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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 28 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/6/2005 9:59:03 PM | | james.......I think part of the problem is some people thinking that Canada is split into 2 groups-- anglos, and francophones.....thats leaving out a lot of people. Just because someone speaks english; doesn't mean they are anglos!!! I didn't any opinion about it until I went into grade 8; and had to take french; and was told that the french didn't have to learn english.When I met skaters from quebec, i found out that they learned english by watching tv. | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/7/2005 9:48:57 AM | | Chinua, you have been misinformed my dear. We have to learn English on the Quebec side. It is not optional either. I have had English classes from grade 4 or 5 to grade 12. Where it is optional is once you enter college. Now they are thinking of having English class starting in grade 1 or 2 I believe. I have been lucky that my dad's second wife was English. Helped me progress much faster than most of my peers as I got to speak English when I visited my dad on top of learning it at school. Now many students just couldn't care less about English and that's actually too bad for them as English is in fact one of the or the universal language. But it is nice to see my fellow English Canadians make an effort to speak French when they cross the border lol | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 30 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/7/2005 10:40:19 AM | | James.......when I was in elementary school(remember i'm 4 years older than you) the area I lived in didn't start french until grade 8. I lived in a different area by then(grade 8) where everybody had already started in grade 4. The quebec skaters i knew lived in Laval-- maybe it's different than Hull? Only 2 out of 10 skaters spoke english-- one fluently.-- that was back in 1990. | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 6:40:12 AM | nope, nothing different between Laval and Hull as all schools have to abide by the rules set by the Department of Education of Quebec. I am not surprise that only two out of 10 skaters spoke English. We we're thought starting in elementary school but it doesn't mean that everybody can assimilate or care to assimilate a new language as well as others. In my class of 30 students in grade 12, we were probably 6 or 7 who could consider themselves to be fluent in that language. The others had marks in the 50-60% range and many were even under 40%. Now 2 out of 10 speaking English is usually still more thant what you would get out of ten English Canadians speaking French. My take is that maybe .5 out of 10 English Canadians can consider themselves to be fluent in French. It is quite understandable though as you can get serve pretty much anywhere in the world in English, even in many places in Quebec will you be served in English. So it is understandable that people born in English Canada don't really see the necessity to speak French. Honnestly, I don't even see the necessity of speaking French myself and I'm French and speak everyday at work and with my familly. I speak it because I was born and raise as a French Canadian. I still love speaking French and speak everytime I can but I can understand why some people don't see it as a necessity to even bother making an effort to learn, even if it's taught in school. I think a lot of the misunderstanding between French and English Canada comes from that. In theory we are supposed to be a billingual country, but in practice only Ottawa and a few parts of Quebec are billingual and even then, you will get served in French in Ottawa only if you are served by an actual French Canadian. Then English Canadians couldn't care less if they speak French or not, they expect us to speak English. In Quebec, they couldn't care less if they speak English or not, they expect you to speak French, specially when you go as far as Quebec city or even further east. That's where all the Anti-French and Anti-English sentiment is born cause no one could be half-@ssed learning the second language. Problem is, you guys can get around using English only but we can't get around as easily just speaking French.
I've been friends pretty much all my life with English Canadians, on a level or another and have never had any problems. Sure I have had the occasional racist comment, actually maybe twice in my life. Yes we do have a different culture, a different way of seeing things, even religion is different (unless I meet an Atheist like me), but why would that keep us from being friends or at least getting along with one another. The reason is simple. The God Damn Partie Quebecois and the Bloc Quebecois who keep stirring sh1t all the time for no reason. Nothing's ever good enough coming from Ottawa (federal). It seems that some politicians have taken their hatred towards the confederation too far by wanting a country for themselves to govern. They'll say, oh, we have nothing against English Canada, it's Ottawa (Federal) we don't like.. it's the confederation.... well why not work in fixing that confederation instead of trying the break the country appart? We have, IMO, the best country in the world to live in and I sincerily hope that the God Damn Partie Québécois will not come and break it appart. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 32 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 10:31:13 AM | | james..........french immersion schools are getting popular here......so i think things are changing; at least here. i think it doesn't help that for many years we've been hearing about the sign laws back there....btw the way; my best friend is an acadian from nova scotia.....they're not happy about what's going on either.... | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 11:11:00 AM | and who can blame them!!! (in Nova Scotia).
As for the sign law, I can understand why they adopted such a law but yet, I find it a bit stupid and quite honnestly the department in charge of controlling that is almost like a freaking Ghestappo. It is quite ridiculous actually. I mean, yes I think it is somewhat legitimate to force store owners and companies to advertised in French and if needed in English, but where I don't agree is with the fact that the French advertising has to be bigger than the English advertising. It is ridiculous. We have to find ways to protect French from disappearing altogether from Canada but that is not a way to do it in my opinion. It will not change anything whatsoever. Forcing immigrants to learn French if they want to live in Quebec is a good thing to preserve French, forcing companies to advertise in French only or as the primary sign is not. Some things are over done in my opinion and sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a French Canadian because of the decisions that are or were made by the Partis Québécois in the past....
And one thing about separation. I believe that if we ever separate, something I do not wish for, we will not be better of on our own and I predict that within 5 years, or less, we will cry to come back to Canada, or worst, we will be annexed and become the 53rd State of the United States of America (or whatever number they're at now lol), which to say the least would be much worst then staying with Canada. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 34 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 11:23:32 AM | yes; being annexed would definately be worse.........the culture would go out the window.....i think most people don't see anything wrong with preserving a culture; i wish i could have learned gaelic.......and ukrainian.......but; i think some people think the opposite; that we're canadian; and thats that.
Also.....some people......speak english;plus whatever their culture is; my grandfather spoke english and ukrainian, he didn't speak english until he went to school.....and he was born in dauphin, manitoba. | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 11:44:04 AM | I think Quebecs desire for an independent International team is a hoax perpetuated by separatists, who are constantly lookin for an opportunity to rear their ugly heads. I havent heard one serious, valid arguement that supports an independant international Quebec team. Quebec players have alsways been well represented in the ethnical makeup of all our Canadian International Teams, so they dont really need a seperate team to illustrate the talent that abounds there, especially when it comes to netminding. I think that if Quebec did separate (yay) they would sink in no time. But thats another argument.. for another forum.
The bottom line is this: If Quebec had its own independence, individuality, and autonomy established PRIOR to the creation of hockeys PRESENT international governing bodies (the IOC and the IIHF -like Ireland and Scotland did PRIOR to FIFA, for example).. then maybe they would have a leg to shand on. But.. they do not.. and, as such.. this hiccup will dissipate like most separatist-based ideas... and even if the unlikely was granted, why talk about... complete separation? Where does the politics end.. and the hockey begin?? | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 12:28:53 PM | Saiyan, I think that Duceppe said he would like Team Quebec in the event of independance.. not sure though. I agree that this thread has turned more political than it has turned to sport, but it is an important discussion nonetheless, probably worth opening a thread in the politics forum but since it is so advanced here, we might as well continue the debate... if there is anything to add to it. I also want to take the time to thank all of you who have responded for keeping this respectful and not resorting to hatred. Being the minority on this thread (being French) I could have been in for quite a beating, so to speak lol but you have all kept it nice and respectful and I appreciate that.
thank you | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 12:35:35 PM | I think... sometimes you Quebecers.. are forgotten, in terms of your overall contributions, never mind the fact.. that we are all the same, regardless of which province we call home. Cool peeps.. are everywhere. jamesxxx71 just proved that... who cares if your francophone or whatever... one day maybe no one will be considered a "minority"...
now should I end this by quoting Rodney Dangerfield...
or Depeche Mode???
take care! | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 38 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/8/2005 12:53:07 PM | James; there was no reason not to be nice to you.......unlike what a lot of politicians say, not every english speaking canadian dislikes every french speaking canadian.
I think the politicians bring up stuff like this to try and get us to fight; so they can say 'see? we have to leave, everybody hates us'.....it's up to us to make sure that doesn't happen! | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 6:51:53 AM | Cheers Chinua and to Saiyan too. It's people like us that will keep Canada together. And I agree that we're all the same regardless of the province we come from... actually regardless of the country we come from. We're all part of one species... human.
You all have a great day!!! | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 40 | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 10:22:07 AM | james:
I would love to believe " It's people like us that will keep Canada together". But reality speaks louder than the ideal world or situation. My dream is to see a unified country, but I'm also aware there is a vast population in Quebec that want a change. The closest they were to that change was the last referendum. To say they wont pursue their goals, is to not take them seriously.
As for " We're all part of one speicies.. human". Just what do you mean by this ? I ask nicely .. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 44 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 11:44:03 AM | | Tic........I don't live in Quebec; so it wasn't me. The majority of people in Quebec didn't vote. Nobody asks the rest of canada what they think.........don't tell me that the politicians listen to the regular people. Do you also think that they live up to their promises? I also think that a lot of separatists haven't been outside of Quebec....what do you think James? | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 12:29:42 PM | Quite possible that most of them have not been outside of Quebec. The big problem is that the Partis and Bloc Quebecois are trying to rally quebecers to their cause by talking about culture, language diffenrece etc to make them vote yes. Then they say lies like, we'll be much better of on our own. We will have the money for the health care system, we will respect the Kyoto protocol etc etc... which is bullsh1t if you ask me. We are already one of or the most taxed province of Canada and we are still having problems with health care, like most of canada actually. The problem is not Ottawa or the fact that we are part of a confederation, the problem is that people are getting sick more because A) they are getting older B) The population of Quebec and Canada has grown by a few millions in the last decade C) More people are getting sick because of pollution and sh1t D) People are far from being as healthy as they were 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Now kids and adults alike spend way more time watching tv, eating chips and fastfood then we ever did when I was a kid. E) there are more poor people than ever before.... and the list goes on
the population of Quebec and all of Canada for that matter have far better things to worry about than to wonder if the Federal Government is relevant or not. IMO, the Federal Government seems to be working hard at trying to satisfy the provinces and more particularely Quebec in order to have things run smooth again. Maybe the fact that it's a minority Government helps, but nonetheless, some efforts are being made to redistribute the riches the Federal Government collects in surplus every year. But the Bloc and Partis Québécois prefer to talk about the sponsorship scandal instead of applauding some of the efforts done by Martin and his team... the Bloc and Partis Quebecois are never happy and they always find something to say against anything good that comes from the federal. They even take from one hand and take away from the other. Before the Liberals were elected in Quebec, the Federal decided to create a new allocation for famillies with kids. As soon as this was announced the Partis Québécois cut it's allocation to famillies by the exact same amount per capita that the Federal was transferring to the Provinces, leaving the famillies with the exact same amount of money as before that program was created by the Federal... then people are voting for such a party.... | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 3:02:38 PM | Chinua:
"I also think that a lot of separatists haven't been outside of Quebec...." It's no different than the thousands who've never left the boundaries of thier own city in the rest of Canada.
I have relatives in Quebec, and travel there for business. I have had the pleasure of meeting some very nice people there. Unlike some of the nasty comments I've heard from others who've visited the province. Yes, it would be a shame to see them seperate, but to hold them back would be wrong. Maybe it's time to say our goodbyes, and then develope a working relationship when and if it does happen. If as has been mentioned here, they fall on their face, then they at least tried. But i highly doubt they will.
You have hit on the chord that vibrates Chinua. What matters to politicians is the votes they can gather in the East. Our thoughts and wishes are swept aside. And this has been the case for years now with the current administration. Another reason why many in Quebec are upset.
I shake my head when Martin suddenly comes out with all of the promises he does. Where was the action when he was in power? Promises , I'm tired of hearing of them. Action speaks volumes. Add to that the theft and the absence of accountability. | |
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| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 3:10:22 PM | James:
" The problem is not Ottawa " It is and will be till the current administration is sent packing for good. I'm not against Liberals, PC's, or whomever. Its the people who've taken money out of our pocket and then lied they havent.
Your points are consistant with the rest of our country. But those points are for another thread .
"IMO, the Federal Government seems to be working hard at trying to satisfy the provinces and more particularely Quebec in order to have things run smooth again"
And who's money have they used to do this? And what efforts has Martin made James. The scandal is very important as it has shown us just how much corruption there is in the system. If you want to give up your money to those who misrepresent and misappropriate funds, then be my guest. I wont.
To me , the bloc isnt my first choice, but a better choice than the Liberals who've lost my trust and the trust of others too. Then there will always be those who just turn a blind eye and forget and forgive. If you turn the blind eye, dont complain about your taxes going up. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 48 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 5:33:21 PM | In a past thread, I mentioned that my best friend is an acadian from nova scotia.....her family moved from france in the 1600's( they have proof)....they don't want to separate.....and how much do the maritimers get ignored? The scots/irish haven't asked to separate either.......then there's the ukrainians and russians in the prairie provinces. Maybe someone should be promoting all the other cultures we have in canada. We are more than french and english. | |
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Alarm
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Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 49 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/9/2005 10:06:57 PM | | We all should stand up and be proud that we are CANADIANS first. If we did that then the province we are from and nationality we are wouldn't matter to anyone because we are all CANADIANS first and foremost......... | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 50 | |
| What next? The Bloc want their own international hockey team
Posted: 12/10/2005 4:55:20 PM | | alarm...thats the problem; some people don't think of it that way.....does anybody remember that biathlete that won a medal at the olympics years back(maybe '88)? a sportscaster asked her if she thought of herself as competing for canada, or as competing for Quebec.....talk about putting her on the spot-- that was downright mean.I don't think she answered; because either way- someone would have been mad at her. That question wouldn't have ben asked if she had been from another province, or territory. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, but .........without pushing it too much. | |
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