| |
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 11:20:45 PM | | didn't read the whole thread, but agree with the op. the hypocrisy inherent in the attitude that once you are "saved" you can be the world's biggest shithead and still get into heaven is what turns many people away from the church. going on the theory that jesus was a real person, i can't imagine that this is what he meant. we have all seen the people who go to church when they are supposed to, tithe, and all that jazz - and are really horrible people, in one way or another. they are convinced they have one of the golden ticketsso it doesn't matter what kind of person you are. then you have the people of other faiths- or no faith- who they are convinced are going to hell because they didn't say the magic words... | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 2:23:57 AM |
the hypocrisy inherent in the attitude that once you are "saved" you can be the world's biggest shithead and still get into heaven is what turns many people away from the church.... then you have the people of other faiths- or no faith- who they are convinced are going to hell because they didn't say the magic words...
Doesn't make much sense, does it, Sid? Many Christians today go on -- and on and on -- about "faith" as though just "believing" is enough. This is the so called "justification by faith alone" teaching that is stressed by some groups to such a degree that it often distorts the true and essential message of Jesus. There is truth in this doctrine but only if it is understood correctly. One cannot forget the words of James: "faith without works is dead".
Jesus Himself never once spoke of "justification by faith alone". Jesus, on the contrary, was very big on "works". Love God, love your neighbour, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, as ye DO unto the least of these my brethren ... need I go on? "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall get into Heaven but those who DO the will of my Father ..." It takes a lot more than just believing a theory about Him or making a one time commitment to Him and thinking it's a done deal. Talk is cheap. If you hope to get to Heaven, you actually have to "take up your cross" and DO what he said to do.
I don't think that Jesus is going to be too thrilled with those who have taught otherwise. There will no doubt be more than a few so called "believers" at the Pearly Gates who are shocked when they themselves are turned away and told to go back and get it right. Imagine their surprise when they see that faithful adherents of other religions and so called "false doctrines" -- who actually put the teachings of their faith into practice -- are ushered in ahead of them. For all their constant denunciations of "cults", "false religions" and "false doctrines", this is one area in which Evangelicals should "remove the beams from their own eyes" and clean up their own backyard. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 2:47:42 AM | someone said, love isn't so much what you feel as what you DO. actions speak louder than words. what kills me is that some of the same people who think all you have to do to get into heaven is be "saved", and have faith - no matter what kind of person you are, are the same people who tell me i'm going to hell because i don't believe...
i think if jesus ever does come back(provided he isn't immediately committed), he's gonna have a lot of ass-kicking to do in the churches. i can just see him saying, "who are all these people and why are they using my name?"
if jesus was real, he probably would have been pretty cool to hang out with. kinda one of the first hippies... peace, love, flowers, and all that jazz. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 3:12:24 AM |
if jesus was real, he probably would have been pretty cool to hang out with. kinda one of the first hippies... peace, love, flowers, and all that jazz.
There's not much doubt that He really existed, Sid. Not even the most irreligious "scholar" of any repute or standing would deny that. Our entire system of dating history is based on the idea of "Before Christ" (BC) and AD (Anno Domini - the Year of Our Lord). As to whether He actually performed the miracles that He is reputed to have performed including the biggest one of all, rising from the dead -- THAT there is a lot of dispute and doubt about in many minds.
Personally, I believe that He did do those things and that He is alive today. Yes, I think He was and is a pretty cool guy. Brave, strong, true, tender with the weak, no surrender or compromise with the proud, the powerful, the arrogant, the pretentious ... a real man that laughed and wept, got angry now and then, got tired and discouraged at times but never gave up, turned water into wine and enjoyed a good party now and then but never lost sight of His mission in life, one hundred percent human, one hundred percent divine at the same time. There is good reason that we are still talking about Him after two thousand years. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 3:17:28 AM | the dating thing was a roman idea. and it stuck, but most scientists prefer using c.e., and b.c.e., which is "common era", and "before common era". not going to get into a debate about the existence of jesus. it's pretty pointless, and i don't care much whether people believe it or not.
i have said before that i don't have a problem with jesus - it's his followers who scare the shit out of me. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 3:32:02 AM | | The C.E., B.C.E. thing has been commonly adopted by "scientists" so recently that it really doesn't affect the point I was making. The "Roman idea" came about because of the man Jesus that the Roman church professed at least to be based on. I had no intention of getting into a debate with you about the existence of Jesus. You seemed genuinely interested, that's why I mentioned it -- and, in a thread such as this one, the actual existence of Jesus is hardly a moot point. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 5:15:31 AM | | didn't say it was moot, just that the debate is pointless. by that i mean that i'm not interested in changing anybody's mind, and they aren't gonna change mine. i'm one of the VERY non-christians, but i enjoy philosophical or religious discussions with all kinds of people. even the nuts in here are kind of fun, as i enjoy yanking their chains... | |
|
| |
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 8:17:17 AM | " people. even the nuts in here are kind of fun, as i enjoy yanking their chains..."
Has it ever occurred to you that although Christians are only 10-30 percent or a small minority, that they are the ones who are on the right path, and others are the "nuts" as you call them? The Bible says "Broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be that go that way." . . . You are not rattling anyone's cage, but depriving yourself of what gives actualization to one's life. Nothing outside of knowing Jesus is satisfying. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 9:06:58 AM | yanking peoples chains would imply that they are in bondage to start with and could perhaps at times serve to set them free. It would also imply a total s&m mindset which I find to be no different than trying to play God. Any god.
A Christian`s lifeis supposed to be one of servitude, Not in that sic sence but in helping others and thereby setting yourself free of selfimpossed binds.
Peole think Christians are to be doormats but actually were told to be gentle as doves and as wily as a snake.
The narrow way is just that but even a child likes to have boundaries in which to grow. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 9:20:19 AM | | I don`t know if you feel the need to justify yourself but I don`t, so why are Christians always called upon to do that? Is it because were the only ones kind enough to do so? | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 9:49:32 AM | | ^^^methinks we just found two more of the nuts. *sigh* this forum does bring them out of the woodwork... | |
|
| |
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 10:33:28 AM | ^^^methinks we just found two more of the nuts. *sigh* this forum does bring them out of the woodwork...
And just when I thought these forums were about free speech and opinions, I read that those who disagree, launch personal attacks railed against them.
This seems to be an increasing theme (agenda) within these forums as of late. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 10:36:36 AM | Many Christians today go on -- and on and on -- about "faith" as though just "believing" is enough. This is the so called "justification by faith alone" teaching that is stressed by some groups to such a degree that it often distorts the true and essential message of Jesus. There is truth in this doctrine but only if it is understood correctly. One cannot forget the words of James: "faith without works is dead". So true. So true. That is why I am so wary of the "Alpha Course" that so many churches are using these days. It can be misused, and many people treat it as a "come have dinner with me and get saved" idea. But there is no real commitment or change. Very dangerous stuff.
And yes, when Jesus returns, there are going to be a LOT of churches getting their butts kicked. We can see from the Bible that God has zero tolerance for hypocrites in the church.
Art, as I've read all your thoughtful posts in this thread, one of my favourite books came to mind. I thought you might find it interesting. Maybe you've read it already, I don't know. And you may or may not agree with much of it. But I think you'll enjoy it anyway. It's by John MacArthur, and it's called The Gospel According to Jesus. It's an indepth study of justification and sanctification. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 10:37:20 AM | This seems to be an increasing theme (agenda) within these forums as of late.
 As of late Thou shalt not take the name of Mod in vain...see an old thread bearing that title...by socal1972 | |
|
| |
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 3:17:28 PM | | I would not be at all surprised if the broncos on here who buck the hardest against being a Christian, turn out to be the best Christians. The Apostle Paul was such a person. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 7:30:54 PM | Thanks, Blueberry, for YOUR thoughtful posts. I suspect that we may differ in our theology in a number of ways but I appreciate your comments and will check out the book by John MacArthur when I can. I love the "have dinner with me and get saved" line!
Merry Christmas to you! | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/19/2005 8:49:05 PM | Daviemckie, that was about the best explanation of “Eternal Salvation” that I ever heard! Great job!
Living the Christian life is not difficult at all. If you have truly surrendered your life, you don’t want to sin anymore. What you want is to do what is right in God’s eyes. When that is the desire of your heart, living a godly lifestyle becomes much easier. Of course, we all still sin, and we always will, as long as we live in these human bodies. But living a life of sin is a different story. The Bible really does seem to say that if we are truly Christians, we are not able to embrace the sinful life. I know who I was before Christ was in my life, and I know who I am now. I could never go back to the life I lived in the past. And I know my salvation is secure. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 5:41:36 AM |
Living the Christian life is not difficult at all. If you have truly surrendered your life, you don’t want to sin anymore....
Of course, we all still sin, and we always will,
Aren't these two statements rather contradictory? If "you don't want to sin", why do you keep sinning and why will you always sin? Perhaps because it IS difficult to "live the Christian life"?
It certainly wasn't easy for early Christians who had to endure being torn to pieces by lions -- and it was difficult for Jesus Himself. Otherwise, why did He pray in the Garden of Gethsemane for God to "take this cup away" from Him? Why did He say on the cross "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" I don't think it was because He was having an easy time of things. He said we have to "take up our crosses" and follow Him, ie, do as He did. Sounds rather difficult to me.
Re "we always will sin": how much CAN we sin and still be "living a Christian life" or still be "saved"? Check out the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus laid down some standards that are pretty difficult to follow and He did say "You must be perfect."
The standard Evangelical line about these things reminds me of being recruited into Amway. They tell you "four to six hours" a week is all you'll need to develop a huge business and eventually become rich. After you buy the "kit", you find out that unless you pretty much dedicate your life to it, it isn't going to happen. It's MUCH more difficult than they led you to believe. Likewise, the difficulties of truly living a Christian life are much greater than you and many Evangelicals are letting on. I think God would be happier if you were honest and told prospective believers that that they should "count the cost" of becoming Christians, that it is difficult as hell but that the rewards are worth every minute of the difficulties. Jesus did. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 9:21:32 AM | | ya so many people don`t "consider the cost "and "after taking up the plow" they "fall to the wayside", Says "a king doesn`t go out to war w/o considering the odds" and a "builder doesn`t build a house w/o having enough money" But in the army of God He " supplies all our needs" as " a general supplies His troops" How`s that for mixed theology.Where`s that mountain? | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 9:44:00 AM | Merry Christmas to you too Art!
I agree that the Christian life is not easy. In fact it's extremely hard. ("Take up your cross"). But like you said, the benifits greatly outweigh the hardships. I don't like it when people try to "recruit" people for Christ, by candy-coating it. Simple truth is the best way to go.
There is a huge difference between living in an imperfect sinful world and living a sinful life. A truly saved person will strive not to sin. We fail sometimes because until we get to heaven, we're still imperfect. But we genuinely want to avoid sinning. It's really about where your heart is. If you understand the great sacrifice Christ made for you and live in awe of that, you don't desire to continue following the ways of the world. You want to do better, be better, and show others that same wonderful salvation. | |
|
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 9:58:46 AM | I think the worst christian heresy of all is the christian church itself.
Now before you start throwing things at me, consider this.
First, Yahuweh made His covenant with the Jewish people. Not with the Gentiles (everyone else, pagans). For Gentiles to have salvation, they have to be grafted into the branch of life, the Jewish people. Second, in addition to accepting Yahushua as our Savior, we must also obey all of Yahuweh's commandments. How many of you who say you are christian do so?
We are supposed to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. It is supposed to be a day of rest, not a day of gathering in churches. There are strict rules about Sabbath travel. The Sabbath was changed by Constantine I (a pagan sun worshipper) to Sunday (the day of the sun) and all work on Sunday was prohibited. Those who worshipped the true Sabbath were punished by death.
We are also commanded to have nothing to do with the traditions of man. These traditions include Christmas (Dec 25 is the birthday of Mithras, the sungod), Easter (a pagan fertility festivile). Scripture explicitly speaks against these two holidays.
Even the names we call the Messiah (Yahushua) and His Father (Yahuweh) by trace to pagan, sun worshipping origins. There was no Jesus. Hebrew does not have the letter J. His true name,Yahushua. His name was translated into Greek as IESOUS. In Greek, names that ended in sus, seus, sous, were phonetic pronounciations for Zesus. God comes from the Teutonic Gott, a surname for Odin. All the other symbols, practices, and names of Christianity have origins in sun worship. A diabolical plan by Satan to delude the people. | |
|
Home
login 
