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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/6/2006 7:45:23 PM | I agree with you undercover blond...earlier versions of the bible are rare but still in existence today and contain many of the so-called lost books...and that is why it is sometimes difficult or frustrating to argue with followers with only access to the "modern" versions...because the references are not in their "modern" versions of the bible....
wiseone | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/6/2006 8:10:51 PM | Sorry to hear about that.
hmph, the term christian enough. Sounds like he doesn't understand what it means to be a follower of Jesus. It's not about being 'good enough' to be a follower, if thats what he is at all.
Jesus only came to die for sinners, not self righteous so called perfect people.
When I step off the deep end a little, I wonder,.,. Why did Jesus die for our sorry behinds? I ponder it a bit and think, because he really does love us that much. I cant begin to ponder his power, but I do know this, he has no equal.
No matter how my life turns out, it was because of his will, for the better.
So to sum it up, he wasn't the right person for you and it's a good thing it didn't work out. Some of us guys that profess the name of Jesus, actually do!  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/6/2006 11:31:18 PM | Jesus has no equal??
You should study anthropology. get the historical facts on what existed on north and south america before you make such an ignorant statement.
The above spoken by a man who spends many days on the mountain Fasting for the Truth.
99.9% of you will never know of the truth or believe anyone who speaks it.
All my relations. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 4:34:54 AM | It's getting harder and harder in today’s world to define whom is a Christian! Now a days everybody is a Christian... So please don't call me by that name. Don't get me wrong either, I Love J.C. but even He would agree there are a lot of backwards Christians out there. In fact... the book of revelations chapter 3 describes this situation we have here. It describes the different crowns [people) or churches] as being only a remnant (a few) from each church that found there names in the book of life. In other words only a few of the so-called Christians will actual make their way into heaven. So we most likely have a greater chance of seeing heaven if we call our selves JESUS-lovers and we avoid today’s religious movements just as Jesus did when he was here.
I should also point out it was the religious people of Jesus day who put him on the cross. An example we should not ignore as it describes in a nutshell the problems we face today with our modern religions. There is no difference today with organized religion… only they do it in his name. Was it not written that many will be slaughtered in his name? I love Jesus and I believe fully in his teachings but I wish not to be associated with today’s modern religious fanatics otherwise known as modern Pharisees. Nothing new under the sun… just a different twist… we are still crucifying Him in how we treat the least of the Kingdom (The homeless, hungry, naked and imprisoned).
Yet we should not withdraw all together as Jesus did spend a little time preaching in the Synagogue (church), but he was crucified for teaching the gentiles and for holding outdoor meetings away from the synagogue. He was a rebel for the most part sent not to bring peace but to separate sheep from goat or the real follower from the fraudulent religious so-called-Christians.
I expect I will get many responses to this post but beware of your own religiousness for we all have no time for hypocrites. The truth is the truth... don't fight it! To be a Christian holds no weight today… it's just a title that most don’t even understand. I seek the real deal not the counterfeit and unless you understand Christ’s heart and live a repented life your more lost then before you became a sheep for Christ.
Yes in his name we are cleansed of our sins and iniquities but to be Christ like is easier then most would have you know. Just except your in need and invite Jesus teachings to become your new way of life and most of all repent from your old life. However you do not need to belong to a church where you ask the leaders to pray for you as you can pray right now… for your self and God will hear you just fine.
Now, having said that, I have to point out... It’s a personal relationship that evolves change and a good mentor is the safest way to go. Look for leadership that has fruits of love, peace and joy, but don’t loose sight of how you have your own personal journey to work out. In time, in Jesus name and with the help of the Holy Spirit you can and will commune directly with our Father/Creator. He cares not for the title you call yourself… it’s all about being sincere. Just fined, a private place and ask Him, in Jesus name to meet you where you are. You will get results without having to call your self a Christian or step foot in a church. It’s not a title but a relationship opportunity that Jesus provided us so we can know the one who made us and who loves us all… I call Him my Father Creator since that is what He is to me and yes He sent His son to die so I would know the difference between right and wrong and the sheep’s from the goats. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 5:58:38 AM |
Yet we should not withdraw all together as Jesus did spend a little time preaching in the Synagogue (church), but he was crucified for teaching the gentiles and for holding outdoor meetings away from the synagogue. He was a rebel for the most part sent not to bring peace but to separate sheep from goat or the real follower from the fraudulent religious so-called-Christians.
Christ died for our sins so we can accept Him and go to Heaven. He wouldn't have even been here if He didn't have to do that.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yes in his name we are cleansed of our sins and iniquities but to be Christ like is easier then most would have you know. Just except your in need and invite Jesus teachings to become your new way of life and most of all repent from your old life.
OK sorry to nit-pick but I have a couple things to say about this. But first I want to see verses on where you get what you say.
However you do not need to belong to a church where you ask the leaders to pray for you as you can pray right now… for your self and God will hear you just fine.
God tells us we should go to church to fellowship together. We should. It makes us stronger as a body. A body of Christ.
Just fined, a private place and ask Him, in Jesus name to meet you where you are. You will get results without having to call your self a Christian or step foot in a church.
That isn't always the case either. Sometimes God tests us so we can strengthen our faith and weaknesses. But you could be right on that. I do know for sure is that if your heart is seeking, God will intervene. He always does. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 9:36:36 AM | I agree. Four years ago I accepted Jesus Christ. The change in me was drastic and powerful. I thought Id gone nuts...a new conviction came in and wiped out all of my old ideas. Suddernly the world was all backwards and I wondered why more people didnt believe as I did. I was given new energy and life.
Jesus once said that If you know him and walk away, it would be better if you had never known him at all. If you are born again, you truly are, and you will never forget...I went back to my old ways....drinking and various other bullshit. Presently I am about to enter a rehab center...I feel I have lost my mind...that is what conviction will do...if one tries to ignore a truth that is obvious, there are penalties. I used to be a highly paid travelling musician, playing classical guitar. The money always flowed, and I met important people I suppose.
I drove a brand new Honda CRV and I thought I had arrived. Presently I just sold my sound equipment to pay my child support and I havent been sober since August. I am not bitter or self-pitying...God has allowed me to lose all that I clung to...all those pride issues...my identity is smashed. I am grateful that Jesus Christ gave me a conviction so strong that to ignore it would be devestating...and it is. He is very real and He loves all of us. Would you let your child go astray...never...and I thank Him for thinking enough of me, in this great big world where there are bigger problems than mine. Ask Him to show you...people laugh at the idea of salvation...my own family tells me Im just a sandal wearing Jesus loving SOB...dont listen to those people...I assure you the truth is real and powerful...and if you allow the truth
it will change you...for better or worse. Born again is a real thing...you cant go back on it...wish me luck and God blerss you! | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:07:07 AM | First off I never trust anybody who starts out with a fiction.
OK sorry to nit-pick
Your not sorry...
Scriptures I have for everything I have writen.
You call your self a Christian but your missing some fundamental structure and understanding… Not to be a shamed since most so-called-Christians do! Thanks for helping me prove my point, which is that saying you’re a Christian means nothing.
God tells us we should go to church to fellowship together. We should. It makes us stronger as a body. A body of Christ. Let’s start with John 2:19-21
After making a mess in the temple in an act of righteous angry Jesus tells us here what he is going to do with the temple. He says “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up”. When we read on we discover that what Jesus was talking about is how our bodies are now the most important temples. The Greek word “naos’ pronounced nah-os for temple or shrine is the word used to describe our bodies… our “new” temple.
A profound example of this is found in 1 Corinthians 3: 16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the spirit of God dwelleth in you?
So if Jesus got upset with the moneychangers and told everybody to tear down the temple why does it surprise any of you to hear me talk down our modern version of a temple? Then one has to think if Jesus rebuilt the temple in me why do I need to go to your community-based temple to have fellowship with God and my friends. If he dwells in you… shouldn’t we be able to do that anywhere with anyone. I relies it is important to meet with friends and worship the one who made us. However isn’t it better to do so from the moment your eyes open to when you close them at night 24-7, 365 days a year or do you have to wait for Sunday. After all God dwells with us thanks to the price Jesus paid.
Jesus didn’t have much use for the fancy temples with their hidden agenda’s like paying fancy bills. So your wrong there is more scriptural support that concludes the fact we can seek God anywhere, and believe it or not… actually find him. I like to meet with my brothers and sisters in the second most important temple THE HOME of a friend or have my friends over to my temple (HOME). The Greek word for your temple at home is oikos pronounced oy-kos. The hieron pronounced hee-er-yooce is the greek word used to discribe the comunity temple. It is important but much more exciting when we put the body and home in it's more important perspective (The 24-7 temples).
To have to belong to a great big church for strength is a lie somebody told you and it’s not scriptural. I’m not saying we shouldn’t get together I’m, just not interested in anything that doesn’t represent the crown of Phil. (REV 3:7) Then there is the very real point that if you become dependent on others or your pastor you will never learn to walk on your own two feet. Strength in numbers can also mean weakness if you ever have to stand on your own. I never said we should not meet with those who we love but I question the need to go to church when God dwells first in our bodies and second in our homes. In my exspereince I have better fellowship in my home then I can else where but that is me and my perspective.
We have to watch out and warn each other of the wolves and goats that could cause us to stumble and loose are crowns. Beware of false teachings and teachers. To be a priest or pastor you just have to go to school and study and you’re promoted to a leadership position without the approval of God. Man is electing men to represent God and we have no idea what we are doing. The mess the so-called church is in represents the truth in my point. The churches in north america are not growing all that much in general with the exception of the few good ones out there. I'm sure if your reading this you must go to a good one. If not I recomend you seek the most Christ like person you know for direction and answers to questions. You can post them here but one-on-one is better.
Remember your walk is a personal spiritual journey that doesn’t evolve a social club. What would you do if you lived in the middle of know where? There is strength in numbers but it’s nothing like the strength you get as a leader on your own making your own way with God. I hope for your sake that your community temple is that of the church of Philadelphia or that it becomes one because the other crowns are rare and will only go to a remnant of saints found within there walls. Rev. 3:7
Sometimes God tests us so we can strengthen our faith and weaknesses. But you could be right on that. I do know for sure is that if your heart is seeking, God will intervene. He always does.
Here is the truth in your own words... sweetie.
Finally did Jesus come to bring peace?
Mathew 10:34 Jesus himself speaking...
34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 "For I am come to set a man variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 37 He that loveth father or mother more then me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Peace will come at the end of this time when we all shall be judged my Jesus for how we lived our lives and until then he will divide the sheep from the goats so-to-speak. We should all study the judgment seat of Christ found in Mathew. In truth it is easy to be Christ like but only God knows the heart and there are many carnal Christians. Many Christians are fouling themselves thinking that all they have to do is go to church once a week and tithe. So many do so in vain for it’s not by works alone that we will enter heaven.
When studying Mathew and the judgment set of Christ you will see Jesus describing people you know that you think are saved. They will look him in the eye and say When didn't I feed you or cloth you and when did you every visit me.
Jesus will say "I know you not!!!" and the false profits and preachers will go to hell even though they appeared to do great works of God. It's not by works that we will enter the kingdom but by our relationship we do have or don’t have with GOD. PERIOD!!! | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:13:40 AM | Oh my God, dude relax  I wanted to know what you were saying for my own benefit. It could come in handy one day! Just relax lol. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:01:46 AM | Something that many historians have pointed out is that, before Christianity, the entire ancient world lived in a kind of religious harmony. No one persecuted anyone else for religion.
Christianity was from its very beginnings, it seems, a religion of great quarrels and wars, and it wooed the powers of temporal authorities, and made them part of itself in the hope of resolving through sheer force its many arguments."
Anne Rice
This is pure nonsense. Christians were persecuted throughout the first three centuries after the death of Jesus. The first 18 popes all died violently and many thousands of Christians were martyred for their faith and fed to lions for the amusement of Roman citizens. It was not until the Roman emperor Constantine had a vision of a flaming cross on the eve of a successful battle and therefore decided to make Christianity the official religion of Rome that these persecutions finally ended. Why would anyone expect to get legitimate history or accurate information about Christianity from Anne Rice, a woman who has made a career out of glamorizing vampires????? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:22:37 AM |
It was when Constantine converted to Christianity and gradually declared it to be the only legal religion in the Roman Empire that documentation of religious persecution begins. This is also supported by the Gospels of Thomas and Barnabas
Constantine's conversion to Christianity began in AD 312, three hundred years after Jesus walked the earth. How is it possible that a book purportedly written by a disciple of Jesus who lived at the same time as He did could support "documentation of religious persecution" that began several hundred years after His death? More "history" from vampire-lover Anne Rice? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 1:01:13 PM | Thanks Art. Good points again. In addition to that, does the quote refer to only the time of the Roman Empire? The Roman EMPIRE. Romans conquoring the world, no? How else did they come to have such an empire but by use of war? And of course once you have one government in control of a huge area you're not going to have as many religious battles. True, they did give some concessions to the Jews. But the Jews still felt persecuted and prayed for Messiah all the more under Roman rule. Communism accomplished something similar in ending religious struggle by dictating what people were supposed to believe and how they should worship.
And my reference was really about all of the time history prior to Christ walking the earth, not just the rule of Rome.
Bottom line, if it's a choice between freedom and peace I'll take freedom, thanks. But if everyone could choose to be respectful, both could be accomplished. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 2:40:43 PM | | Facts are facts folks....check your encyclopedias...Constantine integrated pagan customs and holidays(still celebrated today) when he 'ordered' that Christianity become the new state religion...some say it was a political move to unite his far flung empire...perhaps they are influenced by the 'fact' that Constantine himself did not officially become a Christian until shortly before his death.......p.s. don't shoot the messenger....especially before 'researching' the message . My smiley's aren't working....if they were there would be a lot of those little guys with their hands lifted up displaying the PEACE sign. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 3:12:19 PM | Inevitably in every discussion of religion that goes on in these forums or probably anywhere else in the world, someone who wants to bash a particular religion or religion in general is bound to go on about various atrocities and persecutions that religion is presumably to be held accountable for.
Since the beginning of time there have been persecutions of various people for various reasons. People who professed to be Christians have persecuted Jews, people who claimed to be "the children of Abraham", ie, Jews, have persecuted Christians, people who identified themselves as atheists have persecuted Christians and vice versa. It is unlikely that this type of thing will ever end unless the promised Paradise on Earth envisioned by Christians and various "dreamers" of Utopia at last becomes a reality.
Usually the "official line" justifying such persecutions is only a smokescreen for the real reasons behind them which generally have little to do with any genuinely religious aspirations and much to do with considerably less admirable qualities of human nature such as greed, personal and "national" ambition, or plain unreasoning hatred, prejudice and jealousy.
We all see this on a smaller scale in our personal lives. Haven't we all been attacked by someone on some pretext while we know all too well that the real reason they are attacking us is because of a grudge they hold against us due to some real or imagined slight to them in the past? or perhaps they want your job so they slander you to your employer? One could think of numerous examples of this all too common human behaviour pattern.
It's been suggested that one of the reasons that Hitler persecuted Jews was due to some bad experiences with certain Jews in his youth. Whether this is true or not, who can say? It does not seem unreasonable to guess nevertheless that such experiences made him much more receptive to theories of racial superiority that were popular in his time and that he skillfully exploited the prejudices of those around him for his own vainglorious reasons. No doubt he even persuaded himself -- as such people often do -- that his conduct was justified. An interesting point made by C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity": "At first the Nazis were cruel to the Jews because they hated them. Afterwards, they hated them because they had been cruel to them."
History shows that various politicians have made use of "Jew-baiting" for political reasons. There is little doubt that certain politicians in the deep south of the U.S.A. have in the past capitalized on anti-Negro sentiments to further their own political agendas in much the same way that certain politicians make use of rhetoric about "law and order" to get elected. Some are sincere in these beliefs, others are not nearly as passionate about these principles as they seem to be and are merely telling their potential voters what they want to hear.
It always amazes me that people jump at the chance to slander a religious teaching on the basis of persons or groups who conduct themselves in direct contradiction to that teaching. Would they condemn the principles on which the Boy Scouts of America are based or "Boy Scoutism" in general because some boy scout leaders have been found guilty of child molestation? Of course they wouldn't. When it comes to religion though, all reason seems to go out the window for many people. Some so called Christians act badly therefore Christianity is bad. No matter that such people are hardly acting according to the teachings of Jesus upon which true Christianity is based; why let the truth get in the way of a good argument? That's exactly how many of these people think -- or claim to think at least.
What is the real reason behind such unreasonable denunciations of religion? One can only guess. Many are merely parroting what they have heard a million times before -- but have never stopped to examine in any depth themselves -- on the hope that repeating this tired cliche of an argument will make them appear intelligent to those who think similarly. Others are afraid that if they ever stopped to consider the truth of Christianity (or of any religion worthy of the name) and became persuaded of its truth, this would require them to make changes in their lives that they do not want to make. In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart: "99, I told you not to tell me that!" Whether it's true or not, they just don't want to hear it. They don't even want to think about it. Hence, the constant refrain, another tired cliche, heard from such people: "Don't ram your religion down my throat!" In many cases, all you have to do is casually mention Jesus, God or the Bible to be accused of ramming something down someone's throat.
The truth is that to be a real Christian, ie, to act in a Christlike manner and to live up to the standards and principles that he laid down for His followers, is in many ways an infinitely difficult task -- especially in an age in which religious teachings of every sort have been so relentlessly discredited. To be a real Christian is to struggle constantly against the current "wisdom of the age" and to be considered a fool by many and mocked accordingly. Still, in many ways, things are no different than they were when Jesus walked the earth. Many turned away from Him then because of his "hard sayings". He advised His own followers to "count the cost" of discipleship, to "take up their crosses" and to be prepared to endure persecutions and various tribulations for His sake. He expected them not to be merely "nice people" but "saints". Little wonder then that in so many cases his words fall on deaf ears and "stony ground". Little wonder also that we -- the human race -- crucified Him then and are still crucifying Him today! | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 3:43:25 PM | | Well said artandsoul...although I have this nagging nitpicky feeling that I should get out my magnifying glass and find something I disagree with....oh well...not in the mod right now. In reference to the quote from C.S. LEWIS. and the book.'.MERE CHRISTIANITY'...((compiled from)) radio talks he gave during world war 2, in Britian, were second in popularity to those given by Winston Churchill.......in my humble opinion...those two men were utilized by God to strenthen the Brits..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.anyone wanting a breath of fresh air to inhale while pondering...WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN....might want to google Lewis and MERE CHRISTIANITY...or check the library...probably won't have much luck at the library since the Narnia movie has created curiosity about Lewis. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 6:10:03 PM | artandsoul
For all your long winded proclomations you make some good points but... what you fail to do is listen with your heart; a sieve cannot hold water, simply because it's a sieve. Likewise a head cannot hold knowlege that is full of holes; knowledge with holes is a mere honeycomb in the mind, there is not enough strength to bind it. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:38:10 PM | point taken. A Christian does not need to defend his or her self. Ive had family memebers
come at me with bold arguments as to why I was full of s**t. Ive been laughed and told to see a good therapist...by my own blood. A Christian is what a Christian does....my pastor coined it one day...Sunlight needs no noisy advertising, it merely needs transparent glass.
Lets get along and focus on our similarities, not our doctrinal differences. Jesus wants ONE
church, not a million segregations. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/7/2006 9:42:37 PM | | your conviction is deep and you deserve alot of respect for that. I lost a girlfriend onced because I would not do the premarital sex thing. Ive had family laugh at me for that...but when Jesus speaks, He speaks...and He doesnt talk any quieter than He did when He walked the earth! | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 8:20:28 AM | Its someone whose hoping very very hard that there's more to life than just existence on this mudball. And that there must be some purpose to it all.
It makes life worth living to believe in something beyond ourselves. I understand that.I envy that blind faith.
Well until someone comes back from the Afterlife and tells us "what's up" then I'll just concentrate on the here and now. I'd hate to waste my short lifespan worrying about something that may or may not happen after I die.
Religious rules were created my human religious leaders that simply felt uncomfortable with certain things and made a rule about not doing it (as though talking to his kids).
If we weren't meant to do certain things, then we wouldn't have the ability to do them.
If there were "wrong ways" to worship, then we'd have heard about it by now. Buddhists or Christians , or whatever would have been told "Look you guys got it all wrong, lets start over here..." But that hasn't happened. Just enjoy life. Spend time with your kids and spouses and enjoy what time you have.
We're just a member of the animal kingdon, unfortunatly one that overthinks things too much, like religion. I'd rather stick to less complicated worries like which flavor of coffee creamer should I use today?  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:28:17 PM | We're just a member of the animal kingdon, unfortunatly one that overthinks things too much, like religion. I'd rather stick to less complicated worries like which flavor of coffee creamer should I use today?
So, what are you doing here? Why don't you go and address yourself to the important task of choosing your coffee creamer instead of wasting the time of people who do want to discuss things that are a little more substantial?  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:30:54 PM | | I would be worrying about what they make that coffee creamer with... | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:59:38 PM | | I like coffee and cream and a good discussion to laugh over. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 6:01:33 PM | Hey I'm having a blast. Aren't you?
I've never seen so much brainwashing before.
Its classic. Better than tv.  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 6:25:53 PM |
Hey I'm having a blast. Aren't you?
I've never seen so much brainwashing before.
Its classic. Better than tv.
Does this kind of comment add anything to the discussion? I'm not sure whether or not a true Christian would restrain himself from pointing out the childish banality of it and merely refer the author to the forum rules about off topic posting. Why not try addressing the question of this thread in a responsible manner if you're capable of it? If you really have nothing to contribute other than sarcastic dismissals of the question itself, why not grow up and find a thread where you can make a real contribution? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:13:08 PM | He did address the question. Now he's addressing your attack on him it looks like. He could probly report you for mudslinging which had nothing whatsoever to do with the thread, either. So why don't you both knock it off before it gets stupid and someone gets deleted and has to go to the bother of creating a new profile and just coming back and picking up where they left off?
In other words, you aren't accomplishing anything, so just knock it off, guys.
And so that I"M answering the thread. Apparently a Christian is a guy that can't take criticism from people that don't share his beliefs. There thats my piece on it. | |
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