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 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 76
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' TheoryPage 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

You, sir, are a genius. Although you're taking money out of David DeAngenlo's pocket, but I don't mind.


have read that" D.D."(real name, Eben Pagan) grosses about US$ 30 million per year from his little on-line advice empire

so I wouldn't worry too much about him, he'll be OK
 Metal_Mike667
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 77
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/21/2011 9:38:44 AM
some women go for the "high status" alpha male type, Always lead the way, Make all the decisions, Id be lying if i wasnt telling you this. Just remember Confidence is the key have fun in a playful and flirty way, tease the woman. Have a good time and dont be afraid of getting let down.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 78
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 9:46:16 AM
Dave DeAngelo, and all the self proclaimed Pick Up Artist are all jokes. They make their money on socially awkward men who just tell them to be d bags.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 79
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 4:21:44 PM
Dave DeAngelo, and all the self proclaimed Pick Up Artist are all jokes. They make their money on socially awkward men who just tell them to be d bags.

I saw a streaming video of one of his lectures, and you're right in that he's making money on socially awkward men. That's supposed to be true and nothing wrong with that. Personal trainers make their money on physically out-of-shape people.

I've caught snippets of some stuff that definitely pushes guys to be d-bags, sure, and that's unnecessary and that goal is to market differently to make more money... although pushing a socially awkward guy to be a d-bag on the opposite end of the scale usually won't make him such and could actually, in the end, put him a more middle-ground position that'd garner better results for him. Again, not the best avenue, but if it gets some results, you can't call them a scam artist full of crap.

I could write a book on how to lose weight and throw in a bunch of wild crazy ideas... that would go against one stuffing twinkies down their throat still, and result in some exercise. Even if it wasn't an ideal route, nobody's going to follow it to a tee IRL, but giving it an honest, genuine college try would result in lost weight for most. And I'd make money (if it hit adequate newstands, which I doubt it would if I drummed one up, lol).

Aim to make money + not necessarily best route Does Not Equal Scam or Completely Ineffective, is all I'm saying. I think with most literature, that I've come across, the basic concepts are pretty spot on -- some just veer off like diet books do. But nobody (ie gals) wants a pre-emptive strategy "working" on them from any book. From Grandma or a wholesome female friend or themselves, sure... but not from any book unless it explicitly cries out against the concept of "getting laid". People will assume sympathy to "getting laid" = pushing to be "using women".
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 80
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:04:21 PM
Should say 'Boring guys with no self confidence' finish last.

Nice people always come out ahead except in chess and hockey.
 Glenoran1
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 81
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:18:56 PM
^^^^ Even in hockey, there's the (is it Heismann?) trophy for most gentlemanly player.
 ivanoso
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 82
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:53:17 PM
Girls just put up with more from a guy if he is good looking. Guys know that so they dont give a **** and treat girls however they want. Simple as that.
 Reveal1K
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 83
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 8:00:00 PM

Dave DeAngelo, and all the self proclaimed Pick Up Artist are all jokes. They make their money on socially awkward men who just tell them to be d bags.


Wrong.

If the self proclaimed nice guys would give the PUA stuff a chance, they would at the very least understand WHY they are not getting women, why they always end up in the friend zone, and why they can't get laid. Even just the simple newsletters which are free give good advice.
 asimpleguy32
Joined: 9/11/2011
Msg: 84
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 8:34:39 PM
Good guys do finnish last
 zuythemanfrog
Joined: 6/2/2011
Msg: 85
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 9:22:45 PM
Hey-we socially awkward types need all the help we can get!
 Glenoran1
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 86
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 10:13:12 PM
Rawr, you make several very good points.

Please be reassured, being a nice guy -- if that is who you truly are -- is an excellent thing. Fellows who overdo spoiling a girl do make them feel beholden (as you say) and like he is trying to buy her love. Everything in moderation. (Or to use another cliche, slow and steady wins the race.)

I would not presume to speak for women in general; I can only speak for myself. A good man who balances generosity of character with good judgement (that does not mean unduly lavishing money and gifts on the woman), and shows by his behaviour that he can be trusted and cares deeply for her, is doing everything right, in my books. If there is mutual attraction, and nothing pops up that is a dealbreaker, nature should take its course and the two become 'an item', as folks of my generation used to say.

If you are a good person, please continue to be. Trying to be something you are not is automatically being less than you are. Trust in yourself, Rawr, that you will end up with the right person for you, being who you really are. Otherwise, you'll find yourself in a relationship based on a lie you will then have to continue to live out, and you can't be happy that way.
 bodypro88
Joined: 10/15/2011
Msg: 87
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 11:27:22 PM
In 1986 I ran off to LA to get away from my Vancouver girlfriend. We were doomed and I didn't want to stick around. Plus I was about to lose my drivers license. I was involved in this seminar program called Men, Sex, and Power.

I met a guy from that seminar, a Vietnam vet and he was in his 40's, I had just turned thirty. He was married and lived in West Covina. He did property management. He told me that, "When you are single you fvck them all, because if you just go for the pretty ones then you will fall in love with a woman just because she is pretty. And that's the wrong reason to fall in love."

It sounded like wisdom, like good advice, but at the time...

Making a science out if figuring out women is bad science. Going back to when I was 18, I was in a nightclub in Victoria BC and there was a young girl at the table with an older guy and she was a pretty red head and I was drunk and I started crying and begging her to come home with me. It was pretty pathetic and the guy he said, "It's not as big as you think it is." He repeated that a couple of times. I never forgot that either.
 BigEddd
Joined: 9/9/2011
Msg: 88
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/24/2011 11:35:55 PM
Why do nice guys finish last? It's because they are push overs and will go out of their way to please a girl. The bad guys do the opposite and present a challenge which the girls feed off of. When a girl doesn't get what they want it becomes exciting rather than predicable.
 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 89
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 7:44:07 AM

Even in hockey, there's the (is it Heismann?) trophy for most gentlemanly player.


it's called the " Lady Byng" trophy, Heisman is US college football .

still, the Byng is hardly as treasured as beign top goal scorer, MVP, etc.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 90
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 7:58:26 AM

If the self proclaimed nice guys would give the PUA stuff a chance, they would at the very least understand WHY they are not getting women, why they always end up in the friend zone, and why they can't get laid. Even just the simple newsletters which are free give good advice.

I buy into bullshit, sorry. They are BSA, and it's all just a bunch of worn out lines and stupid hat, and a conversation piece. Women finally became smart enough to see through this crap, because it went public. If I knew where the Holy Grail was I wouldn't tell a soul. Whatever happened to being original with out having to "peacock" to get attention.

Just FYI I do not consider myself a nice guy or whatever...I am me and it works just fine.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 91
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 8:01:11 AM
I think I'm a good guy is just another excuse for I can't get what I want
without changing who I am.

It's right up there with the I'm too short, I'm too fat, I'm too ugly, I'm too
poor excuses.

I also think people wear the I'm the good guy cape without actually being
a good guy/person.

and ps...It's nice to see you Bodypro.
 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 92
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 8:02:24 AM
^^

I bet their are women that have heard the EXACT SAME lines dozens of times, these azzhats repeat VERBATIM what their 'guru' tells them to say, like a parrot or robot, no originality..lol

I wouldn't doubt some go into a venue (bar, etc.) with notes or the guru's book in their hand & consult it while attempting their moves on women, lol
 elednuw
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 93
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Posted: 10/25/2011 8:26:39 AM
Being a so called "nice guy",I'm confused as to what women really wan't.A lot of women's profiles say they want a nice guy but they really want the bad boy types who treat them like shit,cheat on them,abuse them and so on.Nice guys are not doormats and are not boring.The only types of girls who appreciate nice guys are the nice girl types.You attract who you are.Whats missed here in most of the comments here is that nice guys mostly want to date the "nice girl" types.Nice guys usually don't like girls who smoke,drink,party,are loud and aggressive,sleep around,or being sloppy and unkept.Ya maybe just for sex but thats it.Nice guys like the sweet looking innocent types who have wholesome personalities.They don't drink or party,they usually look classy and sophisticated.Those kind of girls are uaually not interested in the bad boy types and genuinly want a "nice guy".Being a doormat and boring is not a fair assessment of a nice guy.Doing nice things with a woman,treating her with respect,dignity and kindness you would think is an honarable thing.It seems only the real "nice girl"types appreciate a nice guy like me.That is basically who a nice guy is and exactly what a nice guy wants.I'm a nice guy and proud to be one.
 bodypro88
Joined: 10/15/2011
Msg: 94
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 9:29:11 AM
This whole topic is so puerile, shallow, and vacuous as to have become an institutionalized trolling opportunity on these forums.
Now I can slide slightly off topic: thanks browneyesboo, good to see you too!
 Orgulloso
Joined: 8/28/2010
Msg: 95
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 10:51:23 AM
This "nice guy" thing is so played out. Nice guy being synonymous with being needy, a dormat, not confident, blah, blah, blah. It has all but pushed me to the sidelines indefinitely on this thing called dating.

I could see the argument if the dude turns out to be these things once a relationship is established. For instance, if he's still indecisive, still places the onus on the woman making decisions, still wants to spend ALL of his idle time with you, etc. You get my point.

I can't digest the BS about gals dating a DB and then going nuts in their profiles and on these forums about guys being phony, players, blah, blah. Y'all might've picked up on a red flag if you weren't being NICE to Mr. DB in order to get HIS attention.

Can't have it both ways.
 Reveal1K
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 96
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Posted: 10/25/2011 11:30:15 AM

I buy into bullshit, sorry. They are BSA, and it's all just a bunch of worn out lines and stupid hat, and a conversation piece. Women finally became smart enough to see through this crap, because it went public. If I knew where the Holy Grail was I wouldn't tell a soul. Whatever happened to being original with out having to "peacock" to get attention.

Just FYI I do not consider myself a nice guy or whatever...I am me and it works just fine.

Damn, wrong again! 3 strikes and you're out.

You can't tell me it doesn't work, because I've seen it work. And it's worked for me.
I think you're mad because someone else found the Holy Grail, so to speak. And you didn't. Besides, if you think every pickup artist is running around in a big hat and spouting off line after line, then you're way off, and should learn a little bit more about the subject before you talk about it.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 97
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 11:45:35 AM
They are BSA, and it's all just a bunch of worn out lines and stupid hat, and a conversation piece.

Actually going thru some of that (online) literature a long while ago, I was looking for specific "lines" ie conversation starters, and it was very hard to find them -- so classifying that stuff as "just lines" would be very inaccurate (although I'm sure there are some things out there focusing on that). More along the lines of descriptions of how to be; not really any scripts at all, sorry.

Basically, it's about one's mode & presentation .... the angle, the attitude, being well groomed, and in some cases, having a unique tinge to it all. Many of them clearly say that no, there is not any one LINE or SAYING that's going to get a girl to run into the sunset with you, and I think that's the biggest misconception. It's an attitude of not being Mr Nice Guy, and not needing a woman, nor coming off as such by oozing out a sense of catering to them to try and win them over. It gets more specific than that, but no, no one-liners, sorry.

Just FYI I do not consider myself a nice guy or whatever...I am me and it works just fine.

And that's good... not that there wouldn't be any room for improvement for anyone of course, but basically if you're not Mr Nice Guy let-me-get-that-and-everything-else-for-you as the persona when interacting with a woman, then great. I think some guys who are brought up that way (by family TV, friends, family, other gals), believe it's something else like women like flat-out jerks and such (which are better liked by outgoing women when they statistically have to choose, but I digress).

When you are single you fvck them all, because if you just go for the pretty ones then you will fall in love with a woman just because she is pretty. And that's the wrong reason to fall in love."

The first part is bad advice -- the last part is dead on. You shouldn't fall in love with someone just because they're pretty.

Why do nice guys finish last? It's because they are push overs and will go out of their way to please a girl.

Exactly. And just like some Conversation Openers found in that TV Show Pick-Up Artist became known ruins the mood of initial interaction ("Do you floss before or after you brush?"), so has the whole "I'll do anything to please you". Not just Mr Nice Guys, but traditional (+ineffective) players go that route, and that's old-hat as well. Not to mention that a woman who is very attractive and outgoing is going to get that day-in, day-out when going out, and has always been old-hat for them

.... being someone who doesn't project a persona that they Need the woman, but are sparking conversation with them and seeing if She is good enough for Him in subtle undertones just as much, as things unfold early on, while being friendly & confident, are going to garner better results than being Mr Caterer. Such advice given by authors/speakers who encourage to (also) have sex doesn't change effectiveness of something garnering a girl's interest in the beginning vs something else.
 bodypro88
Joined: 10/15/2011
Msg: 98
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 10/25/2011 12:17:13 PM
He was saying to play the field and not just go for "10's" and moan about how unfair it all is. The reason guys have trouble is because they are secretly afraid of women and the power women have over them. That power is beauty. That fear is why men put women on pedestals. If you live enough you really won't need techniques and strategies and what not. You really won't, and you won't need to over analyze stuff like this. Does that mean I can get any woman I want? Far from it. The usual rules still apply. For every man. But I am not at the affect of it. Of wanting / needing women and that is very liberating.
 platypus_man
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 99
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:02:50 PM

Nice people always come out ahead except in chess and hockey.

Nope. Lots of women have absolutely no attraction to guys who go out of their way to be nice to them. I grew up working in a predominantly female environment, and listened to women complaining about all the macho men in their lives. So, what did they do? Date more macho men. Women simply don't know what they want. What you say you want, and what you actually do, are two entirely different things. What's worse, is when women try to coach guys on how to attract other women. The 'nice' thing simply doesn't work. Women want alpha male types, and respond to and are attracted to alpha male behavior and characteristics, whether they will admit to it or not. Consider all the women who complain about their man's behavior but can't bring themselves to leave him because they're still attracted to him.
 sweetness-one
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 100
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:17:23 PM

Women want alpha male types, and respond to and are attracted to alpha male behavior and characteristics, whether they will admit to it or not.


I'll admit to agreeing with this, BUT...where most men seem to make their primary mistake, is in determining what an "alpha male" actually is. In the forums, seems most of the men who aren't having any luck with the ladies, they seem to equate an alpha male with being a "bad boy" or an azzhole. Perhaps to explain their lack of success, I guess?

But it's not really so, at least not in my eyes, or in most of my female friends' eyes, for what we've always been seeking.

A man CAN be a nice guy, and still be an alpha. Perhaps it's because my friends and I are older, but if I had to sum it up in my views at least, what we view an alpha man to be is simply a CAPABLE man. Capable, confident, and yet still nice. No azzholes, no "bad boys"...just capable men. THAT is a true "alpha man" to me, at least.

I'm guessing only the women posters will get what I mean by capable, but, there it is. Has nothing to do with chest-puffing, machismo, neanderthal traits. Simply confident, capable, perhaps unassuming, and still...a good guy. JMO.
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