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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 26 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:14:44 PM | John :14
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I have said this all along, we dont keep the 10 cammandments to be saved, we do it when we are saved. As Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments, you cant love him if you are not "saved".
The 4th commandment was changed a good 300 plus years after the death of Jesus, why diddnt Paul or any of the NT writers say something like the old sabbath or we dont need it.
They keep it to the day they died.
It was Man that changed it.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt"5,19 even says if you break them and teach men to do so the beings in heaven will call you the least or the lowest. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:18:50 PM | ""I agree with that, funn1, but Jesus still stirred up controversy amongst the legalists for picking food and healing on the sabbath.''
Keep in mind flyguy, there was nothing wrong with what God had ask man to do, but the Jews made a mess of Gods laws. It was the ppl that were wrong not the law. They added stuff to it and twisted what God wanted. | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:26:25 PM | (Acts 20:7 KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
(1 Cor 16:1 KJV) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(1 Cor 16:2 KJV) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Seems to me they met on the sunday..
And as for" keeping my commandments" he was not speaking of the Decalogue
(John 15:10 KJV) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
(John 15:11 KJV) These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
(John 15:12 KJV) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:47:08 PM | The Jewish people do not believe the promises of the Old Testament have been fulfilled. They do not believe Jesus Christ is the awaited saviour. They are still waiting and thus will continue to worship on the Sabbath.
Kara was born Jewish, but believes that Yahshua was the Messiah, this makes her a messianic jew, we keep 7th day Sabbath because Yahshua (Jesus) kept 7th day Sabbath.
Only the Orthodox Jewish people believe that Yahshua is not the Messiah.
Steve & Kara | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:50:05 PM | Well I would have to say, that anyone who feels it necessary to observe the Sabbath, will request the schedulers that this day is not one that they can work. There are plenty of people in this world who don't believe the same, in fact some don't even believe in anything. These people are willing to work all days of the week.
It is our constitutional right to worship on our chosen day of Sabbath.
Steve & Kara | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:53:00 PM | Also we know of observant 7th day Adventists, and Jewish people who are required to work on the Sabbath do so for no pay, or they donate that day's pay to the poor.
Steve & Kara | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:59:54 PM | | 1 Timothy 1:7 They want to be teachers of the law, yet they do not understand either what they are talking about or the things about which they speak so confidently. Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately, that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people, for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 33 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 2:58:03 PM | Acts 20:7 KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
The bible says they broke bread daily. The story in Acts 20 vs 7 is there because Paul talked so long a young man fell asleep and feel out the window and Paul resurrected him. This vs sayas nothing about a new sabbath day!
1COR:16-1,4. Paul is asking for a special collection he will pick up on the 1st day of the week in addition to the norman tithe, he ask to have it ready so he can go quickly so there is no gathering that needs to be done when he comes. Again nothing about a new Sabbath !
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments^^^ how can you say he is not?
Jesus said Love God with all your hart ,mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself.
The first 4 are how to love God and the last 6 is how to treat our neighbor. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 35 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 3:39:10 PM | Why does the 4th commandment make so many christians mad?
Any other one of the 10 and its all good but this one, the one that God asks for time from us ppl get bent.
Is it the time thing, ppl just dont want to give a day away?
Is it because they go to church on sunday, and dont want to think they could be wrong? | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 3:42:15 PM | This is what Paul had to say about Gentiles keeping the Law
ACTS 15:5 But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "They must be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses."
15:21 After all, Moses has had people to proclaim him in every city for generations, and on every Sabbath he is read aloud in the synagogues."
15:22 Then the apostles, the elders, and the whole church decided to choose some of their men to send with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch. These were Judas, who was called Barsabbas, and Silas, who were leaders among the brothers.
15:23 They wrote this letter for them to deliver: "From the apostles and the elders, your brothers, to their gentile brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia. Greetings.
15:24 We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled your minds. ( regarding keeping the law)
15:27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas to tell you the same things by word of mouth.
15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to place on you any burden but these essential requirements:
15:29 to keep away from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from anything strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you avoid these things, you will prosper. Goodbye."
15:30 So the men were sent on their way and arrived in Antioch. They gathered the congregation together and delivered the letter.
15:31 When the people read it, they were pleased with the encouragement it brought them.
Are you alive or dead to the Law funn1....and when did you get circumsised?
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 3:42:49 PM | | Oh, I've been to a couple of churches that had service on Saturday night as well as Sunday morning. Seems like they didn't give a flip... or maybe they were hedging their bets? | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 38 | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:00:02 PM | Most churches don't give a flip, but there are a few out there that want to bring us back under the law, by making the sabbath a command.. As DavieMickie said the sabbath is one of the shadows of things to come. We enter into the sabbath in Christ, ie ceasing from the works of the law, because we are dead to the law in Christ. I've never seen a corpse get out of a coffin in a graveyard to go and work. Some people just don't get the freedom that being in Christ brings. He came to set the captives free, free from sin and the law. The law only brings wrath.. If certain Christians want to be back under the law, thats fine, The cross is of no effect to them. By grace we are saved by faith and not works of the law..
If your going to keep the bible sabbath it is from sundown Fri-sundown Sat.
Funn1 you'd better be sychronising your week to that of MT.Sinai, other wise you are keeping the sabbath on the wrong day.. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 40 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:04:22 PM | So can I just go kill some person I see on the street and say sorry God?
Can I go sleep with a married woman and just say sorry God I was week, then do it again and say sorry again?
Come on, get real.
all or nothing, 10 or 0. | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:10:56 PM | Did David keep the ten, no he was a murderer and commited adultery, is he saved??
What happens if you steal?? According to the Law you is dead.. So where are you going to go when you fail at keeping the commandments??
10 for you, O for me, | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 42 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:22:27 PM | ""Funn1 you'd better be sychronising your week to that of MT.Sinai, other wise you are keeping the sabbath on the wrong day..""
Its clear you dont know much on this. Just look at the Jewish nation, they are all over the world and from the begaining they have keep the same day. the U.S. observatory was asked has their been anything that could of changed the cycle of days. The anwser was no, nothing can change the weekly cycle of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.
There was and is a command to keep the sabbath of God in the bible.
This is no command in the bible for a new sabbath day. !!
Do I think there are God filled ppl who go to or have gone to church on sunday, YES. They lived up to all the light they had.
Do I think keeping any of the 10 will send me to heaven? NO!!!!!!!
There are two laws talked about in the bible the ten commandments of God and the laws of Moses. The bible is clear the laws of Moses where nailed to the cross and is clear that the 10 commandments will stand tell heaven and earth pass .
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Read this Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: thi is talking about things that will happen well after Jesus death.
Luke 23:56
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Does anyone need more? Its in there if you want it. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 43 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:30:09 PM | Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:44
And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Jews and GREEKS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Ask your Pastors if you belive me. | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:34:02 PM | I've said all I have to say on this Funn1...You walk the way you want and I'll walk my way..But be carefull what you espouse, as this might well apply to you
(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Jews and GREEKS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Hosea 4:6
where else would he find the Jews of that day??? | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 45 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 4:40:51 PM | The Greeks ask if they could come and hear him the next sabbath, why did they not just say can we come on the 1st day of the week, why did they ask to come back next Sabbath?
I know some ppl outside of religion who think its funny most christians go to church on sunday, they know it was a pagan day of the sun not the sabbath from the bible, and use it to show ppl dont know what the bible says. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 46 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 5:02:44 PM | Again, in Isaiah chapter 58, we are told that Israel forsook the ordinances of God. Verse 13 tells them how to correct their ways and honor God, "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."
Does this not sound awsome?
Sabbath in the new earth
In chapter 66 we find that the Sabbath will be recognized in the future "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from on sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord."
One of the most important considerations relates to Constantine the Great and the fact that he, as Roman Emperor, commanded the civil observance of Sunday. In the year 321 he issued a law prohibiting manual labor on Sunday.
The Sunday law of Constantine had nothing to do with Christianity.
Quoting the book "The History of the Church" we find that "He enjoined the observance, or rather forbade the public desecration of Sunday, not under the name of Sabbatum, but under its old astrological and heathen title, Dies Solis. familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to the worshippers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians. There is no reference whatsoever in his law either to the fourth commandment or to the resurrection of Christ.
Constantine worshipped all the gods - especially Apollo the god of the sun. He held the title Pontifex Maximus which was the title of the high priest of paganism. These and other considerations make it clear that Constantine's form of Christianity was actually a modified version of mystery religion. - The Mystery of Iniquity that had been at work since the time of Babel.
This same system, characterized by the shrouding of truth in secrecy and the manipulation of the truth in order to achieve it’s ends, set out, in the third century, to combine paganism with Christianity. These goals were partially accomplished through the proclamation on March 7th 321 A.D. of Constantine the Great, stating:" All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon The Venerable Day of the Sun." | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 5:19:38 PM |
I know some ppl outside of religion who think its funny most christians go to church on sunday, they know it was a pagan day of the sun not the sabbath from the bible, and use it to show ppl dont know what the bible says.
Are you suggesting that perhaps there is a difference of following between the "solar calendar" and the "lunar calendar"? | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 48 | |
| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 5:36:38 PM | ""and when did you get circumsised?""
ROM2
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2 Corinthians 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 5:38:03 PM | lev 23...Feasts of the Lord and biblical Sabbath.
Jesus fulfilled the Law,not done away with it. Consider the Torah of God on Mt Sinai to be a wedding agreement, it is a covanent contract God made to Israel in the wilderness. Did you know Moses broken the first set and went back up the mount for a second set. First was the physical Law of God, then the Spirit of Law of God aka divine/agape Law.
matt 5...
Christ Fulfills the Law
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
matt 19...
Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
matt 22...
The Scribes: Which Is the First Commandment of All?
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Words of Jesus ..and you will love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body ,and your neighbour as oneself. (Hm... the Shema!) And Jesus taught the Spirit of the Law! zech 7:12,romans 7:6,romans 8:1,gal 3:2...
And what of the offspring of the woman (Israel) revelations 12....
The Woman Persecuted
13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
***17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, ***who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.***
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john 15
The Spirit of the Law is agape/divine love that come from Yahweh,and it fulfills the law. To whom was Paul addressing about food and days? The Gentiles or Jews? Define 'first day of the week' as spoken of in Acts? Do we not go from Sabbath to Sabbath?
Acts 20:7 And on (1722) the first of the (3391) sabbaths (4521),the disciples assembling to break bread...
1 Cor 16:2 greek/interlinear... every (2596) one (3391) of the week (4521) each of you...
strong's numbers
3391-mia mee'-ah irregular feminine of 1520; one or first:--a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.
4521-sabbaton sab'-bat-on of Hebrew origin (7676); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:--sabbath (day), week.
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7676 shabbath shab-bawth' intensive from 7673; intermission, i.e (specifically) the Sabbath:--(+ every) sabbath.
7673 shabath shaw-bath' a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):--(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
The Sabbath is a day of rest an given for mankind's benefit. But also symbolic of the 1000 year rest of the Messianic Age by the Messiah Yehoshuah/ Jesus.
romans it speaks about the law! 1-11
The highlites...
The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
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Romans 2
God’s Righteous Judgment
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
The Jews Guilty as the Gentiles
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.
Circumcision of No Avail
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
Romans 3
God’s Judgment Defended
1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“ That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written:
“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 7
Freed from the Law
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Sin’s Advantage in the Law
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Law Cannot Save from Sin
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
*Again I say what is the Spirit of the Law? What did Jesus teach peoples?
romans 14...
Romans 14
The Law of Liberty
1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:
“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
***The Law of Love
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith?] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
The judaic law has 613 laws! Jesus,being a jew keep the Feasts of the Lord and the biblical sabbath. He even kept the Feast of Dedication which is Chanakah. so what food and day was spoken of in Romans if not judaic law!
colossians 2:11
Colossians 2
Not Philosophy but Christ
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
( did you just get that!-hidden...aka rhema, living word,revelation from Heaven!,gnosis... God speaks THRU His word aka scriptures via the wind of the Spirit of God!HM... breath..wind....the good book is your guide, but revelation comes from God alone,in and thru the Messiah Jesus -by the Spirit of God.)
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Not Legalism but Christ
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
....
Traditions and doctrines of man, legalism,dogmas, creeds,theologies of man, another gospel and another Christ, doctrines of devils etc.-aka apostacy.Called the Great Falling Away in thessalonians. The Spirit of God knows all truth, in depth, width, breath, so that no one need to teach you! The Spirit of God is your Teacher, that is what Jesus left us with! His Spirit aka the Spirit of God! God's Temple is Spirit and we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth! Read your bibles, ask God to reveal His Truth to you.
Now Jesus is the High Priest in judaic circles ok, Jesus interceeds when we fall into sins. Jesus imparts favour/grace in the Heavenly Temple of God. The Spirit of God tranforms the earthen vessel! God's timing ,His way! Our lives are hidden in Christ Jesus,only God knows the heart of mankind. What were the religious leaders of Jesus day, scribes and Phariscees....all nicy nice on the outside and full of wickedness on the inside! They acted holier than thou,self glorifying themselves...pompous,arrogant, shutting out Heaven to the seekers of God. Jesus knew it! The scribes and Phariscees were legalists,they had a religious spirit and um..spirits are very real btw! Strain and flea/gnat and swallow a camel ok! Jesus didn't mince words ok, he's dynamic,colourful personalitywise and spoke bluntly!
So anyways, Jesus never did away with the law, the commandments of God Jesus fulfilled them, but he also condemned legalism, and works, as they are of the flesh. Can't get into heaven via works aka brownie points ok, and faith alone is not enough either cos even the demons believe who Jesus is and they are still going to Sheol.Faith alone does not cut it either. There is a call to surrender to God in all things,of Self. I will prove my faith by my works, Paul said it. There is 'fruit' cos the Spirit of God works thru the earthen vessel that submits to God!
And unless a seed dies, it can not bring forth life! An well thru the young tender plant sprout fro mthe ground, the soil determines if it will survive, there are the elements of wind, storms and weeds,there are birds who will also steal the precious seed. Seed is just not the Word here but the 'breath' of the new birth from above. Many plants die, but of those that fall on good ground ,they grow to maturity, flower and bare fruit on many yields. Hm... many are called yet few are chosen. That verse alone should make people ponder seriously. And matt 25...
There is a cost to following Jesus, get real and be loyal to Jesus and to God.
Matthew 25
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
(got oil, this is the Spirit of God and one needs an abundance of the life of Spirit!)
The Parable of the Talents
14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’ 26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
( God gives gifts and talents, both physical ones and spiritual ones, to each of His own, be proper stewards of such. For it must bare fruit to God)
The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(hm. they had the works ,and the gifts,but where is the love? The compassion ,the charity ...? The love for all mankind?) Paul says in cor 13... tho I speak in the tongues of men,and of angels but have not love. I AM NOTHING!
And tho I have the gift of prophecy, and understanding of mysteries,and all knowledge,and tho I have all faith so that I could move mountains but have not love, I AM NOTHING!
Face it God loves mankind, He sent His own Son Jesus to be the bridge back to God , the Creator of all. Yes, this turned out to be strong fuller soap. But people need to seek God from a sincere heart, so if repentence is needed, so be it....we are but children in the eyes of God, so were are still learning, and well... both God and Jesus hasn't given up on mankind just yet! Seek God and Jesus is your scriptures, that's where they live after all, that is where the wind of Spirit speaks thru.
Shalom. | |
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| 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 6:12:26 PM | Well I was trying to get at the Spirit of the Law aka agape love. Now God will lead all into truth, even in the sabbath and Feasts of the Lord and other holidays for that matter. He is the author of the 'good book' and He knows best.
Now I was instructed by rhema to keep the Feasts of the Lord and biblical Sabbath. But that is strictly between God, Jesus and myself. My walk is not your walk,as is my tribulations and purgings are not another's purgings etc. God deals with each individually.
But I did try to point out the common tread and what Jesus taught. We are only accountable to God and God showed us the way thru Jesus and His teachings. We are also all at differ levels of spiritual learning. Now don't get high minded cos God will show up and show you Jesus and one will be measured by Jesus's standards. I had this happen myself a long while back! You get humbled real fast! LOL.
In all things, it is best to take it before God Himself. And always remember the scriptures are the only guide,so it is good to meditate on it,and bring one's quetions to wrestle out efoe the Throne of Heaven, but also heed the wind of Spirit which brings revelation to the words written. In the meantime, lets not judge, that's God 's job. | |
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