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 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 26
The great floodPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
The bible, to me, is a giant history book where history was specifically interprited to promote an idea.

Sorta like how America promoted Democrocy and condemmed Communism durring the Cold War only instead of one idea being the enemy, it's everything else.
 chinua
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 27
The great flood
Posted: 12/24/2005 2:47:01 PM
the people in the szunami a year ago probably felt like the whole world was flooded.......way back when people thought the earth was flat; and smaller than it actually was; so they just told the truth as they knew it......i think that happened with a lot of the bible stories.
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 28
The great flood
Posted: 12/24/2005 8:34:55 PM
Exactly.
Also to those who say the bible was "divinely inspired" I ask you this: Could a human mind comprehend a story told by God? Doubtful. It would be like explaining astrophysics to a 5 year old. You have to dumb down the information so much you lose alot of it. So I think anyone who treats the bible a pure literal interpritation (which I know are few) really needs to rethink their belief.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 29
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:12:49 AM
I've always seen many of those stories in the Bible as being analogies, and not specific facts.

My belief is that all of the main prophets were just men who saw an essential truth, and then coloured it with cultural filters - thus making different religions. If God was to be glimpsed by someone today, as opposed to someone two thousand years ago, the description and explanation would be different.

If you look at the story of the great flood, that seems apparent.

Here is a God that commits genocide, except for a choosen few. He wipes out every single living thing on Earth, outside of those on the ark. Noah and his family survive, the ultimate case of getting in good with the boss.

Just ask yourself how two of every animal could have been collected ? How long would that have taken, even if possible ? How much room would have been needed ? If memory serves me correctly, the trip lasted six months.

How could food have been collected and stored for all on board the ark ? What about the waste products ? Were insects also counted ? Did all these creatures not reproduce for six months ?

Did they float along through millions of dead and rotting corpses, of every other one of God's creatures ?

After being covered with water for six months , the Earth is suddenly ready to permit life to be lived as before ? Did all the grasses and plants magically survive ?

If you start to examine those issues, in a purely logical manner, you have to realize that the story is perhaps not a factual one. Many religions and peoples have such a story, and it perhaps relates to a localized flood. That memory is passed on to the survivors, and winds up included in our mythology.

Just imagine if you had lived in the area of the tsunami recently, but without any knowledge of the rest of the world. From your perspective, the world would have ended. The planet would have been flooded. That type of event, if you survived it, would suddenly be something that would be passed on to future generations.

The facts would be invariably altered, given a long enough period of time. Just the passing on of the story in the verbal tradition would account for some distortion.

If you take the story of the Flood in that context, it in no way lessons the message being made.
 drop dead average
Joined: 1/7/2006
Msg: 30
The great flood
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:39:24 AM
I can't believe that in the age of science and reason, people actually still believe in the great flood. It's like believing in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.
 get_over_it
Joined: 1/7/2006
Msg: 31
The great flood
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:54:43 AM
yeah, most people aren't that educated about history. They do assume it was the entire planet, but it was only that small area.

Otherwise instead of Adam & Eve we'd all be seeing Noah's family as the first humans. And it is illogical to think that "then" unknown creatures from North and South America and Antartica somehow got to the Middle East without any transport in record time.

People don't think about that stuff.

BTW DROP - I agree with you.
 bolotye
Joined: 12/21/2004
Msg: 32
The great flood
Posted: 9/30/2006 7:20:07 AM
It depends on who is doing the documentary.

Ive seen documentaries that state the great flood did indeed happen, and a few that said its impossible. Depends on the person who is giving said documentary. People could go back n forth with this one till eternity.

as far as the ark being made out of pitch and wood and not being able to float, God shut the door of that ark. He sealed them all inside. Tada...if He did that, you can bet he made sure it was floatable.

The animals on the ark. You, me and the guy down the street really have no idea how many animals were all in the ark. What matters is God said take such and such animals, Noah did.

Again, if God sealed the door to the ark and was powerful enough to keep it afloat, then all the animals that were supposed to be on there, were. They all fit because he made sure they fit.

We sometimes get ourselves so worked up over the math part of things and the things we can grasp as humans, that we forget God is all powerful. Dont try to overanalyze and take apart what you are not supposed to fully understand in the first place. This is where your faith comes in . Either you read the bible for what it is and apply it, or you read it and spend your time constantly trying to pick it apart and missing the message altogether.
 taurus516
Joined: 11/3/2004
Msg: 33
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 9/30/2006 9:31:15 AM

Dont try to overanalyze and take apart what you are not supposed to fully understand in the first place. This is where your faith comes in . Either you read the bible for what it is and apply it, or you read it and spend your time constantly trying to pick it apart and missing the message altogether.


This type of thinking is what put me off from religion as a kid.I understand the moral point of the story and the value of metaphor.I understand that the point of teaching such a story is to illustrate a point,not necessarily offer an explanation for the nature of things in a literal sense.Funny thing,the clergy and the teachers in my area didn't seem to understand that.The way they taught it,it was absolute fact and you would be committing heresy if you questioned it.

If an intelligent supreme being did in fact create us,he,she it or they endowed man with an insatiable curiousity and a drive to know and understand what makes his universe tick.This creator gave us the intelligence to figure it out and learn,the ability to grow and evolve.Part of that process is the adaptation of belief systems to coincide with scientific discovery.
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 34
The great flood
Posted: 9/30/2006 9:40:19 PM
Actually Taurus, if you think about it, the only reason we have such a curiocity is because of the Tree bit. Man didn't even have a concept of nudity prior to that so it's likely we didn't have much of a concept of anything else either nor would have.

Anyway: I think overnalyzing it isn't such a bad idea. Why? Becuase you said God is all powerfull yet from what I've seen he has to play by the rules he put into place. The flood, for example, wasn't something that was just "the sea rose and rose and rose until it covered the land." or "It just suddenly came into existance in one day." Heck, why even use the flood? Why not just zap everyone and everything? Simple, easy, and quick. No ark needed.
But instead it rained. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights. That kind of rain is really the only way to get flooding on such a large scale. But to do that would require a HUGE amount of energy to boil the water, have the surrounding air extremely hot (so to maximize humidity) then to blow said air into an area with a very big temperature difference (atleast 30 degrees if not 40). Keep doing that and you'll get alot of rain.

Simply put, it seems God can put energy into a system (from himself) but can't break the laws of physics. Only bend them. So all powerfull? I doubt that. But close.
 mrgone
Joined: 7/18/2006
Msg: 35
The great flood
Posted: 10/1/2006 11:24:23 AM
Why would god wipe out life with water when it would have been alot simpler and more humane to just poof them dead? Would YOU want to drown? No. So why would God drown everyone and every thing (aside from the noah bit) and still be considered a merciful god?


My my my my my. Alot of misconceptions in this thread.

God is a scientist beyond your wildest imaginations.

You see Noah and his family were perfect in their generation. That means, the way God made man. But the sons of God (fallen angels) had found the daughters of men to be quite beautiful. So they went into them and there were freaks all over the earth. They were called the "eloheme". Cross breeds of the Nephilim (fallen sons of God). The purpose of the flood was destroy the eloheme and bring man back to his original created state through Noah's family.

The way the flood was made was, in the old days there was a water canopy around the whole earth. It was known as the "ferman". Heaven used to be on the other side of the ferman. The atmoshere was much healthier because of it and men lived a very long time. Moses was 700 and something and Methusela was the longest living man who died at the age of about 940 years old. God broke the ferman to create the flood.

The word of God tells us that Satan is the lord of the air. You recieve the images on your TV sets through the air. Satan is a muderer and a liar from the begging and the father of it.
 paulthesane
Joined: 3/14/2004
Msg: 36
The great flood
Posted: 10/1/2006 5:35:47 PM
There was no GREAT flood. Period.

The reason why so many flood narratives exist is for one basic reason, humanity settles near water. Water floods, floods destroy. If all you know is one valley, and it floods, then the whole world has been destroyed.
 nice2cu
Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 37
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 6:00:11 AM
If you're interested in a theory that explains the flood, check out a book called "Uriel's Machine" by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.
It's a very interesting read!
They talk about the possibility of a big comet striking earth at some point in the ocean, causing a huge wave of salt water to cover vast amounts of dry land. Not only could it have killed off the dinosaurs, but when the water receded it left behind pools of salt water that were trapped high in the mountains, along with various sea creatures. It would also explain how the "salt flats" came into existance since they are many miles away from the sea also, and are made up of sea salt..
They make a very reasonable argument that seems very logical.
 taurus516
Joined: 11/3/2004
Msg: 38
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 6:47:28 AM

Actually Taurus, if you think about it, the only reason we have such a curiocity is because of the Tree bit.[/quote[

Assuming that story is literally true,there would've had to have been some curiousity from the jump,or else there would've been no temptation."Eat thereof and be like gods...."
 rymseypagan
Joined: 5/18/2006
Msg: 39
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 9:55:23 AM
In an expansion of what paul said two or three posts back...


Both the gilgamesh and biblical floods refer to the same event. It was the breaking of the bosphorus strait which created the black sea.

Water levels were rising all around the world due to the global warming as the last ice age ended. Enough pressure build up and BANG the cultures that lived anywhere near what is now the Black Sea were wiped out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

That being said, anytime you have glaciers melting you're going to get massive flooding. We're seeing it right now with global warming and the rising oceans. This has always been going on so most cultures have stories about great floods.




As for the Atlantis thing, it's my understanding that the story was Plato's allegory about the demise of Minoan Crete. Plato's contemporaries Strabo, Cantor, and Aristotle regarded the whole thing as an allegory depicting what happened to societies who messed with Athens.

Feel free to prove me wrong tho, no hard feelings if you have good evidence!
 paulthesane
Joined: 3/14/2004
Msg: 40
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 4:28:43 PM
I am not talking about massive floods though, I am talking about even just your normal run of the mill flood plain overflow.
I grew up in Winnipeg Manitoba, right in the middle of the red river valley... in 1997 when the "flood of the century" (as it was called at home) occured, it turned the majority of southern manitoba practicaly into an inland sea (albiet very shallow).

such a flood occuring thousands of years ago would have been seen as the end of the world, and yet it was only local. it was catastrophic even in this modern period.
hell, have such a flood only 100 years ago and think of the impact.

That is why so many people have flood narratives. you do NOT need massive scale floods to create the idea.
 tim49250
Joined: 2/9/2005
Msg: 41
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 7:36:36 PM
To me it is this simple. The great flood is not a only a story of a flood but most importantly it is the story of someone unlike the God I know. It speaks of our Creator as someone who thinks our Creator didn't know the outcome of His creation when He created it. This is very much unlike the my concept of God described here in Acts 15:18 "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world".

Here in the story of the flood it seems that God is surprised by the actions of men. So after this revelation of God noticing what evil creatures he was making "it grieved him at his heart." so God said (according to this passage of scripture below), Genesis 6:6-7 "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air".

Genesis 6:6-7 (KJV) 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

As opposed to God knowing "all his works from the beginning of the world.".

Acts 15:18 (KJV) 18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Is our Creator some kind of Dr Frankenstein who created something He thought would be neat without very much foresight then realizes that He made a great blunder in creating man.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV) 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

This account of Genesis gives no reason why the Creator would want to clump all the other creatures in with man when he decided to "destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air".

Then in according to the next verse 8"Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. So now the Creator is, as described in this scripture, changing his mind and allows us to continue to occupy the earth along with all the creatures he decided to destroy just one passage before.
 MacRaninOFF
Joined: 5/26/2006
Msg: 42
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 7:48:52 PM
Tim, it can be hard sorting the "pearls" of the bible from the allegory. As Paul points out :-


Galations 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman. Now the son of the slave woman was conceived according to the flesh, but the son of the free woman was conceived through a promise. This is being said as an allegory, for these women represent two covenants. The one woman, Hagar, is from Mount Sinai, and her children are born into slavery. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery along with her children. But the heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, and she is our mother.


So is the flood story another allegory?? Pauls not around to tell us!!
 tim49250
Joined: 2/9/2005
Msg: 43
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 9:24:07 PM
MacRaninOFF, if this is a story representing another story then what is the story that this one is suppose to represent? When you say allegory, I somehow hear someone side stepping the obvious very loudly. How can I see anything else? You have offered no explanation of the obvious questions and well documented comments I went to the trouble to thoughtfully add to this interesting topic of discussion concerning "the great flood".

Your comment seems to say nothing concerning this topic, except that this is just another story representing a deeper meaning to the reader. Shouldn't an allegory offer a noticeable representation of another story?

I have read many stories from the Gospels that are credited to Jesus Christ that are somewhat easy to understand exactly what that deeper meaning of the allegory really is meant to represent. Where is the deeper meaning that you somehow see in this story that claims that our all knowing God (Acts 15:18) was surprised by mans actions (Genesis 6:6).


Tim, it can be hard sorting the "pearls" of the bible from the allegory.


The "pearls of the Bible" are the real allegories that Jesus told. They were often all too clear to those who they were meant for. It was clear that Jesus needed to use them so that He would not be taken by the religious leaders who acted as the government. I would tell you one of my favorites but this thread is about "the great flood" and nothing more.
 MacRaninOFF
Joined: 5/26/2006
Msg: 44
The great flood
Posted: 10/2/2006 9:34:09 PM
Hey Tim it was Paul who said the story of abrahams two wives were an allegory. I'm not side stepping the issue...
 Karn_Evil_9
Joined: 1/10/2006
Msg: 45
The great flood
Posted: 10/3/2006 5:41:43 AM
Noahs last words as the Ark sank..." Those dam termites!!!" These shows you seen on the Discovery Channel, TLC, History Channel are referred to as Hybrids. They combine actual factual information with alot of pseudoscience to keept the ratings up. Thats what its all about folks..keeping those ratings up.
 Hussain30
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 46
The great flood
Posted: 9/7/2011 3:40:18 PM
I don't know why prophet Nooh's flood (Noha in bible) is discussed only in Biblical terms when Quran has explicitly talked about this as well and the way Quran explains it, it doesn't look like a world wide flood to me. I think the flood and the storm came on the people of prophet Nooh alone. I think it was area specific.

 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 47
The great flood
Posted: 9/7/2011 4:52:49 PM
And this would explain what happened to the dinosaurs:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hIx4ZZXvCV8/TlAqNbTfacI/AAAAAAAAALA/lvI3zeual34/s1600/Noahs+Ark+-+no+more+dinosaurs.jpg
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 48
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 9/7/2011 9:59:28 PM
My opinion is quite simple as, I don't believe ANYTHING that's in the Bible since, there is no PROOF anywhere to demonstrate ir being true and real.

But that's just me
 sabbycat149
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 49
view profile
History
The great flood
Posted: 9/9/2011 11:21:11 AM
^^^^typical,,,nothing? Someone 2000 yrs ago who didn't know science explains history as God did it and it's all crap eh!
Many cultures have a flood story along with a "hero" that may be something natural like the melting of the polar ice that covered low areas with water .
The jews exodus and the plagues have been proposed to have been caused by an volcanic eruption just as a similar eruption in Africa about 100 yrs ago cause the same effects right down to children who slept on the floor were overcome by CO2 and died.
Just because someone 2000 yrs ago equated anything unknown at the time to "god" dosn't mean it's all crap
Maybe a little of that scientific outlook on info without prior prejudices influencing the conclusions might help.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 50
The great flood
Posted: 9/10/2011 6:30:04 AM
I think the flood and the storm came on the people of prophet Nooh alone. I think it was area specific.


You would be right. When the bible was written they didn't know about australia or the america continent. thus the specie of human inhabiting were not reffered to.
The flood spoken about was one over persia.back then that was the whole world to the those people
if you look at the scale of flooding queensland recently had, it was a massive massive area. probably as big as the world that existed to those who wrote bible back in the day.

After all over 1 thousand years later they still thought the world flat.
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