long as someone goes through the process of challenging it in court. Great...otherwise...you're a coward to use that as an argument when it's not the point.
I said,
The point is what goverment HAS to do, and what it DOESN'T have to do. So I don't know what you're talking about.
See, you said I was avoiding the point, when the point is about what the goverment does, or doesn't do, which is what I was addressing. So. You don't make sense. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 10:55:56 PM |
You don't make sense.
Hmmn...already one person has chimed in who's having no problems understanding me...seems you're off to a bit of an inauspicious start here.
Anyone else? | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 236 | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 11:22:08 PM |
Married couples that don't have children are exceptions. Laws are written for the masses, not for exceptions.
Thanks for clearing that up, Loukus. Being as homosexuals are a mart of the masses, then there should be no reason why they can't get married. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 11:31:49 PM | | I am not sure what you are saying but I think you dont like bush or america, or I could be wrong. Did you know that Al Gore sold the elk hills oil reserve to oxy petroleum which his father and him has ties to. If you think there is a difference between democrat or republican you are not very intelegent. They are both one in the same playing the two card monty on the american people. Under the Clinton rule of power and the direct order of Janet Reno the people at Waco Texas were murdered. The Clinton's also bombed Kosovo for some 70 or 80 days straight and not one word of it in the media. Over 2000 civilian's killed for no reason and they did not attack us buy flying plane's into the world trade center. Also the world trade center was bombed from in the underground parking with a truck bomb and that was when the clinton's were in power and they did nothing. Any answer's to these question's I would like to know. All I am saying is no government is good but let's not just keep it too one person. The Clinton's are far worst than Bush ever was or will ever be. I just hope that the Clinton's and Janet Reno like it in Hell with there big brother Lucifer. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 11:34:01 PM |
Hmmn...already one person has chimed in who's having no problems understanding me...seems you're off to a bit of an inauspicious start here.
Nobody is having trouble understanding you, including Loukus. He is just using his favourite tactic of debating in circles and making nonsensical posts. Kind of reminds me of this:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_45.php | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 11:40:00 PM |
So, is this what you do, when you've run out of fallacies?
Nope, just when I've become a bit bored with trying to explain 2 plus 2 = 4 more than a couple of times...
Nervous that you're perhaps in the minority on this 'making sense' thing? Minority positions are often a bit tenuous, so any discomfort you may have is normal. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 6:25:36 AM | BDS4711... (sorry don't feel like quoting. :P )
I am conscious of the world around me... sometimes I wish I could
live in my little bubble and pretend the rest don't exist.
Fact is there are Gay people and they aren't second class citizens.
Just because the Majority wants it doesn't make it right... thats
been proven time and again in recent years.
I'm completely aware I am a Minority (on MANY issues)...
Michigan was 51% Kerry, 49% Bush and still 60% voted
down Gay Marriage & Civil Union rights. First time in history
Constitutions are being changed to include rather than exclude
predjudice. I think its disgraceful and America should be ashamed of itself....
Whats next? Inter-Racial Marriage? Non-Child Bearing Marriage? | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 6:30:11 AM |
Marraige has existed for a very, very long time as it is, and worked quite well. To write off people that defend it as just being hateful intolerants is well,... real intolerance.
I'm glad you picked out that little tid bit and completely avoided any real conversation or debate on the other issues and opinions I brought you. Apparently you don't have an intellegent answer and would rather dwell on my supposed shortcomings. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 6:48:59 AM |
...completely avoided any real conversation or debate on the other issues and opinions I brought you.
It's a bit of a habit of his... | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 7:36:32 AM |
Marraige has existed for a very, very long time as it is, and worked quite well. To write off people that defend it as just being hateful intolerants is well,... real intolerance.
Many posters on these forums who are against same-sex marriage has stated some variation of the above. I decided to do a bit of research. This is what I found.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/fairfignewton/73694.html?#cutid1
Therefore, by your own words, if you are defending the way marriage has always been done, you have to allow same-sex marriage as well. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 245 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 8:00:21 AM | This is ridiculous.
Someone make a new thread, with as solid of a one-sentence point as you can muster, and we can go from there. This is way too fragmented. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 8:16:35 AM | HR: I can see by your post that you are very
Intelegent
The Kosovo bombing was covered full bore in the media (or else you're blind or never watch tv or read newspapers). I don't know how many civilians were killed, but I do believe it was collateral damages and it stopped mass genocide from happening. There were several mass graves found that contained the bodies of thousands of Albanians killed by the Serbs. There was also a connection between the Serbs and Russians that was stopped by the US military surrounding and containing Russian military at the airport which kept them from reestablishing Serbia as a "client state" in eastern europe and possibly another iron curtain.
In Waco, there was a major mistake in the way it was handled and hundreds were needlessly killed. There's no question it was one of the bigger mistakes of the Clinton adminstration; there's no question....
BUT, these are NOTHING in scope and largesse compared to Bush's lies about WMD's and needlessly invading Iraq, where our soldiers are STILL stuck and may not get out for years. Bush has also broken treaty after treaty, insulted all of our allies and trashed our role as leader of the free world.
This government is NOT good. IN fact, they're VERY BAD.
They're purposely running the economy into the ground with huge tax cuts benefitting a very few people who are buying it up and controlling it. They're also running up the national debt like the flag up a pole to cheapen the dollar so huge international corporations like the Carlyle Group, Halliburton Construction and other friends of the president can sell their goods to foreign markets while our purchasing power goes thru the floor.
He's all but ruined the UN and NATO.
We started off his term in 2001 as the strongest economy and, most dominant military nation in the history of civilization. When 911 happened, we had all the sympathy in the world.
With this butthead, we've lost it and the US is sunk in the quagmire of a war we can't get out of, which we got into only because he had a hairbrained scheme that he could use the US military to steal some oil from a third world country for his oil industry buddies.
His gamble was a sickening mistake. What was once the world's most dominant military is being gnawed away at by a civilian population which has them totally outnumbered and surrounded. There aren't enough soldiers to control the country and the armor that the Reagan administration spent TRILLIONS of dollars on is being blown up every day.
Bush is a liar, a thief and a fool. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 247 | |
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navy4u
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Msg: 248 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 8:23:27 AM | and the armor that the Reagan administration spent TRILLIONS of dollars on is being blown up every day.
******************************************************************
What armor, i was sent over without even a flak jacket! Many of us were. We were told that our jackets were given to the previous unit sent over..... | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/7/2005 10:29:22 AM |
What armor, i was sent over without even a flak jacket! Many of us were. We were told that our jackets were given to the previous unit sent over.....
Man, I can't even begin to express...I know there are a lot of people who are finding fault with the U.S. government's involvement in Iraq, and I'm one of them, but please know this...
I believe that soldiers like yourself, and your brothers/sisters in arms, are some of the bravest and most admirable people on this green earth. Your courage and dedication to your work, and under such incredibly harsh circumstances is simply awe-inspiring.
Here's hoping you are all home, safe and with your families, soon. And in the meantime, please accept my heartfelt admiration and thanks for doing a job most of us wouldn't dirty our hands with (including your last two presidents) with honour, pride and dignity.
If I could, I'd buy ya a beer and be honoured to shake your hand. | |
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| Nuke everyone !cause chaos we still sell oil and hamburgers muhahaa
Posted: 1/17/2005 11:14:08 AM | Rising anger hits Pentagon's DU use
By Paddy Colligan
Thousands of people in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal have recently protested the Pentagon's use of depleted-uranium weapons in Europe. They charge that DU is the cause of a cancer epidemic among European NATO troops who occupied Bosnia and Kosovo, where the U.S. used DU-enhanced weapons.
The Labor Center of Athens called thousands to Athens, Larisa and Karditsa in Greece Feb. 8 and 9 to demand that NATO be abolished, its bases and nuclear weapons expelled from the region, and Greek soldiers returned from Yugoslavia. Under pressure from soldiers worried about the health risks of DU, the Greek government has declared that none of its troops will be forced to stay in Kosovo.
A demonstration was called by the Clark Tribunal in Italy--the group that organized the anti-NATO war crimes tribunal after the war against Yugoslavia. At this Feb. 3 protest, delegations of soldiers and organizations called for the guilty to be removed from power and held responsible for crimes against the Balkans' people and Italy's soldiers
In Brussels, Belgium, a conference titled "Uranium: The Victims Speak" will start March 1. It will bring together soldiers contaminated by DU with people "whose countries have been turned into nuclear and chemical waste dumps." They will strategize with anti-NATO forces about building opposition to DU. For information write to Abolition.ua@caramail.com
In Spain, anti-DU activists are demonstrating before the national army headquarters in Madrid on Feb. 24. For more information, see the web site at www.nodo50.org/csca/.
What is DU?
DU as a byproduct of uranium enrichment and weapons production is a deadly addition to the U.S. a***nal of weapons of mass destruction. It recycles difficult to dispose of low-grade uranium, putting its high-density property to work.
By adding DU to steel armor, tanks are made impenetrable by conventional missiles. Adding DU to the missiles and bullets greatly enhances their armor-piercing capacity. DU may be “relatively safe,” as the Pentagon has claimed, but only as long as it is not used. Once used, however, DU becomes extremely hazardous.
Once its protective coating is removed, for example by heat caused by friction, explosion or burning, DU is transformed into microscopic, hard particles that can be inhaled, blown for dozens of miles, or can lay on the ground for future dispersal by wind, water, and human contact.
DU causes chemical and radiation damage once inside the human body. It is believed that the radiation from DU particularly affects the lungs, the kidneys, and bone marrow where uranium compounds from DU can remain for years. DU, it is now believed by researchers, may be made even more harmful when in combination with impurities retained from its origin in the plutonium enrichment process.
DU in Iraq, Vieques, Balkans
Where DU has been used--southern Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, and bombing ranges in Vieques, Okinawa and south Korea--it presents an enormous and continuing danger for civilians living in the contaminated areas.
There has been a documented increase in the rates of childhood leukemia and rare forms of cancer in southern Iraq, where the U.S. used huge amounts of DU materials during the 1991 Gulf War.
A lawsuit challenging the U.S. Navy's use of Vieques--a small island off the coast of Puerto Rico--as a bombing range is demanding restitution for people living on the island. Over a third of the island's 9,000 inhabitants suffer from serious illnesses and cancers that doctors have linked to six decades of Pentagon bombing. DU weapons have been tested there.
Lt. Gen. Boris Alekseyev, the Russian Armed Forces' top environmental safety officer, has charged that in occupied Kosovo, U.S. "soldiers are stationed in an uncontaminated area that was not hit by a single bomb or missile containing depleted uranium."
On the other hand, he said, "the Italians are serving in areas where the bombardment with uranium-containing munitions was the most intensive." Russian troops in the area are being screened for signs of illness. (Kommersant, Jan. 10)
The British government admitted "that thousands of British troops serving in Kosovo were placed at risk from the deadly effects of depleted uranium, the substance linked to Gulf War Syndrome, after a health warning failed to reach soldiers during the 1999 NATO conflict." (Guardian, Feb. 8) It has been forced to agree to test any soldier who requests it for DU exposure.
The World Health Organization appealed on Feb. 1 for $2 million to fund research into the effects of DU ammunition in the Balkans and Iraq.
In West Concord, Mass., a demonstration in January targeted Starmet, one of the two DU munitions producers in the United States. Starmet, now bankrupt, is leaving behind a leaking, unlined waste pit in a residential neighborhood where it buried 400,000 pounds of depleted uranium from 1958 to 1985. The bill for the cleanup is $50 million.
Both Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority continue to call for international investigations of Israeli use of DU weapons. Palestinian forces charged the Israeli military with using DU weapons against the latest uprising. At first the Israelis denied the charge. But they were later forced to concede that they had used DU weapons in the past.
The anger sweeping Europe about depleted uranium has provided an outlet for NATO rivals to raise their differences with Washington. It also raises other problems for the Pentagon: Will the women and men in the U.S. occupation forces in the Balkans become concerned about their own health? Will they question why they are risking their lives for yet another ill-conceived U.S. military adventure, cynically sold to them as a humanitarian rescue mission?
Copies of an International Action Center leaflet informing U.S. service people about DU's dangers and the events in Europe, and asking them to investigate the dangers to themselves and others, were distributed at a demonstration against Plan Colombia at Fort Bragg, N.C., on Feb. 10, 2001.
posted: 2/19/01 | |
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