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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:03:23 AM | I believe that the bible is part fact and part fiction.
Historically, as far as names and dates of places and thier locations, it is most likely correct. Historically the cultures and behaviours of the peoples of those times is most likely correct.
However, thier concept of who God is, what he wants for man, and the reality of Heavenly Law is seriously distorted. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 12:45:52 PM |
creepycarrie,
However, thier concept of who God is, what he wants for man, and the reality of Heavenly Law is seriously distorted.
give is a few examples why HL is seriously distorted! | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 12:56:41 PM | passportcharlie
Sorry to butt in, but you are obviously very new here and don't read the threads much. There are many, many people here who are just as convinced man, in its translation, has poisoned the Bible. We soldier this all the time... read up. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 1:08:10 PM | | Perhaps, Skypoetone, a kinder thing to do would be to copy examples as you must know where they are or allow someone new to discover that on there own. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 1:23:40 PM | | Not trying to be unkind at all, it's just that repetition is time consuming... I'd love to spend more time here but can't. Okay... I suggest reading the threads "False prophesies in the Bible" and "Are these passages for real". :) | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 2:05:16 PM | Charlie,
and those who are interested...
This is embarassing for me a bit, but I cannot remember the philosopher who wrote on the subject, but I can remember the way in which he 'named' the problem that people are discussing with regards to the accuracy of the bible.
I want to say it was Willard Quine, but I know he called it the "Indeterminacy of Translation". It is an interesting area of writing. I am sure if you google it you can find a number of websites that talk about the problem.
Hopefully that helps. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 7:08:48 PM |
However, thier concept of who God is, what he wants for man, and the reality of Heavenly Law is seriously distorted.
Can't be too distorted. The bible has saved millions if not billions of lives.
<----*runs for cover* | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 7:40:01 PM | from my understanding, the bible, is more of a book of geneology of the roots of the jewish people. it also contains a vauge version of the pre history of the evolution of the planet, and its peoples. The is much pertinent information that is kept from the public for many reasons.
some of these facts are bound to remain secret forrever,. how ever other facts are available to those who seek.
i would strongly recomend the works of Zecharia Sitchen's Earth Cronicles for any one who seeks more information than your average Catholic priest feels comfortable sharing with you! | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:22:38 PM | skypoetone
Sorry to butt in, but you are obviously very new here and don't read the threads much. There are many, many people here who are just as convinced man, in its translation, has poisoned the Bible. We soldier this all the time... read up.
you are excused for butting in and I also excuse you for being somewhat arrogant. you can have your opinion about the bible and those you believe poisoned the Bible. Everything you said of me is pure arrogance and you sit there at your computer looking down at us, teacher. You don't do yourself what you ask of your students, homework. Who care about who monitors, we soldier, this all the time. if you wish to see my replies and my authored postings your opinion of me would change, but I doubt it. Pull up my postings by using passportcharlie as the username and read up! If those who write and don't include backup to what they write don't deserve the time or respect to their communications. They imho are to be asked continously for proof and sourced examples. Those who post strong opinions without proof continues the necessity to be watched and scrutinized by the soldiers like yourself who stand watch all the time for whatever that means. However in reality you do not have any authority to dictate who writes what. 
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:30:02 PM |
i would strongly recomend the works of Zecharia Sitchen's Earth Cronicles
there is a thread just started and using 'earth cronicles' in the forums search engine thread title should give you the location. The first few posts have a tremendous amount reference sites about z sitchen includes cites which debunks/favors sitchen and his works. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/17/2006 6:20:13 AM | Charlie,
Out of interest you may want to read Davidson's work himself, and his essay on a Twin Earth; it is really interesting stuff and I imagine you might enjoy it.
_________________________________________________________________________
In respect of the bible being fact / fiction...this is my limited take on the matter...
Consider the advance in knowledge from the time the bible was written up to present day. I wonder if that knowledge impacts many peoples views as the bible being fictional in some respects. Whereas in the past many events would have been ascribed to God's hand, those same events today seem to have a logical explanation.
However, with respect to morals and 'living the good life' I tend to agree with Charlie. The book seems to give some solid advice. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/17/2006 8:12:32 AM |
your (sic) end up with a book which have the words of truly living a real life
Should I assume this includes good morals? If so, where? The Bible condones slavery and presents women as property. The main characters in the OT do all sorts of wicked things (by today's standards) and God doesn't rebuke them for it. As long as they have faith God turns a blind eye to their evil deeds and actually bestows wealth and power on them. Things don't get any better in the NT. Jesus tells people not to call others fools, but then calls people fools all the time. Jesus urges people to hate their families and even themselves. On a couple of occassions he's rude to his mother. Even the Golden Rule isn't that great. Do we really want masochists doing unto others as they would have done unto themselves? | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:30:04 AM | passportcharlie
I don't have an opinion of you. That would be a bit silly has I don't know you and even if I did the point at issue here is the "bible fact or fiction". I don't need to be forgiven for being arrogant because I'm not. Let's just stick to the issue, which in any case cannot be proved or disproved. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/17/2006 7:54:54 PM | skypoetone
Let's just stick to the issue, which in any case cannot be proved or disproved.
you don't wish to write out the details in what you believe therefore we don't have a good debating foundation. You made your statement and here is mine, i can prove the Bible is correct.
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/17/2006 8:34:49 PM | Charlie...
Your statement "I can prove the bible is correct" is interesting for a couple of reasons the first being: what do you mean by correct, and secondly, what in the bible are you referring to when you note that you can prove its 'correctness'.
I think this has the makings of an interesting discussion, but as I am going to sleep, I will have to read when I rise and shine for work.
Brain.. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/18/2006 6:48:43 AM | Not here to make enemies but…
"i can prove the Bible is correct."
I'm waiting with 'proverbial' bated breath.
What I believe?
I'll keep it short; to quote John Lennon "God is a concept by which we measure our pain."
This may prove to be right but it may also prove to be wrong... it's all down to belief. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/18/2006 10:02:54 AM | | The bible is a collection of other peoples books the apostles and disciples books. It is called ONE BOOK...but really it is...."A COLLECTION OF BOOKS " you take 30 people and each have a book or two ect. Combine as one book . These are witnesses those that walked with the messiah and there own talk testamonies ......many choose to believe it and many choose to not believe it ect. The stuff about Paul is only collected Letters he wrote to the churches and synaquoges . It is like if you and your friends wrote religious disscussion letters to people in Israel or Iraq then 1 thousand years past and the researchers unearth old ancient letters you wrote.....all it takes is a group of folks to make up the book of collected ancient letters and your letters would be added but you past away ect. It the same scenario cycle. A Collection Of BOOKS and stories. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/24/2006 11:16:22 PM | | Here the rest of you have your opinions on what the bible means to you. Personally I won`t watch it being destroyed by mere opinionated people, for whatever reason they have. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:33:40 AM | I`m not interested in fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed man and unfortunatly even my old buddy art 7 soul can`t repeatedly turn up as in his words he was banned for 2 yrs with no reason.
[Trolling/Flaming - Profile Deletion soon if he doesn't stop creating multiple accounts] | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/30/2006 10:35:16 PM |
out on a limb here! I guess I want to know why so many think the bible is such an amazing book of text. Now I have read the book a few times and learned alot. However so many make it a lifestyle, and I feel they don't realize taking that book word for word is not how it should be done. It is a history book each peice is gathered from differnt people. Now it is true to say 'a war started this day between these 2 groups of people' however the bible goes past fact and adds personal views. How can some take that one person expierance and make it fact. make it a way to live by. Not to mention all the storied were translated by so many diffrent cultures before it every came to its present day print, how do you know its not all BS! It could have been some childerns storied grandpa made up .... We made it God didn't tell somebody go find writing of this and this and make it what all christians fallow. For real what is going on here? what did you learn, history, timelines, the word of Jesus Christ? is it possible to be confidence when 2 aposels are compared and both have harmony between, 3, 4 how many? imho, the most important part in the bible are Jesus' words usually in red characters. you must believe and trust yourself fully with Jesus. If you cant do this you are death in the woods. His words are an self improvement book. tony robbins has used the bible to his self improvement seminars, tapes, cd's. gee what a less than $10 bucks for a bible tony reaped 100's a million if not over a billions for copying the ideas of Jesus words into an up to date self improvement program. the proof is in your result when you see success and rewards for changing you life in the words of Jesus. its a guide book for all stages of your life even answering fears about death.
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| bible fact or fitcion: Bible...Fact AND fiction
Posted: 1/31/2006 4:16:07 PM | I can no longer resist posting to this thread. Religion has been a major study interest in my life, and has included study of Greek, Latin, German and Hebrew languages, and culture of these various societies. Bible History is complicated and complex. And everyone has their own opinion, just as I also have an opinion formed through both experience and study. In fact, many of the contributors to this thread have made some valid observations, and others have voiced valid complaints and questions as to the validity of the Bible, and the religious sects which have resulted from various interpretations of the Bible, as well as other religions.
However, there are as many differing opinions as there are levels of ignorance. The wise man, knows that he/she lacks ultimate knowledge of any specific and seeks for more knowledge that may enhance the comprehension of those elements of life which are still mystery. Here is the area where empirical study gains and contributes to our overall knowledge by physically demonstrating,,,what some call, "Proofs"
In the realm of esoterical, or mental or imagination, producing proofs is a great deal more difficult. Belief and faith are mental processes, not necessarily based on any tangible or demonstrable proof, though some might assume such proofs exist.
In my experience, which included virtually fifty years "In the Faith", including both membership and experience and study, of both Protestant Faiths, including the Assembly of God, and Seventh Day Adventist, just so you the reader may understand that my experince is legitimate. My personal study of Bible includes research into every type of criticism, aplogetics and harmonies...including the Josh McDowel book on Jesus. My study includes the History of the Church Fathers, and how the Church manipulated through countless corrections, collaborations of hundreds of unknown authors, efforts to both synergize dozens of the major mythical pagan cult religious practices into a unified and cohesive religion to satisfy the needs of the new Emperor of Rome, Constantinius in the Third Century, CE. It was a near stroke of genius for Constantinius to select Eusibius to collate from all the hundreds of available religious writings of that era, and by judicious censorship, eliminate what was in his opinion injurious to the newly founded new Christian sect, or religion.
However, again, mind you, even Eusibius was not perfect in his selection, nor in the later years, neither were the various CHurch Fathers able to harmonize the multitude of errors that were part and parcel of the various religious writings of the early church.
There has been serious and excellent scholarship dedicated to both sides of the greatest debates concerning the validity of both Religion, per se, and the actions of members of variouis religious sects. The facts speak for themselves, and even a modicum of research will produce some of this history, and also will produce both advocates and antagonists. You can find support for whatever theory you wish to embrace. Herein is the wonder of it all. There are over six and half billion persons on this planet,,,and there are just as many opinions on what constitutes valididty and truth, and that ranges from wonderful ignorance, what constitutes tradition to wonderful expertise, the result of hundreds of hours of study, both pro and con. SO what do you believe is a time honored question. What is your opinion, is the result of little or a lot of thought, research and study. GOOD for all of you.
Now. My opinion. The Original Source Documents,,,which are certainly difficult to comprehend if you cant read the language in which they were authored. If you read a translation, you are bound to the interpretation the translator may impart. I am continually amazed at how many different interpretations can be found from the same Source Text. IF you read carefully, however, even the majority of English translations of the Bible, which was originally written in HEBREW/Chaldean, and the New Testament, written in Greek, is as one contributor pointed out, a collection of books and letters. Nothing unusual therein, except when the Church Father Eusibius tried to harmonize, by censoring what in his opinion was not beneficial to the Christian Theme of Jesus, probably established the conundrum of Biblical apologetics....what was truth, and what was corrected by redactors and editors?
Close analysis reveals that great portions of the New Testament are not accurate translations and even less accurate representations of the OT, Original Source. The history of the OT as retained in the meticulous coping of the Jewish Scribes over three thousand years reveals that the Original text maintains incredible consistency, as also demonstrated by the Dead Sea Scrolls. COmpare this textual accuracy to the known and recorded and still available from Church history books, the hundreds of variations,,,well, that for Christianity is its primary weakness as far as maintaining the credibility of the Christian New Testament.
It is the prima facie evidence, that if editors, redactors and copists could not maintain the accuracy of the New Testament, why should anyone accept it as their Life Guide?
Good Question. Obviously, one should examine what one believes in as far as Texts, very carefully. Most Christians are not given the tools to analize the New Testament, however, I am going to suggest a website that might both help as well as provoke some of you to think seriously about what constitutes the Truth, which you may be hoping will be a God inspired guide to "heaven", or at least, as for some of you, a good guide for life style to moral and ethical behaviour. www.ChristianityRevealed.yahoogroups.com.
I know, and you know, that it is no import what I believe... but if you are basing the eternal life of your soul on the New Testament, then it should be important enough to investigate and if possible,,prove beyond a shadow of doubt that your soul is indeed on the right road. Personally, that has been my life endeavor. The study gives me the insight, and the proof is in both Thinking and reasoning by asking the necessary questions. I cant ask the questions that will give you your satisfaction,,,no one can, except yourself. But the answers are there. They have been sought out by countless generations of men and women, some a lot wiser than myself. The answers are there for those who are serious, and not frivolous minded. Its a pleasure to read about how each of you have entered into the discussion of this question. It is one of the most important you could ask. Keep on asking the questions. May You find your Answers. Peace. w l.
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| bible fact or fitcion: Bible...Fact AND fiction
Posted: 1/31/2006 4:34:46 PM |
give is a few examples why HL is seriously distorted!
Sorry PassportCharlie; I sort of lost this discussion..participating in so many I sometimes forget....
Well of course my view on heavenly law is just a personal belief; a belief in how I perceive God to be, and what he wants for man.
The bible shows us a God who is vengefull, hateful, cruel, vindictive, jealous; a mass murdering ba$tard who seems to enjoy using us all as pawns with nothing but destructive hellfire as an end result. I believe this portrayal to be totally FALSE.
The bible portrays a game between God and Satan to see who wins our souls...sorry, just doesn't jive with me. I think God is much more intelligent in his purpose!
I believe that men in the bible days were very naive, they had no concept of science, virtue, or morality. They used scary stories to explain thier existance, and a harsh God with the attributes above to describe thier purpose on earth and hereafter. They then used these so called "facts" to keep everyone in line, by developing the laws of earth with the laws of heaven (punishment by not obeying, eternal hellfire), this is simply not the way it is.
The true God is loving, kind, and intelligent. Giving God the attributes of human frailties is making him into a man, not a God. I believe he is much more civilized then we are! The God of the bible is an outright lie in my opinion...a being invented by Jews who wanted to gain power amoung thier people.
Heavenly Law is Love and all that it entails. If you want specific examples of how the bible portrays God as vengeful, hateful, cruel, etc...well there are literally HUNDREDS. | |
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CASK
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Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 249 | |
| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/31/2006 5:07:38 PM | I get what you're saying but unless you are christian and live by faith and the word, most people won't get it, as it's fairly deep.
More simplistic would be to say that in order to truly appreciate and understand the bible you have to be guided by the holy spirit because only then can it's truth be revealed.
What you read on the surface is only exactly that, only surface. It's like an onion that once you peel away the layers a greater truth is revealed. To get there you simply have to pray and ask your heavenly father to open your heart and mind and help you to see his truth.
You will be blessed by this! | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/31/2006 9:23:02 PM | Cask, this is what all christians say , and believe me I am very experienced with the bible. I was forced to go to Church for years. Then I went of my own free will to youth group, and stuck with christianity until adulthood. I was "saved" hundreds of times at the alter. I studied the bible with a concordance, and have read it cover to cover too many times to count now. I have prayed for guidance, holy spirit , truth, and "knocked at the door" at least 500 times in my life....I guess it hasn't been opened like Jesus promised, because I still see the bible for what it is...a law book made by MEN.
Everything you have said is fine and dandy, but holy ....how many times does one have to Knock???? | |
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