|
|
|
|
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 8:26:28 AM | RD the church i am attending does the same and I am gratefull, but they are starting to accept many other things also. This is a bt scarey for I really feel that it is too easy to be guided another way it is up to the attendies to push things gently into the direction that the Holy Spirit wishes for things to develop and this my friend is not a simple feet and Patience is what is needed.
A bit on what I am experiencing. That is also why a fellowship of others that dwell with in the Spirit is also so essential, wether they be in the church or not does not matter as long as the have come to accept Christ for what he has done and is to this day.
Yes the church opens arms to many cultures and many people and situations. thank God for this. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 7:02:59 PM | | I have found it troubling in the past to see alleged Christians marching against gays. Gays should be invited and welcomed at Church. Some act like gays are more sinful than others. Can you imagine Church people marching and speaking out against fat people? | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 7:08:13 PM |
I have found it troubling in the past to see alleged Christians marching against gays. Gays should be invited and welcomed at Church. Some act like gays are more sinful than others
I agree...(going biblically of course) if all sin is measured equally...than someone practicing homosexuality is no more in the wrong than the person in the seat next to you at church that didn't tell the cashier at the grocery store that she should have charged him $1.99 instead of the $1.89 that she did. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 7:13:27 PM | "Some act like gays are more sinful than others. Can you imagine Church people marching and speaking out against fat people?"
You impress me RDtoo. This is a very Christian attitude. True, gluttony is technically a sin right? No different than any other sin, and, we as mortals are in no position to judge the sins of others. We all sin, according to Christian doctrine. Of course I don't see either as a "sin," from my perspective, but I am respectful that you are truly Christian in your attitude, given how many hypocritical positions I see in these forums. | |
|
j-roc
|
Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 30 | |
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 8:28:10 PM | True, gluttony is technically a sin right? No different than any other sin, and, we as mortals are in no position to judge the sins of others. I must disagree.
Not all sins are equal according to scripture. Getting drunk means you are a fool or unwise. Practicing homosexuality is said to keep you from ever seeing the Kingdom of God and that this particular sin is detestible in the eyes of the Lord.
The bible also teaches that one who saves someone from following a false doctrine can take comfort in knowing that they saved a soul....you must judge someones beliefs in order to come to the conclusion that they are on a false path. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 8:50:21 PM | "Not all sins are equal according to scripture."
I've only read the bible once, so I'm no expert on this, but I thought that the demarcation between venial and mortal sins was more a Catholic construct. I recall Jesus making quite an issue in scripture that it is not for us to judge our brethren. Even so, isn't slander a mortal sin on a level with even idolatry according to Catholic doctrine? I see slander all the time in the forums. | |
|
j-roc
|
Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 32 | |
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 9:10:33 PM | John 8:21 (NKJV)
Then Jesus said to them again, "I am going away, and you will seek me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come." Here he is referring to the non believers. I think that not believing is one of the unforgivable sins.
Luke 12:10 (NKJV)
And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. This is a quote of what Jesus said....therefore not all sins are forgiven....or equal.
One of Gods laws, given to man, was to be fruitful and multiply, homosexuals cannot follow this. There are also numerous references to homosexuality throughout the OT and the NT....not one condones it. I can't find anything in Jesus' own words condemning it, but it is said to be quite a serious sin.
The Catholics do not view homosexuality as a choice and have recently accepted it....although I did hear something about the new Pope condemning the act. I am not very familiar with the way the Catholics interpret much of the scripture, but in the average bible (66 books) homosexuality is probably the worst sin next to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I do have an Anglicized version with the Apocrypha and Deuterononical scriptures, but have yet to read them....there may or may not be a mention of homosexuality in these scriptures. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 9:30:59 PM | | Jroc- that makes a pretty good case that not all sins are equivelent according to the new testament, but is there any scripture that indicates anything contrary to the idea that those judgements are entirely for God to make, and not for humans or human institutions, even the church, to make? Again, I recall Jesus making a fairly big issue of that, but I read it years ago. | |
|
j-roc
|
Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 34 | |
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 10:07:09 PM | James 5:19-20 (NKJV)
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. You say you read the bible....you were informed of the truth yet turned from it. I think this verse encourages me to judge your current views as false and try to convince you of your errors. Seems to encourage the judging of others, as long as your judging can be backed by scripture/truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13-16 (NKJV)
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. If you are a believer/follower you have the mind of Christ and are allowed to judge.
2 John 7-11 (NKJV)
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose the things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Jesus Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. Judging is not necessary , the bible tells its followers what judgements to make....we don’t have to make the judgement, just the observation. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 10:15:07 PM | "Judging is not necessary , the bible tells its followers what judgements to make....we don’t have to make the judgement, just the observation."
That sounds like semantics. It seems to me to pretty clearly imply that it is, not only their prerogative, but their duty to judge others. I think you made your point even better than you take credit. Why the equivocation?
Now can you produce any quotes that seem to imply the opposite? | |
|
j-roc
|
Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 36 | |
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 10:34:05 PM | Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use it, it will be measured back to you. This could go either way. I could argue it is wrong to judge as it will come back to haunt you; or it is okay to judge as I am making a righteous call and will be rewarded upon my judgement for being Christ like....although that is a bit of a stretch.
John 7:24 (NKJV)
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement. I guess I am wrong to judge people who look like hippies (Jesus) as pot heads....appearance is not to be judged.
John 12:48 (NKJV)
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him - the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. This does not tell us not to judge, rather that scripture is the judge.
There really isn’t much to support not judging others....that I can find anyways. Since I tend to judge I may just be more prone to finding verses that support my views. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 10:41:43 PM | Here's some just from Googling.
Matthew:
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Lk.6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
James 4:12
"Who art thou that judgest another?"
Maybe these are out of context, but it seems like kind of a mixed message to me. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/2/2005 11:35:51 PM | I think Paul is pretty specific here :
(1 Cor 5:12 KJV) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not you judge them that are within? But them that are without, God judgeth.
those that are "without" are those not in the body of Christ | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/3/2005 12:14:08 AM | As far as one sin being worse than another sin, the New Testament is pretty clear that all sin may be forgiven except the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This may be what is being talked about in Hebrews 6:4-6. I admit that sin can be greater or lesser in it's impact. If I slept with someones wife I not only sin against God and the woman but also her husband. If I just gorge myself on chocolate cake, the impact is against myself and God.
1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This seems to be true whether it is homosexuality or gluttony. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/3/2005 11:59:44 AM | You know I think gays will create their own turmoil and yes Jesus has died for their sins but not to carry on with it.
To be honest I appreciate anyone who would be open enough to say that they are, better thou is the statement they were for that is the key for helping those in fellowship to overcome and be transparent not only to God but you as yourself.
Fellowship my friend is needed so much now one can see the work of God spreading to those that wish His Love and Grace in these times.
I really wish that the Bible was read more for everyone to come to realize there is a exponential Love out there to help you and become much better than anyone ever realized.
Thank God for the blood of the Lamb.
 | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/3/2005 12:37:38 PM | | Ive attended many different kinds of churches , most of which greet you with open arms and treat you with respect for a time then try to change you to there ways .I have yet to find a church that is totally open to what the bible has to say .Most seem to pick out what they want to here and deni the rest and when you question it or challange it look out . Churches are to be with other believers but trust only in your own heart and not what someone else says or teaches ,read the bible and ask God to open your heart and eyes to his word that you will know the truth in your own heart do not be decieved by others . There is only one way , that is Gods way thru his Son Jesus Christ . So don't worry what the churches say or do . Read his word and learn for yourself and trust your own heart God will not lead you astray . | |
|
| |
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/6/2005 3:15:48 PM | Hi folks ,new here. I work with 'wilderness' christians. These are folks who walk with God nd Jesus outside the church walls. Some have left for many reasons,legalisms, doctrines of man,another gospel and another Christ, church rules that contradict the scriptures,apostacy etc and some are literally 'called out' by God to feed such. In many cases the main result is ....where is the biblical love among the breathren! It is more concensus,conformity and rank of societial status.
I do feel the true church is a body/group of believers in Jesus the Messiah. The Temple of God is spirit and 'we worship God in Spirit and in Truth'. The group is to be bound in the love that comes from God aka 'agape' love. Is divine 'agape' love the seal of a believer in Jesus the Messiah? I believe this to be so.
john 4...
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
2 cor 3:4
The Spirit, Not the Letter
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
For that matter what is a true christian? But one who keep the commandments and has the testamony of Jesus,who picks up their cross and follows after Jesus, their Messiah, Kinsmen Redeemer and Rabbi.
Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments
john 13
31 So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him. 32 If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately. 33 Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
john 14
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
john 15
The True Vine
1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away, and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
Love and Joy Perfected
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
Ephesians 5
Walk in Love
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Walk in Light
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:
“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
1 peter 1:22
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because
“ All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[f] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the LORD endures forever.”[g]
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 john 3:14
The Imperative of Love
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
The Outworking of Love
16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Who are the brethren? Those who are In Christ Jesus,as they are family. Yet Jesus instructed us to love our enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who despitefully use you. luke 6:27-49 ( it's all good reading btw!) romans 12:9-21. so the law of divine love is towards all mankind! I calll it the Golden Rule!
And of course, no one of this can be done unless born of Spirit, from above. It is a spiritual birth one needs. The born of water(flesh) and born of Spirit(from Heaven). For the seed that comes from Heaven aka the Spirit of God transforms the carnal man into a new creation. But like the seed unless it dies it can not bring forth life. And like a plant it is like 'the parable of the seeds', there is danger of many things until the plant comes to full maturity and bloom. Thru this new creation, thru the seed being planted from above, can one receive a new Spirit and a new heart. ezek 36:26,ezek 18:31,ezek 11:19 And people wonder why Jesus came in the flesh and die on the cross and resurrected? I call it 'the Gift from God'!
Well I din't mean to be longwinded, especially on my first posting, but this is one big issue that was brought across and there are no simple answers for it. If scriptures were heeded for the Golden Rule that is it, we would not have this problem. But just like ancient Israel with the priests in the Temple, so to now history again repeats itself. ezek 8
Ezekiel 8
Abominations in the Temple
1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I sat in my house with the elders of Judah sitting before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell upon me there. 2 Then I looked, and there was a likeness, like the appearance of fire—from the appearance of His waist and downward, fire; and from His waist and upward, like the appearance of brightness, like the color of amber. 3 He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy. 4 And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the vision that I saw in the plain.
5 Then He said to me, “Son of man, lift your eyes now toward the north.” So I lifted my eyes toward the north, and there, north of the altar gate, was this image of jealousy in the entrance.
6 Furthermore He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel commits here, to make Me go far away from My sanctuary? Now turn again, you will see greater abominations.” 7 So He brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, there was a hole in the wall. 8 Then He said to me, “Son of man, dig into the wall”; and when I dug into the wall, there was a door.
9 And He said to me, “Go in, and see the wicked abominations which they are doing there.” 10 So I went in and saw, and there—every sort of creeping thing, abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed all around on the walls. 11 And there stood before them seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, and in their midst stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan. Each man had a censer in his hand, and a thick cloud of incense went up. 12 Then He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the room of his idols? For they say, ‘The LORD does not see us, the LORD has forsaken the land.’”
13 And He said to me, “Turn again, and you will see greater abominations that they are doing.” 14 So He brought me to the door of the north gate of the LORD’s house; and to my dismay, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then He said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Turn again, you will see greater abominations than these.” 16 So He brought me into the inner court of the LORD’s house; and there, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men with their backs toward the temple of the LORD and their faces toward the east, and they were worshiping the sun toward the east.
17 And He said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it a trivial thing to the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here? For they have filled the land with violence; then they have returned to provoke Me to anger. Indeed they put the branch to their nose. 18 Therefore I also will act in fury. My eye will not spare nor will I have pity; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.”
Shalom. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/6/2005 6:18:42 PM | | Jesus tells us to, above all else, love the Lord our God and love our neighbour. Not just our straight, sober, chaste, Christian neighbour. As far as sin and churches being accepting of 'different' people, Jesus also pointed out that healthy people don't need to go to the doctor, just as He came to earth for the people who needed Him ie: the 'unclean' the tax collectors, prostitutes, the sexually immoral, the poor in spirit. Now, when a someone 'different' walks into a church, I believe Jesus does a great big happy-dance, and the people in that church should be doing the same! | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/26/2005 6:20:52 AM | | Church is not the end all and be all the following Christ. A building is sometime useless. And your congregation can only take some of the blame. If you are part of the body of the church then you need to help change the veiws of the congregation. So some of the stuff that is writen on this thread is bable to me. I pray that people get down to the real problems like single mom's and orphens. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/26/2005 7:09:31 AM | The question I am asking? How would the Church you attend act towards an outsider who did not "fit" the mold of the people in the congregation? the church I attend welcomes anyone in need of salvation. nomatter what kind of life was lead before. Thats what i like about it the most . I could be me! Here is a brief history of the church although i dont attend this peticular church. There are many calvary chapels around. Check out this link. calvary chapel was part of the Jesus movment
http://calvarychapelcostamesa.org/high/index.php?/high/multimedia/ebooks/answersfortoday.htm
Go to the Complete history on "the about Us" | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/26/2005 7:14:24 AM | | Ok honestly. Is the chruch more important or is it fellowship you have with other Chritians. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 12/26/2005 1:56:45 PM |
fellowship you have with other Chritians, Is the chruch more important .
the former.. | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 1/16/2006 8:34:56 AM | Praise God for individuality!! I attend Victory Life in Durant,OK, we love to see new faces and as someone else mentioned above, some people in the congregation are more friendly and open than others. Our pastor wants to welcome all who come. We are to always love our brothers and sisters no matter what. However, God instructed us that he hates sin, it is painful for him to be near it. We are also to hate sin while helping our fellows see God's love and understanding of them. God says to mark those who will not turn from sin and stay away from fellowship with them. So by all means think, speak your mind, but listen to the wisdom of others and above all serve the Lord your God to the best of your abilities. God Bless you and yours. Amen  | |
|
| A question for Christians
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:14:00 AM | | God loves all his children, that is why Jesus came to earth to die for all our sins. He came to save all....not one of us is worthy, we have all fallen short. If we do not show the love of God to the homosexual community, how then will the spirit of God work in there lives. All sins are view by God as the same...and when we think we are better because we do not do that, we are only decieving ourselves. We must show unending love to all that are around us so that Gods love may light up this dark world that we live in. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
