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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/28/2005 10:20:49 PM | You're hilarious xchuck... that wasn't sarcastic, I truly mean it..how come everyone's pics show here but mine doesn't? On the upload image page...did you
check off one of your pics to be the main pic? Thanks for the applause Smiley...checked out your profile pics you are a real cutie | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/28/2005 11:06:27 PM | okay seriously now. I agree with what yur sayin. I am guilty of being one of these guys. I'm not proud of it. I actually don't even think it's true. I am always denying that I'm a nice guy, but people always tell me it's true. But I'm glad I read this because it makes me aware of some things. But now I have something to say about women. You speak of nice guys being liars, I'm saying women are liars too. They say they want a guy who's honest. I've encountered a few of these the past little while. So I was truthful about somethings. Just to see what would happen. I discovered women are nothing but big fat liars. Do you think any of them messaged me back. I problably shouldn't have said as much as I did, but I just wanted to see. chow.  | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/28/2005 11:09:47 PM | Sorry if this shows up as quoting the person above, this is my first forum post so i'm not sure if i'm doing this right.
Red viking is totally my hero today. He said what finally needed to be said and I couldn't have done it any better, and I think alot of the readers aren't getting what he's saying. What he's said doesn't really have anything to do with the "nice guy", and he's not referring to all women, but certainly the majority of women I have known. Every date I have had has felt like i'm at a job interview. The difference is that i'm not being asked questions, the pressure is on me to create and maintain a conversation, impress, and prove myself worthy. There is 0 effort on the other side of the court.
I have never experienced, or heard of a situation from someone I know, where the woman is the first to come out and tell a guy she likes him. Never. Sure, there is flirting, sometimes blatant and obvious, but flirting has lost all meaning to me. Women have flirted with me constantly just to string me along though they have no interest in me. Because of this, i'm always skeptical when a woman appears to be flirting with me. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/28/2005 11:27:53 PM | Be nice fellas LOL, I think the topic is getting too hot ta touch, Red Viking has a point and so do all, I think smiley9 has a good perception as well. I guess on some things we, both female and male, will just have to agree to dissagree on :-)
I too, think that there are players on both sides of this emotional fence and they tend to set a the bar too high for others.
Mars and Venus are always going to be different planets.
I have made many friends through agreeing right at the start to disscuss our wants and desires and then finding that we were not compatible, the honesty from this has brought about a friendship nearly every time.
What's that saying people?
"Lover's come and go, but friends stick around for the long run"
That's about all from me in this thread people, it's getting kinda like a soap opera where no one realy gets laid lol.
Take care all and behave :P
Lee. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/28/2005 11:58:13 PM | Wow more and more generalizations here!
I will say that the biggest thing that many self described “Nice guys” are lacking is their own self esteem and I can’t help you with that, nor can any woman…self-esteem is sexy and that is why most women will go for the “bad guy type”…I will say that the self esteem is the only thing bad boys have going for them although they don’t really appeal to me either, and I will not date an Ass, although so many of you will insist that is what all of us women want….and don't tell me how many woman have shot you down so you have no self esteem left....I for one actually have done my share of the asking and have been shot down many times and taken up on it many times, and had guys treat me nice and had guys treat me like crap, my self esteem rest solely on my shoulders and no one elses.....so the complaint that men have to do all the work is just not true in my case...and you'd be surprised how many guys are not interested if you are not surrounded by drama or if you let them know that you like them and are attracted to them first.....guys can be as fickle as so many women...
The only thing that I dislike in reading a “nice Guy “ profile, is that some of you seem to think that "NICE" should be your top quality and no effort needs to be put into anything else you do or say…that is when it’s boring, you’re not boring because your nice, merely because some of you use if for a shield not to be anything else…no one wants to read a completely bland profile or go on a boring date because you won't have octopus hands, (lets shoot pool or play darts as opposed to staring at each other over snacks) and the top selling point in your profiles tends to be “I’m a nice guy” along with the next negative sentence “But it get’s me nowhere”….that just doesn't do it for any of us and I will almost always go to the next profile when I see that negativity…….
I have sat on dates with nice guys while they poured over their résumé of nice qualities for 30 minutes or more…..you don’t TELL someone how nice you are, you just “Be nice”, that’s what makes us swoon!. I want to hear about the time you took your cousin “snipe” hunting and how you laughed until smores came out your nose, not how you helped three old ladies cross the street this afternoon......
We actually expect our guys to be nice, at least I do, ….(I would expect any man I’m involved with to help an old lady across the street if she needed, for crying out loud) so if that is all you have to advertise yourself with, you need to go get a consultant on the profile thingy…LOL
The truth is many of us woman aren't the ****y type and that is not what we're going for, but you men know that there are so many jerks out there that you aren't putting much more effort into showing us the rest of who you are, simply because you're sure being "Nice" should be enough....
But we do need all the rest that goes with ‘nice’ so how about showing us what we’re missing instead of using that one thing to try and get our attention.....I do not want to read over and over again how Nice you are, because if I meet you and your not nice, there won’t be a second date! LOL Give me something else to go on here…. and yes there are many horrible women out there, don't lump us all together! I am a very nice person and kind hearted but it's not posted all over my profile or listed when I'm on a date...either he can see that for himself or he can't, and therefore telling someone how nice you are, doesn't make one bit of difference...
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 12:14:32 AM | Posted By: xchuck on 11/28/2005 10:05:08 PM
"Only because guys let them, it takes two to tango....there are guys out there that persue superficial play hard to get, worship me gameplaying women all the time...that's why some women are like that...we let them get away with it!! "
XChuck, you could not be more right about that.....guys need to stop chasing after and putting up with those type of women. I'ts amazing that those of us who don't fall into that category and who would never treat guys like that, are the ones without dates or boyfriends while the guys are running behind the ****y Drama queens going 'OK dear, whatever you want dear!"...I don't ever want to be with a guy who would put up with that insulting behavior. Unfortunately for everyone of you who walks away, there are ten more waiting to take their turn being humilitated.
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 12:37:11 AM | Cutematte, redviking and csuguy:
Here’s an opinion:
You guys have HOSTILE 100% across the board negativity flowing through your vains. And that's not to say that you have not met many, many horrible women, but you refuse to be open to the possibility that there might be some of us out there who are not in that category, therefore no woman is going to give you that chance either…
You have made it clear that you completely loath each and everyone of us, so please, by all means date us!!!! ...
I find it astonishing the blatant contrast to what you say in this forum as opposed to the rosy outlook you have on your profiles, and you have the nerve to accuse women of lying and pretending! Get a grip! How about you all close out your profiles and truly give it a rest if we are that disgusting to you, or at least make sure to copy your posts as part of your profiles, so the women you are attempting to lure into a date with you, have a real clue what they are getting themselves in for.........
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 1:08:55 AM | Well, I think it is about time to add fuel to the fire.
When a man sticks up for himself, he is a whiner or a latent jerk. When a woman does this, she is expressing herself and liberated.
RedViking has certainly hit a nerve here. I can see why. Much of his observations aren't solely his own, either. I've had a good chuckle or two when reading about the women who are asking men to put up or shut up. This is old news to us, gals. Men have been told this from day one. Boys are being told they are stoooopid on t-shirts, movies often protray many men as weak and confused, and don't even get me started on the Lifetime Channel. Men have been the target of the blame and shame game for quite a while now. We know this is happening, and are calling you out for it. Why is anyone so surprised when someone finally points on the hidebound hypocrisy in the male-female dynamic when it is clearly obvious? The truth is that many women are heavily timid of criticism, yet have no qualms about dealing it out to men. Men are not always as critical of women, yet take much more than women usually realize. Besides, we're men, right? Aren't we supposed to be made of steel?
You cannot act liberated and traditionalist at the same time. It is not a true emulsion. It cannot mix. It never will. The mere concepts are in contradiction to each other. And yet many women want their men to respect them as individuals under the pretense of equality, and expect chivarly and old fashioned protection in the same breath. They want the old roles of breadwinner and provider while this current culture seeks to decry and even punish men for any misstep in securing those roles. Men have responsiblities. Women have choices. Often at the expen$e of men. Men risk rejection, still pay for dates, have to out manuever the thread of a harassment charge and women can still attract and resist. The clubs are FILLED with the latter. It's a game women invented---while laughing and deriding men who don't live up to a narrow degree of standards, calling them "losers" and "get a life" if they aren't playing the game right. Funny how that works, huh?
I suppose jerks are that why because they sense there exist women who never will be pleased with life in general. "Blah blah blah," they mock women as they blither much ado about nothing, "That's just women." There is a certain rationale about that. If there are women who have ceaseless ingratitude, why bother even trying to meet them halfway? If it gets too thick, they can always dump her and move on to the next one. They've hardened themselves to heartache because they don't always completely commit to someone full out. Not anymore, at least. It is a HUGE risk, and men are usually asked (or demanded) to place all their eggs in one basket with women, that wised up guy isn't going to a be a chump for the Nth time. Women don't normally do this with men. That's why you won't see a lot of personal sacrifice from "jerks." They've learned it hurts too much to get burned, and their values come first. If women aren't going to hold up their end of the bargain, why should he? Think about it.
I will say that the biggest thing that many self described “Nice guys” are lacking is their own self esteem and I can’t help you with that, nor can any woman…self-esteem is sexy and that is why most women will go for the “bad guy type”…I will say that the self esteem is the only thing bad boys have going for them although they don’t really appeal to me either,
What is ever fascinating to me is that even older women will still insist on the stereotype that nice guys are shy and suffering from low self esteem, and if they are not and have a backbone, somehow that makes them very un-nice-like. Why is this such a black and white dichotomy with women? Notice that "bad boys" are still one thing in the terminology---boys. Is there something inherently wrong with a passionate gentleman that stands by his principles? Perhaps so. We hear constantly how men are threatened by this or that from women, but a lone wolf who doesn't bow down to women as a given rule is far more figuratively dangerous to women than your typical "bad boy."
Why?
Because he is not easily manipulated. You cannot call a spade anything other than a spade with him, and any personal injustices against him will be met with resistance. Women don't like them, usually, because they refuse to let go of their own dreams and desires for what women want. "Bad boys"---in reality, the ones they want, are the poseur type. The ones that provide the import of drama and attention women crave.
I never cease to be amused by the claim that men are so insecure if they protest emotional abuse, and women feel they have a right to wield it has a intraphysic weapon if they feel like it. Sorry, it works both ways.
and I will not date an Ass, although so many of you will insist that is what all of us women want….
Clearly, many women have demonstrated otherwise.
But we do need all the rest that goes with ‘nice’ so how about showing us what we’re missing instead of using that one thing to try and get our attention.....I do not want to read over and over again how Nice you are, because if I meet you and your not nice, there won’t be a second date! LOL Give me something else to go on here…. and yes there are many horrible women out there, don't lump us all together! I am a very nice person and kind hearted but it's not posted all over my profile or listed when I'm on a date...either he can see that for himself or he can't, and therefore telling someone how nice you are, doesn't make one bit of difference...
This is perhaps the biggest stumbling block women have with men. They want men to be more than "just nice." Instead of just loving them as human beings, there are ulterior and grave motives to what women want for their futures. Men often give up their dreams in order to secure love with women, for a seriously uncertain path with a woman that may decide one day to divorce him and leave him emotionally and financially crushed. And usually some other man is wanting in line to pick up the slack.
What many men don't understand until it is all too late, is that they aren't always loved and respected for who they are, but rather for what they can do for women. This is the sad commentary on relationships in this culture, but that is the way of things as much as I lament that fact. Women have a large laundry list of what men are supposed to do for them and how the relationship is going to be run. According to their rules. Men who expect to be loved for who they are usually are in for a rude awakening when it comes to relationships with women.
I know tons of men of various backgrounds that are quite romantic and enjoy the usual romantic trappings, but that eventually falls by the wayside. Remember all those times when it was just the two of you, sipping screwdivers, laughing in the park, making good love, crying over sappy films, and going to Thai restaurants? To many men, that WAS the relationship. I could be just fine with that. But that's not all.
Once the romantic phase has passed, women (mostly) feel no guilt about changing the rules to suit them and placing the onus on men if they don't live up to their standards, even if women don't do the same. Women feel they are the gift, and not always have to give, unless there are arbitrary conditions. I'm not saying there should be no conditions, but when women are two-faced, manipulative, and giving off the tonality of "but . . . but . . . two wrongs make a right because I SAID it does!" Don't be surprised if men don't believe you anymore.
Signed,
Just another American man who's had enough | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 6:11:30 AM | Bitter bitter bitter.
Water seeks its own level. If you want to attract better women, you need to start with taking an honest look at yourself and get happy with yourself. Don't like something about yourself. Change it! Keep getting passed over? The common denominator is you!
If you have no self-esteem or are a closet woman-hater...women are going to get a clue and run for the hills when they see you coming.
And for those guys who don't get responses...most times the woman don't find you attractive. It's their friggin perogative to not find you attractive...or find you attractive. And whining about the woman you want who doesn't want you but wants the other guy. Guess what? It happens to all of us! Women, too! The only difference we get back on the dating horse that we fell off and keep going. You're too busy spitting venom to women. Again, negativity. And what's attractive about that? I'll take a guy who can take it on the chin any day over a whiner.
Same goes to women! | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 6:12:17 AM | Some of my friends both male and female aren't happy in a relationship unless they have something to **** about. Many a nice person has come to there lives. Some people aren't happy unless they are treated like crap. I guess they figure they can tame or train a bad boy. Enjoy the hunt and the chase. Nice guys and girls are out there. I think boring can be a safe way of saying I am not rushing into this. I wouldn't be putting my heart on my sleeve after the first date. Lets face it no one likes to be rejected. Better safe than sorry, I guess. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 6:50:50 AM | AndyJP, snagdad, and DarkAngel seem to be about the only ones who've actually wrapped their brains around what I've said before instantly responding "bad bad bad man..."
Smiley- for someone who complains about a guy being "bitter" and needing to look at himself- you're AWFULLY angry, defensive, and attacking in that last post....plus you're bragging about precisely the types of things that are standard issue for most guys and that don't, in and of themselves, get a guy anywhere with women... I mean, good for you about all that stuff, but if you were a guy you'd realize these things are simply the basic requirments to even be considered for a date, not things women are going to actually be atttracted to.
Yes girls, I'm not surprised that you've come out kicking and screaming here after hearing what some guys have to say, this is just what women do when men don't go along with their rules and don't give them what they want to hear.
Sorry for just being a guy who feels that a lot of women aren't worth the price of admission and that everyone would probably benefit in the end from some introspection on these topics by women. But not surprisingly, I'm seeing criticism and defensiveness instead...
That's fine, I'll just keep looking for those rare nice girls who are realistic, unselfish, secure enough in themselves to question their own feelings and motives instead of using "men" as a convenient scapegoat for all their shortcomings, self-doubts, and challenges; who don't expect men to bring most or all of the fun and excitement and entertainment and romance to the table; and are mature enough to hold themselves accountable for their actions and decisions... | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 7:39:39 AM | Every adult is the clear and present architect of his or her own pain.
I take responsability for myself and my dating successes and failures. I wish all people, male and female, would do the same.
I just don't see that happening here. I see a lot of blame being slung into the lap of the other gender.
I am the architect of my own life. If I don't like it, I have the power to change myself. AND ONLY MYSELF.
You do not have the power to change or control another person.
That being said, I want to point out that when you boil a human down, we all want the same thing: to be loved and feel appreciated and like we belong. It doesn't matter if you are male or female.
Can't we build upon this foundation and create a rapport between the genders? Instead of clambering up to a mountain top playing king of the hill to screech at the top of our lungs about our differences? I think we would be making a step forward instead of regressing.
I realize that men and women are different.
I look to myself to change what I need to to become a better person ready for the great guy I know is out there for me. I try to understand men better and try to see where they are coming from.
I don't try to stay the same exact way I am, never acknowledge that I contribute almost everything to my non-success in the dating realm, keep doing the same behavior aka mistakes over and over and expect different outcomes.
How is that productive? | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 7:50:56 AM | I want to Thank some of you guys, cause Now I have to go OUT and BUY a APPOINTMENT BOOK ! Keep this in mind ..." Belief in your unworthiness, will however, Sabotage your Happiness "
I saw what you wrote , Chuck.... That was funny, I don't care who you are, that rite der was Funny ! Have A Great Day .... However, YOU kNOW I WILL ! GIT-ER-DONE ! | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 8:32:10 AM | | I'm not taking sides here....there are jerks in both sexes, i don't think you can put the blame anywhere but yourself if you get taken for a ride by a jerk. Be able to distinquish that you are with somebody that dos'nt give a damn about anybody but themselves and move on. We all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and if your not getting that and you put up with it whether you are in a relationship or approaching someone for a date..who is the one to blame? There are alot of great guys and great girls out there why put up with being treated like a doormat?...get rid of the source of your misery and try to give the next guy or girl some slack because they are not responsible for how ANYONE else has treated you in the past. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 12:54:23 PM | Hi
For all you guys complaining about the fact that you have to do all the running on here, and feel like youre on an audition can i just say, since iv been on these sites iv made every effort to answer peoples mails, be polite, be open to different guys AND i make every effort to message guys that i like the look of, i dont chase but i do make all the effort a MAN would!!! So please redviking, dont judge all of us in the same way, and for your information, ive had more men mess me about on this site than enough, getting them to commit to a date without the usual run up of sexual innuendo and comments like how big is your chest is like getting blood from a stone so SOMETIMES GIRLS need to let the truth be known | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 1:06:09 PM | | I personally don't like "nice guys"...I've found they usually just try too damn hard to please! It makes me uncomfortable, and it also makes me think that they must really be insecure or desperate to try so hard. Can't really say that I like "bad boys" either. I like a guy who is just "himself" with no excuses or apologies. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 1:12:33 PM | | yourdarkangel.....i have to say, although im one of those terrible women u talk about...I ACTUALLY AGREE with a lot of what you say, I as a woman admit to not being perfect, but jeez when i hear how some women treat men i wanna cringe BUT and i say a big BUT...why oh why if men feel like this do i seem to be dateless although i try my best to be an equal partner and make every effort to give as well as receive, when women who are golddigging selfish and domineering seem to have guys hanging off them???? Please answer that one :-) | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 1:14:39 PM | | ^^@Blue Sorceress..I think you may have "nice guy" confused with a "passive guy" who will do anything to please a woman to avoid confrontation. A nice guy in my opinion is someone that is a gentleman and treats women with respect and caring but is nice enough to let a women know when he feels he is being taking advantage of without being abusive. | |
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| Will all the nice guys stop asking why we dont want them!
Posted: 11/29/2005 1:19:18 PM | Wow, ive just read your thread....I SOOOOOOOOOO THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!! CROWN THAT WOMAN!!!!! lol lo I would'nt crown her yet...she started another thread complaining how she lost her boyfriend to her "overweight" sister...maybe her boyfriend was a "nice guy" and that is why she did this thread | |
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