| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:46:49 PM |
Leadership in the church and family, is given to men alone.
Guess that's because the Bible was edited & written by men; next I guess it'll be explained why polygamy means a man can have several wives but a woman can't have several husbands 
No wonder so many people are giving up "organized" religion. You can be very spiritual with no need for "men" overseeing a bunch of ceremonies & your praying.
Btw, since so many here seem to be well versed with the old testament, can someone tell me who Cain & Abel married? | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:01:16 PM | | There is no record of Abel having a wife. He was murdered by his brother Cain. Cain went to the land of Nod and married a woman there. Cain had left the presence of God to dwell in a land of wandering. I anticipate your next question! lol | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:18:54 PM |
I anticipate your next question!
I'm still awaiting your response to the last one:
Right! the law is not void. The laws were given to the hebrews and not the gentiles. Explain this better. It sounds like you're saying something like: The law is still valid, but not for gentiles". Are you trying to say you're not obligated to follow any of the OT? The ten commandments no longer apply? | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:33:56 PM | | Nerdstatus, The laws are meant to show man how he differs from God . The laws are basically a guide for what is right to God. Christ fulfilled the law at calvary. If I sin, I have an advocate in Christ. This is the gospel message. What I can not do, Christ has done for those of faith. Its not really that diffilcult to comprehend. Have you ever heard of the gospel before? | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:04:55 PM |
Nerdstatus, The laws are meant to show man how he differs from God .
Which passage / passages have led you to this conclusion?
The laws are basically a guide for what is right to God.
Which are they – laws or guides?
Christ fulfilled the law at calvary.
Which passage / passages have led you to this conclusion? I don't share that conclusion, and I posted a well thought out explination for why I don't share that conclusion, and I sourced the canon which I used to make that conclusion in Msg: 43
Jesus himself couldn't be any more clear on this issue. OT law is valid for all eternity:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
Matthew 5:17 NAB
You went on to make a (seemingly contradictory) statement, which I asked for clarification on.
Right! the law is not void. The laws were given to the hebrews and not the gentiles. Explain this better. It sounds like you're saying something like: The law is still valid, but not for gentiles". Are you trying to say you're not obligated to follow any of the OT? The ten commandments no longer apply?
You've still not given a clear answer to a simple question: do the old testament laws apply to you or not? Why?
If I sin, I have an advocate in Christ. This is the gospel message. What I can not do, Christ has done for those of faith.
Explain how this is relevant to following (or not following) old testament law.
Have you ever heard of the gospel before?
I presume you mean the canonical texts: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John . If so, then yes, I'm familiar with them. | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:43:39 PM |
Cain went to the land of Nod and married a woman there.
OK but how? "God" supposedly created Adam & Eve, they had 2 sons, 1 son was slain.... where'd Cain's wife come from? Aliens ? | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:45:43 PM |
Which are they – laws or guides?
Maybe it's supposed to be the 10 suggestions, or the 10 reccomendations. And my understanding is that it's supposed to be "Thou shall not murder" not "Thou shall not kill". | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:17:55 PM | Of course they are not 10 suggestions. If I break a law it is sin. Heck if I lust after a person, I sin. A person can obtain forgiveness by repenting and relying upon the work of Christ. Its really quite that simple.
Ok, you know of the gospel books. Do you understand the message of the gospel? If so, what is your understanding? Frankly I feel like this entire thread is an excercise of straining at gnats. | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:38:02 PM |
Ok, you know of the gospel books. Do you understand the message of the gospel? If so, what is your understanding? Frankly I feel like this entire thread is an excercise of straining at gnats.
I know it's a mess of often contrary messages, and filled with numerous inconsistencies & gaps ( such as who did Cain marry ? ). As a set of moral guidelines the Bible can be useful (I doubt many would find fault with the 10 commandments.... altho the first 4 deal with how to worship God. I think "Help those less fortunate than you" would be a much better commandment than # 2 :
"You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments".)
And what's God jealous of??? Maybe he isn't the only god out there ( if you read the 1st commandment, he doesn't specifically say he's the only god, he just says "You shall have no other gods before me" ). | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:19:05 AM |
Of course they are not 10 suggestions. If I break a law it is sin. Heck if I lust after a person, I sin. A person can obtain forgiveness by repenting and relying upon the work of Christ. Its really quite that simple.
I didn't ask you if breaking canon law was a sin. I didn't ask you about Christ's grace, or how it relates to forgiveness of sin. I didn't ask you about repentance. I didn't ask you how complex the process of forgiveness is. I asked you: do the old testament laws apply to you or not? Why?
Frankly I feel like this entire thread is an excercise of straining at gnats.
That's what happens when someone fails (repeatedly) to answer a critical question. Deciding if the OT laws apply to you or not is fairly epic – it's the opposite of trivial.
Do you understand the message of the gospel?
There isn't a “the message” of the gospel other than chronicling Jesus's teachings from 4 different (and often conflicting) perspectives. One of the core teachings was Jesus becoming the conduit between God and humanity, and that he was the last sacrifice. Salvation is only through him (John 3:16).
I know it's a mess of often contrary messages, and filled with numerous inconsistencies & gaps ( such as who did Cain marry ? )
That's canon, but not gospel. Gospel almost always refers to the Gospels of Christ (according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel
As a set of moral guidelines the Bible can be useful
Given the bible condones sexism, rape, slavery and other human atrocities, I could NOT disagree more with this statement. The bible is one of the most unethical pieces of literature of all time. The 10 commandments are some of the least bad, but they're still not very good. Of course, there's three different references to the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:2–17, Deuteronomy 5:6–21, Exodus 34:11–27 ), so... we get “open to interpretation” issues again.
Here's some fun ones:
Exodus 34:14 for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God
Deuteronomy 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me
Really? The all powerful creator of everything is named jealous, and is a jealous God? Even humans can transcend this silly emotion. And, he's holding great great grand children accountable for the decisions of the great great grand parents? I understand the argument that the gospel cancels this out (what some call “grace”), but for how many thousands of years was this policy in place? THIS is the God you think is so awesome?
And, that's just the first commandment.... | |
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| Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 10/27/2009 10:00:22 AM |
As a set of moral guidelines the Bible can be useful
Given the bible condones sexism, rape, slavery and other human atrocities, I could NOT disagree more with this statement.
Not the entire book ( for instance, I think you'd agree that "thou shall not steal" is a good idea). I'm an atheist but still don't steal & this is without the need for a jealous ( of what? I dunno, but apparently he said he's a jealous god) god watching over my shoulder. And Jesus' views on forgiving people is an OK philosophy. | |
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