| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 1:16:26 PM | Blondeamazon....The laws in Canada are not that simple ( as per my last post )...it is NOT legal for an adult to have sex with a 14 year old !!!
It is legal for two 14 year olds to have sex, or a 14 and 15 year old...up to a 17 year old...after that, it is statutory rape.
Although I don't want my 14 year old to have sex, I also don't think that two young teens should face charges or jail time if they do. 14 is the age of consent only in relation to the age of the partner they are having sex with. If that parter is over 17, they can face charges. | |
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rocboy
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Joined: 10/19/2005
Msg: 52 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 2:15:23 PM | if someone is 18 or older it is possible (and likely in most cases) that they face charges if they engage in sexual activities with someone aged 14-17. when the relationship must be "exploitative" in nature, charges are possible.
exploitative includes pornography, prostitution, being in a position of authority, casual relationships (including meeting over the internet) but it does not include a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 3:26:38 PM | Sorry Taurus, but having sex with a minor has nothing to do with color, race or religion.
Black, white or purple, this guy screwed up and crossed the line.
Nor does whether or not it was consentual. A 15 year old is not legally able to give their consent...therefore it is a mute point.
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I agree it should BE a moot point.Yet I am not the one making any major decicions concerning this case.Unfortunately racism is still alive and well in the 21st century.The parents of this girl,or anyone else that may have an influence and vested interest in this case might not be so tolerant.Old prejudices die hard. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 3:43:35 PM | The main thing that bothers me about this kind of thing is not really him losing his career or even a little jail time.He's a smart guy,he knew what he was doing and he knew the consequences of his actions.What bothers me is that in the state of Florida,he now must register as a sexual predator.Everywhere he moves to,the nieghborhood must be alerted that there is a sexual predator moving in.His picture now goes on the web.He is marked for the rest of his life.
Someone said "close enough to pedophilia for government work".Well OK,yeah I might agree,I see a 15 year old looking like a 30 year old and coming on to older men,my heart sinks.I know that's a miserable child that needs help and a guy that takes advantage of that has taken leave of common decency.Yet still,it's not the same as the creep who goes after toddlers and pre teens trying to snatch them from the streets.The guy who picks up a minor in a bar who got in on a fake ID or the guy who took advantage of a 15 year old sexually agressive teen with the crush on him is not the same evil. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 4:14:08 PM | Having sex with a minor is stupid,irresponsible and wrong but should a guy,who for all intents and purposes is guilty only of thinking with the little head and not the big head have to face hard prison time?Is the guy who dinks a s lutty 15 year old the same as a child molester?
Yes, he is a child molester, he fits the profile. Who is to judge if this 15 year old is slutty, and what difference does that make? That statement reminds me of the OLD standard defense that lawyers used in rape cases. Just turn the tables and make the victim the wrong doer by bringing up her reputation, asking about past sexual relationships, inquiring about her dress on the night in question, as if she was responsible for the man raping her. Trying to make it seem like the man was the victim. Rape is not about sex; it’s about power and control.
Do 15 year olds have the capacity to think logically and rationally about their actions? There are dozens of studies that have been done that claim the brain of a teenager is still developing, in particular the frontal lobe area. The frontal lobe of the brain is essential for inhibiting impulses, regulating emotion and planning and organizing behavior. The lack of a fully developed frontal lobe may result in making poor decisions and acting impulsively because their brains haven't attained an adult level of organization.
The man in question was a teacher, a person in a Position of Trust; therefore the law holds him to a higher standard, than the average Joe. Is he only guilty of thinking with the little head and not the big head? That in itself is enough to have him thrown out of the school system forever. He was aware of what he was doing, he was aware of the possible consequences of his actions. Should he lose his job? Yes indeed, his actions are a clear indication that he lacks character, morals, and good judgment and should not hold a job where he is in the midst of teenagers. He is indeed a child molester | |
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PA!GE®
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Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 56 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 4:42:36 PM |
Paige, although teh age of consent in Canada is 14...it's not that cut and dry...or disgusting.
An adult man can not have sex with a 14 year old....that is still considered statutory rape.
For those under the age of 18, there is a three year rule, meaning that a 17 year old can sleep with a 14 year old girl and get away with it, a 20 year old can't.
WRONG stacysmom
look here- http://www.womenshealthmatters.ca/centres/sex/faq/
What is the age of consent in Canada?
The age of consent refers to the age that the government of Canada feels a person must be before they can understand and legally consent to sex. In Canada this age is 14.
A 14-year-old can consent to sex with a partner of any age unless an older partner has authority over the younger person (like a teacher) or has paid for sex. Between the ages of 12 and 14, a teen may consent to having sex with someone of the same age (not more than two years older) without a legal penalty for either partner, unless the older partner has authority over the younger one or has paid for sex.
One important exception to the age of consent is the law governing anal sex. For anal sex the age of consent in 18, unless the couple is legally married. Although a recent court decision said this law is discriminatory, it has not yet been changed.
Last Updated: August 31, 2005
I have been trying since I got home to find a really great fact sheet that broke it down great for the under 14's but the fact remains that, unless it's anal sex, 14 IS the age of consent | |
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Tinkle
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Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 57 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 4:45:31 PM | I woulda went to school a lot more if any of my teachers were hot and wanted to have sex. I skipped a whole hell of a lot. Had everyone beat as to how many days I was "sick". I always had teachers that looked like midget Jabba the Hutts and had breath that would singe nose hairs.
I started having sex when I was 14. When I was 15 had sex with someone who was 25. She said I gave her the biggest orgasm she ever had. I was in a band and hooked up with a lot of other females 18 and above. Anyway, laws are quite arbitrary. I know people that were say, 15 having more responsible sex than people I know of in their 20s. Go figure. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 5:03:12 PM | | Under the law, the whether the minor is a slut or not does not matter. She or he is unable to enter into a contract and so CANNOT give permission. The only way I would be sympathetic to your friend would be if the parents gave permission first. He knew she was a minor and so far as I am concerned, once he know that there is little difference between him and a pedophile. Knowing that she is a minor ipso facto means understanding that she CAN neither give consent nor refuse consent. She has neither the emotional nor the intellectual capability, both under the law and most of the time in reality, to grant consent to such acts. She has not matured to he point to understand her own body, much less to decide when to let others enjoy it. That is why she is still a minor. Yes there are exceptions in reality but even they know enough to realize they have to wait for the age of consent or go through legal processes to gain age of consent status. So far as I am concerned your "friend" "raped" a girl. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 5:18:14 PM | Well, this is an interesting Topic. I dont agree with the rational that says its all the dudes fault and he should have known. I'm 27 and recently was working at a pizza joint. A girl walks in and asks if we were hiring. I look at my buddy and say to myself damn i want her working here kinda thing. I walk to the back room browsing over her resume and i read that SHE HAS JUST STARTED GRADE 10!!!!!!! Me and my friend working their at the time both were completely shocked to learn this.. She looked 24 and without a doubt i would have attempted to pick her up in the bar if i saw her their and hadnt have seen the resume saying she was a grade 10 student!!!!
Their is a limit,,, if hes a 40 yr old man he shouldnt be going after girls that look 24 such as this one so their wouldnt be a problem anyways but it really is difficult to tell for guys like myself. I met a girl on another dating site and she looked like she couldnt even pull of 14 yet she was 23. Whats a guy like myself to do if i walk into a bar and try to pick up this type of girl who came into dominos ... Include the question of how old you are and then ask her to come with me down to the police station so she can be tested by the lie detector??? Not happening, LMAO.
Theirs no ****ing way i should be at fault in a scenario like this so long as she is consenting. Shes in the bar, an illegal place for her. If anything she should be charged for deception and trespassing.
Its party our societies fault as well. Gee, he's older and can take care of me.. Maybe if our society didnt place so much importance on money and good jobs, etc girls wouldnt be thinking like this. i'm not a father yet but i've heard some things that are said from fathers to daughters. Is he a gentlemen, does he treat you right, does he have a good job. So naturally these young girls are mystified by the thought. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 5:23:34 PM | She looked 24 and without a doubt i would have attempted to pick her up in the bar if i saw her their and hadnt have seen the resume saying she was a grade 10 student!!!!
Well technically, by Canadian law... you need to prove 'intent' before a criminal offense can be prosecuted.
It would be up to the prosecution to prove that you knew she was underage or at least took considerable steps to determine her age. If she had say been in a bar, you might use the fact that all the patrons had shown ID to prove they were over the age of 19 thus you had a reasonable expectation that she would be 19. Then again, Grade 10 = 15yrs old which would be legal unless you were in a position of authority.
I just hope you get to know girls a little more than for 5 minutes before you do the hunkabunka. Generally you can figure out quite quickly if someone is older than 14. It's not rocket science. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/24/2005 10:31:48 PM | | What are high school kids doing in bars? Why aren't their ignorant parents watching them? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 6:39:53 AM | The general consensus on this thread is pretty much where I figured it would be.Women naturally are having no sympathy for the man.That's to be expected as women are the nurturers of the world and this is seen as akin to child molestation to them.Men,especially younger men see themselves getting caught into a trap and are more sypathetic.I dunno,I think culture has alot to do with it.In some countries age of consent is 12 or 14,others it's 21.I still maintain that in many ways,North American culture tries to prolong childhood too long.In Germany for example 14 to 16 is considered "youth" and certain responsibilities rest with the young person.Education has much to do with it as well.In spite of the old sexual revolution,N.America still holds some mystique over sex; the lack of information to many kids is still a problem.
I have an old friend who grew up in Budapest in the 50's.He said by the time a kid was 15,he had the equivalent of a US high school diploma and some college.He could fluently speak three languages,had enough job skills to survive virtually anywhere and was responsible enough to hold down school,community service (not the wimpy a ss communtiy service kids do in USA,he shovelled coal at the train station and operated a slow plow)and military training(required by the government,he would later use that same training against the communist government when he joined the resistance at 16).As far as sex was concerned,it was "no big deal" as he described it.Sexual activity was niether encouraged nor discouraged but rather seen as a natural part of human life.He said they learned to play responsibly, but he says,there was so much to keep busy at,you didn't have too much time to do irresponsible,stupid things.I sometimes wonder if most of this trouble with kids is that they have way too much time on their hands and too little responsibility.As a result N.America leads the world with the number of dysfunctional adults who can't manage life's basics. | |
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Phresh
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Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 63 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 6:57:19 AM | i think certain things should be case by case with the judge acting with common sense. was there a relationship there? did the parents know of a relationship? does the girl have a history? (those not applying in this case tho)
this guy, because of his roll in the school is obviously guilty. but heres my questions... where did they have sex? on school grounds? did he take her home? in a car? did other girls know what was going on? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 8:21:47 AM | where did they have sex? on school grounds? did he take her home? in a car? did other girls know what was going on?
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I don't know how much of a relationship they had,but I do know that they had sex three times (at least that's what he admitted to)and it was in a nearby hotel.As far as the other kids knowing when we were setting up our live shot in front of the school,some kids asked us what we were doing there and we told them.Some of the kids said they were not surprised.
I agree it should be judged on a case by case basis.This guy doesn't deserve to get off scot free,but I don't believe that he's a pedophile and I do not believe the girl is guiltless.Both of them need some type of counseling imo. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 11:25:15 AM |
This guy doesn't deserve to get off scot free,but I don't believe that he's a pedophile and I do not believe the girl is guiltless
No, he is not a pedophile, he is a child molester, and there is a clinical difference.
Pedophilia, which is a psychological disorder, is a distinct sexual preference for pre-pubescent children
Child molesters can be defined as someone at least five years older than the child, male or female, who experiences any type of sexual contact with someone who is under the age of 18.
Child molesters pick, choose and groom their victims. They have a methodical plan. They are masters of manipulation, not only with children, but also with adults. He is in a position of trust, and the law automatically holds him to a higher standard than the average Joe. He knew ALL the ramifications of his actions and he proceeded, not once but at least 3 times.
Does he deserve any leniency because she was 15 and knew what she was doing, or because gee whiz, maybe she thought she was in love with this guy, or because they went to a hotel and not in the back seat of a car, or because some friends, knew? . Should she be punished for having sex with an adult that she possibly admired and or looked up too? We don’t know all the details of the case, so we can only speculate. I do not think she needs any punishment, but I do think she is in desperate need of counseling.
Here’s a little scenario.
He’s found guilty, goes to jail, does his time and can no longer hold a job where he would have contact with children. He’s paid his dues, he claims he ONLY did it with one student, he’s learned his lesson.
He gets married, has a family and moves into your neighborhood, and asks your teenage daughter if she could come over and baby-sit.
Is it your right to know that this man has a record as a child molester?
If you have this information, would you allow your daughter to go his house to baby-sit? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 11:35:11 AM | s it your right to know that this man has a record as a child molester?
If you have this information, would you allow your daughter to go his house to baby-sit?
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Point 1:Yes,the neighborhood may have a right to know,but in this info age,so too will self styled racist vigilante types who want to burn down his house and castrate him.I covered a case where that happened.
Point 2:Maybe,I know the guy and once I knew more about his present situation and such,I might allow it,I might not.Depends.
We can only speculate about the scenario.In all fairness not all of the scenarios between older guys and teen girls go the way you or the experts describe.I myself have had 16 year olds come on to me big time.I blow them off big time,everytime.They have all the maturity and experience of a 30 year old barfly.Sad but true.Who's to say this wasn't the case and who's to say he's not the one who fell for her?How do we know she didn't have the ulterior motives?Like you say,we can only speculate.I've seen some of these girls use their sex appeal to trap a male teacher into certain favors (grades or privalages)and then hang the guy out to dry when he can't or won't reciprocate.Like you say,we can only speculate. | |
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Phresh
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Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 67 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 11:36:14 AM | good point. we do have that right to know and no i probably wouldnt let my daughter go lol
how old was this guy anyway? | |
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Phresh
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Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 69 | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 11:53:32 AM | As far as him being a registered sex offender, maybe we should make it easier for people to identify him, we could tattoo a number on the inside of his arm that way everyone would know what kind of a person he is
So much for paying your debt to society if you don’t want them anywhere near your daughters then take the reasonability and use your tax dollars to support them in jail for the rest of there lives. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 11:59:50 AM | | no these laws arent outdated and are there for a reason. although these young women might look mature enough to have sex you're forgetting the main reason for these laws. these young women are not mentaly or emotionaly mature enough to be having sex and all the implications that come with it. do you really want to see a country filled with 15 year old mothers who arent mature enough to care for their children? not to mention the emotional and mental effect early parenthood will have on them | |
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rocboy
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Joined: 10/19/2005
Msg: 72 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:16:54 PM | | plus the way our society works, they'd have no means of supporting themselves and their children... unless they all dropped out of high school, but even then they'd have low paying jobs and it would be difficult for them to spend time with their children. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/29/2005 6:23:26 PM | Here's another twist to the story.Just to the south of us here,another teacher,a woman was just convicted of having sex with a 14 year old boy.She gets 3 years of HOUSE ARREST.In recent years we're hearing more about these female teachers having sex with their underage male students,yet compared to their male counterparts,they get a slap on the wrist.What's fair about that?Is the male teen who has sex with his teacher just not quite as damaged as the female student?What are we basing that on,the old double standard that we all hate so much?Is the kid undamaged because he's a guy and his friends will all be giving him high fives and saying,"You the man" while the female student who has sex with a male teacher is reviled by her peers as a "s lut?"Flawed thinkig if you ask me and cerainly NOT justice.If it's wrong for one gender,it's equally wrong for the other.The male kid will suffer every bit emotionally as his female counterpart,it just may not be as visible yet.As many on these forums have stated,the male may suffer emotional detachment during sex as a result of his trauma.If males suffer sexual emotional detachment in sex as a result of exposure to porn,casual sex and other "sexual sins",then certainly the action of this female teacher with this male child is every bit as damaging to him as what my friend did this female child and deserves equal punishment in my opinion.In fact,issue for issue a good lawyer may find more mitigating circumstances in my friend's case,then this Tampa woman's case.
Should the punishment be the same for each gender in this crime?More importantly,where were these hot babe teachers with taste for adolescent flesh when I was in school? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/30/2005 7:30:42 PM | Here's another twist to the story.Just to the south of us here,another teacher,a woman was just convicted of having sex with a 14 year old boy.She gets 3 years of HOUSE ARREST.
Compared to Mary Kay Letourneau, she did get a slap on the wrist. | |
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