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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:08:05 AM | tkdblake93,
I broke my own rule by reading the above but couldn't help it was there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
I sent you a PM because the subject matter was off topic on this thread. You elected to respond in public for whatever reason and I found that in poor taste. Hence my word choice of uncouth. Furthermore, at the end of my PM I explained why I responded to your ignorant comment as it was truly offensive, although I attempted to end on a positive note.
Also, I gave you an example of African cuisine and Afro-Indian cuisine to show the idea you were perpetuating was off-base. I mistakenly thought by sharing my views with you, that even if you didn't reconsider your own perspective, you might think twice about sharing them on public forums. My mail was not belligerent and if you took it that way then you are hyper-sensitive but it still doesn't shed light on why you chose to bring the conversation to a message board where it is off topic.
"No, but it (being "worthless") was implied, at least that's how I saw it. In the South a lot of foods are fried. I was watching the Travel Channel the other night and they said that fried chicken may have come from Scotland. Maybe I need to do more research on that. Still, I'm pretty sure that Southern food was influenced by the Africans who were brought here (against their will), in one way or another."
Ok, let's start with the word worthless. In your first post you put "worthless" in quotes just like that and then attributed it to me. That means you are saying I used that word in my message...not an implied meaning but a direct quote. Therein is the lie.
Next, you admit to learning from the Travel Channel fried chicken comes from Scotland. Maybe you should have researched that before you spread that erroneous information on a message board, in which, you blamed the slaves for the poor eating habits and obesity problems of Southerners which contributes to the obesity issues of an entire nation. However, it is really incredulous to me that you believe the slaves were abducted from their native country, brought to America against their will, made to do the bidding of those in control and then ALLOWED to cook foods for their masters from their native land.
I suggest you consider this: African-American cuisine as we know it today, stems from generations of slavery and has been adapted over time from the foods they were forced to cook for their masters and, thus, has become part of the African-American culture. For example, African and Afro-Indian cuisine is completely different from what African-Americans cuisine. That is my point.
"calling me a "simpleton" and "uncouth" is not exactly "polite" either. In an earlier post you said that not all women belittle others, but your post just goes to show that you're not one of the ones who don't (belittle others)."
I called you those terms after you lied on me in a public forum about my original mail, which I was unable to paste because I think you blocked me, which automatically deleted the message from my sent folder. (The only reason I can think that explains why that message isn't in my sent folder.) I still can't understand why you wouldn't just respond to me directly. Being that you lied, I no longer felt any need to be polite. I also use words like that to refrain from three- and four-letter words, which I feel have a degenerative affect on discourse.
Also, my comment about belittling others...was directed to another poster, who PM'd me on a subject relevant to the actual thread.
"Nowadays there are so many laws against discrimination. There are even laws coming out which are against height discrimination in the workplace. However, laws against discrimination in dating probably won't happen. Can you imagine there being laws which require people who date to give equal time to people they don't find attractive as well as to the ones they do find attractive. Ain't gonna happen!
This appears to be thrown in to guarantee your message doesn't get zapped from the thread about womens' perspectives on short men. In this regard, I agree with you. OT, there will never be a law, nor should there be, forcing anyone to date or give equal time to anyone they don't find attractive to them. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:36:05 AM | | ladies...I can understand your delima on short fellows,when your 5' 9" or taller.So what I have learned from this post,is.In order for me to be a MAN I must be 5' 10" or taller,so what your saying is ,if your boobs are not 44DD your not a woman?...Trust me, height is not the measure of a man nor do big boobs make a woman | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:54:50 AM | | I really don't know where the idea comes from that women are only interested in taller men, maybe that's the case for some women but definitely not the majority. Short sawed off scrawny guys have always been the majority preference of women. Anyone who thinks differently just isn't paying attention. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 7:55:18 AM | *loislane*, thanks for your post. I was a bit hasty in deleting your message, but when I read "I'm not surprised you're from Texas", I did get a bit pi$$ed off about that. Maybe I should have done some Googl'ing before I posted. You're right. What's African-American isn't necessarily African. For example, slaves in the USA weren't allowed to own or play drums. Therefore, Brazil got samba and the USA got the blues (and jazz). And most African-Americans today would look at Caribbean Santería and Brazilian Candomblé as "devil worship", even though that's a native religion from the area where most slaves in the New World came from, not Christianity or Islam.
*loislane*, you seem very mature in your posts and I apologize for having brought this to the boards and for the misunderstandings. Now to write something topic-specific.
It's much easier finding someone offline than online if you're a short or borderline short guy. That is, if you don't have the personality of a bitter SOB. The same is true for obese women. Sure, weight can be changed (for the most part) and height can't be, but we're attracted to who we're attracted to. If ladies aren't attracted to you where you live, then when you get a chance go do some travelling (preferibly to another country instead of Canada or the USA). From some of the posts I've seen on here, some of you guys do need a vacation, so when you have some money saved up, tell the boss you need a vacation and go talk to a travel agent. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 8:36:06 AM | tkdblake93,
No harm, no foul, eh? Thanks for understanding my point of view, I greatly appreciate your consideration.  Next time I mail, I will be sure to edit it for tone to try and prevent a misunderstanding. Btw, don't get me started on the Brazilian-African connection. They love considering themselves 100-percent Caucasian but as I just wrote a story on the Samba during Carnavale, their roots are well-entwined with African blood. But, anyway...
OT, well, kinda... I was embroiled in a debate on another long thread regarding short men/tall women, etc...while I was reading posts replying to me, the thread was deleted. However, I was not banned, therefore, I surmise I did not break any of the POF rules as I try very hard to stay within the lines of civil discourse.
To 4DutyandHumanity,
If you are clicking around and happen to find this...yes, I love John Coltrane AND Mariah Carey AND Cafe del Mar AND Lenny Kravitz AND Ayn Rand the man who GETS that...will be a man 100 percent crafted for me and will get me...height nothwithstanding.
Avalanche,
I can't remember many details from the individual posts...but Avie, I sure do love a good debate. I love it even more when people actually read and understand the other poster's point of view and respond attempting to progress the conversation, instead of trying to merely poke holes by being argumentative...that is not directed toward you. Sadly, you wrote quite a bit, which because of the thread's deletion, I never got the chance to respond to. I am not asking for a do-over, as I'm sure our paths will across again on this topic.
However, all of you (you know who you are) should realize...I don't dislike short men. Whenever I say I wouldn't put myself through the heartache of falling for one only to have him dump me for being tall...I mean exactly that. It took me about a year and a half to get over Mr. 5'8" ... I absolutely loved and adored him...despite the fact that my boyfriend before him was 6'11-1/2" tall, his height was never an issue for me. Meanwhile, he picked and picked at me and my imperfections. For example, Mr. 5'8" told me I was a "5" on a scale of 1 through 10 for because I did not have big breast and I had a big nose. His nose notwithstanding. For what it's worth, every man taller than him that I share that with said he was an idiot. I tend to agree, however, I am clearly biased. This is not a justification for my choices, simply another opportunity for you to understand where I am coming from.
eeek!
Well, aren't you a Knight-in-Shining-Armor...at least, I'm pretty sure it was you. After I went to bed, I noticed (upon my return to the thread) a certain poster continued his rant without saying much new...just trying to attack me, my position and my credibility. I planned not to respond, as much of his rant veered off topic, however, I was delighted you felt compelled to respond, rationally pointing out the things I couldn't get him to see. Tragically, he didn't want to read them from you either, which I think is why the thread was doomed and is now in the naughty thread graveyard. At any rate, I wanted to say thank you to and the others, who were able to understand I am not a short-man basher or hater, including CW35 and Avie.
Ok, that's enough... | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 8:51:59 AM | I think part of the reason why shorter guys seem to have an attitude about their height is due to some women who claim she "took a chance" on a shorter guy seemingly coming to a faulty ignorant conclusion that all shorter guys she will encounter will naturally display Napoleon complexes. This simply isn't true. Now this height-biased woman makes a blanket statement like "I dated a short guy, he acted as if my height intimidated him; now I simply refuse to date short guys. I need a tall guy so that I can rest my head on his chest while we slow dance."
This sort of ignorant prejudice can naturally frustrate someone who often experiences it. Not just shorter guys, for example like with people of ethnicity who live in areas where they are a minority.
Lets say a 5'9" woman dates a 6'3" guy, the relationship doesn't work because the guy is an asshole. Now does the 5'9" woman claim to have a pre-disposed bias against taller guys, thinking all taller guys are assholes because she dated ONE and THAT ONE was an asshole?? No. Obviously not all taller guys are assholes; not all shorter guys are little Napoleons. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 3:22:48 PM | To 4DutyandHumanity,
If you are clicking around and happen to find this...yes, I love John Coltrane AND Mariah Carey AND Cafe del Mar AND Lenny Kravitz AND Ayn Rand the man who GETS that...will be a man 100 percent crafted for me and will get me...height nothwithstanding.
What I get is that you have an open mind and you make up your own mind. I like Coltrane/Carey too - Cafe del Mar and Lenny Kravitz - I must be too old, because I don't know them. And I'm aware that finding someone's thoughts challenging is not the same as agreeing with them.
We sure burned up that other thread, didn't we? Just before I went to bed I put up a very scurrilous post about the physical problems of tall men, and in the morning the whole thread was gone. I thought it was me. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:03:17 PM | Great post Bikeman! couldn't have said it any better myself.
LL I see you're back... and no I'm not going to attack you let bygones be bygones.
just so you know.
it was me.
I contacted a friend of mine (who bears alleigance to bOrg) sent in a report to the moderator the mod saw all the flamming going on and killed the thread.
not to worry these "short guy" threads pop up all the time.
back to your regular scheduled programming. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:43:33 PM |
We sure burned up that other thread, didn't we? Just before I went to bed I put up a very scurrilous post about the physical problems of tall men, and in the morning the whole thread was gone. I thought it was me.
I was going through withdrawal!
Ok, here's an ironic personal tale. Saturday, I met a guy that I found through POF and have been talking to for a few weeks. We finally managed to connect while he was out riding in my neck of the woods with his brother and another friend. The guy I went to meet is 6'3". No spark, but a nice enough guy, and we had a good time.
So, he calls me today, and tells me he got back together with his ex, and would it be okay if he gave my number to his friend. He then asks if I think his friend is too short for me to be interested. (He's read my profile, he knows I have a 6' minimum.)
Honestly, I have no idea if I am interested. I didn't really pay much attention to the guy, even though he was alongside of me at about every stop sign and traffic light for about 4 hours. Nice enough guy...but since I was there to meet someone else, I really wasn't paying attention to him. So, lacking anything of substance for which to rule him out other than height, I said, "What the hell. Give him my number. I know some more roads he'd like to ride."
Now I am worried he might actually call me and be overly encouraged, and be several steps ahead of me right out of the gate. I think I would rather be shallow and dismissive...it's less stressful. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:46:29 PM | "Now I am worried he might actually call me and be overly encouraged, and be several steps ahead of me right out of the gate. I think I would rather be shallow and dismissive...it's less stressful"
That's your choice.
atleast you are ADMITTING you are being shallow and dismissive.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 6:59:57 PM |
Now I am worried he might actually call me and be overly encouraged, and be several steps ahead of me right out of the gate. I think I would rather be shallow and dismissive...it's less stressful.
This is called 'anticipative anxiety'. You're both adults, right? If he gets rejected and jumps off a bridge, well, if it wasn't you that sent him off, it would be someone else.
Go, and report back. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 7:10:27 PM | | I don't think height is a reflection on the guy. It's more a reflextion on me. I just think that when I date a guy who is shorter than me, it makes me stand out. I feel more self conscious about my own looks when the guy is that much shorter (or taller) than I am. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 9:24:50 PM | For *loislane*:
In Brazil, if someone has some Caucasian blood (even if they look black or mestizo), then they'll consider themselves "white". The opposite happened in U.S. history where if someone had 1/8 or 1/16 African ancestry, they were still considered "black". In Brazil, a very black person would be considered a "preto". Not so dark, "negro". Some consider themselves "moreno" as well.
6 years ago I had a Brazilian girlfriend. She was maybe a little bit taller than me. She had small breasts, but that didn't bother me. I'm more of a leg & butt man myself.  Give me a tall in-shape lady with small breasts over a short out-of-shape lady with big breasts any day! And yes, I've been with women fitting those 2 extremes and I prefer the former over the latter. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 10:02:27 PM | | The way i see it is ,women see "height "like men see breast size or butt shape...alot of men want a woman with a certain size breast but once they meet a woman and find that their attracted to them(no matter what size their chest) the men forget about the breast size and focus on the rest of her, and that's what most women do when it comes to height...they have to!....it's only a certain amount of tall guys to go around.....lolol | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 10:35:20 PM |
The way i see it is ,women see "height "like men see breast size or butt shape...alot of men want a woman with a certain size breast but once they meet a woman and find that their attracted to them(no matter what size their chest) the men forget about the breast size and focus on the rest of her, and that's what most women do when it comes to height...they have to!....it's only a certain amount of tall guys to go around.....lolol
Not true.
Men do not rule or filter out women based on their breast sizes. Also, most women do not settle when it comes to height. What tends to happen is that many women target a small pool of men (tall men) and they end up sharing those tall men with other women (whether they know it or not). However, most women do end up with average height men. But that says nothing for short men. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/14/2008 11:17:08 PM | @LL
I'm back and prepared with another dissertation.
<div class="quote">If you are clicking around and happen to find this...yes, I love John Coltrane AND Mariah Carey AND Cafe del Mar AND Lenny Kravitz AND Ayn Rand the man who GETS that...will be a man 100 percent crafted for me and will get me...height nothwithstanding.
I get everything but Lenny Kravitz. He irritates me.
<div class="quote">Avalanche,
I can't remember many details from the individual posts...but Avie, I sure do love a good debate.
I figured as much. One doesn't write eloquent responses to people for nothing. I thought I'd mention that I get a chuckle out of 'Avie' too because there's a context it has for me that's so radically different. I drive a Chevrolet Avalanche and I call my truck "the Avie" all the time. Now if anyone can guess where the 325 part comes from you get a virtual cookie.
<div class="quote">I love it even more when people actually read and understand the other poster's point of view and respond attempting to progress the conversation, instead of trying to merely poke holes by being argumentative...that is not directed toward you. Sadly, you wrote quite a bit, which because of the thread's deletion, I never got the chance to respond to. I am not asking for a do-over, as I'm sure our paths will across again on this topic.
I'll give you a recap :) I don't feel nearly as strongly about the topic as I let on. I've tried to make it abundantly clear I've never felt it to be a limiting factor in my dating life, but I do like to debate an issue that I am experienced with. My only beef is with the value that "taller is better" for men that American/Western society has. I could do without that. Women are free to prefer what they want, even if its that they'll only date six-fingered men with third nipples.
Oh and you missed me let a physical preference slip (on purpose for sake of debate, I'm a martyr for my arguments). I like redheads.
<div class="quote">However, all of you (you know who you are) should realize...I don't dislike short men. Whenever I say I wouldn't put myself through the heartache of falling for one only to have him dump me for being tall...I mean exactly that. It took me about a year and a half to get over Mr. 5'8" ... I absolutely loved and adored him...despite the fact that my boyfriend before him was 6'11-1/2" tall, his height was never an issue for me. Meanwhile, he picked and picked at me and my imperfections. For example, Mr. 5'8" told me I was a "5" on a scale of 1 through 10 for because I did not have big breast and I had a big nose. His nose notwithstanding. For what it's worth, every man taller than him that I share that with said he was an idiot. I tend to agree, however, I am clearly biased. This is not a justification for my choices, simply another opportunity for you to understand where I am coming from.
I feel for you, I really do. This guy sounds like a complete prick.
I posted my personal option on preferences as well. My stance is that preferences really don't matter to most people deep down. You strike me as a very open person. Based on evidence about your personality and such, I surmised that if the right guy came along and you knew he was the one, the height requirement would disappear. Once open-minded, always open-minded.
<div class="quote">At any rate, I wanted to say thank you to and the others, who were able to understand I am not a short-man basher or hater, including CW35 and Avie.
I can't understand how others got that impression. I never once felt bashed or hated.
<div class="quote">The way i see it is ,women see "height "like men see breast size or butt shape...alot of men want a woman with a certain size breast but once they meet a woman and find that their attracted to them(no matter what size their chest) the men forget about the breast size and focus on the rest of her, and that's what most women do when it comes to height...they have to!....it's only a certain amount of tall guys to go around.....lolol
Exactly. Preferences disappear when that other someone makes you all warm and fuzzy inside. You just don't have control over that.
<div class="quote">Men do not rule or filter out women based on their breast sizes. Also, most women do not settle when it comes to height. What tends to happen is that many women target a small pool of men (tall men) and they end up sharing those tall men with other women (whether they know it or not). However, most women do end up with average height men. But that says nothing for short men.
I wouldn't call it "settling" because that somehow implies being short is inferior, something I disagree with. Being short can be a blessing in a relationship in other less obvious ways. If you are short be fortunate. There have been studies done that show some interesting things. Tall men are more likely to get married than short men, but are also quite a bit more likely to end up in divorce. Statistically short guys end up in longer lasting more meaningful relationships.
Yes women prefer tall men as a majority, but a preference is just that a PREFERENCE. A person who drinks soda may PREFER Coke, but can still LIKE Pepsi and be happy and fulfilled with drinking Pepsi. Just because you prefer something doesn't mean you hate the alternative or won't go for it. Personally, I like redheads, but that has no bearing on my attraction to other hair colors. And it would never stand in the way of me going after someone I'm interested in.
I know its anecdotal evidence but over 3/4 of the women I've dated have been taller than me (I'm 5'5" so that isn't hard but the point is still relevant). Physical appearance has never been the reason for not continuing the relationship either. Its easy to find someone who turns you on physically. Its damn near impossible to find someone with character and integrity these days.
Short guys who complain they can't get dates. I'm shorter than nearly all of you and I'm fat too. But I get dates. So 
Here's another piece of anecdotal evidence for ya. I got an unsolicited email from a woman a few weeks back. She was 5'10" and her profile clearly stipulated ~5'11" and under need not apply~. She was interested in me despite my being off her 'requirement' by 6". In the email she said was intrigued by my interests in outdoorsman-type activities. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 10:21:49 AM | | Jonathan, i was trying to say men have certain physical traits that they like to see on women( whatever they are) but they don't hang on to that "preference" once they find the woman has is attractive in other areas(i.e personality, sex....etc;)...also it sounded like you were saying women would put up with cheating when their with a "tall" man, or a "tall" man is has a bigger chance of cheating....am i right? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 8:16:40 PM | also it sounded like you were saying women would put up with cheating when their with a "tall" man, or a "tall" man is has a bigger chance of cheating....am i right?
That is right.
There have already been a few studies on this, and they have all found that tall men are much more likely to cheat than short men. Of course, the reason for this is not that short men are more moral than tall men. The reason is that tall men have many more choices than short men, and so (on average) they have many more affairs than short men.
Also, notice that women tend to have height requirements and not height preferences. Men tend to have preferences. Very few men make hard requirements which rule out whole groups of diverse women based on a single characteristic. There are a lot of men who don't like fat women. But almost none of those men would pass up a fat woman if she had other factors which compensated for their weight.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 8:19:52 PM | erm, how about, that is wrong? Actually **** it your ALL WRONG!
this heightism business lives in your heads! GET OVER something you can't change and be confident in the person you are! Above all confidence in YOURSELF will land you quality women not your freakin' height!
Its all in your head, Joe. All in your head. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 8:35:09 PM | | Al I can say is that I am glad a woman posted this. Kate, I applaud you for being yourself and not what peer pressure has told you what to do. Just go for a man that appreciates you is all you should go for. When men say that there aren't any real women around, they should look your way. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 9:39:05 PM | | For me, it's a comfort thing. I'm not short (5'7") and I'm not very thin, so if I stand next to a guy that's shorter than me, I tend to feel self-conscious about my own body. I don't think of myself as someone with low self-esteem, but that's my honest answer. I wouldn't be opposed to dating a shorter guy, but I would prefer taller. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 9:51:37 PM | | Short guys ... I can't believe that this is still a considered topic -- a lot of repeat info ... give the "short guys" a break already ... I've met a lot of great "short guys" ... I'm short - 5'2" ... I'm more interested in what we would have in common/interests/ how I am treated/ likes/ dislikes/ looks etc, etc ... some short guys only like tall women ... whatever floats your boat ... | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 10:00:41 PM | "erm, how about, that is wrong? Actually **** it your ALL WRONG!
this heightism business lives in your heads! GET OVER something you can't change and be confident in the person you are! Above all confidence in YOURSELF will land you quality women not your freakin' height!
Its all in your head, Joe. All in your head. "
If only it was that simple.
heightism is REAL if it wasn't you wouldn't have organizations like NOSSA and states like Michigan and passing anti heightism laws even Ontario Canada has a law that prohibits height discrimination under the human rights code. Sperm banks have height minimums.
it's real my friend VERY real.
Having confidence is great but I'd rather know what I'm facing then live in ignorance or denial.
You wouldn't tell a black person or an ethnic minority racism is all "in his head" would you? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/15/2008 10:04:59 PM | | Folkgirl - I feel the same as you. As 5'5" and size 10 I don't want to feel like I overpower (stronger) my man. I feel more secure and protected in a sense with a man who's taller (and heavier). My "perfect" height? 5'10" but I've dated 5'7" and I've dated 6'6"... | |
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