| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 1:59:21 PM | wonkavision, it seems to me that you do a great deal of reading and you sound confident in your words, that's good. But I'm a firm believer in knowing who you are talking with before you make bold statements. By the way where did you get your degree in science?
I believe in science I use it everyday as do most of us we just don't realize it. So as for being educated I am very much educated in that area, and there are more scientist than you could ever emagine that use the Bible as a compass for their work. The ones YOU yourself hear about are the ones that publicly state that fact. I along with quite a few decided to open our eyes to new thing and new idea's, in a sense we decided to look at both hands and not favor one. I mearly come to these sites to see what people think and how they think. It's becoming very easy to tell the difference between the people that have open minds and those that don't, those that know what they are talking about and those that don't.
By the way "Science is at best an educated guess." Can you tell me who said that | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 2:26:14 PM | "By the way "Science is at best an educated guess." Can you tell me who said that"
Sounds familiar, but I don't. I do concur with the sentiment though. The operative word here is "educated." There is a big difference between guessing the moon is made of green cheese and developing a logically consistent model based on empirical observation.
"But I'm a firm believer in knowing who you are talking with before you make bold statements."
And I'm a firm believer in predicating rebuttals on the content of another's argument. It is plainly clear that your knowledge of scientific methodology is wanting. If that were not the case, you would not misuse scientific terms and principles and quote the theories of frauds.
"By the way where did you get your degree in science?"
Irrelevant. If you are saying this because I exposed the spurious credentials of Baugh then you entirely missed my point. When did I ever claim to have a degree in Physics from MIT for example? I routinely express the fact in the forum that I am an autodidact. Where I learned what I know, from the library or a university, is completely irrelevant. If you doubt my knowledge, then that should be predicated on nothing but the content of my posts. That is all I've done with you; I could care less if you have a degree or not. I only care that you have exposed your lack of knowledge in this area by your words. The relevant point about Baugh is not his lacking credentials, but the fact that he is a liar and a fraud.
"and there are more scientist than you could ever emagine that use the Bible as a compass for their work."
As an inspiration, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't care if a scientists casts bones for inspiration and some may. That is entirely different than predicating a theory on a metaphysical assumption while ignoring empirical evidence. That is what real scientists DON'T do. As I've stated before, there are many Christian scientists, there are many Hindu, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist, Agnostic, etc., etc., scientists. So what? The point is they all understand the important demarcation between their personal philosophical beliefs and the METHODOLOGY of science. Something you clearly don't.
"I along with quite a few decided to open our eyes to new thing and new idea's,"
You have done quite the opposite. You have started from an assumed premise and ignored any evidence to the contrary. That is not an open mind. That is a dogmatic mind. I can't remember the name of the guy who said it, so sorry for not citing him, but the quote bears repitition-
One should keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. | |
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Rake
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 203 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 3:12:44 PM | @dashboard
This is a forum open to anyone that can make an argument, regardless of their credentials. Arguments are judged solely on their own merits and not on the creditials of the person making them. The exeption being if anyone were to state that he/she carried out an experiment that yielded observation(s) X which tended towards conclusion(s) Y, then his/her hypotheses, methodology, observations, conclusion and credentials in the field would and should be subject to the highest level of scrutiny and be made available to others for independent assessment. As far as I am aware Wonka and everyone else have based their arguments on conclusions that have already been established by others as having satisfied a credible level of substantive logic, tangible proof or the rigors of scientific methodology. If one doubts the argument then it is appropriate to request references and it is these references and the credentials of those that postulated the original conclusion(s) that may be critiqued. One may also refute an argument by offering a couter-argument citing references of their own. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 3:29:27 PM | Because he resides in another dimension, trying to explain the existence of God while in this dimension is exceedingly difficult. You have to die first. Our best evidence of late for God's existence comes from the research carried out in the field of near death experiences or NDE.
Before you write me off as a wingnut kindly visit: www.near-death.com/index.html and under 'NDE Experts' click on the name: 'pim van lommel' This cardiologist spent over a dozen years studying this phenomenon and came to some very controversial conclusions. | |
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Rake
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 205 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 3:56:59 PM | | NDE's are a statistical anomaly similar to those that have had pre-cognitive dreams. The fact is that only a small percentage of those that have been resuscitated after going into cardiac arrest have reported classic NDE symptoms. And those that have, none have been able to provide corroborating details of events that occurred down the hall or out of their field of view while purporting to be in an "out-of-body" state. I mean of those that claimed to float in the air and through the walls/ceilings should also be able to provide details of what they saw that can be corroborated by others in the hospital. Why doesn't everyone that has been resuscitated from cardiac arrest display NDE symptons? If a person has a dream that a catastrophic event will occur the next day, and that event happens, is it more likely that they have had a pre-cogitive experience or that they were one of 200 million people that went to bed the night before and dreampt of a catastrophic event? | |
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Rake
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 206 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 4:16:11 PM | | In all fairness however, I would like to note that science has not ruled out the supernatural as being the cause of NDE's, just as it has not ruled out the Intelligent Designer argument for creation. | |
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A is A
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Joined: 8/16/2004
Msg: 207 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 4:32:13 PM | columbuscowboy
…do ya expect the sun to come up tomorrow or if you drop something do you expect gravity to kick in?
I have as much confidence in a heliocentric galaxy existing 30 seconds from now, as I do 24 hours from now—save a cataclysmic event were to occur. And, being that our observatory instruments are not detecting such an event, I do take it that the Earth will continue to orbit the sun, resulting in tomorrow’s “sunrise.”
But there is another reason why I believe this:
I believe this because entities act according to their nature (how else would they act?) This being the case, we can afford to have confidence in potentials (tomorrow’s “sunrise”), based entirely on today’s (and yesterday’s) observations. I mean--if we are to have confidence in one thing, it ought to be in that which is demonstrable to the senses, correct? And since that which is demonstrable to senses is the cornerstone of concept formation and logic, it is logical to take it that we ought to have confidence in tomorrow being similar to today. (Remember, I am basing this on the fact that entities act according to their nature, and that which is not conscious)
Why ought I be confident that my senses are not “deceiving” me? Well, simply, because of my daily successes. I mean, I am alive, so I must either be realizing that which is available to be perceived, in such a way that I am able to negotiate with it successfully (accomplishing my goals), or I must be very lucky or indestructible.
There's no proof that either of these theories will continue to work as consistently, or should have been working as consistently in the past.
Theories “work” in as much as our understanding of that which a theory represents. In other words: gravity exists, not because there’s a working theory of the phenomenon of gravity, but because there is a phenomenon of gravity. Theory has no bearing at all on its existence, causes and effects.
One last thing: since we are all in the same boat when it comes to knowledge and the future, there really is no point in raising such a point, as raising such a point does not render my being able to think conceptually about potentials becoming actuals impotent, anymore as it does you being able to. The point is irrelevant to the issue at hand--faith in an EXISTING (actual) god, not in a potential. In other words: faith in an actual vs. faith in a potential.
The prblem lies in context dropping. Context dropping occurs so often is such debates, that it almost seems as though it is a valid part of it. It is not. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 4:34:19 PM | well, God does 'exist'
to the point of denying a chance at happiness
in some peoples worlds
always SOMETHIN
SAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD | |
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Lexy47
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 209 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 5:19:14 PM | | Science is at best an educated guess..don't know who said that....but do you know who said.... Religion is at best and uneducated guess?lol | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 7:35:10 PM | Lexy I guess I should answer your first question to me before I continue
I have one for him......if you or a loved one had heart problems and needed a transplant.. would you pray to your god or would you take a monkeys heart?
If it were a loved one I WOULD pray to my God and if it were me in the same situation I would also pray and I would also allow them to experiment by putting a heart in me, but it wouldn't be a monkeys heart......it's way to small.
Wonka, as for the question I ask "Science is at best an educated guess", there has never been a quote from anyone renouned or famous, it is just a fact that most people do not know but I knew that you would understand the meaning of it...... Lexy on the other hand..... I don't believe she has a clue or she just likes to try and stir up arguments.
As for the question at hand "Does God exist" There is no tangible proof, it is only faith that you can go on, much like a poker player that is holding 3 A's and 2 kings, they believe they have a very good chance of winning so they bet their life (eternity). Will they win?
I am not out to try and convert anyone or try and brain wash people. I can only express my feeling on the subject. And my deepest feelings are Yes the Bible is telling the truth and Yes my God does exist. | |
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Lexy47
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 211 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 8:45:08 PM | | Well I'm happy for you darlin...and you are right when using the term brainwash for that's exactly what religion is but only the weak can be brainwashed.... | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/26/2006 8:53:04 PM | | ^^^ Tell that to 1.6 Billion chinese, remember Mao... | |
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Lexy47
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 213 | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/27/2006 5:52:55 PM |
you are right when using the term brainwash for that's exactly what religion is but only the weak can be brainwashed....
Yes, and the younger the recipient the easier the brainwashing. In most cases this starts as early as having a child Christened. | |
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Lexy47
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 215 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/27/2006 6:50:35 PM | | I agree...altho I was christened and raised Catholic....but I'm very strong minded,intelligent and see the world for what it is..... | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/28/2006 11:10:47 AM | | Before we ask whether God exists, should we ask whether our consciousness will survive death? The existence of ghosts or spirits in our own dimension is widely documented and accepted. Some of these entities have been around in houses and castles for centuries. Although this alone does not constitute proof of life after death it definitely defies both physics and atheistic logic. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/28/2006 3:29:43 PM |
Before we ask whether God exists, should we ask whether our consciousness will survive death? The existence of ghosts or spirits in our own dimension is widely documented and accepted. Some of these entities have been around in houses and castles for centuries. Although this alone does not constitute proof of life after death it definitely defies both physics and atheistic logic.
Come again? Ghosts and spirits and spirits are widely documented and accpeted? I haven't run into many scientists who accept Ghost sightings as the real deal...
Most of the "documentations" seen are blurred images, which is impossible to work with. Ghost studies to date have remained possible, but a Pseudoscience. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/28/2006 11:21:19 PM | I haven't read everyone's response because there is just so many of them. But here is my take.
Ever since the beginning of time, god and religion was used to explain life and the universe. As people become smarter, religion and god was modified to accommodate new knowledge and technology. The integration of religion into society is multifaceted. It has served as a political laws. It even becomes a custom even for those who don't really believe in religion/god. Religion has always been written by people, modified by people, used by people, and will continued to be interpreted by people. So does God creates us all or do we create God? Does anyone else share this view? | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/28/2006 11:40:28 PM |
Religion has always been written by people, modified by people, used by people, and will continued to be interpreted by people.
Sounds like a description of Wikepedia to me.. Your guess is as bad as mine.. | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/29/2006 8:58:32 AM | "Religion has always been written by people, modified by people, used by people, and will continued to be interpreted by people. So does God creates us all or do we create God? Does anyone else share this view?"
At first glance many will agree you're right. It makes you think of the novel 'Lord of the Flies' where a planeload of choirboys are marooned on an island paradise after the plane crashes killing all the adults. You read how their Godly foundations gradually erode and are replaced by primal instincts as the boys become cold blooded savages. They erect a wild pigs head that they managed to kill and slaughter on a stick to ward off an evil "beasty" that one of them imagines he saw in the bush and this becomes their lord (of the flies).
If there was no evidence whatsoever of a difficult to perceive other dimension it would be a shut case. However, the growing body of evidence indicating another realm or dimension where consciousness exists is wearing away at this position. | |
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Ardent
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Joined: 1/24/2006
Msg: 221 | |
| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/29/2006 4:15:17 PM | "God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man."
- Nanrei Kobori | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/29/2006 6:18:54 PM | Does God exist? (had to capitalize, even thou you don't show respect - I do)
There are two ways to find out.
1) Die, go for a long walk through the pearly gates, do a meet & greet.
2) Lay back in your bed tonight and Ask HIM!
Ooops, sorry, I forgot... you kinda have to believe or #1 won't happen and #2 you'd have to be sincere or wouldn't get a response. Guess who's screwed...
Not being insulting; I am sorry for those who have not experienced God - no proof is required for those who have experienced Him; just wonderful feelings - He is what He is.
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/29/2006 6:42:18 PM | | well heres my take! heaven is beyond the sky? we have been there! space is infinate! inccest a sin? adam and eve populated the earth? incest had to be unavoidable! nine other planets god created earth? who created the other 8 planets? god says when its your time to go but doctors must be god to for they give u new life with transplants!hearts etc..if the virgin mary existed today she would be on jerry springer! i also agree with the bible always written in third person.oh and why would god expell lucipher from the heavens to create hell and try and undo all he had done? oh and if we are bad we are gonna burn in hell? i wont have any nerve endigs or any of my human senses touch smell etc...so how hot it is or me burning i shouldnt feel it! | |
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Lexy47
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 224 | |
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| Does god exist?
Posted: 1/30/2006 9:04:00 AM | | a super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature I believe God definately exists | |
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