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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 2:54:39 PM | Jonathan Doeman
as i stated in the last forum...don't ask, don't tell! a man wanted womens perspective on why some prefer an individual who is taller. now this thread has turned angry and hateful because we gave what was asked and then attacked for it...*sigh* whether we like it or not, we as the human race will discriminate against others for something. everyone is superficial...some more than others, but oh well that's life. i've been discriminated against because i'm too tall! but oh well, life's tough, get a helmet!
keep squawking and having your pity party. i have more productive things to do than worry about what someone else thinks of me or worry about why they don't like me or find me attractive when i know there are people out there who like me the way i am. (this reminds me of the timbaland song "the way i are"  )
take care all and hope you all find someone who will appreciate who you are, the way you are! | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:08:23 PM | ^^^oh that must be it norseviking! that's just as pety as if i were to say that the shorter men are still single because they are short! we're all here for the same reasons...why trash one another because we're single? some us actually truly enjoy the single life. i'm not saying that to be hateful or anything, however no one has indicated here that people are single BECAUSE of something. isn't that the point of being on POF?
I was not being pety or spiteful at all. Nor was I claiming that Everyone here wants a relationship. Way to go for taking me way out of context. I was and am one of the few people here that does not GENERALIZE the sexes. Where did I use ALL women or ALL men in anything I wrote??? I was not trashing other people eiteher. merely I was explaining that hightism exists. Do I want pity for being short. F U C K that. Was I angry in my other posts? NO! Am I angry now? Perturbed but not angry.
I said that "MAYBE" that is why they are still single. MAYBe being the oporative word here.
as i stated in the last forum...don't ask, don't tell! a man wanted womens perspective on why some prefer an individual who is taller. now this thread has turned angry and hateful because we gave what was asked and then attacked for it...*sigh* whether we like it or not, we as the human race will discriminate against others for something. everyone is superficial...some more than others, but oh well that's life. i've been discriminated against because i'm too tall! but oh well, life's tough, get a helmet!
keep squawking and having your pity party. i have more productive things to do than worry about what someone else thinks of me or worry about why they don't like me or find me attractive when i know there are people out there who like me the way i am. (this reminds me of the timbaland song "the way i are" )
take care all and hope you all find someone who will appreciate who you are, the way you are!
I do not see Johathan Doeman or I or any body asking for pity here. Nor was I trying to change minds, merely OPEN MINDS. There is a big differne.
And what about all the name calling and angry posts and arguments. i see this more asa serious debate. I see a lot of people are missing my point all together. Short men have to broaden our horizens to even get a date, and have to be less puicky. Tall ugly guys have it a little easier than Good looking short guys. I have to work with what nature provided for me to have. Is there pity in what I say? on the contrary. All I am saying is if more people looked out of the box like a short man as I , maybe there would be less people complaining about being single. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:09:52 PM | a man wanted womens perspective on why some prefer an individual who is taller. now this thread has turned angry and hateful because we gave what was asked and then attacked for it...
Please read what cg789 stated below. She perfectly explains why many women are being attacked. BTW cg789 is very tall attractive woman ( 5' 10" ). I'm 5' 11". Therefore it's not just "bitter, ugly" short men who are "complaining" about this issue.
I ( and other people ) have mentioned this before and it is worth repeating. It's not necessary the height preference or requirement itself that offends people. It's the reasons that many women give for their height preference or requirement that offends people. A taller man can "protect" a man better, taller men better have genes, short men have "Napoleon Complex" among others etc.
All of these reasons listed in the above quote are based on false stereotypes. If a man stated that he didn't like tall women, fat women, black women, older women, blondes etc because of some false stereotypical reason, I'm sure that many women ( especially the ones that belong to these groups ) would be offended. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:13:28 PM |
I am not trying to change anyone, merely stating that some people have absurd notions about hight. Im 5'6" and I concider that short. I do not mind dating a woman 6' tall wearing 7 inch heals. I am not hung up on hight like most of you ( not all of you). I am hung up on the fact that all to many women have a hang up with hight even if the declare otherwise.
Good points all.
But, have you considered that this phenomenon might be a single branch of a much larger tree?
I've notice that a lot of posts have seemingly attacked women as the pervayers of heightism. I think that this is false, and that women are almost as much of a "victim" (for lack of a better term) of height bigotry as short men.
That is, I think that both men and women (who make up society) are comfortable with height bigotry. They generally believe that shorter people are inferior to taller people. This effects all of us in the perceptions that we have of others and how we treat other people. Scientists have shown that taller people tend to make more money, are chosen more often for leadership roles, and are viewed as more competent and confident. Shorter people are generally viewed as less competent, more immature, taken less seriously, and are seen as less socially desirable (generally). These social biases and stereotypes are amplified in male height.
Under this framework, it make sense for very short women to insist on tall men, and not simply men who are taller than them. This is because society will still view a short man as inferior, even though he happens to be taller than her. Therefore, she avoids any "doubt" of her sexual worth by attracting only tall men as oppose to attracting a man that many people (men and women) will view as inferior.
It is a shallow way of thinking, but at least it makes sense when one understands the nature and pervasiveness of height bigotry.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:27:14 PM |
It is a shallow way of thinking, but at least it makes sense when one understands the nature and pervasiveness of height bigotry.
I can not agree more. That is why I said I have no quams dating a taller woman. They have it as bad as short men if not worse. If I saw a woman that I concidered atractive, and was 6'+ and loved wearing heals, I would still pursue her. I would make sure she felt beautiful and as sexy as I think she is. It may not be a prefference of mine to date someone that tall, but it is not a requirement of mine to date only those 4'11-5'10". I am not into hightism oe sizism at any rate. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 4:28:20 PM | Something that I think makes this discussion difficult - not everyone is discussing the same things.
First of all - there's preference v. requirement. I certainly have preferences, most everyone does, but I'm not ruled by them. I don't state physical preferences in my profile because I really find a wide range of types attractive, and I'd rather not place more limits on an already limited pool. When I read a profile, which are frequently no more than a few paragraphs, I always assume that whatever the writer chooses to put in those few 'graphs is very important to them - if not a deal breaker, close to it. And I'm wondering how many other people also feel that way, and how many might think that would be a misinterpretation. Maybe something to think about when writing a profile.
Then there's requirement. Some profiles clearly state that a certain minimum height is required. Many women say they just want their man to be taller. Most women will get taller mates because most men are taller than most women. Even in heels. This fact makes us accustomed to seeing taller man/shorter woman couples - certainly that's most everyone's mom and dad experience. I do know some happy couples where the woman is taller, and a couple of cases where the woman towers over her mate. (The mother of a friend used to tell stories about a couple she knew - a big, strong Maine farm girl who married a midget. And he cheated on her.)
Logically, if height shouldn't matter it shouldn't matter in any case, but I have a lot of difficulty reacting in a similar fashion to a woman who wants someone her height, and a woman 5'2" who wants some at least 5'10". Sorry, but to me that is shallow. And spare me the straw man about coercing someone to 'settle' - you have a right to your preference, and I have a right to me opinion. And I pass profiles like that right by. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 7:53:23 PM |
*loislane* wrote: This is such a good point! Thank heaven for the leg and butt men! I think this is why (being that I am light-topped) I don't have trouble pulling leaves off trees. Being tall, I'm blessed with some pretty nice legs (if I do say so myself) and well, my derriere has been compared to both, J. Lo.'s and Beyonce's. (Not too sure if that is really a good thing.) However, I work out to stay in shape but I never wanna loose those curves. Mr. 5'8" was a breast man to the nth degree and didn't care at all for the attributes I did possess and because I was quite a bit younger than I am today, he was able to wound my self-esteem during the year and a half we dated.
However, in the male circles I've traveled I've noticed... if having a giant rack means you have got an equally large tummy, those men prefer little bitties over great big guns. It just helps me that I have the applebottom and brickhouse legs to boot. Again, there are some men who just love bigger gals and wouldn't go for me under any circumstance. I understand and respect their choice. It's not a personal affront to me, they like what they like, as do I.
Yeah, I'm a leg & butt man. Usually when a woman has big breasts, she's big everywhere else too. If a woman is over 200 or 300 pounds, then I'm not going to be attracted to her, no matter what positive attributes she has. If that makes me shallow, then so be it.
I don't agree with this. Real Coke lovers, of which I am one, don't like Pepsi. I actually despise it. I wouldn't opt for Pepsi, if Coke were not available. I would have either another Coke product or water...and not Aquafina. That is what brand marketing has done to me. I do I blame the ad makers for putting Michael Jordan on every Coke product when I was in my formative years? No. I don't because it's my choice and I have the power to change my mind whenever I want. The only thing I don't want...is Pepsi in my glass. Obviously, I am not that rigid when it comes to men, however, if I was that would be my choice too.
Edited to add: I have tasted Pepsi and genuinely don't like the taste. Wanted to be clear, so people wouldn't think I hated something without having sampled it. LOL.
I put myself in the category of a real Coke lover. If I'm in a Pepsi restaurant (there are a lot since Pepsi tends to give better deals to restauranteurs than Coke does), then I'll opt for Dr. Pepper. However, if given the choice between Pepsi and RC Cola, then I'll choose Pepsi. In 1985 Coke put out a new formula for Coke and that didn't do too well (because it tasted like Pepsi), so they reverted back to Coke Classic, which is what we have today. Pepsi tends to do better in some countries. In Brazil it was much easier to find Pepsi than Coke. Down there they have a refreshing drink called Guaraná. Once I ordered that on a flight within Brazil and the Brazilian sitting next to me ordered a Pepsi.
I like Lenny Kravitz' music too. Songs like "Are you gonna go my way?" and "I wanna fly away" (perfect song for advertising travel), they rock! 
I also like the heavier stuff. Look up "Sepultura Rappa" on YouTube. Sepultura and Brazilian reggae group O Rappa have a song together called "Ninguém regula a América (Nobody f***s with America)" sung in both English and Portuguese. Interestingly enough, they did this song in 2001 months before 9/11 happened. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:10:44 PM | Why can't there be more women like cg789.
You've got to be kidding me vix...Comparing smoking and height. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:17:31 PM | | Remember, it was a man, Randy Newman, who wrote the song: "Short people got no reason to liiiiiiiiiiiive." | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:46:08 PM | Im probably going to get kicked for saying this , but here goes. I find shorter guys
have a self-esteem problem. They are smaller and like a bantam rooster in the
barn yard, like to 'crow' alot. I have dated men that are around my height and every
time have run into serious trouble. They were way more possessive and jealous
than their taller male counterparts and so, to me its an insecurity thing big time.
Ive noticed the same type of traits in my shorter uncles/cousins. I find a taller
man doesnt have that 'mean' edge to himself and isnt out to prove anything. I dont
know if I would even be interested anymore with dating a shorter man bc of the
trouble Ive had. This has only been my experience, however, and yes, you cant
tar everyone with the same brush. But too many experiences of downright nastiness
and mean-spiritedness has left me cold when it comes to dating them. Glad to see
your experiences have been better than mine. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:31:39 PM |
Remember, it was a man, Randy Newman, who wrote the song: "Short people got no reason to liiiiiiiiiiiive."
I happen to love that song. it is a great and inventive use of Irony and sarcasm. he is actually writing against hate in all it's ugly forms. I feel we all have reasons to live and breath. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:38:13 PM |
Im probably going to get kicked for saying this , but here goes. I find shorter guys
have a self-esteem problem. They are smaller and like a bantam rooster in the
barn yard, like to 'crow' alot. I have dated men that are around my height and every
time have run into serious trouble. They were way more possessive and jealous
than their taller male counterparts and so, to me its an insecurity thing big time.
Ive noticed the same type of traits in my shorter uncles/cousins. I find a taller
man doesnt have that 'mean' edge to himself and isnt out to prove anything. I dont
know if I would even be interested anymore with dating a shorter man bc of the
trouble Ive had. This has only been my experience, however, and yes, you cant
tar everyone with the same brush. But too many experiences of downright nastiness
and mean-spiritedness has left me cold when it comes to dating them. Glad to see
your experiences have been better than mine.
I feel bad that you have met such a rotten cross section of shorter males. Not all Short men have self-esteem issues..but can you blame them for having said issues. Media, People like yourself, going to school, evolution, etc,etc...These things make it easy for a short man to hate himself.
Still, not all short men are like this. I happen to think I have a very good self esteem.
Thoise that had poor self confidece or a lower self opinion, could have used a little more TLC, and maybe they would not continue to have low self esteem after dating them. There are short men like me in the world, though we may be few. If you are turned off too the lot because of the few you met, I am sorry to hear that. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 5:19:52 AM | | I don't know why anyone is comparing things like Smoking and weight issue to height, I figured anyone would have figured out by now that you can't do anything about height. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 6:43:33 AM | I find shorter guys have a self-esteem problem. They are smaller and like a bantam rooster in the barn yard, like to 'crow' alot. I have dated men that are around my height and every time have run into serious trouble. They were way more possessive and jealous than their taller male counterparts and so, to me its an insecurity thing big time. Often people "pidgeonhole" their viewpoint on someone based mostly on personal prejudice. You may notice the "rooster" behavior more in short people because you look for it and expect it from them; yet if a taller guy displayed that same behavior, it's likely dismissed as an abberation.
There definitely is height bias occuring every day not only in dating but non-dating scenarios. Some of the absolute worst work experiences I've had involve tall executive men just completely blowing their stack at me because of mistakes on their own part. At the of their blowups, I just attributed their rotten behavior due to them being assholes. Now looking back at these work episodes with a little more savvy, these tall guys were just probably used to people falling at their feet following their every command, they probably just held in their feelings when frustrated instead of venting them in a healthy way, then when things turned south on them the only thing they could do is just explode in rage.
People might just notice shorter guys "roostering" around because they have a personality that requires attention, just like these two tall executive guys who blew up at me at work. But since they are short, they need to make more of an effort to acquire that attention. The tall guy just has everybody falling at their feet. They don't need to make the same effort, often they'll just do the easy thing and not think things through carefully. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 6:48:30 AM | Kate,
I'm 5'8" and any guy under 5'7" (which is pushing it) makes me feel like a giant and it's hard to feel sexy when you feel monstrous!
However, a shorter-than-me guy with a stocky (not chubby) build balances....
Cathy | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 6:55:34 AM | | "Short man's complex" is an unfair stereotype, I think. I've dated tall men who were overly-self confident and full of themselves, but I can't classify all tall men that way. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 7:01:19 AM | tkdblake93,
"Yeah, I'm a leg & butt man. Usually when a woman has big breasts, she's big everywhere else too. If a woman is over 200 or 300 pounds, then I'm not going to be attracted to her, no matter what positive attributes she has. If that makes me shallow, then so be it."
That is why this whole argument gets on my nerves. Having a preference and knowing what you like and not being apologetic for it, does not make you shallow. That is my stance and it's unwavering.
IMO, you could prefer a woman with three breasts. That's your preference, does it mean you are likely to get it, well, it IS unlikely, however, go for what you know. If a two-breasted woman came along with everything else you are attracted to, I think you'd go for her too, your preference notwithstanding.   That was mentioned in jest, of course.
"Pepsi tends to do better in some countries. In Brazil it was much easier to find Pepsi than Coke. Down there they have a refreshing drink called Guaraná. Once I ordered that on a flight within Brazil and the Brazilian sitting next to me ordered a Pepsi."
I found this to be surprisingly true. While in Scandanavia, my sis-n-law told me that Pepsi was way more popular (I asked for Coke at a restaurant) to the point that Coke products were sometimes hard to find. She also admitted that Scandanavians (of which she is one) have blander tastes when it comes to food and the like. Also, while in the Mediterrean, I found Coke and Coke products, ie, Fanta to be exceedingly popular. So, maybe it has to do with the water, climates and food cultures of those two regions.
"I like Lenny Kravitz' music too. Songs like "Are you gonna go my way?" and "I wanna fly away" (perfect song for advertising travel), they rock! "
Yeah, I love Lenny. I saw him in 2002 and he's coming here to Prague in June. If I'm not in NYC for holiday, I will be jamming to him here. 
That reminds me I owe 4DH an email  | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 7:05:58 AM |
I'm 5'8" and any guy under 5'7" (which is pushing it) makes me feel like a giant and it's hard to feel sexy when you feel monstrous! This is an interesting opinion for shorter guys to take note of. I'm of average height (5'10"); now I don't particularly pursue nor discount pursuing a woman specifically on her height, whether she is tall (5'6" and higher) or not. However, should I decide to pursue a "tall" woman, and I sense she rejects me because she doesn't "feel sexy" or she "feels like a monster", she's really doing me a big favor. I'm not wasting time attempting to develop a relationship with a woman who is "uncomfortable in her own skin". I find that quality very appealing in a woman. I wouldn't want to date a woman, no matter how attractive I find her, if she's of that insecure ilk. That is non-plussing behavior. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 7:20:10 AM | Bikeman...I have noticed this...that women won't date g uys the SAME ht as a man either.
Esp if they are getting CLOSE to a guy in ht
A 5'8" woman (which is getting around the "Tall" range for a woman) won't date a 5'8" man.
Sometimes a 5'7" woman won't date a 5'8" man. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 8:00:43 AM |
women won't date g uys the SAME ht as a man either...Esp if they are getting CLOSE to a guy in ht This sort of woman has some sort of internal "heel" calculation going on in her head.
I got to reiterate that women who summarily dismiss guys after a quick glance at their height really do that guy a favor. She's likely got many other superficialities or hangups that would prove to be troublesome. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 1:36:56 PM |
*loislane* wrote: That is why this whole argument gets on my nerves. Having a preference and knowing what you like and not being apologetic for it, does not make you shallow. That is my stance and it's unwavering.
IMO, you could prefer a woman with three breasts. That's your preference, does it mean you are likely to get it, well, it IS unlikely, however, go for what you know. If a two-breasted woman came along with everything else you are attracted to, I think you'd go for her too, your preference notwithstanding. That was mentioned in jest, of course.
Back in 2005 I was talking to a woman online and she had most of the qualities I was looking for. She liked to travel and had similar kinks, but she was just too overweight. Maybe it's "my loss", but not really. Even a woman like that can find friends with benefits even if she can't find a meaningful relationship. And come to think of it, she did have friends with benefits and I'm not really into that scene.
I found this to be surprisingly true. While in Scandanavia, my sis-n-law told me that Pepsi was way more popular (I asked for Coke at a restaurant) to the point that Coke products were sometimes hard to find. She also admitted that Scandanavians (of which she is one) have blander tastes when it comes to food and the like. Also, while in the Mediterrean, I found Coke and Coke products, ie, Fanta to be exceedingly popular. So, maybe it has to do with the water, climates and food cultures of those two regions.
Yeah, some Scandinavians can have downright nasty tastes in food. Lutefisk in Norway, for example. German-Americans in states like Minnesota may prepare lutefisk, but they themselves are not going to eat it. One positive thing about soda drinks in other countries is that they use real sugar instead of HFCS (high-fructose corn syrup). Fanta in other countries taste sweeter as a result.
Yeah, I love Lenny. I saw him in 2002 and he's coming here to Prague in June. If I'm not in NYC for holiday, I will be jamming to him here.
That'll work. Concerts are always fun. I haven't been to one since 2002, but if there's a group I really like in town, I'll make it a point to go see them. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 1:41:32 PM |
bikeman_ wrote: This sort of woman has some sort of internal "heel" calculation going on in her head.
I got to reiterate that women who summarily dismiss guys after a quick glance at their height really do that guy a favor. She's likely got many other superficialities or hangups that would prove to be troublesome.
I agree. Especially if a woman gets nasty (and not in a good way) with a guy because he's not "tall enough", then who needs that b**** anyway?!? She'll probably find some tall sucker (not saying all tall guys are suckers) who will support her (and her kids, if she has any). | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:06:51 PM | Its not easy being short. I'm a short guy of 5'3 and a half inches tall. in the past 3 weeks I ahve been rejected many times for being too short. there are many men out there shorter than myself. And for a woman to reject me for being 3 inches shorter than her is silly. Or to even get turned down becuase we are the same height or she is shorter than myself and wants a guy to be 5'10 minimum. I say we are allt he ssame size lying down. And people in gerneral don't care. But many women are self concious, shallow, and think everyone is watching them and talking about them and looking down upon them and constntly judging them ont he company they keep and what they look like. so vein. that;s why some women make friends with really fat girls so that it makes them look thinner and I ahve met women who admitted to this. And why some of them won;t date shrot guys becuase others will think oll of them.
Stop caring about what others think and think for yourself ladies! Seriously I ahve ahd women who foudn em attractive, liked what I had to say in my profile and even enjoyed conversations with me only to look over my profile another time and cancel a date or change their mind and reject me base don my height.
Can you imagien how it feels to be rejected for ebing short when the woman is the same height as you or even shorter. Stop the hypocrisy! I call shenanigans! Jsut me for who I am and love me for who I am not how you think others will perceive you, me, or yourself. People are stupid in general and I don;t give a crap what joe blow thinks. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:15:55 PM |
for a woman to reject me for being 3 inches shorter than her is silly.
Silly for you perhaps but not silly for them. We all have requirements or preferences that others find silly but that are deal breakers for us.
Stop caring about what others think
Yes indeed stop caring what others think. When you get shot down go out and try again. Stop caring so much what the women who don't want you think and concentrate on the women who do want you.
People are stupid in general .
Yes this nasty attitude of yours pervades just about every post you have ever made. I think you have bigger troubles then just being short. You are hateful and nasty which is an extremely unattractive quality. Nobody wants to be around a mean pessimistic person. Try looking on the bright side of things and be a little more optimistic. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:25:58 PM |
Its not easy being short. I'm a short guy of 5'3 and a half inches tall. in the past 3 weeks I ahve been rejected many times for being too short. there are many men out there shorter than myself. And for a woman to reject me for being 3 inches shorter than her is silly. Or to even get turned down becuase we are the same height or she is shorter than myself and wants a guy to be 5'10 minimum.
Good points.
But you have to understand that these women are judging men's heights in comparison to other men. That explains why very short women often reject short men on the sole basis of height. The man is taller than them, but because he is shorter than most other men, they often view him as inferior (via heightism).
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