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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:16:22 AM |
I like Shadowlands saying better
Even if it's objectively false? The evidence (empirical and anecdotal; such as this very thread) suggest that Shadowlands is wrong and it might be more accurate to say that for every "N" women who say you're too short (at "X" height) there are "Z" women who will not; where a decrease in X means an exponential increase in N as Z approaches zero.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 3:11:08 AM |
Even if it's objectively false?
How would you know if it's false? Have you talked to every woman on this planet? I know I haven't. That's my mistake. Seeing from past experience if it was false then half of the ladies who wanted to date me wouldn't been my height or taller. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 4:18:09 AM |
How would you know if it's false? Have you talked to every woman on this planet?
He's saying it's false based on the reaction of SOME women. Shadowlands' numbers may not be based on fact or research, but he was illustrating the point that someone else made earlier. If she's not into you, MOVE ON!! That goes for any person who has another person reject them or be uninterested for ANY reason. We've all been there. I think it's wrong for anyone to bash the ENTIRE opposite gender because they've been rejected. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 5:01:18 AM | "Tainted belief system"?
I compare the "tall preference"  to guys who refuse to date "heavy women",  or want "big breasts",  or they "like legs",  or maybe they "prefer long hair"  .
What is the difference? It is a personal preference. It is in your genetic makeup (for whatever reason) that you are attracted to this type.
I am in the catagory of "I LOVE TALL MEN". My first husband was an inch shorter than me and I outweighed him by 10 pounds. My second husband was 6'2" ,so I have not short men but my preference and what appeals to me is TALL. 
If you   in a pond and catch something you don't want , you throw it back for another chance. Don't just kill the fish .  Just move on.  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 8:18:41 AM |
How would you know if it's false? Have you talked to every woman on this planet?
There have been a few different surveys done on this. More recently ones that have examined preferences on dating sites. Needless to say, if you are an average height male or shorter, you are probably not even showing up in the search results of the vast majority of women (on most dating sites). That is because most sites (POF may be an exception) have you specify an initial set of preferences including height which then becomes that person's default search.
I don't know if the numbers are exponential, but as in most statistics it's a bell curve. The largest numbers of men/women are within a couple of inches of average. If ~60% of women insist on men over 5'10", they've already eliminated ~60% of men (meaning at least one in three of those women won't find a guy of the height they want, 60%+ of women going after 40% of men). At 6' you've eliminated 85-90% of men (that couple of inch difference I suppose is similar to exponential). And I'd argue the odds for women with those height requirements are even worse than that since taller men are more likely to already be taken and are also acceptable to women without height requirements. The reverse is also true for men, for the 60% of men around average height and shorter, there are only about 40% of women who's height preferences you fit. Given that those women could also date taller men, I stated earlier that for every 3 women for whom your height is a problem, there is 1 maybe 2 for whom it doesn't matter.
Numbers here are rough estimates, but clearly women with height requirements which include heights around average are many more times as likely to find a guy than women with above average height requirements (just the 4" difference between 5'8" and 6' takes a woman's dating pool from maybe 65% of men down to < 15%). Also, this mainly applies to the Internet where such numbers cause an exact cut-off in search results (you may never see the guy 1" shorter online who otherwise is a perfect match, where you might not even notice 1" if you ran into each other doing your favorite hobby/activity). | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 9:01:09 AM | How would you know if it's false? Have you talked to every woman on this planet? I know I haven't. That's my mistake. Seeing from past experience if it was false then half of the ladies who wanted to date me wouldn't been my height or taller.
We know it is objectively false because of the dozens of academic studies that have been done on the subject, and the anecdotal evidence presented by real-life short guys. Plus, the honest words of the majority of women. The shorter the guy, the more women will automatically reject him. And it's not a 1 to 1 ratio - as the guy gets shorter, an exponentially greater number of women will reject him. For instance, only a few more women would reject a 5'9" man for being "too short" than would reject a 6'0" man for being "too short". But MANY MORE women would reject a 5'5" man for being "too short" than would reject a 5'8" man for being "too short"; even though it's still only three inches.
Your logical mistake comes in because you assumed that taller women would be uninterested in you. This is false. Simply being short and male will make you "inferior" in the minds of many women...but you can't tell these women from the more reasonable women by using a measuring tape. Many times, the short women are the most hostile to short men.
That's why I believe that short men should not artificially limit themselves by only going for shorter women.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 9:12:39 AM | He's saying it's false based on the reaction of SOME women.
Nope.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that empirical evidence shows Shadowland's statement to be false. Shadowland's statement is an example of how things "ought" to be, but not how things actually are.
Shadowlands' numbers may not be based on fact or research, but he was illustrating the point that someone else made earlier. If she's not into you, MOVE ON!! That goes for any person who has another person reject them or be uninterested for ANY reason. We've all been there.
I don't think they need to "move on". If someone has a requirement instead of a preference, then the variable that they seek must be extremely important to them. It must be so important that it negates all other variables. I think that sort of fanaticism can be legitimately questioned (even if it will not be changed). If a woman "only" dates men taller than X height, then I don't think it's wrong to challenge her as to how that could possibly be when human beings are so varied.
On the same token, if the vast majority of women share the same requirement, then I don't think it should be questioned. I think it must be questioned.
In that case, I think there must be something systemic going on that makes women think that shorter men are inferior to taller men. If this is the case, then we should examine whether this phenomenon affects more of our society and what it's consequences are. Unless you are a person who is blind to inequality, then I don't see any reason why we should all just turn our backs to the issue and say "move on...nothing to see here".
I think it's wrong for anyone to bash the ENTIRE opposite gender because they've been rejected.
If scientists discovered that men are 20x more likely to commit murder, then would you think that the data should be quashed because it makes men look bad? I think not.
I think the data makes women look bad...but that's no reason to lie or conceal the truth. Women could easily change if they wanted to; though they are under no obligation to do so.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 9:18:39 AM | | I think we should leave others alone to date and be attracted to whomever they choose. Trying to force an attraction on anyone will never work. It's either there or it is not . You know why women like men taller then them? Because in our species the male is naturally bigger therefore we gravitate towards what is natural to us as a species . It's always been that way and unless evolution takes a weird turn it will always be that way. If we were frogs then smaller shorter guys would have it made as in that species the male is smaller. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 9:32:46 AM | Your logical mistake comes in because you assumed that taller women would be uninterested in you. This is false. Simply being short and male will make you "inferior" in the minds of many women...but you can't tell these women from the more reasonable women by using a measuring tape. Many times, the short women are the most hostile to short men.
That's why I believe that short men should not artificially limit themselves by only going for shorter women.
This is one reason why guys who are considered too short, too old, too poor, too ugly, or too whatever by American women should consider giving foreign women a try. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 9:52:30 AM | I also prefer taller men, 5'10" or above, but have found that a lot of short guys will say they are 5'10 or so and then when you meet them they are obviously several inches shorter. Most women I know just prefer taller men, its just a preference like most men may not like heavier women. I know not everyone is attracted to the same things, it doesn't offend me if a guy is not attracted to me, we all have our preferences. Its not a big deal people. If a guy says he prefers taller women, then I know not to message him since I am short. Why do so many people get offended by this?  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 10:03:56 AM | Iam dating a shorter man and i dont think anything of it!!! Iam short he's short were perfact for eachother | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 10:29:31 AM | Well this thread just confirms what I already knew. At 5'7" I appreciate I am at a disadvantage when it comes to competing with the taller men on this site for a pool of women that to start with is significantly smaller then that of the men.
All things being equal the taller man will naturally get the attention of the women. It was however particularly disheartening and eyeopening to read those stats someone posted on this thread about how many profiles of men women are excluding from even seeing based on the height requirements they set in their personal match criteria.
Personally I have never had a lot of trouble meeting attractive women in "the real world" for that I feel fortunate given my stature I suppose. I can't say my experience on this site so far has been quite as successful, granted I have not been on here very long
I don't feel it's a good analogy to make to say men are just as shallow in their preference for thin/or average women over those who are overweight. We can all do things to improve our physical appearance through diet and exercise. To me how someone takes care of themself physically speaks volumes about a person's character, the pride the take in themself. Height is something we cannot change, and says nothing about a person's character.
I have always recognized that for me to "compete" with men taller then myself for the attention of women I have to try to be the best that I can be. I consider that for my age I am probably in the top 5% of men as far as my physical condition is concerned. Do I think I'm all that?....not at all...or else I wouldn't have been pounding away in the gym for the past 30 plus years trying to improve myself.
The point I'm trying to make is that my advice to all us short guys out there...is to lose the beer guts, and do everything possible to improve yourself to stand out from the crowd, this will better your odds...slightly...or else guys....we don't stand a chance. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 10:54:40 AM |
The point I'm trying to make is that my advice to all us short guys out there...is to lose the beer guts, and do everything possible to improve yourself to stand out from the crowd, this will better your odds...slightly...or else guys....we don't stand a chance.
We short guys probably don't stand a chance with American women anyways, unless we somehow become rich and famous like Tom Cruise or Keith Urban and get a woman who's rich and famous in her own right. We're much better off trying to find a foreign girlfriend or wife in Asia or Latin America. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 11:33:19 AM |
You know why women like men taller then them? Because in our species the male is naturally bigger therefore we gravitate towards what is natural to us as a species
Not exactly.
The male is larger than the female in our species because during our evolutionary development, the female (who carries the offspring) was unable to defend herself from predators and nature for 9 months and so she selected larger males to defend her. As this happened over generations, the size and strength differences became more pronounced (men more adapt at physically warding off negative elements of nature were selected for by women and so the genes for taller height in males were promoted but the genes for taller height in females were not). It is because of evolution that men are generally taller than women.
The same evolutionary development explains why people get fat. We have used our brains to make food much less scarce. But our evolutionary brains (the same ones that say that tall men are superior) tell us to eat, eat, eat, eat, eat at any chance because who knows when we may eat again.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 11:38:43 AM |
The same evolutionary development explains why people get fat. We have used our brains to make food much less scarce. But our evolutionary brains (the same ones that say that tall men are superior) tell us to eat, eat, eat, eat, eat at any chance because who knows when we may eat again.
Exactly and our evolutionary brains are telling women go for bigger and taller. It doesn't really matter why men are bigger the fact is they are bigger then women naturally, so a man shorter then a woman to most women would just not be desirable . Life is what it is and most of the time it doesn't seem fair to us who have not won the genetic lottery. You just have to suck it up and accept what you have been given. Taking temper tantrums and insisting that the opposite sex be attracted to you will never work no matter how long and hard you scream. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 11:59:50 AM | This is to tkdblake93, I am an American all the way. I have no preference in the height of a man, as long as he is self confident and treats others with respect. I have
even posted it on my profile if you check it out. I wish you all the luck in finding a girl from another country because some just marry to stay here also. I have heard alot complaints from American men when they married foreign women , being used and dumped later when they got their green card. So don't lump us all together. I think it's the luck of the draw like with anything in life.  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:14:51 PM | Jonathan Doeman wrote:
***The male is larger than the female in our species because during our evolutionary development, the female (who carries the offspring) was unable to defend herself from predators and nature for 9 months and so she selected larger males to defend her. As this happened over generations, the size and strength differences became more pronounced (men more adapt at physically warding off negative elements of nature were selected for by women and so the genes for taller height in males were promoted but the genes for taller height in females were not). It is because of evolution that men are generally taller than women. ***
Hmmmm... interesting, theoretically, but we can hypothesize all we like about attraction.
I believe, even if we're talking about Neanderthal or modern day man, woman are still attracted to a strong man, one who is a good "hunter", one who is confident, attentive and caring. I would imagine even in prehistoric times, a woman still looked for those traits in a man that "she" found attractive or important to her whether it was for protection, a good helpmate, or one who simply tripped her prehistoric trigger.
Conjecture, about what a woman long before us found attractive, is only that.
Sharzi | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:15:23 PM | looken4agoodguy wrote: This is to tkdblake93, I am an American all the way. I have no preference in the height of a man, as long as he is self confident and treats others with respect. I have
even posted it on my profile if you check it out. I wish you all the luck in finding a girl from another country because some just marry to stay here also. I have heard alot complaints from American men when they married foreign women , being used and dumped later when they got their green card. So don't lump us all together. I think it's the luck of the draw like with anything in life.
You seem like a nice lady, but you yourself are 5'1" and 47 years old. Women who are about your height but 20 to 30 years younger insist on a tall guy, even if they're not tall or of average height themselves. At 47 you have lived and loved more and are mature enough to overlook imperfections in another person. I can't say the same for people in their 20s and 30s. Of course, not every foreign woman is going to be a good choice (or a bad choice either). It really depends on the person, but in my experience women in foreign countries tend to be a more accepting and caring than what I've found at home for the most part. One can't say that EVERY American woman is going to divorce her husband and leave him with nothing, but TOO MANY of them do just that. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:21:44 PM |
women in foreign countries tend to be a more accepting and caring
That's because they will do "ANYTHING" to get out of their countries and into yours including pretending to love you , like having sex with you and treating you like king to get you to marry her. I am not talking about you specifically tkdblake.
One can't say that EVERY American woman is going to divorce her husband and leave him with nothing, but TOO MANY of them do just that.
Just like it takes two to get married it takes two to get a divorce. No one is blameless in these situations. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:21:51 PM |
Its not a big deal people. If a guy says he prefers taller women, then I know not to message him since I am short. Why do so many people get offended by this?
Is it really a mystery that someone would be offended if there was something about them that they never chose; have no control over; has no impact on their mobility, competence, or well-being; but which automatically renders them "significantly unattractive" to 90% of the opposite sex? How could this NOT offend that person? And to add insult to injury, those women then turn around and claim that it is a "personal preference" even though it's neither a "preference" (it's a requirement), nor "personal" (it's shared, and extremely widespread).
I have had some guys that have offered "to wear lifts". I thought this was hilarious! Honey, at some point you gonna' have to take them shoes off.
I find this extremely fascinating. So to you, the height requirement is so strong that an "artificially tall" man is unacceptable? So what would happen if this man got a surgery in which he goes from, say 5'8" to an honest 5'11" with shoes on. Would it offend you to date him because he was really "just a short man, in a tall man's body"?
I don't genuinely don't understand your feelings here. Are you saying that you would not consider a man who is only tall in public, and that he has to be tall all of the time? Or are you making some deep psychological statement in the mold of Plato about some abstract "good" to "tallness" which cannot be captured with elevator shoes?
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:25:15 PM |
Hmmmm... interesting, theoretically, but we can hypothesize all we like about attraction.
I believe, even if we're talking about Neanderthal or modern day man, woman are still attracted to a strong man, one who is a good "hunter", one who is confident, attentive and caring. I would imagine even in prehistoric times, a woman still looked for those traits in a man that "she" found attractive or important to her whether it was for protection, a good helpmate, or one who simply tripped her prehistoric trigger.
Conjecture, about what a woman long before us found attractive, is only that.
Sharzi
In the animal kingdom several males vie and fight for a woman's affection. The winner is the one who gets the woman and gets to have offspring with her. Obviously, it would probably be against the law in most human societies to do that, so women choose by different means. In the Roman days gladiators were found quite attractive to women from all classes. Nowadays it might be the guys making their living in the entertainment business (sports, music, movies). Money equals power and power is what has always attracted women, in whichever form it takes. Tall men get considerably better treatment in our society. They're most likely to be promoted to management and executive positions, and that's a form of power. Police officers are considered authority figures. Power turns women on as beauty turns men on. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:27:03 PM |
Exactly and our evolutionary brains are telling women go for bigger and taller. It doesn't really matter why men are bigger the fact is they are bigger then women naturally, so a man shorter then a woman to most women would just not be desirable . Life is what it is and most of the time it doesn't seem fair to us who have not won the genetic lottery. You just have to suck it up and accept what you have been given. Taking temper tantrums and insisting that the opposite sex be attracted to you will never work no matter how long and hard you scream.
This was not the point of my analogy at all.
I said the same evolutionary brain that causes us to over-eat is the same brain that causes women to seek tall men. The solution to this is not to get fat, but to let our modern brain guide our evolutionary instincts and chose what is really better for us. The fact that our instincts tell us to eat everything doesn't mean it's "smart" to get fat.
And even if those women's instincts tell her that "taller = better", that doesn't mean that she should live her life in that manner or let that prejudice spill over into everyday interactions.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:36:22 PM | I'm 6'2" ie 188cm and I have to say that I have an opinion!
When I get a hug from a guy, I like it to go dark. I like to feel feminine. I like to have someone put their arm AROUND me. I like to put my arm around their waist. Not their neck. I like to smoochy dance knowing that I can breathe in his aftershave, not his hair gel
How many tall guys want small women? Loads. Coz it makes them feel manly. Small guys want tall women as they want to feel like they can attract them. Power in other words.
This really pisses me off. I was in a night club once, minding my own business. Along coms a small guy and asks if he can climb me.
Oh great. Now I'm dealing with the shrimp who left their brain cell behind today. What is it with small guys!! I'm not interested!
And before you get on your "You don't know it till you tried it" horse, I married a guy at 5'9" and it is not great.
In short, if you are vertically challenged, don't think that every tall girl is gonna luv ya coz we don't!! | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:40:11 PM | | Taller isn't always better. There are tall guys in their 30s and 40s who can't keep a job and lives at home with parents. And then there are short guys who are go-getters who go after what they want and do well for themselves. Even so, a short to average guy isn't going to convince women who insist on having a tall boyfriend or husband by anything he does or says. | |
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) to get bent out of shape over it 
. This doesn't mean I can't be friends with them.
I just am not interested in a "romantic" relationship with someone short.
