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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/13/2006 6:11:47 PM | Hello artandsoul. As to sins having varying degrees of consequences please review the laws in both Numbers and Deuteronomy where it is commanded that various animals and varying amounts of money be given and paid for different sins (each animal having its own value indicates the severity of the sin); and premeditated murder (fonyounce in Greek) being different from manslaughter, rape, kidnapping and drug dealing bearing the death penalty (which was repeated in the New Testament). About the parts of heaven where some can see God and some cannot: that is in the description of the temple i.e. some are restricted to the outter court (can't see God), some allowed into the inner court (can see GOd), and some into the holy of holies (can be in the presence of God).
About the "faith without works is dead" in the Bood of James: Some say that James was the half brother of Christ. Others, with whom I agree, say he was a different James, called James the Just; because he was self-righteous and did not accept Jesus as Christ until after the resurrection. James would allow non-Jewish believers into the church, but wanted them to be circumsiced and wanted to require them to follow the food laws - this is the same issue as was between Peter and Paul for which Peter finally apologized. And, whereas James said in 2:17 "..faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." and in 3:20 "...faith without works iis dead?" to be contrasted with Paul's letter to the Ephesians in 2:8 For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: 2:9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Several scholars have studied James' used of the word "without" (as used in his day by the Greeks) and have shown that without can be inclusive or exclusive: faith without (failing to keep the Torah) is dead; or faith without (keeping the Torah) is dead. Their conclusion is that James meant that the laws added to the Torah must be kept - the 960 odd laws that were never cannonized, and by his other writings included the rules and ordinances which Christ nailed to the Cross (leaving only the 10 commandments of the Old Testament and the two commandments of the New Testament. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:25:09 PM | There are fruits of repentance. Once saved always saved is a doctrine from mans own head to make life easier for him. If Jesus lives in you, how can you continue to live in sin? He will not and can not continue to stay in a vessel that is "unclean". Luke warm Christians will be spewed out!
There are Christians who struggle with sins knowing that they sin and beg for mercy and grace to survive them. Then there's the Christian who thinks he's totally saved and can just sin all he wants. For him there will be a point where even he will never be saved having put Jesus to open shame.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
Heb 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.
This shows they were once saved, but lost it. You have to stay in faith to make it to heaven.
IMHO! | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 12:31:13 AM | | The problem with your statement sunshineface2 is that if your right no one will care and if the Christians (as am I) are right, we will not want to see the look on your face. No Christian wants to see any one go to the lake of fire that was meant for disobedient angels. It was never meant for man. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 7:03:44 AM | I'd love to see your faces (if it were possible) if/when nothing happens after life.
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Satan hates us because God has given to us what he really wanted so he wants to take as many of you and I with him as he can.
There is only one way that Satan can hurt God and that is by leading His children away from life.
The problem with your statement sunshineface2 is that if your right no one will care and if the Christians (as am I) are right, we will not want to see the look on your face. No Christian wants to see any one go to the lake of fire that was meant for disobedient angels. It was never meant for man.
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Mockery is for fools. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 8:08:23 AM | Its not necessarily mockery. Could just be a geniune observation. Then again it could be mockery. Who knows why she said it? Maybe its just her way of saying she's not sure about and is curious what actually happens after we die.
And (this is my opinion), I think sinners only get punished if they are knowingly sinning against a Lord they beleive in and are being openly defiant.
If they believe in something else, there's nothing that says they are wrong, and whatever beliefs they have will happen to them.
I can't see a good Buddhist monk dying, showing up at the Gates of Heaven and saying "What the...?" right before being cast down for being a sinner or not believing in the Christian God.
That wouldn't be fair considering, what did all the pre-Christainty humans do (Persians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Vikings, Greeks, Romans, Native Americans, Asians, Aboriginals, etc) before the existence of Christianty's God come about 2000 yrs ago?
Surely an ancient Greek in 2000 BC or some Amazon tribesman didn't get sent to Hell for not knowing about the Christian God? That wouldn't be fair. They'd be subject to Christian rules AFTER being made aware of the religion and even then only AFTER they chose to accept it.
Thats just my opinion. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 8:21:47 AM | And (this is my opinion), I think sinners only get punished if they are knowingly sinning against a Lord they beleive in and are being openly defiant.
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I agree with that completely.
Sunshine 2 may or may not have been seeking...which anyone on this forum most likely is.
One of the best things about the forum is good , bad , or otherwise we are all pretty much naked in anomynity , and there`s always someone who will call us on it. xxx | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 2:02:25 PM | dear jackyfrost,,
I guess the answer to your questions of PRE Christians is very complex.
and I am not sure if anyone alive has the 100% true answer.
as far as someone who lived before the birth of Jesus-
"If" they believed in the prophecy and that the fulfillment would be the messiah.
so they believed that in the future tense Jesus would come.
and as those who were / are alive after Jesus look back to Christs birth and death
as the fulfillment of the prophecy then they would enter heaven
= many of the old testament Prophets told of the future coming but
I believe it was Issiah who is most attributed with this.
Now for the twist to you question / answer
that is a good person before or even after the coming of Jesus-
lets say that they had not heard the teachings of Christ or Gods word-
they have not been ministered to , not witnessed to never heard Gods name at all..
It was said that the Natural man yearns the understanding of the creator.
they lead a good life and then they eventually die -- what will happen to them??
3 of the Gospel writers write that Jesus's last instuction before capture was of the "Great Commision" and that the word of God must be taken to all the corners of the Earth before the Second Comming - What happens if you live in on of these places that has not been ministered to?
I had asked Christian Scholars years ago some of these questions
with mixed responses ---
one question was Gandhi -- Ok he is DEAD
and he lived a good life --- full of peace
and as a peace maker he helped many people live and avoided senseless slaughter.
now he is at he Gates of heaven
and I was told he would be denied -
because he KNEW of Jesus / God but did not accept them as such
so because of his denial he would be cast out.
I hope this may help and urge others to contribute | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 6:49:54 PM | I had asked Christian Scholars years ago some of these questions
with mixed responses ---
one question was Gandhi -- Ok he is DEAD
and he lived a good life --- full of peace
and as a peace maker he helped many people live and avoided senseless slaughter.
now he is at he Gates of heaven
and I was told he would be denied -
because he KNEW of Jesus / God but did not accept them as such
so because of his denial he would be cast out.
Thank God that it isn't your so called "Christian scholars" that make the decisions at the Pearly Gates. Apparently, they haven't done their homework.
They seem to have missed this line: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." Perhaps you could let them know when you see them that this comes from the Sermon on the Mount -- that's the sermon given by Jesus that Gandhi said "went straight to my heart". Perhaps, by the time you got to those "scholars", they were so advanced in their studies that they had long since forgotten the first book of the New Testament? It's a good thing -- for India and for the world -- that Gandhi, while he walked the earth, was far too busy actually practising the teachings of Jesus to occupy himself with deciding who gets into Heaven and who gets "cast out".
Really, my friend, shouldn't you think for yourself on such matters -- or find some better educated scholars to consult? Don't you see that this kind of silliness put forward by people who masquerade as learned teachers is exactly what drives so many intelligent people away from the Christian faith altogether?
Nevertheless, the efforts of such "scholars" aren't a total waste. No doubt, when the angels in Heaven take a break from dancing on their pinheads, they have a great laugh about the presumptuous folly that so often passes for Christian wisdom and learning here on our silly planet. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/14/2006 8:44:44 PM | Bajajohn,
I apologize. I didn't mean for my posting to get you bombarded with criticisms. I'm sorry. Best to remain silent on this forum and disagree in silence, lest you be trampled. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 2:57:18 AM | it is Saturday night and we can all go out and sin
because tommorrow is Sunday and by grace we will all be saved.
be very careful freinds with the ideas of a Pre Meditated GRACE
or pre meditated Sin --- very dangerous ground | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:00:34 AM | The rise of the evangelical Christian Right has fascinated me. My personal spiritual belief has been a constant through my life, and like the OP, is formed from a combination of sources.
I respect the spiritual, and reject dogma. Far too many of the die hard religious ( and not spiritual, let me make that distinction quite clear) people I have met in the course of my life talked the talk - but never walked the walk. They have been some of the most hate filled people I have met.
That isn't painting people with a broad brush, because I have met some great people that are religious, and very spiritual. The latter is the key. If you have ever met a truly spiritual person, you will never see a religious person the same way. They are not the same, and not even close.
As I have posted many times here, I really do feel that one's faith is a private matter. The ultimate proof is how you live your life, and how you treat your fellow man. If live your life according to your faith, every moment of every day, then that is the best commercial you could ever make for the value of faith.
I really do feel that, if more people thought that way, the world would be a lot closer to Heaven.
Just a quick look at the headlines proves my point. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:06:38 AM | THat`s what Jesus did . Gave an example to follow. Nice post. There is someone there..
.. Have a great nite.. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:18:22 AM | | Many hindus feel that ghandi is misunderstood by westerners as an almost mythic figure because he supported the caste system and the hindu laws governing it, subjugating human rights to this day while being revered in his time as a pacifist. The bible contains different messages as pacifism is concearned. The ideal is to be like christ. It is hard to condemn a man who will die for peace, selflessly. It is also hard to condemn a man who elevates a man to martyrdom while saving his life, Christ made mistakes as a man, and then died. God's decision for his own sacrifice made him a martyr, and made us like ghandi. If we would give our life to his honor and subscribe to his teachings through the testiment, then we have to make the same case for the bravest of men as well. I am exercising respect for the doctorines in both cases, and not making a moral judgement, but as I question the authority of prescribed docterine as it exerts forces and interpretation to the men who would use it without the moral fortitude of the aformentioned gentlemen I would rather save the details of their lesson plan and take with the weight my own free sights, after all that's why god gave it to me. Right? Both men have wonderful names. If the unsaved brings the message of christ, who else would be saved? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:20:19 AM |
Bajajohn,
I apologize. I didn't mean for my posting to get you bombarded with criticisms. I'm sorry. Best to remain silent on this forum and disagree in silence, lest you be trampled.
YOUR posting, Getoverit? Whatever in the world that is supposed to mean, Baja hardly got "trampled" -- unless you call suggesting that a person think for themselves a "trampling".
The supposed "Christian scholars" that he quoted, on the other hand, must be suffering terribly at the beating taken by their ill considered pronouncements on Gandhi's eternal destiny. It's perfectly acceptable though, I suppose, for the same "scholars" to proclaim, in their infinite wisdom, that such a saintly person will be denied entry to Heaven? Rather presumptuous of them, don't you think?
Meanwhile, one can guess that on a regular basis these same "scholars" are busy assuring some grossly sinful wretch -- whose conduct in life wouldn't make him worthy to carry around Gandhi's worldly possessions at the time of his death (a pair of glasses, a bowl and some sandals ) -- that the Pearly Gates will swing wide open for him. Why? Because, at one moment in his life, he prayed to Jesus and (supposedly) accepted Him as Saviour and Lord -- whatever that means, given that it seemed never to occur to him that accepting someone as your Lord involves paying some attention to the directions He gives you and actually DOING something about it!
Can't you just picture the scene at the gates of Heaven? Here comes a rank sinner, let's say a gangster ... nicely dressed in his Armani funeral suit ... St. Peter checks the records and says, "Hmmm ... I don't think the Lord will be all that thrilled with your efforts down there, Lucky ... extortion, murder and ... wow ... quite the list of sins you piled up! I don't know ... this isn't looking good .... Oh, wait! I spoke too soon... on the bottom of your application here ... man, you really are lucky! I see you got that deathbed confession in and accepted the Lord at the last minute. Step right in, you're saved! Jesus did all the work for you. He must be getting your room ready now."
Then, along comes a frail little brown guy in a loincloth. St. Peter pulls out the file and says: "Let me see ... here you are ... Gandhi, Mohandas ... I've heard of you. You're the one they called 'Mahatma' ... it says here that's English for 'great soul' ... hmmm ... years of tramping around India to spread the word about love and nonviolence ... years in prison ... living in poverty while you worked to make life better for those poor 'Untouchables' ... and fresh from being murdered at a prayer meeting for your work as a peacemaker! Wow, good stuff, Mohandas ... you sound a lot like Jesus Himself!"
Peter reads on, pauses and sighs, then continues: "BUT ... unfortunately ... it says here that you weren't a real Christian. Look here... you died with the name of an alien god called 'Rama' on your lips ... shame, shame, Mohandas! And, here in your own writing .... all this silly talk about 'I am a Hindu and a Muslim, a Christian and a Jew...'! You know, Mohandas, you can't say you didn't know better!
Remember all those good Christians who told you to stop knocking yourself out doing all these good works and worrying so hard about actually practising the principles in the Sermon on the Mount? You heard them when they told you that all you had to do was to 'cast your cares on Jesus' because he had already done the work for you! Remember, you even gave them a hard time about it -- you kept insisting that you sought to be saved not just from the consequences of your sins but actually from sin, even the desire to sin, itself!
Sorry, Mohandas ... no banana for you ... good works alone just don't cut it around here! You didn't have the right kind of faith ... and there's really no excuse for it. You're a smart man -- you should have listened to your Christian friends. I really hate to do this, Mohandas -- especially after letting that last clown in -- but rules are rules, after all. I'm not the boss around here, you know .... you'll have to head down those stairs on the right ... you might as well take off the loincloth on your way -- it's pretty hot down there and you're going to be there for a long, long time, unfortunately ... OK, who's next?"
Is it cruel of me to mock such a horrendous misinterpretation of the Christian scriptures by supposed Christian scholars? Is this a "bombardment"? We are here in a forum discussing a Christian heresy, ie, a false teaching, after all and -- as ridiculous as the above scenario is, it does sum up that heresy. People who want to perpetuate that kind of thinking in a public forum should be prepared to defend their belief in it.
Baja's probably a decent guy and I wouldn't be surprised if his scholar friends are too. I don't judge any man -- God knows that I have my own failings to account for and perhaps He may turn me away and tell me to come back when I get it right. We do have a right here nevertheless to judge a theory that needlessly drives many reasonable people away from the faith altogether and that really is not fit to be taught by any Christian teacher. Let them come and defend their theories if they can. There's a line in the Bible that says "let not many of you seek to become teachers..." If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:24:46 AM | Thanks.
If you want an interesting take on Christianity, try the Jefferson Bible. Written by Thomas Jefferson ( yeah, THAT Thomas Jefferson) it takes all the metaphysical card tricks out of the life of Jesus and simply presents Jesus's philosophy.
. Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible
The interesting thing about that, is that the philosophy still stands up well. Even an atheist would be hard pressed to say the essential message Jesus talked about is a bad one. I don't think the Bible is an exact representation of what Jesus probably really said. Over time, the message must have been clouded by the transition from his initial thoughts, to what we have today in writing.
I do think that by looking at the message he preached, even taking it outside of a religious context, we can begin to see why he was regarded as someone of great importance by the people he touched. We can see echoes of that real Jesus, and the roots of his messsage.
That message seems to be a universal one, and shares a common ground with many other religions. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 4:43:26 AM | In the East Christ is rising to moral and spiritual dominance. There are cross-currents it is true, and there are oppositions, but neverheless out of the clash and strife of ideals He is rising dominant. Call the roll of the reforms that are taking place in the East today, whether in the social, economical, political, or religeous life, and you will find that every single reform - if ti be a reform and not a reaction- is goung straight toward Christ. Not one is going away from Him. Pg 321 Christ on the mount, E. Stanley Jones
Even implyed rubbish is still rubbish Art | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 6:06:24 AM | Just look at something like abortion, and the problems that dogma present there.
Right wing pro-lifer's are quick to say that killing an unborn child is a horror and a sin. To them, it's murder.
Now try and talk about birth control, and about sex education with them. Those two things, made freely and widely available, would prevent that murder.
The United States has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the western world, despite the fact that our teens are not more sexually active than Swedish teens, or Canadian teens, or British teens. Why? Because we don't educate about birth control in sex education classes, we don't discuss it at home, we don't give teens good access to it, and we don't advertise it in our media. Other countries do, and they are rewarded with low rates of teen pregnancy and teen abortions. But, you say, making condoms available in school-based clinics would ‘give kids the wrong idea’. In fact, 5 recent research studies indicate that it doesn't.
Educating teenagers about contraception makes them more likely to use contraception when they begin having sex, but it doesn't lower the age at first intercourse. Why? Probably because the decision where and with whom to become sexually active is a very complicated one, rooted in family, peers, religion, the media, and individual personality factors. But the decision whether to contracept or not is a very simple one: is it available? If so, Ill use it. If not, I’m still going to have sex, but I’m not going to go out of my way to get birth control. Until Americans get over their hysteria about giving young people access to birth control, we will continue to have the highest teen pregnancy rates in the western world. It's really that simple..
The religious extremists have even gotten to a point where some drugstores will not sell counterceptives. Look at the battle over something like the new Barr Pharmaceutical drug called Plan B (Levonorgestrel).
It can prevent a woman getting pregnant ( up to 89 percent effective) up to 72 hours after having sex. It will not kill an existing fetus. It is not RU-486. It's medically proven.
In the USA, there are only six states where you can get it over the counter without a prescription.
WASHINGTON, July 23, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - This May, the Food and Drug Administration rejected nonprescription sales of emergency contraception, in the midst of controversy. Now the manufacturer of the abortifacient drug is again pressuring the US government to allow its sale without a prescription. The FDA decision left a loophole when they said they might reconsider if the company, Barr Pharmaceuticals, could show some way of guaranteeing that the drug will only be sold without prescription to girls and women over 16.
That is stupidity at it's best.
If murder of a fetus is the worst crime possible, then something like Plan B should be freely made available to any woman of child bearing age.
It doesn't kill, it just stops something from happening.
Because people are trapped in their dogma, they will not take solutions that will reduce what they label the worst possible thing.
Ironically, the people they label as being the enemy are not promoting abortion. Those people are some of the strongest advocates of birth control, and of sex education. No sane person sees abortion as the best alternative.
The religious right only offers abstinence as their solution. We have all seen how well that works.They are responsible too for those deaths, due to their lack of any ability to see the forest for the trees.
All because of dogma. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 6:59:24 AM | Yes I absolutly agree that preventing pregregnancies are a solution to the murder of unborn children.
But the preventions available are most often no less deadly. | |
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| heresy.........................
Posted: 1/15/2006 6:59:48 AM | in reference to my early post and replies:::
First -- I was answering a question posted by "Jacky Frost" before my post
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please read her question and then my answer
she was asking about the BC people -- Greeks, Egyptians and others Before Christ
now ROB --- you have your beliefs as you are entitled to
but Jfrosts question and my answer were not dealing with
only or directly the subject Modern Christians as you
have written about - it was a much broader idea
So I will re direct a question for you ROB
In the 44 or so books of the OLD TESTAMENT ---
there are people who walked in the PATH of GOD
some may include -- Noah, Issac, Isaiah, Abraham, Elijah,Daniel
I am sure you get the picture --
According to your premise
Where are those people today
heaven or hell ??????????
as you stated == they could not possibly KNOW Christ Jesus
so as peoples before Jesus and since the flood
about 2400 years of FAITH existed before the birth of Christ -
so of these 2400 years or so of JEWS and Followers of GOD
what became of them --- ???
did God cast off 2400 years of followers, faithful, Israelites and the
chosen remnant ???
that may touch better on the dialog of Frost question and my answer-
now for ARTSOUL
please try to read the full context of an answer and maybe the question
posed before hand
before casting your opinion --
when I referred to "C.. Scholars" you should have been able to detect
by that time in the post that it was more tongue and cheek-
I had already discussed Natural Man and those that could not have been
taught GODS word --- so in the micro context that you decided to site
you seemed to miss the whole boat ---
the reference to Gandhi should tip you off,,
we probably were more on the same page than you may have thought,
as none of today's "THEO-LOGOS" , can speak direct of "GODS- WORD" (direct greek)
There is only one mediator between GOD and Man ---
we can have church and communion anywhere we want at any given time...
Churches, Schlolars and Man have not always acted in the best interest of
GOD.
Some have had other agendas=
You do need to seek your own heart and soul for the truth
good teachers will cause you to think on your own and make change.
it would be nice to hear from someone who has been on mission trips to
3rd world countries and may have some insight to the great commission. | |
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| heresy.........................
Posted: 1/15/2006 7:09:42 AM | : ...
God must first convince us of our unrighteousness before we can repent. If He`s done that and then rejected?? If He has not convicted a person of their unrighteousness then I would say they`re right with God.
Nice little small fish, Art, but have to throw it back. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 7:13:53 AM | Montreal, the only problem with being a 'good' person is that in the sight of God, our good deeds are as filthy rags. We can't measure up to his standard, hence why Jesus had to pay the price for our redemption.
Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you? Have you ever looked upon a women with lust? What does that make you? Just a few examples of the 10 commendments and how we can't keep them. But Jesus did. | |
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| pre meditated sin and grace
Posted: 1/15/2006 7:33:59 AM | Every body does things that you wake up the next morning and go "why did I say/do that"
The person who has come to know the incredibly huge thing that Jesus accomplished, so huge that no human could ever have made it up,
has Him covering our bases for us even tho we do mess up. And that`s not about eternity. It`s about facing the next day with dignity cause my God has been there and He says it`s OK, just keep going,win your race with blinders on and just keep your eyes on me at the finish line.
He`s everybodies coach, teammate, cheerleader and bootcamp Sarge
And the more you get to know Him the more the mess ups cause the more sensitive the conscience | |
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| heresy.........................
Posted: 1/15/2006 7:38:36 AM | ....now ROB --- you have your beliefs as you are entitled to
but Jfrosts question and my answer were not dealing with
only or directly the subject Modern Christians as you
have written about - it was a much broader idea
So I will re direct a question for you ROB
In the 44 or so books of the OLD TESTAMENT ---
there are people who walked in the PATH of GOD
some may include -- Noah, Issac, Isaiah, Abraham, Elijah,Daniel
I am sure you get the picture --
According to your premise
Where are those people today
heaven or hell ??????????
as you stated == they could not possibly KNOW Christ Jesus
so as peoples before Jesus and since the flood
about 2400 years of FAITH existed before the birth of Christ -
so of these 2400 years or so of JEWS and Followers of GOD
what became of them --- ???
did God cast off 2400 years of followers, faithful, Israelites and the
chosen remnant ???
that may touch better on the dialog of Frost question and my answer-
They all went to heaven to be with the Lord God. Heres the true reason why they had sacrifices before Jesus came to Earth as a man. The sacrifice of the sacrifical lamb was actually a symbol and a temporary solution to sin. In other words, killing a lamb to cover your sins was a prelude to Jesus' ultimate sacrifice on the cross.
Now, to understand this better, God is not limited by time. Jesus dieing on the cross 2006 or so years ago in effect, was paying for the sins of all creation, past, present, and future. So sacrificing a lamb was God's substitute for Jesus' death later on.(When in fact, since God isn't limited by time and we are, Jesus dieing on the cross paid for all sins, past, present, and future. I hope I made this clear enough. | |
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| heresy.........................
Posted: 1/15/2006 8:06:59 AM | Rob , you recognize the pattern of thousands of years of sacrificing animals to pay for sins so that our minds could understand the sacrifice of Jesus.
The pattern was also of tabernacle, temple, so we could see how His presence abides in our bodies ; tabernacle/temple/indwelling
The pattern of marraige to show clearly the relationship between Husband and Bride to be accomplished in the New Jerusalem, yet in affect now as each believer, in the heart, knows daily how to respond to their Spouse... | |
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