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 CapnRHHNY
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 151
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' TheoryPage 7 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
How times have changed and the labeling of people have changed. I always thought of Nice guys" as being "momma's boys. Wimpy, quiet, no confidence, in their approach to other. But, they were the go to guys when help was needed. They are the guys who had hearts of gold, were honest, fun, and had integrity. Jerks were and still are jerks. Playahs fall into this category. Seems that there's a distinct difference here. As far as the nice guy ending last in today's age.....not if he has power and wealth. Then, he can choose to be nice if he likes.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 152
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/13/2011 4:21:40 PM

How times have changed and the labeling of people have changed. I always thought of Nice guys" as being "momma's boys. Wimpy, quiet, no confidence, in their approach to other. But, they were the go to guys when help was needed. They are the guys who had hearts of gold, were honest, fun, and had integrity. Jerks were and still are jerks. Playahs fall into this category. Seems that there's a distinct difference here. As far as the nice guy ending last in today's age.....not if he has power and wealth. Then, he can choose to be nice if he likes.
Apparently things haven't changed that much. Because that's exactly how it is.
 Arteest1650
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 153
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/13/2011 4:25:49 PM
Nice guys actually always finish first....
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 154
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/13/2011 8:37:10 PM
Nice guys do expect something in return: sex.

Well, not any more than any other non-player, let's say. They want her garnered interest is a better way to put it, which, in the end sex would be a by-product, sure, and could be more of a focal point if it's Spring Break or something where he wouldn't be tricking a gal into believing he's really that into her (otherwise he wouldn't be Mr Nice Guy).

He expects it, and when he doesn't get what he expects, he blames the women for being stupid and the jerks for getting the very pu*sy that he is trying to get.

I pretty much agree with you there. Mr Nice Guys I think are confused. They have that way about them because they BELIEVE underneath it all, as it's confirmed by many of their (wholesome & family-related) female peers along with media/TV, that the guy's role is to seek approval/validation to the woman, and that he's the contestant and she's the panel of judges. He believes that's the case because if a gal was like that to him, he'd love it -- it'd be great if that was the case, so why doesn't she? Mr Nice Guys are set in their ways, lack courage/confidence/understanding, and have an inaccurate view of what socially outgoing, attractive women respond best to.

I basically have a scale that goes along like this, from Mr Nice Guy to Mr Bad Guy:
- Mr Nice Guy (doormat; seeks approval to win a girl over and obviously seen; he's the fish jumping in the boat, not a catch; believes its okay for women to walk all over a guy, but doesn't see it as walking all over)
- Beta Male (Mr Nice Guy LITE; not quite as obvious; lacks any Alpha Male qualities; his style/swagger can be same as Mr Nice Guy and many times assumed he is, but in the end, he's not Quite that bad but has a lack of confidence and has the mentality of being a provider for a woman)
- Alpha Male (Ideal candidate; does not seek approval or validation; a woman will have to compete for his attention just as much as a guy would to her; he's a gentleman, but offerings & sweetness is earned, not given just because she has a V; he's not going to chase a gal and his style/swagger relates to that, and the vibe a woman gets is that from his persona/style/swagger, he's not settling for just anyone and that other women find him as a catch; charming & confident)
- Alpha Male Tough Guy (Alpha male and then some; kind of a d!ck to several people; seems & acts like a tough guy, a bit of an a$$hole; overly prideful, ego problems)
- Mr Bad Guy (A total deadbeat; will end up abusing women verbally and/or physically; total d!ckhead with an attitude of being a bad-a$$ and has social problems with drinking, drugs, and/or criminal activities)

Most outgoing, attractive women will go for Alpha Male Tough Guy, rather than Beta Male. Especially in younger years. In later years, it evens out more.
 Nyte2008
Joined: 12/29/2009
Msg: 155
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 6:54:19 AM
^^^ I feel like I'm an Alpha-Beta. But I have some traits that cross Beta-Alpha-AlphaTough so what am I?

I'm 100% confident (Alpha-AlphaTough).
I like to pay for everything since I assume I make more than the girl (AlphaTough but can be argued as Beta?).
I'm not a****(Alpha/Beta).
I chase because I like the thrill of it/challenge (AlphaTough or Beta?).

So where am I?
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 156
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 8:50:30 AM
Hey CR, you should have your own TV show. Your Nice Guy scale reminds me of Dr. Stone's Most Evil scale. You could have reenactments and everything.
 bzchilders
Joined: 7/13/2011
Msg: 157
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 3:03:42 PM
ok theres too things i hate about that nice guys finish last stuff and have had that arguement myself. i used to think the same thing about why the jerks got it all and we didnt but i have also seen the reaction from guys(jerks) like that as it was put. When i talk to a women not as eye candy but as a human being and and someones little girl, and have a casual conversation. The so called jerks as it is put mouths drop and they are dumb struck by the fact that it wasnt a good pick up line or witty comeback that started the conversation. Manners saying yes mam, no mam, taking your hat off and having a calm attitude, holding a door open for women, and the most important thing when you have a conversation look them in the eyes, smile and be yourself. i have done things that supposidedly made me boring by other guys that has started many a conversation guys. reading a book, writing, drawing as worked just as well if not better somedays then a witty pick up line or joke. Have some confidence in yourselves guys if you think your a nice guy that finishes last. shows some courage and do something outside your comfort zone. you may be surprised.
 Debisusanne
Joined: 5/3/2011
Msg: 158
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 3:29:01 PM
But then there is the question.. "is he REALLY a nice guy.. or is he pretending?

Last b/f i had agreed with everything I said.. I swear.. he seemed like he wanted "to be my best friend" We had a great time..We were always smiling. It was so nice not having to debate.. or argue with someone.. Then it HAPPENED...(after 8 months)

I was having a lot of issues.. all my own issues..(children and finances) and i was busy for a while. We never fought nor disagreed..

He messaged me on face book.. that he met someone new.. and we had to talk?

Whoa.. I guess he WASN'T my best friend.. Whoa.. i guess he wasn't a nice guy?

I guess he was just bartering "nice".. for sex.
 bzchilders
Joined: 7/13/2011
Msg: 159
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 3:44:15 PM
this is true with who is pretending and who's not. thats when it comes down to dont let your guard down and pay attention to detail because very small minut things can give it away that he's playing you instead. from my own experience and being around the supossed nice guys who are so nice to you ladies but turn out to be d****. it frustrates the hell out of me as a guy. i have one thing to add though i have tried to warn an aquaintance of mine about one of those type of players and she flat out told me that i didnt know what i was talking about and that he never does it around her. Thats usually when the "YET" part comes into play. and she finds out the hard way. its thoughs guys that give the real real deals or true nice guys a bad name.
 Wh1te_Rabb1t
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 160
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 8:42:12 PM
I can see there is a conversation going down a certain road, and I'm here to put a road block up and make you read the warning signs.

If you have guys in your life that are your friends, and they find a romantic interest and stop spending time with you, it has NOTHING to do with 'pretending', and they are NOT jerks just because they don't hang around with you. You made a choice to be just friends. That means you ALSO made a choice to look elsewhere for your OWN romantic interests. Just because they might have found someone first doesn't mean they are the jerks, it means they found someone first, plain and simple.

You can rant all you want about trading friendship for sex, but sex and intimacy is a HUGE part of a romantic relationship, and that kind of relationship will trump a LOT of friendships, no matter how much you like the guy. If you are suddenly jealous of losing time with him, that's your own damn fault for not seeing him as something more than just a 'buddy'.

I have a female friend who calls me her 'best friend', and we do a lot of stuff together - but she ALSO has a boyfriend that she shares a LOT more with than just her time. I keep reminding her that when I start dating someone I will NOT be around every weekend she is bored and her boyfriend has to work. Who knows how she will react when I start saying 'not available'? All I know is that she's been given fair warning, and I'm not going to feel sorry for her when it happens.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 161
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/14/2011 9:52:28 PM

It was so nice not having to debate.. or argue with someone.. Then it HAPPENED...(after 8 months)


He messaged me on face book.. that he met someone new.. and we had to talk? I guess he was just bartering "nice".. for sex.

No, it wasn't for sex. If he's a boyfriend for 8 months, he's not using you for sex. He sounds like the Passive-Aggressive type. They are very friendly and happy, smiling, etc. Many times they take pride on never being angry and hate confrontation! Great, right? Well, their real emotions, many times of which they don't have a true handle on, they won't show you. They're fake. They're going to be the last person to tell you their interest level is dropping, that things are bothering them, and they are the last people to drop any real hints. They just act happy and like everything's cool -- then BAM! To them it's not a surprise or shocking because they tend to live in just their own reality. They're crazy and very hard to detect -- like a functional alcoholic is. :)
 Reveal1K
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 162
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 1:28:09 AM

I have a female friend who calls me her 'best friend', and we do a lot of stuff together - but she ALSO has a boyfriend that she shares a LOT more with than just her time. I keep reminding her that when I start dating someone I will NOT be around every weekend she is bored and her boyfriend has to work. Who knows how she will react when I start saying 'not available'? All I know is that she's been given fair warning, and I'm not going to feel sorry for her when it happens.

So in other words, she better dump her BF for you before it's too late?
lol she's already got a BF, and I doubt she'd give 2 shits about a "friend" who says he won't feel sorry for her when he's not around to be her friend anymore because he's in a relationship. Like you all of a sudden lose your friends when you get into a relationship or something.
Sounds like you're just annoyed that she's with someone already and you can't wait to rub it in her face when YOU get a girlfriend.
 Debisusanne
Joined: 5/3/2011
Msg: 163
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 3:11:13 AM

No, it wasn't for sex. If he's a boyfriend for 8 months, he's not using you for sex. He sounds like the Passive-Aggressive type. They are very friendly and happy, smiling, etc. Many times they take pride on never being angry and hate confrontation! Great, right? Well, their real emotions, many times of which they don't have a true handle on, they won't show you. They're fake. They're going to be the last person to tell you their interest level is dropping, that things are bothering them, and they are the last people to drop any real hints. They just act happy and like everything's cool -- then BAM! To them it's not a surprise or shocking because they tend to live in just their own reality. They're crazy and very hard to detect -- like a functional alcoholic is. :)


Well.. i do have to say.. that you prolly hit that nail on the head CR....

Its "Nice guys" like him.. that make a girl stop believing in Nice guys..

I mean.. you wonder.. if anyone is being nice.. just to be nice? what do they want from you?
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 164
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 3:49:01 PM
There are people out there that will help out just help out with no expectation of anything in return. No everyone wants something from the other person, it's a good deed, being a generous human being. Apparently that is now frowned upon.

Gimme a break.
 Texan_Gal
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 165
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 4:10:17 PM

Nice guys actually always finish first....

Definitely in my book.
 Debisusanne
Joined: 5/3/2011
Msg: 166
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 4:42:29 PM
actually the last4 men i have dated.. were 3/4 nice guys.. the pretend nice guy... blah patooey on him.

I decided at one time.. to find a TRUE nice/good guy.. i would have to volunteer.. THATS where the good guys MUST spend their time!..

so, i signed up for Habitat for Humanity. and I enjoyed the work. BUT... all the good guys who volunteered .. were married.. blah...

then my first b/f after that.. i asked him to volunteer WITH me for Habitat.. im like.. hey.... lets do SOMETHING important together.. and he said.. UH.. no..I'd rather get paid when i work..what a butthead!!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 167
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 6:27:38 PM

Well.. i do have to say.. that you prolly hit that nail on the head CR....

I had an ex of 8 months who was like that, no lie. It's a type of Passive-Aggressive which is scary; especially if you're really close to them and are an observable person... can be like the twilight zone - lol.

ts "Nice guys" like him.. that make a girl stop believing in Nice guys..

The reason I said the above is because it's not a male/female thing -- it's a people thing. It's a behavioral condition that some people have to that extreme that isn't really about the Mr Nice Guy thing, because that level of PA isn't found too often with such a strong Mr Nice Guy/Girl in the front and under the radar a very different person.

if anyone is being nice.. just to be nice? what do they want from you?

Well, sure -- we all do to some degree. People walking by on the street. A co-worker you run into every few days in a break room for a minute. Stuff like that. But some people take it to a higher extreme, where you're in a relationship, and not just an acquaintance or someone you went on 1 date with.... where they hide their issues & emotions. Many have been taught that anger and upsettedness is bad... they don't like confrontation, and to them it's as little as any level of awkwardness in which they're very sensitive to. Why not just be cheerful all the time? It makes them cheerful, too... much the same laughter by itself makes people a bit happier and cheerful. But it just gets warped into the way they deal with issues. It becomes their way of dealing with things, and it can help manipulate things and you, when need be, to get what they want or to have things flow the way they want them. Do angry people get their way? No. Great -- be cheerful no matter what (hiding any other emotions) -- cheerful people get their way. :)
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 168
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 6:43:00 PM

Well, sure -- we all do to some degree.

I'm calling bull on this.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 169
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 7:19:07 PM

Well, sure -- we all do to some degree.

I'm calling bull on this.

How so? We all will be nice for the sake of being nice to someone. Being nice in body language and cheerfulness, when mingling or what-have-you. Being nice & cordial to strangers, virtual strangers, etc is being nice, well, for the sake of being nice. You don't have to be doing it to cheer them up... it can be out of habit or due to that you're having a great day and it just flows off ya.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 170
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 7:22:14 PM

How so? We all will be nice for the sake of being nice to someone. Being nice in body language and cheerfulness, when mingling or what-have-you. Being nice & cordial to strangers, virtual strangers, etc is being nice, well, for the sake of being nice. You don't have to be doing it to cheer them up... it can be out of habit or due to that you're having a great day and it just flows off ya.

I misunderstood. I thought you were going the direction of no one is just nice to be nice, and always wants something in return.

As you were.
 macongtr
Joined: 11/9/2010
Msg: 171
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 7:29:16 PM
I got some interesting advice - OK, it was more of a direct putdown, but we learn from stuff like that, do we not? Damn right we do. Anyway, regarding nice men striking out:
"Why do men assume we should have sex with them because they're nice when there's nothing attractive or interesting about them, and when they're only putting on a facade of being nice to get sex?"

I was upset of course, but honestly, this is solid advice. I wish someone had told me this when I was in my 20s, or hell, when I was in college. I'd have had a much happier and more satisfying love/sex life. I'm an old guy now, at least society sees me as elderly at 43, but it's never too late to try and be less nice and more interesting - whatever that means. I'll have to see a doctor about being more attractive.
 Wh1te_Rabb1t
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 172
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/15/2011 7:56:26 PM

I have a female friend who calls me her 'best friend', and we do a lot of stuff together - but she ALSO has a boyfriend that she shares a LOT more with than just her time.



So in other words, she better dump her BF for you before it's too late?


If you read my message in the context of the response to the previous message,I was just emphasizing the point that you can't get angry about a friend choosing romance over friendship. I know she's got a boyfriend, and I don't think she's going to be traumatized as much as some other posters online who apparently start name calling former 'friends' who would rather get a kiss than a hug from their date at the end of the night.
 Aim-9
Joined: 11/13/2011
Msg: 173
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/18/2011 7:46:02 AM
I don't think good guys finish last or first, it all depends on the person your talking to and other characteristics of that person such as confidence and overall personality.

You could be the best looking guy in the world, but have the personality of an ironing board. I would say on average though confidence in combination with being a "nice guy" gives you a much better chance, than being a nice guy and a doormat.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 11/1/2011
Msg: 174
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/18/2011 10:19:06 AM
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” – Plato

I cannot name a single lover or crush of mine who was anything BUT showing kindness at the time that I met him. They had other issues, but in the beginning, these guys were each my hero, and they had been heroes for women before and since. And they have been liars and cheats and man-children and losers and negative and hateful and addicts and alcoholics (I am including crushes here, not just my handful of exes) and the bottom line is that every one can be anything to anyone at various points in their lives.

WHY do the bad boys get laid more? THEY MAKE THE MOVE BEFORE THE NICE GUYS DO. they do it with confidence and assertiveness.

A wimpy wishy washy "move" is NOT a move, not complimentary, not telling the girl that you really want her, not showing the confidence that encourages her, not even intriguing.

Then there are the rapists..... find middle ground.

So be all that is kind, if that is who you are. WHY? because the woman who finds that appealing will be a woman who appreciates that in you. I mean, why would you even WANT a woman who only likes bad boys? She would never appreciate you, would look down on you, would run or cheat as soon as the bad boy made his move, and he would.

The woman who appreciates kindness will be mature and kind and love you for who you are. But noooooo the nice guy doesn't want her, he wants the woman who wants bad boys so all he sees are that kind of woman, so he whines incessantly about it, but isn't it the pot calling the kettle black? If these "nice guys" who snub the nice girls (is that a nice thing to do???) for the bad girls who chase after the bad boys the same as the women they complain about?

IF YOU ARE GROWN UP ENOUGH TO WANT KINDNESS to give it and get it, then just BE it and you will attract it. And make the move knowing you could get shot down, but you fail 100% of the time if you make no move at all, and as Confucious says,

Do it, but do it with your whole heart, or don't do it at all.
 punkin1971
Joined: 10/29/2009
Msg: 175
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 11/19/2011 12:43:05 PM
I can honestly say for me this is true but i didnt know how to put it until I read this..Truth is that women(in my case) want a nice guy that they have that "gut level attraction to". When they dont have that attraction it is hard to commit because they know its not there. In many cases it is possible that getting to know a guy can create that attraction.
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