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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/6/2008 6:50:03 PM | | I'm short and the ladies don't like me at all. I should get leg extension surgery, but it's like $200,000 and I don't have that in the bank yet, and when I would it wouldn't matter since that money would get me a babe. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/6/2008 7:10:30 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is 5'10" considered short now? I didn't realize that it was. Maybe you would get more response if your profile didn't have this restriction to contact you. "Age between 99 and 99"
Just a thought......... | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:44:42 PM | I too have been amazed at the numbers of women (I refer to them as height queens) who feel it necessary to specify that they like tall men, even when they're on the short side themselves, such that a guy of average height would still be much taller. If a guy specified in his profile that he wanted a woman 36D or larger he'd (correctly) be thought a slob. But many women post their height requirements as though it's self evident that a woman wants a taller man.
One distinction that needs to be made is about preferences vs. deal-breakers. For instance, I have a preference for women with the 'Mediterranean' look - dark hair, eyes, complexion. But do I seek that look out? No. Would I ever mention that preference in my profile? No. Because it's just not a deal-breaker. I find all sorts of women attractive. And the dating pool, especially at 45+ is small enough without making it smaller.
Even though at 5'10" I'm generally not excluded for too little height (too little hair, yes), I find profiles with height requirements a real turn-off - a red flag. Some people approach on line dating as though it was shopping - you tell the clerk what you want, and he gets it for you. If you want a blue dress, you aren't going to settle for a red dress. Likewise, if you're shopping for a six-footer, you aren't going to settle for 5'8". A person with that attitude is probably a waste of time.
One observation about the frequency with which female PoFers specify height as important, which also relates to the ancient question of why 'women don't like nice guys': if you pay attention to the shorter guys you meet out in the flesh and blood world, you'll notice plenty of them wearing wedding rings. My theory is, and this is also true about 'nice' guys, is that women do indeed like shorter guys, and nice guys, and they marry them and stay married to them. Hence, they aren't here on PoF putting silly requirements in their profiles.
Remember, the PoF pool, with the exception of the widowed and those just here for the forums, is made up of people whose relationships failed. For the over 40s, probably multiple relationships have failed. Seeing superficial or unrealistic (like 45 year old guys who think their dating range should be 25-35) requirements may be a good clue as to why many of the people here fishing are here in the first place. Rigid standards, excessive concern for what others think, and buying into a Ken and Barbie view of male/female relations probably are good indicators of someone who's going to be not so good at relationships.
Lastly - for those who are wondering 'if I'm 5'2", but really want a man 6' - does that make me shallow?' The answer is yes. And you're kind of a slob, too. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/6/2008 10:25:48 PM | | i'm 5'8", i often wear 4 inch heels and look 6' tall. i tend to prefer guys 5'10 or taller, but have gone out with or been attracted to men as short as 5'6". i'm also a a curvy girl, so if he's very short as well as toned/slim (which tends to be my body type preference) we can look rather mismatched. but if i'm attracted to a guy and he happens to be short...well, then i can learn to get over it. i have before ; ) | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/7/2008 10:01:22 PM |
Remember, the PoF pool, with the exception of the widowed and those just here for the forums, is made up of people whose relationships failed.
Well there's also us young folk who just haven't met that special someone yet and as such haven't had a chance to foul things up :)
My take on this whole thing:
As a very short guy (5'5") I can say it doesn't matter to me or bother me. Most short guys look at it like its a curse and I did too for a while until I realized it filters out the superficial women. A woman my height who will only date six foot guys is just as superficial and shallow as the guy that will only date the blonde woman with an ample chest and tiny waist. If a woman can't feel feminine if she's next to a shorter man than that's indicative of insecurity. I don't feel like any less of a man with a taller woman. To make the critical distinction, any woman who has a preference for taller guys, but gives me a chance based on other factors isn't superficial in any way.
And I'm not a hypocrite either. I very few physical requirements for a woman. To quote Ron Jeremy, all women are beautiful. That's my outlook. I'm physically attracted to all kinds of women, normal women, fat women, tall women, short women, etc. The only thing that really turns me off is lots of makeup and jewelry. I prefer the natural look. The reason I don't have any requirements is because I know that attraction is 10% physical but 90% mental and the mind has an incredible control over the body. I simply won't risk missing out on the perfect person because they don't fit some stupid physical requirement.
As far as the hunter-gatherer theory leading women to select taller men due to genetic instinct, that couldn't be farther from the truth. That's our romanticized vision of prehistoric humans, but its not an accurate one. It was men of a short stocky stature that populated the earth in those days. The short stature made them better hunters for obvious reasons. Who'd have an easier time hiding behind a rock or crawling unseen through a field of prairie grass: Tom Cruise or Brad Garret? Shorter folks tend to have quicker reflexes (useful for hurling projectiles at a mammoth) and consume less energy (important in the prehistoric world's limited food supply) for a similar weight/muscle mass. In the survival days a short athletic guy was the norm.
The preference toward tallness is a recent (like last 200 years) phenomenon in the Western world only. I've been to Japan and I go from being very short here to average height over there. Its a very cultural thing. Many women want tall men because its ingrained in them by society early in life that they do. Most of the preferences one has but can't quite explain originate from this subconscious preference society imprints one with. Similarly it (incorrectly) tells men that women are supposed to be rail thin with disproportionately large breasts. American culture places far too much emphasis on physical appearance (which I find ironic considering our Puritanical approach to seeing the human body) setting an absurd standard that's not representative of the majority of the population.
And short-man syndrome? That's a term invented by those who have a height bias. When a tall guy's aggressive its sexy, but if a short guy's aggressive its SMS... It would be more appropriately called aggressive douchebag syndrome, tall folks are just as guilty of the behavior it just doesn't stand out in people's minds. For some reason people just expect short guys to be submissive and when they aren't its labeled as SMS. And why am I using that abbreviation; the geek in me keeps reading that as 'short message service' (that's text messaging for you normal people).
Please Note: I'm not judging anyone for their physical preferences. We all have our own preferences. I judge when physical preferences become more important than personality. That's when one becomes superficial. | |
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jurupa
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Joined: 2/12/2008
Msg: 1083 | |
| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 2:47:09 AM |
A woman my height who will only date six foot guys is just as superficial and shallow as the guy that will only date the blonde woman with an ample chest and tiny waist. And you don't call your self a hypocrite because you don't have any preference/standards, nice. If a woman that is 5'5" wants to date guys that are only 6'+ let her be, as she is not for you as you said. According to your logic I am superficial and shallow as prefer and want taller women. But I know I am to a certain degree because I know what I want physically.
've been to Japan and I go from being very short here to average height over there.
Average height of Japanese male - 5'7.8"
Average height of US male - 5'9.3"
No wonder you felt average avalanche325, because asian men in general are shorter than US men.
The preference toward tallness is a recent (like last 200 years) phenomenon in the Western world only. So your saying this all started back in the early 1800's? Where the heck did you get that one from?
Many women want tall men because its ingrained in them by society early in life that they do. Or just maybe its a Darwin thing going on. If you look into human growth height wise over the centuries, especially in the US you would see that the average height of humans have generally gone up over the years due to improvements in health and medicine. But nope lets blame all of this on the media and ignore the other facts that are out there shall we?
American culture places far too much emphasis on physical appearance I agree with this. But sadly its does not seem to be going away anytime soon and it is taking a toll on our country because of this, meaning look at our education system.
As far as the hunter-gatherer theory leading women to select taller men due to genetic instinct, that couldn't be farther from the truth. That's our romanticized vision of prehistoric humans, but its not an accurate one. It was men of a short stocky stature that populated the earth in those days. The short stature made them better hunters for obvious reasons. Who'd have an easier time hiding behind a rock or crawling unseen through a field of prairie grass: Tom Cruise or Brad Garret? Shorter folks tend to have quicker reflexes (useful for hurling projectiles at a mammoth) and consume less energy (important in the prehistoric world's limited food supply) for a similar weight/muscle mass. In the survival days a short athletic guy was the norm. Why are you guys keep on using this argument so dam much? The Neanderthals where like 5'5" at best and stocky as that is what they needed to be physically to survive back then. We no longer hunt and kill animals with spears anymore so we don't need a short stocky body anymore as it does not suit our needs or environment. I agree that a short guy in theory will be faster than a tall guy. But what good is speed when we use our brains more than muscle? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 3:21:20 AM | as a man....i feel that a woman who has a "height requirement" makes about as much sense as a man who has a "boob requirement" , which I do not ,by the way.
come on people.... we play with the cards we are dealt.....
Steve | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:19:22 AM | Why would that be so? Why doesn't a tall man feel 'awkward' with a short woman?
This is a hilarious statement.
AdrianEsquire: The comment that NorseViking made was based on my statement. I am a woman, and he was commenting on what I explained to be my EXPERIENCES as a Tall woman.
There are tall men that feel awkward with short women. Being a tall woman who has dated tall men, I know it for a fact. my height has often been an attraction point for them.
You will never know (obviously) how it feels to be a tall woman. At 6ft2.5 I stand out already. No need to add to that. Plus, it is not womens attitudes that have had anything to do with it.
I also know that a lot of short men do find tall women attractive. That is nice and there are some tall women who get along fine dating small men. But I am a tall BBW, it just would look 'silly'. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 6:29:46 AM |
I also know that a lot of short men do find tall women attractive. That is nice and there are some tall women who get along fine dating small men. But I am a tall BBW, it just would look 'silly'.
So dating actor/comedian Eddie Griffin (5'7") would be out of the question for you? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 2:18:04 PM |
as a man....i feel that a woman who has a "height requirement" makes about as much sense as a man who has a "boob requirement" , which I do not ,by the way.
come on people.... we play with the cards we are dealt.....
If a man has a boob requirement, then he has a boob requirement. Nobody else can tell him it doesn't make sense, it makes sense to him if that's what he wants. He doesn't feel that he's missing out on women who don't fit his requirement, how can he be missing out on women to whom hw is not attracted?
Yes, we do play the cards we're dealt. Some shorter men need to learn to play a hand that includes some women being turned off by their height. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 2:29:16 PM | If he is short and proportioned out well and handsome and generally a good catch...I have no problem with a shorter fellow ... It takes all kinds to make this world spin ...would be a boring world if we were all exactly the same | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 3:44:30 PM | @jurupa,
I think you misunderstood what I wrote and we actually agree on most points.
If a woman that is 5'5" wants to date guys that are only 6'+ let her be, as she is not for you as you said. According to your logic I am superficial and shallow as prefer and want taller women. But I know I am to a certain degree because I know what I want physically.
Read the rest of my post. I said its only superficial when one will refuse to consider anyone who doesn't fit one's ideal preference. Having preferences is certainly not superficial. Preferences become superficial when they are the sole basis for dismissing someone who is otherwise completely desirable. But as I said I want nothing to do with someone who would place such high importance on things that are ultimately insignificant anyways. I know that I can be and have been attracted to all kinds of women, so having one specific preference is just stupid. Yes there are thing I like better than others about women, but I won't rule somebody out for not being ideal. I could miss out on the perfect person. Conversely I have plenty of non-physical preferences that I'm more adamant about. Physical attraction may spark interest but its the non-physical stuff that holds it.
No wonder you felt average avalanche325, because asian men in general are shorter than US men.
So your saying this all started back in the early 1800's? Where the heck did you get that one from?
Or just maybe its a Darwin thing going on. If you look into human growth height wise over the centuries, especially in the US you would see that the average height of humans have generally gone up over the years due to improvements in health and medicine.
These are all very related. I mentioned my experience in Japan because it highlights the cultural difference. I'm very much aware of the average height difference and that's why I chose to mention it. They don't place such a high value on tallness in men and as a consequence average height isn't as high as it is in the USA or Europe, which supports my argument that the value of tallness is a cultural thing. To answer your question I looked over the growth growth history and the explosion seems to happen in the last 200 years or so. Yes health and medicine certainly contributed, but seeing the incredible growth in the US, there needs to be other motivating factors as well.
But nope lets blame all of this on the media and ignore the other facts that are out there shall we?
Did I blame the media? While they certainly contribute to the overemphasis on appearance, they merely reflect the unattainable ideals of what society/culture in general promotes. Its something out society holds as a "value" that taller is better. Its not universally true of humans and leaving the USA made me realize that (and a great many other things).
I agree with this. But sadly its does not seem to be going away anytime soon and it is taking a toll on our country because of this, meaning look at our education system.
Agreed, our education system is becoming an embarrassment.
Why are you guys keep on using this argument so dam much? The Neanderthals where like 5'5" at best and stocky as that is what they needed to be physically to survive back then. We no longer hunt and kill animals with spears anymore so we don't need a short stocky body anymore as it does not suit our needs or environment. I agree that a short guy in theory will be faster than a tall guy. But what good is speed when we use our brains more than muscle?
The point of my writing about that was to argue against the idea that women select taller men as a byproduct of hunter-gatherer times. I was simply pointing out that the argument has no basis in historical fact and based on what you've written you agree with me.
Also thank you for the well written response. I do enjoy a good debate with people who aren't borderline illiterate. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 4:00:34 PM |
If a man has a boob requirement, then he has a boob requirement. Nobody else can tell him it doesn't make sense, it makes sense to him if that's what he wants. He doesn't feel that he's missing out on women who don't fit his requirement, how can he be missing out on women to whom hw is not attracted?
The logic your proposing here is dangerous. that an attraction is always right because its involuntary. I hate to use such an extreme example, but a pedophile's attraction makes sense to him. Based on your logic who are we to tell him he's wrong for that preference. I realize that the example is harsh and extreme, but hyperbole is one of the best ways to prove argument false (ie If you argue X implies Y, then Y must hold true for all X).
He doesn't feel that he's missing out on women who don't fit his requirement, how can he be missing out on women to whom hw is not attracted?
Just because a guy doesn't feel like he's missing out doesn't mean he isn't. Feelings do not lead to facts. The old saying goes something like "You don't know if you don't try".
Your words also imply that physical attraction is the extent of attraction when it is clearly not. Do I believe its possible for me to fall in love with a woman I'm not initially physically attracted to? Absolutely. In fact the love will make them attractive to you regardless of what they look like. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 4:32:31 PM |
I hate to use such an extreme example, but a pedophile's attraction makes sense to him. Based on your logic who are we to tell him he's wrong for that preference.
OMG. Yes, a pedophile's preference is absoloutely wrong because it hurts people and ruins lives. A man with a boob requirement or a woman with a height requirement is not hurting anyone. OMG.
Just because a guy doesn't feel like he's missing out doesn't mean he isn't.
Uh, yes it does.
Your words also imply that physical attraction is the extent of attraction when it is clearly not.
Maybe not, but I still don't date short guys, I am not attracted to them, ever. Ever. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:20:53 PM | In the dark ages, ancient Rome, and ancient Egypt, malnutrition and disease would stunt one's growth. This along with genetics would determine one's fully-grown physical stature. For thousands of years, a female would instinctually be more attracted to a tall man (as well as other physical attributes) as this shows he is healthy and he would be more adept at successfully raising a family.
Now malnutrition, starvation, and many diseases (through vaccination and modern medicine) are a thing of the past. Of course I am speaking to us lucky folk who grew up in modern countries and are lucky enough to own a computer and fart around on high-speed internet to read my gibberish. But just as men find a full set of boobs attractive due to instinct, there is no longer such a need for this as the risk of starvation is no longer relevant.
3rd world countries are another story, but I don't think any women on here want to date a starving and malnourished, malaria-ridden man in Ethiopia (unless that's your fetish). Only because that man is probably "short", of course  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:23:07 PM |
OMG. Yes, a pedophile's preference is absoloutely wrong because it hurts people and ruins lives
I agree with you that its completely wrong. My point was that you can't have a double standard like that.
A man with a boob requirement or a woman with a height requirement is not hurting anyone.
So you think rejection for something you can't change doesn't hurt anyone? I have female friends who aren't very blessed in the chest area and I hear all about the pain it causes when they're shot down by men for something they can't change. Its hard to learn from your rejections when the reason for them is something you can't change and that reason accounts for a majority of rejections.
Just because a guy doesn't feel like he's missing out doesn't mean he isn't. Uh, yes it does.
I'm sorry, it just doesn't follow. Its a logical fallacy to make the leap that if X is assumed then X must be true.
I can speak to this from experience on other issues. I assumed for the longest time that I didn't like fish (in fact the though of eating it made me sick) and never though I'm missing out on all that great fish. Then I finally bit the bullet and filleted a walleye that I caught. To my surprise I loved the taste. I was certainly missing out and now I know it. Just because I assumed I wasn't missing out before didn't make it true. Perception is not reality.
Maybe not, but I still don't date short guys, I am not attracted to them, ever. Ever.
How closed-minded of you. We could have a whole other discussion about the problems inherent in thinking in absolutes. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:32:23 PM |
Maybe not, but I still don't date short guys, I am not attracted to them, ever. Ever.
How closed-minded of you. We could have a whole other discussion about the problems inherent in thinking in absolutes
OMG bro, get off it. "How closed-minded of you.", you say. You are arguing against her opinion.
I like Coke Zero but I don't like Diet Coke. Tell me why I should force Diet Coke down my throat instead of enjoying a nice TALL glass of cold Coke Zero?  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 6:10:02 PM |
OMG bro, get off it. "How closed-minded of you.", you say. You are arguing against her opinion.
And you are arguing with mine. Arguing isn't being closed-minded. Having the attitude that X can never be the case is. Bill Gates said the Internet would never take off, and now he's profiting gloriously because of it. Its one thing to say one isn't typically attracted to something, its completely another to say that they can never be attracted to it. The first opinion asserts preferences, but it open minded. The second is close minded.
Besides this is a forum, which a place to debate and exchange ideas and opinions. I'm not being abusive towards or disrespectful of the people I respond to. My goal isn't to be offensive, but rather to point out an angle that may not have been seen before and challenge the belief. I like being challenged on my beliefs, it forces me to validate them and if I can't, then discard them.
I like Coke Zero but I don't like Diet Coke. Tell me why I should force Diet Coke down my throat instead of enjoying a nice TALL glass of cold Coke Zero?
Diet Coke is consistent and has very little variance. Two people differ on infinitely more things than height, weight, color or any other physical attribute. Also the fact that you know you don't like Diet Coke indicates you tried it.
I like Coke Zero better myself. It baffles the mind as to why they ever chose the poorly received Coke II to be the basis for Diet Coke. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:45:23 PM |
If a man has a boob requirement, then he has a boob requirement. Nobody else can tell him it doesn't make sense, it makes sense to him if that's what he wants. He doesn't feel that he's missing out on women who don't fit his requirement, how can he be missing out on women to whom hw is not attracted?
Yes, we do play the cards we're dealt. Some shorter men need to learn to play a hand that includes some women being turned off by their height.
No one is suggesting that legislation be passed forcing shortness-averse women or flatness-averse men to date body types out of their comfort range. And we all have to deal with what we're dealt, and in most instances what we're dealt is less than perfect, and even if it's perfect, aging will change that.
No one is hurt by someone who picks his nose in public, belches, or tells foul jokes to inappropriate audiences. No laws have been broken and no blood drawn. But no one is required to respect that person, or seek out his company, and most people would be rather relieved to be excluded from his company.
Perhaps it can be argued that a man for whom big boobs is an absolute requirement has a fetish, of the same sort that makes some men fill their closets with ladies shoes. I'm not a psychologist, so I can't speak to that. My own opinion of Mr Big Boobs is that he's a shallow, and a slob. Do you know the medical term for a man who'd prefer an ignorant, ditzy D over a charming, intelligent C? It's 'moron'.
Some posters have made reasonable points about why very tall men or women might prefer people closer to them in height. There are some logistical issues there. As for height queens...please do keep on putting your height requirements in your profiles, preferably at the top. It makes them so much easier to skip over. And stop belching and picking your noses in public. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:00:07 PM | | I like guys to be taller than me. After that, I don't care about the height. However considering I'm only 5'0, its easy to find guys taller than me. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/9/2008 7:08:44 PM | | Eddie Griffin was the main character in "Undercover Brother" and the pimp in the "Deuce Bigalow" movies. One of his more famous movie lines: "Don't make me he-man b****-slap you!" | |
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