| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 12:29:08 PM | Hmmn, you know, just as an aside...
The overall question "are the U.S. misunderstood"...unfortunately, no. I guess they're not misunderstood at all in many respects. They actually do believe this sh!t. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 152 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 1:32:02 PM |
Marriage is a right. You have the right to be married, like you have the right to vote.
You have a right to be married. You do not have a right to the State recognition. No one does.
It's like saying you have a right to free dog food. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 1:55:26 PM | Bds: when you say "sacrament", the word is supposed to mean something is "sacred". There's no "sacred" in civil law, only rights. So when you say "sacred", who's religion are you talking about and what is religion supposed to have with US government?
Doesn't it say "congress shall make no law with respect to religion"?
Weak argument.... | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 2:22:41 PM | Loukos: you can keep your dog food *LOL* Precious stuff.. real expensive these days.. I know you hate to part with it...
WTF does that have to do with anything?  | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 2:27:09 PM |
I can just hear the fuses blowing in what passes for your brain
Goes to show that some people can always interpret the simplest messages in their holy texts as justification for their own brand of violence, but not others.
Myself, I thought those statements I mentioned didn't need interpretation. They stand well enough on their own. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 2:27:15 PM | Varus: your post about Jesus and the way the scriptures you quoted should be interpreted make pretty good sense *shock and awe*
But what about making up false excuses and lying to start a war?
What about all the other lies he's told?
You can defend the principal of self-defense, but that's far from what Bush's actions amount to...
Oh, and don't forget about him slashing funds to children's hospitals AND THEN trying to cut combat pay by 1/3... and um... how about starting the "no child left behind" program and then not funding it?
He's a liar, a thief and a murderer... | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 2:38:20 PM | "Doesn't it say "congress shall make no law with respect to religion"?"
Government shouldn't be in marriage period. Marriage is a vow made before God by man and woman. Government, in my opinion, should get the hell out of marriage period. No more joint filing of taxes, no more of any of that crap. Two unmarried people can both own property. They can both share bank accounts, they can still do alot of the things that married people can do. Even if a bank won't give a loan to two people, they can still set up a contract and fight it out in court.
Furthermore, I'm all for getting rid of income tax and would much rather prefer a national sales tax, then government shouldn't give a d*mn whether someone is married or not and who owns what and all that bull. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 3:03:41 PM | bds: *LOL* well if "Government shouldn't be in marriage period", then why should they outlaw it... oh wise one? :-|
... and how about the benefits married couples get that same sex couples don't?
Shouldn't they receive it if they pay into it?
I'll be waiting here until you figure it out.. Have a nice life.  | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 3:35:45 PM | You assume I'm against gay civil unions. I'm against gays calling it marriage, but if they want to join civily in the eyes of the law, I"m all for it and voted against the gay marriage ban here in Ohio.
What benefits do married couples get that gay couples can't have, short of tax breaks and filing jointly and inheritance (which is only an issue because of taxes).
- They can own property together.
- Some insurance companies allow SO"s on policies. More are starting to cover it.
- They can have dual bank accounts.
- As for inheritance, a will, can clear up 90% of any civil litigation there. It's up to the person to get the will done.
We've already let government in our lives too much that now we are needing more government to fix the problem.
"Government isn't the solution, government is the problem"
I believe a Republican said that. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 161 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:57:07 PM |
Loukos: you can keep your dog food *LOL* Precious stuff.. real expensive these days.. I know you hate to part with it...
I'm a cat person, actually.
WTF does that have to do with anything?
It's as ridiculous for gays to expect the goverment to just extent benefits to them, as it is for me to expect free dog food from the goverment. It's called an analogy. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 5:59:14 PM |
It's as ridiculous for gays to expect the goverment to just extent benefits to them, as it is for me to expect free dog food from the goverment. It's called an analogy.
Hmmn...while technically what you describe could be considered a bad analogy, it's more similar in structure to a bad simile (a figure of speech comparing two unlike things that is often introduced by like or as ).
But let's not split hairs about what kind of bad rhetorical tool it is...
And without truly expecting you to get it, let's review anyway as there may be others in the class paying attention...
The state is expected to offer the same benefits to all of its citizens regardless of race, creed, colour or sexual orientation. The last group are only recently being included in this constitutionally protected effort to ensure equal rights to citizens but they are in fact recognized in many ways already and it is becoming enshrined in law.
The state has this responsibility to prevent inequalities between individuals protected by the constitution where it asserts that there is, essentially, no class system to citizenship. What is afforded to one, must be afforded to all. Retirement pensions/death benefits, taxes, other financial advantage for married couples...all of these things require 'marriage' and so the state does have a responsibility to ensure they are not treated as second class citizens.
No country is suggesting that legally, Catholic churches MUST perform weddings/marriages to gay couples. But they are saying that the government recognition of their union as a legally binding marriage is a matter of human rights. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 163 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:07:32 PM |
The state is expected to offer the same benefits to all of its citizens regardless of race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
False. I stopped reading after this. Rights are protected. Benefits are not.
"Equal Benefits" doesn't mean anything. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:11:03 PM |
False. I stopped reading after this. Rights are protected. Benefits are not. .
Brilliant! That explains why you continue to labour under so many misconceptions. As soon as you read something that you disagree with, you stop reading anything further.
Gotcha. Please give my regards to the Flat Earth Society. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 165 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:15:10 PM |
As soon as you read something that you disagree with, you stop reading anything further.
It's a blanant untruth. It doesn't even make sense. "Equal benefits" is not only a communist idea, it's a bad one.
"Equal benefits" don't exist in capitalism. If you refuse to accept that, then your judgement is beyond repair. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:25:54 PM | Loukos: Anal? yes...
Logos? I don't think so...
Hmmmmm... anal? Log? ...
toilet torpedo of a thought???
OH YEAH!!!! i GOT IT!!!!
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:30:05 PM | "Equal benefits" don't exist in capitalism. If you refuse to accept that, then your judgement is beyond repair.
He isn't talking about capitalism. He is talking about basic rights and privileges, which everyone should have regardless of race, beliefs, or lifestyles. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 168 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:30:26 PM | If you people don't,-scratch that-, can't say what you mean, and mean what you say, then there's nothing to talk about.
People not paying attention to the things that they say is the hallmark of thier immaturity. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:30:58 PM |
It's a blanant untruth. It doesn't even make sense. "Equal benefits" is not only a communist idea, it's a bad one.
Sweetpea, if you'd read further (and I know you didn't) you'd have seen that these benefits are actually rights that heterosexual couples have (I went to a bit of an effort to explain above, try reading it). Equal rights in the form of employment, property and tax benefits exists in capitalism. They ARE rights in fact... Would you like examples of governments that have already established this (capitalist governments too! Red China be d*mned I can offer European Union democracies as well as your neighbours to the north). No need to send dog food, old boy, this is fact. Oh sh!t, he's probably stopped reading already...dammit. And all because he's got himself in a tizzy about the use of the words benefit (as in employment benefit) and right (as in the right to enjoy the same employment benefits as other citizens). Ah well, maybe others are reading this at least...
You'll not have much luck convincing people of their lack of judgement if you go around admitting that you're not bothering to read any information that doesn't toe the line with your own rather uninformed beliefs. For that reason, I'm gonna just hold on worring about my unrepairable judgement... | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 170 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:31:54 PM |
He is talking about basic rights and privileges, which everyone should have regardless of race, beliefs, or lifestyles.
He's talking about benefits. I've stated it, he's stated it. Benefits are not equal in a capitalist equation. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:35:01 PM | Chrissakes...you have to READ the WHOLE thing...
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm
We can work on more complex issues in literacy later. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 172 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:35:25 PM |
if you'd read further (and I know you didn't) you'd have seen that these benefits are actually rights that heterosexual couples have
Right there. stop. You're wrong.
They - are - not.
It's the fundamental flaw in the pro-gay marraige arguement. State benefits -of any sort- are not, and will never be rights. | |
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Loukus
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Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 173 | |
| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:37:07 PM |
Chrissakes...you have to READ the WHOLE thing...
When you say benefits, people will assume that you are saying benefits.
Just fyi.
I'll just keep in mind not to take you at your word. eh? How would that be? | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:37:17 PM | http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
It's their home page...enjoy. | |
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| Are the U.S. misunderstood?
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:37:30 PM |
He's talking about benefits.
No, he is talking about basic human rights, as he showed in his next sentence:
The last group are only recently being included in this constitutionally protected effort to ensure equal rights to citizens but they are in fact recognized in many ways already and it is becoming enshrined in law. | |
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