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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/27/2005 1:44:58 PM |
That is the reason the stories are compiled together in the first place...because of the popularity of each.... Someone says,"I heard this story....yada..yada"" and viola' it gets written down by a guy that knew how to write..
It is Fiction...every bit of it...
As asked earlier, do you have facts to back up your grossly mistaken, fallable and ridiculous claims?
In the meantime, since you claim to be a learned individual, I would suggest you read 2 books:
1) "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" and..
2) "More Evidence That Demands a Verdict"
Might just open your seemingly blind eyes and narrow vision somewhat. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/27/2005 7:04:44 PM | "Created more wars than all of humankind put together?"
What!? From a purely gramatical and logical viewpoint, that phrase makes no sense whatsoever. Try to write things that mean something next time. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/27/2005 7:09:45 PM |
That is the reason the stories are compiled together in the first place...because of the popularity of each.... Someone says,"I heard this story....yada..yada"" and viola' it gets written down by a guy that knew how to write..
It is Fiction...every bit of it...
By that logic, everything written down, EVER, by a person, would be entirely false. Stating that the Bible contains many mythological and inaccurate statements is common sense, but to argue that the inclusion of those statements makes the historically accurate parts automatically fictional is ridiculous. George Washington never threw a coin across the Potomac, but there WAS still a Washington. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/27/2005 8:50:29 PM | "As asked earlier, do you have facts to back up your grossly mistaken, fallable and ridiculous claims?
In the meantime, since you claim to be a learned individual, I would suggest you read 2 books:
1) "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" and..
2) "More Evidence That Demands a Verdict"
Might just open your seemingly blind eyes and narrow vision somewhat."
Prove it wrong, Illl stop saying it.... All you are producing by the vitriol you spew is evidence that you are hateful and not at all interested in the truth... The truth that you do do not approve of,...
I am not interested in your invective, or how ugly you can get (a good amount I would guess), ...I have no agenda as far as you and your "narrow vision" go...I am interested in the TRUTH..
It is you who is hiding behind your beliefs (alleged) to snipe and make hateful comments... If you are right in your "faith" your god must be sooo proud of your willingness and ability to follow something as simple as the sermon on the mount...
Again pumpkin, the OT was asking a question ,...not asking you to engage in a dogfight... | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/27/2005 9:03:49 PM | "
By that logic, everything written down, EVER, by a person, would be entirely false. Stating that the Bible contains many mythological and inaccurate statements is common sense, but to argue that the inclusion of those statements makes the historically accurate parts automatically fictional is ridiculous. George Washington never threw a coin across the Potomac, but there WAS still a Washington."..........
Huh???? Whaaaaa????
Look it really is simple,...if you are purporting that something is GOD'S WORD... then it follows that it is PERFECT... INFALLABLE.... How you can then casually revert to excusing parts as having "mythological and inaccurate statements " and still maintain that it is GOD'S WORD is simple idiocy...
You are not convincing me or anyone that you are correct by telling me that the candle is burning/non burning...producing Light/ non-light...
I dont understand your allegation that I contendied (extensis to my "logic") that Everything Ever written down is false...And ..C'mon...George Washington?????? Are You Kidding??? | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/28/2005 1:24:35 AM |
I am not interested in your invective, or how ugly you can get (a good amount I would guess), ...I have no agenda as far as you and your "narrow vision" go...I am interested in the TRUTH..
You SAY you are interested in the 'Truth', but yet when given factual reference books to read, you dismiss them...Sounds more like you are interested in 'flaming' in threads like these rather than any so-called 'Truth' you claim to be interested in.
Your Junior High School mentality in attempting to bait others does not really work well with those of an obvious higher education that yourself.
You have the glaringly transparent mindset of: "My mind is made up; Don't confuse me with the Facts."
I challenge you therefore to actually seek that Truth you CLAIM to be 'interested' in, rather than make broad, fallable generalisations with no basis in fact or credibility.
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/28/2005 2:29:15 AM | Wildfirefly, do you believe in and accept God? God is Jesus Christ The life style you mention are values and morals. The Bible is The Word of God. St Paul occuplies probably half the new testament. Fortunately for us His Words were written and many scholars have taken much time to confim The Word. Take Moses and the Ten Commandment, are those values and morals you wish not live by today. Reading each commandment can you see wrong from right. Would you like to point out where the Bible adds personal views which does not include the word and deeds of Jesus Christ. Naturally The Word is in the new testament from Jesus Christ life on earth as son of man. Everything before that is just history. The first covenant came from His Father and His Father Sent his Son to Earth to moderize the old to the new.
email me if you need further clarification | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/28/2005 5:59:47 AM | "You have the glaringly transparent mindset of: "My mind is made up; Don't confuse me with the Facts.""
Are you serious??? Challenge away pal...You are uninteresting and angry, and hateful... I have no further time to spare on the likes of you...sorry I wont respond to your antics any longer ,..guess you'll have to strangle a kitten or something to make yourself feel better...
What I know as a fact is that Christianity does not codone behaviour like you are exhibiting and you might be better off if you take your brand of "beat 'em up,smash 'em down" christianity and employed it with a whites supremacists group (if you have not already) and stop attacking people because they disagree with what You have already decided is the unassailable truth...
Invective, and anger have never served your religion well...but you just go on with your "righteous" self and keep attacking people who are trying to answer questions...which I was... I just was not making any angry attempts to indoctrinate...
And I wont ...ever...
YOU are the person here who decided that God both wanted and needed Your help in defending HIS WORD...
So be it,...clearly you are stronger than your god.... man that must really make your ego wiggle...
Junior high school???? please....
If and when you decide to calmly and peacefully debate this question with personal attacks...I Might respond to you with "Facts" .....but till then...remember .you might follow this post with some spit flinging furious response and Get the Last word...but you will not win my consent..and what you will accomplish is simply reinforce what I already felt about you...but you wont win a thing...nor make a good impression to whomsoever it might be that you are pandering to... | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/28/2005 6:18:13 PM |
...and stop attacking people because they disagree with what You have already decided is the unassailable truth...
Kinda like, what you have done with YOUR hateful rant above?
Wow, you GOTTA be related to Charles Manson, right?
I simply pointed out your attitudes, tactics, and rhetoric for what they really are;
THANK YOU for reinforcing that for the whole world to see with your last posting.
And of course, as predicted, you obviously do not have the proverbial intestinal fortitude to truely seek 'truth', by reading the reference books I mentioned.
What I know as a fact is that Christianity does not codone behaviour like you are exhibiting ...
Pot calling the kettle black, but this from you who feels the entire Bible is fiction?
Puuuuullleeeease.... | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/29/2005 9:31:20 PM | essaress my friend, what do you think does not allow you to see?
Have you even read post 98? HAve you read the above message to that?
Also I know something you may not, Jesus misses you.
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/29/2005 9:51:09 PM | dear evil kyro,
you my friend are exactly on the right path and Jesus is definitely taking care of you when you committed and gave Jesus you heart and soul. By your own words written here in this forum especially this thread, you are close if not not already a man of wisdom. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/30/2005 3:30:10 AM | When are people gonna wake up and smell reality?
Do we believe in Mars the god of war? No
Do we believe in Venus the god of love? No
Zeus? Appollo? Ra? Cthulhu? or even the Necronomicon? and all the rest of the things humanity USED to believe in? No, of course not.
Its the same thing with the 'bible'. All made up fairy tales, some stories may have been at one point based in fact, but over the years grew into something else. Did ya ever play the telephone game where something was said to the first person and by the time it got to the very last person, what had been said had become something else entirely? Thats the bible.
Was Jesus Christ a real person? Probably, and I'm sure he may have been a good person and taught good things. Was he the son of god? Absolutley not! The bible may have good ideas about how to treat people with respect and such, but so does the average Disney movie and so does all good story telling.
It seems to me that 'religious' people are so narrow minded in their thinking, it has to be their way or no way. But wait, there are so many different branches of 'chistianity' that think the same way, and just who the hell started thinking that the new version was better than the old one anyway? Or that their version of god was better than somebody elses? On top of that, there are so many different 'religions' that also think the same way. Are they all right or are they all wrong. I saw all wrong. Most of the 'religions' believe in the same basic thing anyway, why can't they all just get along? There were so many 'religions' LONG before christianity came along what makes this one so special? Nothing!!!!!!!!!
Religion as a whole has caused more problems than it has helped. Look at the wars that have been fought, and all the people killed and treated horribly because they didn't share the same belief as a 'christian', and some are still ongoing to this day because of religious beliefs. Its absolutley disgusting. I'd say a lot of 'christians' are of the same thinking as the Nazis , 'we don't like you, we don't like what you believe, we're gonna get rid of you'. You talk to somebody who isn't 'religious' and most are open to various things, you talk to a 'christian' and they completly have tunnel vision about their way and their way only.
'christians' have nothing but beliefs, the rest of have facts. End of story. And for all you religious fanatics, don't tell me to go read some fairy tale, go get the real truth for yourself and try to expand on your beliefs. Nothing you can say will make me believe in your so called 'faith'. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/30/2005 3:35:08 AM | essaress my friend, what do you think does not allow you to see?
Have you even read post 98? HAve you read the above message to that?
Also I know something you may not, Jesus misses you.
How the hell does this guy know anything 'jesus' says?
jesus is dead, long dead. news flash kiddies: you actually don't know anything for a fact. you just have a belief. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/30/2005 3:56:09 AM | | I can't wait for the movie "The Da Vinci Code" to come out. I know its partial truth, partial fiction, but it was more believable than the bible. And, its gonna piss off a lot of religious fanatics who can't see past their own nose. I read the book and LOVED it, because it was entertaining and it threw so much in the face of religious christianities beliefs. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/30/2005 2:30:47 PM | Yeah,...Eviltwin...I do know what you are saying...but again...this thread was about answering a questioner's question....I agree with nearly everything you are saying...I just wish that there was a possibility of "objectivity" and "candor" in discussing these things but in all the years since I was a minister....I have yet to hear a "true believer" who was actually able to do so...
It always devolves into a series of personal attacks while at the same time attempting to shift the "blame" or responsibility for those attacks onto the person being beaten up...Like I said earlier,..it does a deep diservice to a religion that has done some laudible things... But the question here was (originally) Why do people believe this book and attempt to mold their lives after what they are precieving it to be saying???
And unless I did not unfderstand what you were saying,..I think both you and I have answered the question without resorting to calling upon a person's emotions to "get" what we both were saying...Neither did we demand "Faith" or "Belief" from the question asker...that is (to me ) the correct approach in responding to a question of this sort...simple un-apologetic answer...
Thanks Eviltwin... | |
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rhusbr
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Joined: 10/30/2005
Msg: 116 | |
| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/31/2005 12:00:06 PM | Wildfirefly, I would say the Torah and New Testiment are closer to source documents for history. At one time, several Torah books were "official" history at a time in the past, designed to keep the flock unified in the face of hard times. The New Testiment stories were not committed to writing until after the alleged authors died, having been conveyed verbally for up to 70 years after their deaths. Modern literary analysis notes 7 distinct writing styles in what is now called the standard version. Moreover, the present form and content of the Bible was deternined by Europeans, who decided at an early juncture what was to stay in and what was to be left out at various canonization conferences, if memory serves.
In one class I took on the subject, the first exercise was to look at 25 versions of the Bible. One Christian sect did not like it, so it wrote another with different heros. A lot of the so-called fundementalist faiths' publications had material differences with the King James or the standard on major issues like virgin birth, etc. In sum, its Christian and Jewish mythology, and pretty good literature. Some truths or themes are enduring and compelling. Otherwise, it was a compilation of efforts by an agrarian civilizion to explain things and keep the faithful in line. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/31/2005 3:04:55 PM | rhusbr
the most important words in the bible are The Words of Jesus Christ" if there are ambiguities between books within the bible it is probably opinion if The Words from Jesus are quoted word for word. I'm in the percentile who believes in Jesus and through Jesus I live my life. imho, through Jesus Christ, not referancing your rely, death is a fact as least for the death of ones body. Jesus has taught there is an additional body called the spirit thus giving mortals the abilitity to overcome the fear of death. Ones who disagree with it allows death as the end to the means. Ones who believe in death, as such will try most likely to use alternatives means to stay alive, as they believe one continues ones life in others, writing books, trying to prove theory as their truth and use their will power for others to believe them, etc. I rather spend this value commodity called time giving my love to my family and teaching them my best values and best morals. I say best because we are all sinners. With this thinking it allows one to soar higher above ones own obstacles which hinders ones progress, as Jesus intended one to do so.
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/31/2005 3:27:46 PM | correction to msg 117
"With this thinking it allows one to soar higher above ones own obstacles which hinders ones progress, as Jesus intended one to do so."
should read, With this thinking it allows one to soar higher above ones own obstacles which hinders ones progress, as Jesus foremost has intended one to do so. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 12/31/2005 3:43:12 PM | The three religions in the Levantine tradition, Judasim, Chrisitianity and Islam are the only religions in the world that view their religion in terms of historical accuracy. For the rest it doesn't matter since the message tends to get lost when you're looking for historicity. As soon as you get mired in wondering if the religion is right historically/realistically you run into a whole wack of problems and you cannot justify it's accuracy.
Historically Realistic? The bible is not historically accurate as many of it's passages are in contradiction from other known secular sources that were contemporary with it. (Discounting those sources that were later tampered with to jive with Christian history, namely anything by Josepheus).
Spiritually? The bible, like all great holy books, speaks truths that are timeless and appeals to trials that human beings suffer. I believe Essaress referred to this in one of his earlier posts. | |
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rhusbr
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Joined: 10/30/2005
Msg: 120 | |
| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 10:15:18 AM | Passport,
On the historic reality of Christ, readings show no contempory cooberation. That is, we cannot go to another source, like Roman historian writing from that period, to get some cross verification of who this was nor what really happened. All holy books embellish; they are epic tales that carry messages. It is supposed by historians using the Christian source documents that some sort of regional cleric trying to reform or scism from the parental religion, Judism. Historiography of the era is tough, given the lack of written records. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 2:38:20 PM | | rhusbr, the Word of Jesus Christ is not embelished, everything Jesus said is true today, one only has to believe to start to start the process. One does not have to understand history to believe. Believe now and it will come true. Then believe in Jesus and you'll enter a world which would be unbelievabe to most, except you.. | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 3:07:20 PM | | Hi.I am a woman who loves and fears Our Lord Jesus Christ. When I was not saved yet, nobody had the nerve to come up to me and husband and tell us that Jesus was the way, the truth and the life. So God lead me to a woman at my new 6 month job which I felt God had given to me and my little family. I said to her that I had heard that she was a chrsitian and if she could tell me a few things about God. She was also married and invited me and husband and two kids to her house for sat. lunch. Her husband led me and my husband to the Lord. I still cry over that day. Even though my catholic God had given me my now 28 yr. old job I still have by His grace, nothing in life compares to my personal relationship I have had all these yrs. since 1979 with my walk with my savior Jesus Christ. I still have my own dreams and desires, but for me I will serve the Lord. I knew as a 6 yr. old child I was called by God to serve him. My husband did not stay in his faith and we all struggled because of his rebellion. But through my husband and my salvation my entire family and some relatives got saved in the Lord Jesus Christ. I was the book worm educated one in my family, my husband was the rebel. I cannot live a life without my Lord in my life. His Word is true and real in all of my sisters, brothers, mom,real dad, aunt Lucy, aunt Rosa, cousin ...lives, some in the catholic church, some in a christian church. I am far from a perfect example as a follower of Christ, yet people at work still ask me for prayer and things about our Lord Jesus Christ. I intend to commit to a christian church nearby. Let us pray for revivel in the U.S.of A. Begining today. Dahlia. | |
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rhusbr
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Joined: 10/30/2005
Msg: 123 | |
| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 3:33:01 PM | | Last time I read Mark, in the "standard" version, Christ claims linage to David. Was he only trying to be a good Jew? He was constantly correcting the then Jewish clerics of the day. Or was he the leader of a scism? Seemed to me that he was trying to work within the system. But would appreciate your theories. Also, why is the Torah, the Jewish holy book otherwise known as the "Old Testiment", part of every Christian's "Bible"? | |
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| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 6:34:13 PM | | matthrew outlines genology, mark? Please quote mark. do you mean SCHISM instead scism? if schism is correct i suggest studying st paul, 1 corinitians and 2 corintians. schism is a noun and is a division of a group into opposing fractions. The only group Jesus was head of was Him and his apostes. Schism? | |
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rhusbr
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Joined: 10/30/2005
Msg: 125 | |
| bible fact or fitcion
Posted: 1/2/2006 7:28:44 PM | | Pass, I have not read this stuff in years, and I might have the wrong reference on the Christian mythology, but I'll move to another point, since you won't answer the the main issue I rasied. Show us a historical, non-christian contemporary cooberating evidence of the life and times of Christ. That would make it a slam dunk for all of us. I would think rising from the dead, etc. would have attracted some attention from the Roman empire or surrounding societal historians of the time. You only have Christian documents written, perhaps made up, after the fact, or as I've said, embellished. Where's the beef? | |
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