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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:26:21 PM | that hollyperson is definetly trying to start a flame war oh well the viking and the person above me put her place back to the original discussion.
"If you were referring to the protector thing. Humans have invented weapons for this purpose. A Glock makes a better protector than any man."
exactly, hence we no longer live in the age of the warrior we live in the age of the soldier a tall man is no match for an armed attacker. (unless he is armed himself)
hence probably why there is no height requirement to join the armed services.
A weapon is the ultimate equalizer in a fight even Chuck Liddell would be helpless against a .45 | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:27:34 PM |
hollylikexmas:
we are all thinking it
i'm just the one that had enough guts to say it
Honey, you're 19 years old. You are very welcome to your own opinion and preferences but I suggest you get a little living under your belt (and a few English classes) before you presume to speak for the rest of us.
Word up! | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 12:52:12 AM | I know it is shallow..
But I guy has to be smokin hot with big muscles if he's under 6' .
Something to do with feeling more like a woman with a tall guy.
But big guns will compensate for lack of height somtimes. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 1:17:43 AM |
I know it is shallow..
But I guy has to be smokin hot with big muscles if he's under 6' .
Yes, it is shallow. But it is also quite dumb.
First of all, men over 6'0" only make up 20% of the male population, and that's counting only white men, both married and single. Cut that number in half to divide the married from the unmarried and that number goes down to 10%. Then figure in compatibility on factors other than height, and you can cut out another half. So you end up with a dating pool which represents 5% of the male population. Good luck.
And why six feet? Why did you pick that arbitrary number? This is why the U.S. should move to the metric system, like the rest of the world. I think that a lot of this insanity would go away if we took away the magic sounding "six feet tall" and converted it to "183 centimeters tall".
Look at how dumb this statement sounds now:
"But a guy has to be smokin hot with big muscles if he's under 183cm".
Does anyone see how arbitrary that is?
It's like, "Oh no; I don't feel like a woman next to a 170cm guy and I'm afraid that he won't be able to protect me." 
Maybe that's why women in Europe are less height obsessed. Maybe it's simply because they use the metric system. I don't know; just a thought.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 1:21:29 AM |
okay
short guys
honestly
unless your mindblowing sexy
most girls won't want you
sorry but that's reality
i once dated a short guy
and he was unbelievable sexy
but i noticed that i started to buy shoes that were all flat
and i would try not to get to close to him in public because then people would notice that we were pratically the same height
after a while
it came down to height
don't get me wrong
i'm not tall myself (5'4)
and i'm very petite
but short guys even make me feel huge
it's just whenever i think of a short guy
i think of snow white and the seven drawfs
who wants to date a drawf?
now i know that some people
may be upset about these comments
but hey it's reality
we are all thinking it
i'm just the one that had enough guts to say it
I think this post proves my theory that a lot of this is social and not biological. That a lot of this is simple old-fashioned height bigotry having an affect on romantic relationships. Notice that her issue with short men is purely social and not based on attraction. She gets the constant message from society that shorter men are inferior, and so this affects her perceptions of men who are attracted to her, if they happen to be short.
So there's your key, short guys. Fight height bigotry on a broader scale (the basic idea that taller people are intrinsically superior to shorter people) and this will eventually go away. But probably not in our lifetimes.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:23:39 AM | hollylikexmas wrote: i once dated a short guy
and he was unbelievable sexy
but i noticed that i started to buy shoes that were all flat
and i would try not to get to close to him in public because then people would notice that we were pratically the same height
after a while
it came down to height
don't get me wrong
i'm not tall myself (5'4)
and i'm very petite
but short guys even make me feel huge
it's just whenever i think of a short guy
i think of snow white and the seven drawfs
who wants to date a drawf?
It seems like someone here is too concerned about what others might think. The way I look at it, unless they're giving me a high-paying job or paying my bills, I don't care what others might think. And really, people are too self-preoccupied to care about what others are doing. Sure, your friends and family may give you a hard time if the guy is about your height or shorter, but if they find out he's a great guy it won't matter to them either.
At 19 your comments can be forgiven, but unfortunately there are older women who think the same way. I think it has to do with wanting a trophy partner to show off to family, friends, and co-workers. Bragging rights. "Look at what I got!" Then again, I've seen plenty of tall guys marry short rather plain-looking gals who I probably wouldn't date myself unless I got to know them better and liked them as a person. After all, looks do fade over time. The advice given to guys is to meet the woman's mother and you'll see what your woman will look like in 20 years.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of Western girls are being spoiled rotten by their fathers, some of whom are tall guys themselves. It's a theory, but these women in adulthood are looking for a guy to take over the "daddy" role. I'll bet that hollylikexmas hasn't ever had to work in her life. Everything has probably been given to her. On the other hand, last week I met a 17-year-old girl who's quite mature for a girl her age. She lives with her boyfriend and works for measly wages while finishing her last year in high school. I'm sure she'd love to be in a privileged situation, but she's not and she does her best with the cards dealt to her. Like I said, she's more mature than many women even twice her age because she's had to fend for herself. That's one thing I've found out about the foreign women I've dated in the past. Their fathers weren't able to give them as much as Western dads are often able to do, so these women have had to fend for themselves and make their own way in the world while retaining their femininity.
Ron Jeremy is 5'6". If he looked more like Tom Cruise, Keith Urban, or Kenny Chesney, he probably would have slept with more women than he has, and he's been with thousands of women. That's due to his being in the porn industry since the 1970s. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:31:28 AM |
who wants to date a drawf?
now i know that some people
may be upset about these comments
but hey it's reality
we are all thinking it
What goes on between your ears can be considered 'thought' to the same extent that the deliberations a toad goes through before catching a fly can be considered thought. Please - Please - Please - use birth control. And watch your weight - you're only a teen and you already look chunky.
But i'm 5'11 and 230 lbs.I am very strong and let me tell you i wish i was about 6'4" atleast.
I once saw a picture of a woman with a very large chest wearing a T-shirt that said 'I wish these were brains'. I suppose you think your height is why you don't get dates? Maybe it's because your a moron.
I know it is shallow..
But I guy has to be smokin hot with big muscles if he's under 6' .
What do they see about things coming in threes? Dear, your profile says you're a young 34 - yes indeed. About 12, I'd say.
There are some women, not many, who've argued for height preferences whose intelligence I really do respect - and you know who you are - but honestly, is this the company you like to keep? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:49:05 AM | I'm short so height doesn't bother me at all. My ex husband is short, my last lover was huge and tall. If anything, the physical mechanics of sex with a tall guy is very different. Not bad or good but different.
The one thing that I find a turn off in short guys is if they get the bantam rooster thing going on. The chip on their shoulder from being short. That's a big turn off for me. I want to know that a guy is happy in his own skin. Being self-conscious about being short is not sexy. This is who you are, enjoy it.
I'm quite attracted to a guy right now and he isn't tall. But he is so beautiful. A nice body, wicked smile, gorgeous eyes. But what I'm attracted to most is the wicked sense of humour. Height for me anyway, isn't an issue. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:55:28 AM | | Oh, and the protector thing. Bah. Never felt too protected by any guy. If anything I find some of them to be violence magnets. Big guys want to fight a big guy and see if they can win. I own a big dog. She's my protector, and I can tell her when to stand down that I don't need her right now and she listens. With a big guy getting into it with someone...I can only walk away. Maybe call 911 if it gets too hot. Who needs the drama? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:20:10 AM |
As soon as she apologizes for saying stuff like this, I'll apologize.
tdk......SHE was not PERSONALLY bashing you. YOU'RE the one that made it personal, and I think you DO owe the lady an apology. You were out of line. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:36:36 AM |
Its just not right i tried dating a short guy ugh nope! i was scared i break him when we were in bed doing the deed
Yes, shame on you tdk ... saying something like that to a lady of delicate sensibility.
Burp! | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:38:16 AM |
tdk......SHE was not PERSONALLY bashing you. YOU'RE the one that made it personal, and I think you DO owe the lady an apology. You were out of line.
If I made it personal, then I apologize. I was just saying she wasn't all that either. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:39:44 AM | really amazing stuff
women of age 18 with so much experience already are speaking their minds,,,,haha, well, even though it's socially acceptable to be having sex at age 12 these days, i think people need to grow up and not even begin to date, not even a kiss till at least age 21 so they'd be able to use their brains and figure out what's important in life before being caught up in the usual dumb thinking that pervades society.
women keep sinking to new lows here. too bad they lack the logic to understand what they are doing.
short gals so often want a guy who's a foot taller than them and claim only tall guys hit on them, lol, they are likely blind to the shorter ones and are myopic to the taller ones, getting all giddy when a tall guy approaches her and can't say no to him, allowing herself to be abused freely by the guy, as is often the case when relinquishing power to someone in a brainless fashion.
and to think when they are fat already at age 18 or older and fat they expect men to come running to them because they have a hole between their legs...and if they bothered to do something about their gluttony they'd be able to improve.
there is nothing wrong with the normal range of men. preferences should naturally exist as long as there is a rational basis for it and women who bash short men lack valid reasons, however there is validity in a man finding an obese woman unnatractive as she got her self into her shape from lacking strength in mind to stop her poor choices.
well all guys can't group together and boycott women as the taller guys will still get their 2:1 advantage and women so much want it that way so they can feel sorry for their divorced with kids situation and being cheated on or left by the guy because too many other viscious women are wanting the same type of man.
women's brains are something else. if they were trained to think only short men were good they'd be shutting out the tall guys and would be making lame excuses yet again.
can you all see what's going on here? | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:40:35 AM |
The one thing that I find a turn off in short guys is if they get the bantam rooster thing going on. The chip on their shoulder from being short. That's a big turn off for me.
O.k., but do those "bantam rooster" guys have a chip on their shoulder from being short? Or do they have a chip on their shoulder from how OTHER PEOPLE view them being short? The second one is most logical. I've found that most people don't have a problem with their height because it carries no significant function that is independent of the opinions of other people.
We do have step ladders, after all. If someone has a "height problem", it's not the short folks, it's the taller height bigots.
just my opinion.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:47:15 AM |
SHE was not PERSONALLY bashing you. YOU'RE the one that made it personal...
Is tdk a short guy? I don't know because I've never peeked his profile. But if so, then the insult that she hurled WAS personal. If a person insults a group that you are part of, then isn't that personal?
It would be like her using a racial slur, and a black guy insults her back. And then you come on and say "Hey, she was not personally calling YOU a Ni**er, You're the one that made it personal...she was just talking about Ni**ers in general, so there is no reason to be upset.
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:23:33 AM | Geez Louise, reading the comments by women with heightism prejudices sort of explains why the concept of heterosexual marriage today has been pretty much flushed down the toilet. Is it any wonder why men hesitate to get married to women?
(1) entitlement issues
(2) woman targets tall guys, tall guy cheats because he knows he's highly coveted (like a hot chick), woman bemoans marriage and thinks all guys are cheaters
(3) woman "takes a chance" on "Napoleon complex" shorter guy, decides "she ain't settling" and cheats on him with tall guy "she always knew she needed", man bemoans marriage and thinks all women are cheaters
(4) divorce laws grossly in favor of women despite their rationalized adulterous dalliances | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:34:57 AM |
nicegurlmaybe wrote: its just not right i tried dating a short guy ugh nope! i was scared i break him when we were in bed doing the deed i like dating taller guys cuz i have that safe comfort feeling. in which i dont get with short guys.
There's the post that has been causing such controversy. The poster obviously thought that she was going to "break" a shorter man if she got all rowdy on top of him in bed. I guess she's never had Ron Jeremy, who at 5'6" has had sex with thousands of women in his adult film career spanning 3 or 4 decades. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:41:36 AM |
First of all, men over 6'0" only make up 20% of the male population, and that's counting only white men, both married and single. Cut that number in half to divide the married from the unmarried and that number goes down to 10%. Then figure in compatibility on factors other than height, and you can cut out another half. So you end up with a dating pool which represents 5% of the male population. Good luck.
I don't have a "height" requirement on my profile... actually I don't really have any requirements on my profile other than no drug users and no married men..
However, reading the above makes me wonder why some people think it's important to keep one's dating pool as large as possible. I'm REALLY picky about who I spend time with... and my "standards" are such that I couldn't even put them on my profile.. they are pretty subtle.. like, "No dumbasses" but how does one qualify that? I just have to speak with a guy first to see if he's an idiot (sometimes their profile screams "dumbass.. but not always). Yes.. sometimes it's physical attractiveness that catches my eye, but then there has to be more to the guy than just a pretty face or height to keep my attention. I like hazel eyes.. I wonder what percentage of the population has hazel eyes? It doesn't matter to me if that cuts down my "dating" pool because.... I'd rather be alone than with someone I'm not attracted to.. same as I have seen several men here who are smokin' hot, smart... funny.. I'd LOVE to date them, but they live in England or Australia, or California... I just can't do that, it's way too far. I've spoken with some men who are marvelous... but they are over 59... I'm 42.. women live longer than men on average...as nice as they are I don't want to go there. I've spoken with some really super men who are seriously overweight. Sorry, but I am just not sexually attracted to people who are overweight. Friends? sure.. lovers? no. I've been messaged by guys who are in their twenties... again, smokin' hot.. AND nice. But I have to delete them from my "pool" as well.. what the heck would we talk about after the hot monkey sex? Raves? No..they are not for me. I've decided against dating some men whom.. though I REALLY like who they are as people..I'm just not physically attracted to. I know myself well enough to know that having sex with someone who doesn't physically ring my bell is something I can not do.. no matter HOW incredible they are as a person. It would be dishonest and cruel to lead them on. However.. physical likes and dislikes are a pretty personal thing... and you CAN NOT intellectualize that. Example: I dated a guy once I really liked, we got along, had a lot in common, he was attractive to me..but when it came down to it I didn't like his personal scent... he was a very clean person, it wasn't about hygiene.. it was his personal chemical signature I could not tolerate.. it repelled me. I don't understand that biologically, but I just couldn't get past it. I had to end it (without being hurtful... he was a really nice guy) Attraction DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.. it isn't logical. It just is.
I think part of the problem is the concept that women (poeple really) HAVE to find a partner. I don't.. and so I can be picky. Now if I was complaining that I couldn't find a partner and had expressed that that was a serious goal.. then I could be criticized for overlooking some men because they didn't meet my ridiculously high standards.. and yes, my standards ARE ridiculously high (for me.. but this is relative) I don't, nor do I think I should have to, apologize for them. That's my right, and my choice to date whom "I" think is right for me.
I think some women make a decision about what they find attractive by trial and error.. and KNOWING what does it for them, and what doesn't. There's no point in trying to change their minds. That would be like telling a guy who is a breast man to only date women who are flatchested.. or a leg man that even if a woman has legs like a tree stump it is "shallow" of him and he should give her a chance. What it will come down to is that he will NOT be as attracted to her as he would someone with a great set of gams... and that WILL affect the relationship.
I do not agree though that arbitrary judgement of a man by height alone (an unexamined bias) is a smart thing. I've been with men from 5'3" to 6'4"... the only thing I saw about height was that the taller guys seemed a bit more relaxed around other men.. not sure why this is, but I suspect it has something to do with heirarchy among men. And yes.. I did see that some of the shorter guys had a bit of a chip, or a tenseness about them. It wasn't always a very serious thing... that depended on how self-confident each particular guy was in himself. I would never put these stereotypes on all guys... because that's just stupid. Honestly I think men are nastier to each other over issues like this than a lot of women are. I was talking with a guy the other day who told me that because he was a "slow bloomer" and was always one of the smaller guys in school he got picked on a lot and had to learn to fight to hold his ground. Sad. But I do not remember the girls EVER being mean to a guy just because of his height in school (I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but not in my group that I can remember) There is competition between men that women never see... I know this.
Somewhere back in time there came a biological imperative that larger males were the more attractive... you can see this in apes... a silverback gorilla (dominant male) is 3 times the size of a female... humans have evolved so that men are, on average, larger.. and I DO believe there is a subconscious genetic attraction for women to choose men who are bigger than them. Does it make modern logical sense? Is it politically correct? No. But biology is an instinctual thing.. it isn't a choice made by the heart or mind but by the genetic drive to procreate viable offspring (I think we might find that younger women who haven't yet had their children yet are more likely to choose a man larger han themselves then women who are done childbearing.. that would be an interesting survey). Some people have overridden this instinct, some haven't. Doesn't make them less evolved though.. it's just something to be aware of. But if biology has made men larger then it has made women smaller.. and has also made men to be more attracted to women who display genetic "female" traits (hip to waist ratio is a proven indicator of female attractiveness to men, and NOT something that can be corrected by surgery.. it DOES explain the attractiveness of the corset though) Desmond Morris's "The Human Ape" is a very interesting study on sexuality in humans and the biological drives behind it.
I understand the feeling of people who feel "left out" because they don't fit the modern standard of "attractiveness". I'm not blond or busty (and have some native indian in my background, so I'm dark also.. I HAVE experienced racism even though I'm 90% European background).. I have narrow hips (no "hourglass" here) Some men find my figure far too boyish to be attractive.. this was emotionally painful to me as a young woman. Yes, it hurts not to be one of the "beautiful" people. But.. I have come to the conclusion that the only person I can change is myself, and I can't even do that in an authentic and healthy way if I don't love myself first, accept who I am, warts and all. There will always be obstacles and limits for people... each one of us has our challenges and unfortunately life is not fair.
I like the saying, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. If one percieves an obstacle that is an opportunity for personal growth and self-actualization.
All said.. I am much more likely to be attracted to the guy who exudes self-acceptance and confidence over one who just rides through life on his genetics.
Peace | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:11:36 AM | Ravenstar, any guy who doesn't want to date you because your skin is too dark or because you don't have "child-bearing" hips is a damn fool.
I carefully read your post agree with most of it. I just don't agree with the premise that attractiveness somehow is "biologically locked" into us. I'd think as someone matures, they get a better sense of what the truly find attractive, and can understand how some of their "biological urges" just don't serve them well at times.
It's not important to keep a "large dating pool" available, rather it's paramount to define what qualities truly are important and to have that pool available. When one keeps dipping into the wrong pool looking for a partner, one will continue to repeat mistakes.
I think you understand that Ravenstar, so if that comment doesn't apply to you, don't be offended by it. If it does apply to you, carefully consider this "wrong pool" vs. "discriminating pool" concept.
That's really what's behind all my rantings on this topic. It's not just short guys, poor guys, heavy topped women, fat women, single parents, interracial dating, etc. There a WAY bigger picture here to ponder. Not just "short guys".
Peace. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:58:49 AM | (2) woman targets tall guys, tall guy cheats because he knows he's highly coveted (like a hot chick), woman bemoans marriage and thinks all guys are cheaters
(3) woman "takes a chance" on "Napoleon complex" shorter guy, decides "she ain't settling" and cheats on him with tall guy "she always knew she needed", man bemoans marriage and thinks all women are cheaters
(4) divorce laws grossly in favor of women despite their rationalized adulterous dalliances
awwwwwww, you're taking the fun out of it!
let them remain ignorant, don't explain it in such simple terms to educate them, they ought to just keep making poor choices and so they can have miserable lives! | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 11:16:26 AM | I really enjoy the pseudo-science that people are trotting out to buttress their beliefs, like the idea that back in cave-man days, women really wanted a big guy because he could protect them best. First of all, if by 'cave man days' you mean pre-literate society, well, nothing is known about their mating rituals because no written record was left. So, no support for that statement.
But what is worse about the idea of females desiring larger males is that it commits what historians refer to as 'presentism', which means viewing people throughout history as having been just like us dressed up in funny clothes. In this context, presentism is the mistake made by thinking women, or for that matter men, typically made their own mating decisions, or that they had the luxury of making those decision based on physical attraction. Totally wrong.
Historically lots of people were enslaved - not much choice there. Others would have had their choices made for them by parents or others. The wealth or potential wealth of a mate would have been a critical factor in making a choice in times less affluent then ours. Also, in pre-automobile days, or even pre-train, it wasn't like you had a big pool of dates to choose from. Many, or most, people lived in small communities with limited potential for movement. What was available right around was all you were going to get. And they didn't take up a long time making their choices.
Another point - if women have wanted taller man through the eons, why isn't the distribution of height different? Only 15% of males are over 6', suggesting that height is not a biological advantage.
As for the idea that a 'leg man' could never be satisfied with a stocky-legged woman: plain wrong. People change their minds about what they want all the time. I happen to 'prefer' dark haired, dark complected women. The idea that I could not be happy with a blond because I'd always be wishing she was dark is absurd. All this biology, hardwired feelings idea - pure crap. Neurosis is a lot closer to the explanation than biology, | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 12:36:30 PM | Ok here is an extreme example of why a smaller dating pool is not nessisarily a good dating pool. Please bear with me and take this with a grain of salt. This is an extreme not the norm.
So you decided you are only going to Meet a man that is 6'+. Not only that he has to also meet all the other shallow requirements ( not preferences) a woman wants. On top of that he must meet all the non-superficial great qualities that we all look for .
So the guy has to be all this:
1)6'+
2) a swimmer, a runner or a body builder.\
3) has an MBA
4) hasa green MBA
5) Is in mensa or is in other ways a genius.
6) is a comedian\
7) is serious
8) is loyal
9) is honorable
10) is nice to everyone , not just you or hot women, but thhe elderly, children waiters, his parents, your parents.
11) onws a new care paid off, with insurance and still under warenty. When trhe warenty wears off he buys another one in full.
12) owns his own home and not an apartment.
13) Has hired help around the house.
14) is sensitive but not too much.
15) is dominant, but not too much>
Ok 15 is a good list for starters.
Yopu are dopwn to 15% of the male populous just on hight alone. In the 85% you dismissed 5% were wealthy. 15% were in the best shape of their lives. 25% have never cheated on a lover. 30 % care about the world. and 25% are gainfully employed and are generous to a fault and also care for world matters. but yopu are down to 15% of men and lets say 1% actually meet what you seek. In which you ewill sware to be single if you do not meet even 1 of the criteria.
Married men are off the list and so are gay men so now we see only a 5% of that 1 % left. If a man has met most of the requirements you are looking for he is ewither married or gay. So now all you happy women are now scrambling to meet this one guy.
Are ou willing to share him. NO! absolutly not. Are you ending your friendships or sisterhoods over this potential date? YES! You do not care. He is Mr. Perfect. The unicorn. You finally meet him. He is every thing you want an more. Just as you tell him you want him he dismisses you. You are not WHAT HE WANTS.
What does this tell you? Just because you want something does not means you are entitled to it. Are you your self all these things.
Are you 5'-5'4"? Are you nice? Are you smart? Are you wealthy? Are you Hot? What do you have to offer a man, is as important to happiness as what he has to offer you . Your own happiness comes from being you and all you can be with in your circumstances. Being happy single means you stand a better chance meeting someone than being unhappy about being single. If you are a bbw but want to find that perfect man, there are BBW sites, not just big men go there, but men that want you for whom you are. If you want a rich man regardless of looks, there is sugardaddie . com .
Oh and the perfect man, wont be on this site either. He is too busy chasing off women, or with his wife to go on a dating site. Unlike many of us, he has a larger life than we do .If you are on this site looking to date, then have fun dating, stop bemoaning that there arent any good men out there, or that all "certain" types of men, are no good. | |
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| Ladies: your take on short guys?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:32:13 PM | Executive Summary
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No one needs to be aware of causes of their actions or even aware of their own reactions and still be slave to them.
No one has ever argued that people have no right to choice.
Discussing behaviour isn’t the same thing as trying to directly change it within those who exhibit it.
Projection plays a very big role in height restriction.
The excuse of “biological instinct” to explain heightism is as always, just an excuse as there is no basis for it.
There are very few men who would have a “blond and busty” restriction (far fewer than women with “must be tall”).
Perceives? That would apply if restrictions weren’t written in black and white in ads. It’s not a “perception”, it’s a reality.
These threads provide insight into the personal growth necessary to escape from this immaturity.
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Attraction DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.. it isn't logical. It just is.
Unfortunately, this is just the usual plea to nature or randomness. Firstly, it isn’t nature or random. The behaviour is closely linked to lowered self-esteem and perceived need to compensate a self-image in the observer. Nature has little if anything to do with it. Secondly, as far as a behaviour being “logical”, this assumes that a person must “understand” and be sentient of their actions in order to behave a certain way. That is a fallacy. No one needs to be aware of causes of their actions or even aware of their own reactions and still be slave to them. This is how conditioning works. In extreme cases, the person is so protective of this “master” (deliberately or otherwise) that any suggestion that they are behaving irrationally is met with indignant resistance.
I think part of the problem is the concept that women (poeple really) HAVE to find a partner. I don't.. and so I can be picky.
Nope. There’s no imperative that anyone has to have a partner (or partners). That is irrelevant. As far as being picky, that’s a personal choice, and again, the usual straw man of “I have the right to choice”. No one has ever argued that people have no right to choice.
Now if I was complaining that I couldn't find a partner and had expressed that that was a serious goal.. then I could be criticized for overlooking some men because they didn't meet my ridiculously high standards.. and yes, my standards ARE ridiculously high (for me.. but this is relative) I don't, nor do I think I should have to, apologize for them. That's my right, and my choice to date whom "I" think is right for me.
Nope. If there is criticism it has always been for the irrationality of height thresholds (which is usually manifested as “must be over the average height of men). The relative highness or lowness of a standard is really not relevant to this discussion. Why certain standards exist is. If one’s standards include height restriction, it may have importance to argue that it is innate (which it isn’t) or that it is not irrational (which it is). At any rate no one is asking for an apology nor are they asking for irreverence. They are asking if anyone has a rational reason.
I think some women make a decision about what they find attractive by trial and error.. and KNOWING what does it for them, and what doesn't. There's no point in trying to change their minds.
“Trial and error”? If that were true, there would far more restrictions like, “no jerks please” instead of “must be over 6 ft”. “Knowing”? That’s just the usual circular argument of “I like what I like”. Discussing behaviour isn’t the same thing as trying to directly change it within those who exhibit it. I suppose if we were discussing astrophysics, we are necessarily trying to change the movement of celestial objects? Nope.
That would be like telling a guy who is a breast man to only date women who are flatchested.. or a leg man that even if a woman has legs like a tree stump it is "shallow" of him and he should give her a chance. What it will come down to is that he will NOT be as attracted to her as he would someone with a great set of gams... and that WILL affect the relationship.
It would be similar if there were as many ads by men that said “must have at least a C cup”, or “must have legs till Tuesday” in comparison to women’s ads that say “must be tall”. Since that isn’t even remotely the case, this only tries to introduce behaviour that doesn’t exist at anywhere near the same rate. Also did anyone else notice the “only” date instead of consider things outside the preference range of values? If men had a criterion based on projected self-image issues then by all means we should explore the reasons behind it. Of course we have to identify one actually like height restriction, and then start a thread on it.
There is competition between men that women never see... I know this.
Right… that is why men are ever so fearful of showing up to a party with the same suit, or, that their friends will judge them on their choice of shoes. We always can’t wait to go the restroom together so we can trash talk about that guy who showed up at the bar “out of his league”. We are always bragging about how much our Gucci man-purse cost. RoFl. This is about as mythical as it gets. Remember that projection plays a very big role in height restriction.
Somewhere back in time there came a biological imperative that larger males were the more attractive... you can see this in apes... a silverback gorilla (dominant male) is 3 times the size of a female... humans have evolved so that men are, on average, larger.. and I DO believe there is a subconscious genetic attraction for women to choose men who are bigger than them. Does it make modern logical sense? Is it politically correct? No. But biology is an instinctual thing..
Does that explanation make logical sense? Nope. Is it politically correct? Irrelevant. Is it “instinctual”? Nope.
Anyone also notice the subtle but critical shift from “taller” to “larger” here? If women truly were influence by such an instinct, then most ads would read like “must be larger or more muscular” instead of “must be tall or taller”. Furthermore, this size issue has been debunked as many times as it has come up. The subconscious attraction you are speaking of is for the “leader” of the pack. That’s translates to the man with the respect of other men; the man with all the toys. That usually doesn’t translate to sheer size. It’s a combination of guile, smarts, skill and physicality. It’s not height.
The excuse of “biological instinct” to explain heightism is as always, just an excuse as there is no basis for it.
I understand the feeling of people who feel "left out" because they don't fit the modern standard of "attractiveness". I'm not blond or busty (and have some native indian in my background, so I'm dark also.. I HAVE experienced racism even though I'm 90% European background).
That most defenders of heightism always parallel it with the suggestion that many or most men want “blond and busty” tends to explain how the influence of media is an underlying cause of both. The idealized women for most men are far more varied than Hollywood attempts to narrowly focus. Apparently, men in general are not as concerned with what Hollywood tells them to like. Even if it were so, there are very few men who would have a “blond and busty” restriction (far fewer than women with “must be tall”).
Being 90% European in a European dominated society hardly qualifies someone as knowing what a person of a clearly visible minority goes through. This isn’t saying that someone hasn’t experienced ethnic intolerance, but it is a whole different level. Personally, I have no idea what a 5foot2 guy has to go through, but if the amount of bullying and dismissal that goes on here is any indication, it’s a whole lot worse than being 90% of the dominant race.
I have narrow hips (no "hourglass" here) Some men find my figure far too boyish to be attractive.. this was emotionally painful to me as a young woman. Yes, it hurts not to be one of the "beautiful" people. But.. I have come to the conclusion that the only person I can change is myself, and I can't even do that in an authentic and healthy way if I don't love myself first, accept who I am, warts and all. There will always be obstacles and limits for people... each one of us has our challenges and unfortunately life is not fair.
So how many ads from men clearly state “must not have boyish figures”? A lot less than women’s ads that state “must be tall”. Not one of the beautiful people? The Collective personally knows quite a few people that are members and non-members of that club. Hurting is pretty much independent of membership. What an irony. The ability to change oneself seems obvious, yet so few defenders of heightism can move away from irrational behaviour. Instead, they will cling to all sorts of false logic to defend or justify irrational behaviour.
There are always obstacles for everyone. However, until there are just as many ads from men clearly stating, “must blond and busty” this comparison is meaningless and only serves to reprimand those who are marginalized by artificial stigma.
I like the saying, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. If one percieves an obstacle that is an opportunity for personal growth and self-actualization.
Perceives? That would apply if restrictions weren’t written in black and white in ads. It’s not a “perception”, it’s a reality.
As far opportunity for personal growth… Right on. So height restrictors should realize this. The problem is not with the shorter guys. The problem is within those who uphold irrational behaviour. These threads provide insight into the personal growth necessary to escape from this immaturity.
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