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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/19/2005 10:48:44 PM | | ^^^ Yikes, well at least you've got it settled in your own mind, however you can't legally marry these extra gals here, how about a move to Saudi?? | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 7:40:54 AM | how about a move to Saudi??
They'd sure love us being that we practice very devotedly the Jewish Religion, we would fit in there really well lol. But we could move to Holland, it has become legal to do so there, on the other hand scriptures state that if man's law conflicts with Yahweh's law, man's laws are null and void.
Steve & Kara
PS What Holland has done, we feel sure the rest of the world will follow doing as well. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 7:52:27 AM |
King of the wives : if polyjimmy was so acceptable to God why did Abraham wait so long to get a second wife?? It could'nt have taken him long to figure that Sarah was not going to give him offspring......
Possibly he was a little nervous about bringing a second woman home, I think the key is Sarah willingly gave Hagar to him, this I think is the key issue, can you imagine the brouhaha if the 1st wife was unwilling to have her husband be with another woman. I know many women today who would rip apart their husbands if he even though about having another woman.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 11:04:22 AM |
the other hand scriptures state that if man's law conflicts with Yahweh's law, man's laws are null and void.
And which of Yahwehs laws state you can have more than one wife?? Paul in the NT says christians are to obey the authorities, which in the west means you can have only one wife..The Decalogue ( the law given by God) does not say thou shalt have more that one wife. What you people are doing is mixing law and customs of some people in the bible.. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 11:59:42 AM | [the other hand scriptures state that if man's law conflicts with Yahweh's law, man's laws are null and void.]
=======================
BIBLICAL POLYGYNY IS "***NOT***" ILLEGAL IN THE USA.
I"ll give an example and then explain.
If, in the USA, 50 gay men were to decide to buy a building, and call themselves "partners", and all move in together and have big orgies every night, that would be perfectly legal and probably would even be a big happy celebration for the news media. They might even be considered heroes.
But if one man decides he wants to have an extra 1, 2, 3 or more wives, then he would be considered an evil pervert.
This shows that the world of right and wrong is flipped upside down. It's completely the opposite of the Bible, and the rules that are supposed to be followed.
It's not illegal to have more than one wife in the US, many women and men have more than one husband or wife.
All a person needs to do, is just be sure that they don't have a Government issued Legal marriage License on paper. It's not illegal for a man and two or more women living in one house, and the only time there is a conflict with the laws of the land, is if he tried to register more than one of them as his wife. So it's simple, there's not conflict with the laws of the land. Just don't try to have more than one marriage license at a time, but you can still make your oaths of commitement with as many wives as you want, and as many want to with you.
Regarding why Abraham "waited so long", I thought that I had already explained that. You might need to go back and read it again, but the fact is, that we don't know how many wives/concubines he had. He may have had 500 already before he had the son of "the promise", through Sarah.
Dr TePeSeRaTiOn | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 12:08:59 PM |
PS What Holland has done, we feel sure the rest of the world will follow doing as well.
I must say I'm surprised to hear this from Steve & Kara. Er, umm, ah, does this mean legal prostitution and soft drugs are on their way as well? | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 12:21:26 PM |
BIBLICAL POLYGYNY IS "***NOT***" ILLEGAL IN THE USA.
I"ll give an example and then explain.
Its more than an explanation, its a justification for the way you want to live.. Give me a quote from the bible laws, Moses or othewise where it says you can legally marry more than one wife... Genesis states " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife" and they shall be one flesh." no mention here of wifes plural.. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 1:01:50 PM | You won't find any reference to any type of "legal or illegal" marriage in the Bible. Marriage is not meant to be a government institution, just the same as school and education shouldn't be dictated and handled by the gov.
However, what you will find, is that during a period of time, the only paper related to marriage, was called a "bill of divorcement", which was when a husband was allowed to divorce a wife, and he had to give her a piece of paper which then proved that she was allowed to have a new husband. That right to divorce was revoked, and reversed, and things were returned to their original status, of no divorce, when Jesus came and returned things to their original, regarding marriage. So there is no Biblical place to find marriage being legally sanctioned by any human institution, because marriage is between man, woman/s and God.
Regarding that particular passage that says that a man would cleave to his wife and they would be one flesh. That is exactly right. When a man and his wife come together, they become one flesh. You have to keep in mind the spiritual parallel here. Each individual Christian believer, must become one spirit with God, and He has many millions, maybe billions of spiritual mates/wives/subjects/sons/daughters.
A male is not the same as a female. He is made different, he is made in the Image of God. Woman was made from a part of man. She is made to serve him. A man can have many help-mates. God has many millions of servants. There is a connection there. You might be incorrrectly equating male and female as being designed and limited in the same ways.
"he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh'" (1 Cor.6:16, NIV; cp. Eph.5:31). Thus if a man unites himself with a prostitute he becomes "one flesh" with the prostitute. We see that a man may technically, therefore, become "one flesh" with whoever or whatever he engages in the act with. It's more of a question of what is clean or not clean. Within marriage, to become one flesh with a husband/wife/s is fine and good. A man can be one flesh with a goat, but that's not allowed. A man can be one flesh with a thousand wives, just like Solomon, and since it is within the marraige covenant, between man/God/woman, then it is perfectly pure and HOLY.
As a side note. Another way of looking at it from some views on the "one flesh" subject, is that being one flesh might indicate the result of male and female mixture which results in a baby being born. That produces an offspring which is the combination of that man and woman, which would truly make them "one flesh" by having a flesh creation which is made between them.
TePeSeRaToR | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 1:17:40 PM | I see that you mentioned Ephesians so I'm assuming you take note of whats written in the NT..
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. It is he who is the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:31 "That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh."This is a great secret, but I am talking about Christ and the church.
Now using these scriptures one would conclude that though the church is made up of many members (both male and female) it is only one church. Is christ married to more than one church?? If christ is only married to one (the bride of revelation), then this is the only true biblical pattern for our marriages.. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 1:18:08 PM | 2Sa 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
2Sa 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's **WIVES*** into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and #####IF THAT HAD BEEN TOO LITTLE, I would MOREOVER have given unto thee such and such things.#####
2Sa 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
This story, gives a very clear example of good and bad related to marriage. God told David, that the wives that he had given to him were a gift. If David had wanted more then he only had needed to ask for it. Meaning if he had wanted more wives, then God would have been happy to give it to him.
Since King David decided to take the wife of another man, then he was commiting adultery. So God not only punished David, but he also punished his WIVES. The whole family was punished for the sin of their headship. God did not punish all of Davids wives, but he only caused 10 to be violated. Then King David did not divorce those wives, after they were raped, but he "put them away". They were still his wives though. So even after King David did the sin of adultery and murder, God still did not take his wives away from him, and even went to the next step which was to cause the wife who he had stolen, to bear the Prophet and wisest man who ever lived, Solomon.
My opinion is that it was probably meant to be for David to have Bathsheba as a wife, but it was not in the right time, and he tried to make things happen in his own time. A prophet is predestinated to be born, and Solomon was meant to be born through David, by Bathsheba. David probably had the understanding, desire and perception that Bathsheba was supposed to be his wife, but instead of waiting to let God arrange that, David took matters into his own hands, which resulted in the punishment to him and many of his wives.
I hope I was thorough in answering your questions.
ThOrOuTePeS | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 1:47:43 PM | Actually there is a law in regards to this, if your brother dies you are to take his widow to wife. How are you able to do this if you are already married? Yahweh abhors divorce and so you wouldn't be divorcing your wife to fulfill this law.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 1:55:18 PM | [I see that you mentioned Ephesians so I'm assuming you take note of whats written in the NT..]
lord TePeS says:
The OT and NT are like the two wings of an eagle. You need both to be able to fly. They're not in opposition to each other, they only balance each other out.
[Now using these scriptures one would conclude that though the church is made up of many members (both male and female) it is only one church. Is christ married to more than one church?? If christ is only married to one (the bride of revelation), then this is the only true biblical pattern for our marriages..]
This is exactly correct. Christ is married to a many membered "bride(*Lambs* book of life)" They are all ONE in HIM. As long as they are IN HIM.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of his wife ***AS Christ is the head of the church.*** It is He who is the Savior of the body.
The parallel is exactly right on target. Husband is head of his "WIFE". Singularly mentioned. And Christ is head of his of the "CHURCH". Singluarly mentioned. We are all very aware that the "Church" has many members, because God is a polygamous(spiritually by nature) God. He is capable of that. Each person doesn't have their own individual God. He is able to be God over everyone. He made man to be able to be capable of being over many also(physically polygamous in nature). That's called Patriarchy.
In fact, the original word in the language, does not differentiate between wife or wives. It can be either plural or singular, but I don't like to get into original translation wars. There are too many ways to show the facts without getting out the microscope. But by getting out the microscope, and really breaking things down, the facts of what i'm saying are much more profound. Most people wouldn't have the interest to get into those things, and the audience would fall asleep.
King David and Solomon or any other man who has more than one wife, is ONE with those wives, and they are united into one-ness by one husband. That is how they are one with each other, but only as long as they are one with the husband. The Church members are of the same body, owned by God, and the wives are each owned by their husband. This goes even more into an ownership issue.
A person will be owned by someone. Spiritually or physically. They have a choice. The trend now days though is the "lukewarm(Laodicean)" way of approaching marriage and Christianity. People like to be able to go from one "husband" to the next, or one version of God, to the next. Women mostly dont like the idea of being the "property" or owned by their husband. Same with many lukewarm Church members. They don't want to accept the FULL truth and be fully owned(in submission), to the real truth and facts of who the HUSBAND is.
Basically, as I keep saying, female and male is an example of Christ and the Church. He made a duplication of the relationship, here on earth. When you can see a group of women behaving properly and cooperating and co-existing together peacefully, under the headship of their shared husband, then you will see exactly what God had in mind for how he wishes for all of mankind to behave when they relate to HIM. Instead of breaking off into diferent groups and saying "He's our Husband and not yours, etc. Or we know Him better than you or etc. Everyone knows HIM at different levels, but He should still be their "spiritual" Owner/Ruler/King/Husband, individually.
It's like a pyramid. on the Bottom, widest numerically is children, the next step up is the wife or wives, and then next up is the husband, always getting narrower up toward the top. Then the very top of the pyramid is the head of the man which is God. That's the heirarchy of Judeo-Christian family structure which God established on this earth and those who Wrote the BIBLE, understood this, and that's why they incorporated this into their own lives. They were not Ignorant, and anyone who calls the writers of the BIBLE ignorant is a fool. The writers of the Bible were extremely intelligent and close to God throughout their lives. God cannot be close to individuals who are doing things that He hates.
Dr TePeS | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 2:04:12 PM |
does this mean legal prostitution and soft drugs are on their way as well?
very possibly so, soft drugs are tolerated in Holland, they also legalized prostitution last year. But then so have we here in the US, at least in Las Vegas, in two brothels. There has been much talk about legalizing both marijuana and prostitution as this would be a very large industry that would be able to be taxed.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 2:06:30 PM | This is very interesting, becasue it is designed this way because by keeping family and marriage in close association with each other, the wealth of the family is maintained and protected.
When Roman Catholocism began breaking up families and forcing their priests and nuns to leave their families and sign over their properties to the "church", they were going in direct opposition to the Bible. Just the same as when they disallowed cousins to marry each other. There is no Biblical law against cousins marrying. God is very very family oriented. He does not want His people to be poor and destitute on this earth. If people truly followed His ways and provisions which He set up and established for the highest level of fulfillment for man and woman, then all those who truly follow HIM, should be wealthy. (if they can find others who do the same, that's the hard part now.)
If there are times of extreme persecution, then of course that would be nullified, such as after the death of Christ. That's when Romanism started going after the family, and weakening it and limiting its ability to retain and build independence and wealth. That's the root of all of this. The socially engineered political control over keeping families from gaining true independence. Only the talented or unusually intelligent are able to make it to be truly free, and independent in life, and maintain their integrity of living a clean and honest Christian life. Otherwise, it is very difficult for the average person, and in some ways impossible, to dig out of the pit of poverty. There is a solution, and it's called Christian plural marriage.
Let me know if I've missed, or seem to have missed any points or questions.
DRTEPES | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 2:19:14 PM |
If people truly followed His ways and provisions which He set up and established for the highest level of fulfillment for man and woman, then all those who truly follow HIM, should be wealthy.
Thats a pretty poor argument, there are plenty of dishonest and godless people who are wealthy. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 2:44:57 PM | | That is the point. In life, the more honest you are, and true to Christianity, the harder it can be. The easier way is to be a liar and a cheater and thief and step on whoever you have to, to get ahead, and use people. You missed the point. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 2:45:57 PM | | have you run out of excuses to deny the validity of Biblical plural marriage? | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 3:02:34 PM | | Not really I gave you the illustration of Jesus being married to ONLY ONE church you just "wiggled" your way around it..Nothing I would say will convince you otherwise. You have not convinced me with your examples of Kings and others having multiple alliances with women ( I won't use the term marriage). I think further research into what was the customs for "everyday" people in Jesus' time would be more fruitfull though, as I'm sure they had a good idea what was a marriage..Now maybe if you could proclaim yourself King of somewhere than maybe you would be fitting the bible type of say King David and others.. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 3:19:20 PM | One Church, with many members. It says right there that it's the same as a natural relationship. You have to do some serious wiggling to get out of facing the fact of it after all the explanations I've given you.
Regarding the customs of the day, that was a time of Israel being ruled over by a corrupt and degenerate government. The Romans were monogamous, and enforced it. That's like saying that it's wrong to make bricks without straw, because the Egyptians forbade the Hebrews from using it to make bricks.
The Hebrews were polygamous, even while in Egypt, the average family had a minimum of around 30 to 40 children. They were becoming too numerous and bordering on outnumbering their slave masters. I know about the culture that was present during the time of Christ. Given the fact that you raise the issue, I would assume that you would be somewhat knowledgable about it, and if you are, then you would know that it's relevant, because they weren't in compliance with Jewish culture at that time anyway.
That's what they were waiting for their messiah for. To be returned to their original ways.
That's what He's going to do. And polygyny just happens to be one thing that will become once again standard and normal.
It would be an honor to be considered on the level of such people as King David and others..... They were operationg under only penalty of law, and didn't have the luxury of a Holy spiritual indwelling which gave them greater ability to follow the law. They did the best they could, and that's why they had animal sacrifices, because they couldn't be perfect. King TePeS has OvErRuLeD | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 3:33:54 PM | One Church, with many members.
Many members includes both male and female, you could use that as an argument for gay marriage...I do feel you are missing the point of the One Church, the Bride (not brides) for the sake of your arguments....What you are doing is missing the "types" of which scripture speaks....
That's what they were waiting for their messiah for. To be returned to their original ways.
That's what He's going to do. And polygyny just happens to be one thing that will become once again standard and normal.
Then we had better figure a way to increase the number of females in the population ..for your dream to come true.
Not Overuled at all at all | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 4:02:43 PM | This is what I have found on the net so far regarding the Jewish customs..
http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/08-index.html
makes some interesting observation...by the way did your get yourself circumcised yet?? No skin off my ..... just interested how far you have gone with the OT | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 5:18:49 PM | ^^^^^ What? you just create this profile today or what? You should read the posting rules as excessive capitals is frowned upon...
As for my arguments they stand the test of reasonable biblical interpretation.. Again I say the One church is a type of the the One wife... Bride and bride groom, Christ and his church ( singlular)..you misunderstand if you wish, but at least be consistent..
CONCERNING POLYGAMY
ps, get your facts straight thats POLYGYNY we are discussing...there is a difference unless you think a woman can have more than one husband......... | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 5:37:10 PM | POLYGAMOUS .....still fighting the wrong battle here PAW * REX, your argument is quite PAW * RUSS 
PAW * SOLE | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 12/20/2005 5:52:21 PM | Thats what you claim, its just that the arguments so far are very PAW indeed..out of context and based on some questionable practices in the past "that God winked at" to quote Paul..
The parable of the Virgins is just that a parable.. It was not intended to consecrate POLYGYNY.. It is to point out that you had better be ready to meet your maker because you don't know when you are going to meet him.. Even a child can understand these things..
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man comes | |
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