| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 6:21:32 PM | this thread is ' DOES god exist?
who knows?
not you.
not ANYONE. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 6:44:01 PM | Who made who!
AC/DC
There is no God.
God is a Cop Out for weak minds. Shallow minds that can't deal with everyday life and the demands that it places on them. Instead of dealing they turn their lives over to a "higher power". The ultimate cop out.
Religion is stupid, and is for the stupids! | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 6:50:32 PM |
Religion is stupid, and is for the stupids!
Your comments are in direct violation of posted Forum rules. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:13:37 PM | No, any being that is said to have created everything, knows everything, AND is perfectly good and just cannot exist. It is impossible for all these attributes to simultaneously be present. Here is why:
1. All-good God knowingly creates future suffering?
God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.
2. Infinite punishment for finite sins?
God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely injust. The absurdity of this infinite punishment appears even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of the human's imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.
3. Belief more important than action?
Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the "gospel" of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. If we are to believe the Christians, all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus. It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned. No just God would ever judge a man by his beliefs rather than his actions.
It's not just Christianity; other religions are equally ridiculous. Islamic suicide bombers are told that when they go and bomb an israeli schoolbus filled with jewish children, they will go to heaven and enjoy the pleasures of 72 virgins. The only thing that religions have truly succeeded in is to spread hatred among people. This is not a new phenomenon - the crusaders invoked the good ol' god's name while merrily pillaging and butchering innocents.
When you see a child suffering from leukaemia, you will have to concede that if God exists, he has a very twisted sense of humor in letting that child suffer. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:33:33 PM | I suppose you've never heard of the Shifting Burden of Proof Fallacy. I'll demonstrate it to you.
I say that we all live in the matrix.
Prove me wrong.
The problem here is that the proving a negative is virtually impossible and pointless, since claims made have to be proven before the burden can be shifted. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:33:57 PM | When you see a child suffering from leukaemia, you will have to concede that if God exists, he has a very twisted sense of humor in letting that child suffer.
While not wanting to bore readers by reposting 'all' of your above quote, let me simply reply by saying that you are forgetting the one very important part of the equation:
satan is alive and well on planet earth; he was the one that was responsible for bringing sin and suffering into the world, NOT God.
God does not want us to suffer; satan takes great delight in it.
and for what's his name above there:
I say that we all live in the matrix.
Prove me wrong.
Because it is a fictional movie, as the end credits even say.
But, you are only 19 years old, with obviously MUCH to learn in life yet.
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For your below statement:
Then why doesn't God stop Satan? He is all loving...
He will, in the last Judgement, as stated in the Bible. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:35:40 PM | | Then why doesn't God stop Satan? He is all loving... | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:37:59 PM | | Good point^^ Also suffering is but a short time. The reward on the other side is forever. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:39:27 PM | It's a fictional movie yes, but does this make the situation impossible? Not by a long shot...
You still have to prove it wrong.
He will, in the last judgement, as stated in the Bible.
By waiting till the last judgement, he dooms countless lives to Hell by Satan's antics. This is not showing Maximal love... | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:40:38 PM |
Does god exist?
There is no spoon. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:41:13 PM | | He dooms no one. They doom their selves. It is your choice to believe or not only you can send you to heaven or hell | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:41:22 PM | hello fello X
I agree. nothing is for certain. Also nothing last forever. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:45:16 PM | That fact that that some wait for empirical proof is not a sufficient reason to condemn them to Hell. The fact that they may commit sin doesn't mean they deserve eternal torment. Even if the torture wasn't eternal, God must do everything he can to show people the light to remain maximally loving.
He isn't doing everything he can because he doesn't provide irrefutable empirical evidence of his existence.
He can't reach an unbeliever's mind? How can he be omnipotent then?
(PS: Hello Omega X, good to see a fellow X'er around...  ) | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:48:49 PM | It's a fictional movie yes, but does this make the situation impossible? Not by a long shot...
You still have to prove it wrong.
By your very own admission, "it's a fictional movie", it therefore does not exist.
(You had referred spcifically to "The Movie".)
He will, in the last judgement, as stated in the Bible.
By waiting till the last judgement, he dooms countless lives to Hell by Satan's antics. This is not showing Maximal love...
Again, I will refer you back to us being created with 'Free Will'; hence we choose whether or not we follow 'good' or 'evil'.
Even all other religions in the world besides Christianity express concepts of good and evil.
Without getting into a year long debate on HOW we get to heaven or hell, or who specifically will go either way, the Bible does speak that God looks on the heart of man to judge him; we humans go by outward actions, etc.
God must do everything he can to show people the light to remain maximally loving.
He isn't doing everything he can because he doesn't provide irrefutable empirical evidence of his existence.
He DID, by sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to live among us, teach us, instruct us, guide us, then he was tortured, beaten, crucified to die for us, but He rose from the grave victorious to later ascend bodily to Heaven, with a promise to return the same way.
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 7:56:49 PM | I could 'refer' YOU to many writings/teachings!
i will not
all whom claim to KNOW anything bore me
SATAN is alive and walking earth?
have a jolly ol time living in fear my fellows   
seek balance | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:04:58 PM | And what if I want to become more powerful than Satan and God both. What if I'm the almighty that everyone should fear when I die.....cause I can't die..I'm immortal.
Do you believe every story you hear? | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:06:01 PM |
I could 'refer' YOU to many writings/teachings!
i will not
all whom claim to KNOW anything bore me
So, which is it?
That's a clear contradiction there! 
YOU say you could refer me to many writings and teachings, but yet claim any who know anything bore you??
So, are you then claiming that you know NOTHING?
So, are you trying to tell us you never went too far in any school system? | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:08:27 PM |
And what if I want to become more powerful than Satan and God both. What if I'm the almighty that everyone should fear when I die.....cause I can't die..I'm immortal.
sooo, this mean you can fly too?
Let me know when you take your next flight, I'd LOVE to see that.  | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:09:10 PM | you can travel far AND wide and still learn
nothing
simpleton | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:10:10 PM | Canadian Romantic =
Shallow!
Just have to prove your right dont you.
Does the term, "Hollier than thou" mean anything to you? | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:14:01 PM |
Just have to prove your right dont you.
gee, kinda like what you try to do in here?
Welcome to Freedom of Speech.
And, to the comment above, calling me "simpleton"?
That's against Forum Rules, something for which you can be banned for.
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:22:55 PM |
By your very own admission, "it's a fictional movie", it therefore does not exist.
(You had referred spcifically to "The Movie".)
Again, you take my words too literally. Obviously I was referring to the situation portrayed by the movie. This example is one of the Shifting Burden of Proof Fallacy. If you don't believe this is an actual fallacy, look it up... Saying prove God doesn't exist is faulty becuase it leads into the acceptance of a whole variety of idea such as Unicorns, Leprechauns, Santa, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc. We can't prove they DON'T exist.. so we should accept their existence?
The evidence that Jesus even existed is called into question in this very day. How can you say this was sufficient proof? We aren't moved and seeing as God is omnipotent, he must be able to move us with irrefutable evidence and seeing as our lives are on the line, he is required to grant our request (as it is a very fair one) to be all loving.
As for Free Will, some have already countered this concept, but even in this situation it is a red herring. Our choice to sin has no affect on the fact that God can still convince us of the absolute worth of Good and of his existence. To put it simply, this isn't a maximally good world and so God isn't all loving. Those that have no faith are condemned to eternity in Hell. This is not a balanced punishment and thus God isn't all loving. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 73 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:26:48 PM | There is no God.
God is a Cop Out for weak minds. Shallow minds that can't deal with everyday life and the demands that it places on them. Instead of dealing they turn their lives over to a "higher power". The ultimate cop out.
Religion is stupid, and is for the stupids!
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Then get off this thread and let us fools be. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 12/9/2005 8:28:55 PM | The evidence that Jesus even existed is called into question in this very day.
By WHO?
References Please.
(Even die hard atheists in here acknowledge that "Jesus Christ" existed, and even those same atheists say that those who would argue otherwise are but fools at best.)
Those that have no faith are condemned to eternity in Hell. This is not a balanced punishment and thus God isn't all loving.
Your childlike arguments are indicative of one not educated in a secondary scholarly system.
But, as stated above, God has clearly given mankind ample opportunities, warnings, and guildlines/instructions.
He is not a puppet master. It is our choices here that determine our path in the beyond. | |
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