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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 10:53:10 AM |
For Gentiles to have salvation, they have to be grafted into the branch of life . Uhh, it already happend.
, we must also obey all of Yahuweh's commandments. How many of you who say you are christian do so?
Good luck doing that! | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 11:06:26 AM | "All the other symbols, practices, and names of Christianity have origins in sun worship. A diabolical plan by Satan to delude the people."
Is this a Jewish perspective of poor, deluded Christians? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 11:20:08 AM | First, Yahuweh made His covenant with the Jewish people. Not with the Gentiles (everyone else, pagans). For Gentiles to have salvation, they have to be grafted into the branch of life, the Jewish people. Second, in addition to accepting Yahushua as our Savior, we must also obey all of Yahuweh's commandments. How many of you who say you are christian do so?
We are supposed to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. It is supposed to be a day of rest, not a day of gathering in churches. There are strict rules about Sabbath travel. The Sabbath was changed by Constantine I (a pagan sun worshipper) to Sunday (the day of the sun) and all work on Sunday was prohibited. Those who worshipped the true Sabbath were punished by death.
We are also commanded to have nothing to do with the traditions of man. These traditions include Christmas (Dec 25 is the birthday of Mithras, the sungod), Easter (a pagan fertility festivile). Scripture explicitly speaks against these two holidays.
Even the names we call the Messiah (Yahushua) and His Father (Yahuweh) by trace to pagan, sun worshipping origins. There was no Jesus. Hebrew does not have the letter J. His true name,Yahushua. His name was translated into Greek as IESOUS. In Greek, names that ended in sus, seus, sous, were phonetic pronounciations for Zesus. God comes from the Teutonic Gott, a surname for Odin. All the other symbols, practices, and names of Christianity have origins in sun worship. A diabolical plan by Satan to delude the people.
Kara, yes the Jews are the children of God, and Christian Gentiles are the adopted children of God. As far as obeying all of God's commandments, we know that salvation is not something earned by doing good. It is something that Christ sacrificed himself for on our behalf. So we strive to obey his commands. But if we mess up, that does not mean we have lost our salvation.
The rest of your arguments are semantics.
If you want to get technical about Sabbath, the seventh day of our week is really Saturday. So going to church on Sunday shouldn't break your rules anyway. As well, Christ performed miracles on the Sabbath. Church is not work. It is a place to worship and learn about God. Sabbath should be a day to rest and meditate on God. If anything we should be going more, not less.
I fail to see the relevance or basis of your whole "name" explanation either. That has nothing to do with who God is. He is the great I AM, and our saviour. There is nothing pagan about that. Most of the New Testament was written in Greek. That's the language they spoke. It doesn't make them pagan.
I do agree that much of Christmas and Easter celebrations have a mix of Christian and pagan roots. And I too have a lot off issues with that. Christ was not born in December. But there is still nothing wrong with celebrating His birth or his death and resurrection. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 6:23:16 PM | | it seems that the sun god is the new fad that i think is very well marketed in the same way Green Peace was. By the time they came in everyone was wearing a button | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/20/2005 6:49:42 PM | | Disputes about which day of the week we should keep as the Sabbath really fit into the category of non essential "doctrinal differences" that needlessly divide Christians. If a particular group really feels that, for instance, Saturday is the proper day to set aside for rest from the workaday world and as a day to recharge one's spiritual batteries, by all means, they should observe that day as such. But to spend precious energy on convincing other Christian groups to do the same is a waste of time and a distraction from the essential teachings of Jesus. Furthermore, persistent and vigorous debates about such things only make Christians look foolish, petty and divided to the "non believing" world out there. As Blueberry points out, Jesus deliberately broke laws held sacred to the the Pharisees and other self righteous persons of His time to make the point that it's all about the "spirit of the law", not the "letter of the law". | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/21/2005 10:31:01 AM | so true art. the letter of the law was written as a type of school grade learning to enable us to go on to the true meaning of the words.
someone had said that Jesus rewrote the the old testement ie " an eye for an eye" and used that as a sumise that the scripture is inconsistant when Jesus says don`t even sin in your mind. The law was in affect in the old testiment as the stepping stone (understanding)(taking it one step further) to grace(god`s unmerited favor) in the new testiment.
also it has to be taken into account that new testiment believers are actually new creations and therefore new rules apply.
as in the law of the land where individuality is beaten down by blanket laws for everyone so in spirituality.it is written"romans 14:22 the faith that you have , have as your own conviction before God. Blessed are those who have no reason to condemn themselves of what they approve" | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/21/2005 9:22:01 PM | | 'non essential differences needlessly divide Christians". so true art. so much time is spent arguing over minute details that have nothing to do with essential doctrine. such are traditions made of. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/27/2005 6:38:26 PM |
I do agree that much of Christmas and Easter celebrations have a mix of Christian and pagan roots. And I too have a lot off issues with that. Christ was not born in December. But there is still nothing wrong with celebrating His birth or his death and resurrection
This is a true statement, however when would be the right time and season to celebrate Yahshua's birth and His death/resurrction? Would this have been important to Yahshua? Would He be outraged that His birth was tied to a pagan holiday and all the pagan trappings are being used to "remember" His birth.
Yes we agree His birth is very important, if a certain day were to be set aside to do so, would He feel it very important to reveal that to us? We believe that His birth was important not because of the day of it which no scholar has been able to find out but it's important because He was born, this should be something we celebrate every day of our life not on one obscure day that has nothing to do with His birth whatsoever and has everything to do with witchcraft. We believe that birthdays and the celebration of them are deeply rooted in Astrology, which is fortune telling and Scriptures tie fortune telling and witchcraft one and the same. Astrology is using the position of the planets and the star's to fortell your future life happenings or fortunes.
As for His death and resurrection, these can be remembered and celebrated in a Messianic Passover Seder.
Steve & Kara | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/27/2005 7:52:27 PM | ruthere - druidism comes from the ancient celtic people, not the roman invaders, who brought christianity with them. the romans killed as many druids as they could find, to discourage the people from practicing anything but christianity. st. patrick was a roman, or roman affiliated priest, who was actually responsible for mass-murdering druids, whose major symbol is the serpent, which is where the whole "driving the snakes out of ireland" thing came from. it's a very sad thing. the ancient druids were amazingly well educated. there were three classes - 1) bards, who could memorize teaching sagas that took days to tell, and who were charged with keeping the oral traditions of a people who didn't rely on the written word because the written word can be changed (they had several systems of writing, including the ogham runes), 2) judges, which is pretty self-explanatory. they kept the laws and settled disputes., and 3) healers, who had an extensive knowledge of herbal medicine, much of which was lost due to so many of them being killed. they had the reputation of being very skilled. the church refused to allow any sort of healer who was not affiliated with the church to practice, on penalty of death. many midwives were killed during the burning times, the justification being that women were supposed to suffer during childbirth. does that clear things up any?
sisterwife - witchcraft has NOTHING TO DO WITH SATAN. pagans don't believe in the christian god of evil. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/28/2005 7:12:43 PM |
sisterwife - witchcraft has NOTHING TO DO WITH SATAN. pagans don't believe in the christian god of evil. Not sure where satan was mentioned in relation to witchcraft, possibly you could explain that statement a little bit more. This is a true statement, however when would be the right time and season to celebrate Yahshua's birth and His death/resurrction? Would this have been important to Yahshua? Would He be outraged that His birth was tied to a pagan holiday and all the pagan trappings are being used to "remember" His birth.
Yes we agree His birth is very important, if a certain day were to be set aside to do so, would He feel it very important to reveal that to us? We believe that His birth was important not because of the day of it which no scholar has been able to find out but it's important because He was born, this should be something we celebrate every day of our life not on one obscure day that has nothing to do with His birth whatsoever and has everything to do with witchcraft. We believe that birthdays and the celebration of them are deeply rooted in Astrology, which is fortune telling and Scriptures tie fortune telling and witchcraft one and the same. Astrology is using the position of the planets and the star's to fortell your future life happenings or fortunes.
As for His death and resurrection, these can be remembered and celebrated in a Messianic Passover Seder. Steve & Kara | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/28/2005 7:53:54 PM | I couldn't edit my last post sorry to post twice before others have posted however I ran across a definition of a witch in oxford online and found it interesting.
According to Oxford online ...witch--hag is another name for witch--"1 woman supposed to have dealings with Devil or evil spirits. 2 old hag. 3 fascinating girl or woman. witchcraft 1 use of magic. 2 bewitching charm. witch-doctor tribal magician of primitive people.
Steve & Kara | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/28/2005 7:56:30 PM | "We believe that birthdays and the celebration of them are deeply rooted in Astrology, which is fortune telling and Scriptures tie fortune telling and witchcraft one and the same. Astrology is using the position of the planets and the star's to fortell your future life happenings or fortunes. "
Geesh.... whatever happened to just plain old thankfulness for the safe arrival of a blessed soul and the remembrance of such. I personally don't consider the celebration of my birthday an exercise in "witchcraft". It allows a personal , albeit minute, timeline anchorage in this vast cosmos of "ages". Birthdays also allow a day of celebration/contemplation and recognition of the deliverance of "me". On the other hand, the more birthdays I have the less I celebrate them  | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/30/2005 4:22:31 PM | | The once saved always saved thing? Man..though, if that were true, I'd be having one h*ll of a hayday by now! | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/30/2005 6:44:49 PM | Art and Soul:
In order to actually answer that question fully, there must be an examination on where the doctrine "saved by grace" came from originally.
Paul was travelling and proselytizing his 'version' of the new Jesus movement to both gentiles and jews alike. His teachings were much in conflict with the 'pillars of the church': James and Peter and a few others who were back in Jerusalem and who actually had inheirited the 'torch' from Jesus. James, being a very pious Jew, believed and practiced that works was the way to God, along with prayer. You can see this illustrated in the book "James". It is also in keeping with the Yeshuva ben Joseph lived his own life: prayer/good works.
Paul taught a very different doctrine that was much more accessible to the people he was trying to reach. Along with the 'saved by grace' doctrine, he also absolved people from circumscion and from following the dietary laws. Again, all of these 'changes' from the norm served to bring in more conversions for Paul from the Gentile population but raised serious concerns for those back in Jerusalem.
A question to ask about this, that might help dissolve confusion is just to ask...How did Yeshuva ben Joseph live? And to pattern your life after his. He upheld the dietary laws, was circumscized, practiced good works and followed the Jewish traditions.
By the way, I am not a Christian but I have studied the evolution of the religion from a cultural/socio-political/historical perspective.
Ciao
Kytasau | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/30/2005 9:05:33 PM | | ^^ I have to respectfully disagree with that idea. Paul's teachings were not at all in disagreement with Peter and James'. He was called to preach to the Gentiles, so there were different elements to consider. And he sure did not sugar coat it. He was persecuted and eventually martyred for the words he spoke. | |
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