| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:14:32 AM | "you should try using discernment with the aid of the Holy Spirit... but that may only come between cigarette brakes... if it comes at all. Oh and don't you know that smoking affects your singing ability???"
"have to stop to smoke a cigarette every five minutes."
"a bride without spot and that includes cigarette stains."
"I don't know your situation with the smoking"
^^^ All from one post... obsess much?
As for me, you'll be happy to know that I don't drink, smoke, or swear. Oh, shit! Well, actually I do drink on occasion...
I will not condem you but I will stand up to you and point out your errors (sin). I can't love your sin or uneducated statements. I think God has his hand on you and that you could take off with the Lord but you may need another ounce of humility.
A mirror might come in handy now... | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:21:29 AM | Yes… thank you "a strange fiction" for your GREAT point! It supports what I've been saying here all along and is a very good topic for this thread.
Why does a so-called Christian smoke... because of stress... or to look kool?
Well I don't know where you all come from or what kind of point "river loon" is making but smoking is "out" here in Ontario, Canada and no longer fashionable. You can be fined for smoking in public places and restaurants are being fined for not having the right ventilation for people that smoke. You can even be charged with child abuse if you smoke around your kids. The reason for this is that it cost us all, a-lot of money for the heath issues smoking causes. To give smokes to minors is a serious offence. What example is a so-called-Christian making to those around him if he justifies harming himself and others by smoking?
Art most likely will not justify his smoking. I will make an assumption that he wants to quit and just needs to find his reason why. I’d say it should be so that God can bless his music, which is also directly impacted… in a negative way by his smoking. What a shame! It's simple… the cat is out of the bang concerning smoking and we all know it harms not only the person that smokes but also the people breathing in the second hand smoke. It most defiantly affects a Christian’s walk and his Armour.
The Armour is an interesting point concerning Christians who smoke! It’s an issue that affects our Armour for sure since it affects our overall heath. The lack of respect for ones temple prevents a gracefully abundant walk, or relationship with God. It’s simple you cannot serve two masters and an addiction controls the one that gives it life. So it’s not the smokes or the wine or the beer it’s our addiction to them.
I drink on occasion just like Jesus did but I’m not addicted to anything… I don’t even have a sweet tooth, yet I still enjoy dissert. It’s in moderation and balance and I’m not addicted. When I dealt with my addictions in my life I suddenly was encouraged by the increased spiritual presences I felt in my life. The Armour was then more real to me.
Christian dressed in the Armour should not be reporting that there under attack... Get your sword and use it! It is God's will that we not be addicted to anything that would come before him. Harmful addictions like smoking are the equivalent to spitting in the eyes of GOD who designed us without the need for drugs etc. With all the proclamation of a real Christian being obedient I’m sure Art will be quitting soon. I think there is some good advice here in the health section and I will have to post some tips there on how I quit smoking many moons ago. You don't have to quit smoking to receive Jesus and be saved but you do have to repent from sin in order to grow into a health more abundant relationship with our Father Creator. If you can’t repent from sin your name could be blotted out from the book or list of REAL Saints. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:25:02 AM | ^^^^^
Fly by night guy,
I'm responding to a post directed my way and it's my temperament to do so with detail... If you don't enjoy the details then why waste your time reading them. If your going to try and find fault then be ready with scriptures to back it up. Do you have anything constructive to point out concerning the thread and what defines a true Christian that doesn't involve pulling words and lines out of context. Something of substance maybe!
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:36:39 AM | Your context precedes my post for all to see. I didn't feel the need to repost your entire post following... your entire post.
You didn't acknowledge my substantive post (#99), just my "unsubstantive" one.
Cheers!  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:41:07 AM | "I agree that so-called-Christian’s get mocked!! For example so-called-Christian’s who are hypocritical in nature like the ones who think there walking with the Lord but have to stop to smoke a cigarette every five minutes. Talk about grieving the Holy Spirit... Addiction is spiritual idolatry and those who do that deserve to be mocked."
I don't believe anybody deserves to be mocked, I'm not sue if that was a quote you made from another poster or Tall and Dark that made the above statement. However, it is very un-christlike.
The forums are for addressing topics, not the personality of posters, I think here Tall and Dark that you have crossed that line in some of your posts.
Having read the whole topic here, I find that ArtandSoul makes some very valid points on the christian faith and the christian walk. I did not realize that Art was a smoker, however, it has not "clouded" his message at all. And to claim that a christian who smokes is a bad christian is way off. All christians fail, pick themselves up and continue. Some cheap shots have been fired here, to which I can't agree with..
I think mocking other christians and non christians would be grievous to the Holy Spirit..
Harry. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:42:09 AM | ^^^^^
I guess we are all blind then!
Oh wait you mean where should have read the whole thread to find 99 to know what it is your actually trying to say. You quoted me more then you made any comment about what I said. Nice try… your lack of substance must be embarrassing. Honestly come out with it… post 99 was way back there. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 11:50:52 AM | Tall, what are you referencing "all blind then" and was is your point about msg 99...
What have I to embarrassed about?? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 12:04:29 PM | I have friends who smoke and they all take it outside... sorry but i can't agree on that one since i have strong convictions about my health both physical and spiritual.
Addiction is spiritual idolatry and those who do that deserve to be mocked."
I don't believe anybody deserves to be mocked, I'm not sue if that was a quote you made from another poster or Tall and Dark that made the above statement. However, it is very un-christlike.
I'm “sure” unlike you… that if your are a so-called-Christian, and judgment day comes you will disserve to go to hell. God despises as I do hypocrites with a passion as they mislead the world in Jesus name. If your a fraud at anything and you get mocked for being so… it's just… and a product of weeping what you sowed... don’t' you think?
Havng said that I would like to point out that anybody can simply avoid the "pitfalls" of smoking by getting help and quiting... If you smoke you owe it to your self!
I have in fact stayed on the topic of what is a Christian and it does so happen that we have frauds among us everywhere and that we need to address that.
And to claim that a christian who smokes is a bad christian is way off.
We are all entitled to our opinions but I will go by way of God’s word which states clearly that you can not enter heaven by serving two masters. Addiction is clearly an idol defined in the old testament when moose's observed the Jewish people addicted to strong wine. There is nothing wrong with drinking wine it was there addiction to drinking to the point of drunkenness that was sinful. In the case of smoking there is no exceptable level of consumption... its bad for your health and very addictive and can negatively impact the health of those around the smoker… who don't smoke.
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 12:04:50 PM | Does someone who can't stop eating Timbits deserve to be mocked? Many Christians are obese. One can abuse their body with food causing heart desease,diabetes and number of other obesity related illnesses causing premature death. Is everything that POTENTIALLY causes premature death a sin or "spiritual idolatry"? Smoking will condemn you to Hell no more than potatoe chips and pie. It's the same...IMHO. Why can't we as Christians allow each other to be human and have frailties? I'm in! | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 12:27:31 PM | To bring your comments in context with the ongoing debat of the last week. Some Christains where commplaining about how hard it is to be a Chrstian and my point is simple if your sinnful actions cause somebody to mock you then stop sinning.
To whom is given much is exspected much... We are covered by Grace but it is not a license to start sinning... not every drunk or Chirstian that sins will end up in heaven but YES some so-called-Christians (hipocretes) will loose there crowns for such things as idol worship which is also a term used in scriptures to difine addiction.
Why can't we as Christians allow each other to be human and have frailties? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 12:44:26 PM | vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
revised version... too many typos... sorry
Why can't we as Christians allow each other to be human and have frailties?
This is a GREAT Question... for all to consider! I will not answer it since it's better you find out on your own! Read Rev. Chapter 3 to understand the crowns and why we have to address for the kingdoms sake the fraudulent so-called-Christians. There will only be a remnant of saints welcomed into heaven... Are you really in... Are you sure... I hope so!
It’s not right that we rant or banter fruitlessly but we should always defend the gospel with a passion since it should outweigh any other subject. Is there a more important subject then salvation and yet we are all guilty including me of not taking it serious enough.
I’ll try to bring your comments into context with this debate of the last week! Some Christians where complaining about how hard it is to be a Christian and my point is simple… if your sinful actions cause somebody to mock you… then stop sinning. It’s also becomes a bit of a self full filling prophecy if we think we’re always baring a cross or going through refiners fires. Are attitude is our altitude in live and with our Father Creator.
To whom is given much is expected much... We are covered by Grace but it is not a license to start sinning... not every drunk, drug addict or Christian that sins will fail to reach heaven but YES some so-called-Christians (hypocrites) will loose there crowns for such things as idol worship or addiction since it is considered in scriptures as a form of spiritual idolatry. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 12:53:47 PM | "God despises as I do hypocrites with a passion "
Have you not now become the judge instead of God?? Who are you to judge the servant of another as Paul said in one of his letters. And as Jesus himself said, "judge not lest you be judged"...
Calling another christian a hypocrite is a cheap shot, do you know the heart of that person??
Is "despising" one of the fruits of the spirit?? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 1:12:43 PM |
I guess we are all blind then!
"What you mean 'we' white man?"
your lack of substance must be embarrassing.
I'm embarrassed for you, because your posts lack perspective and insight.
post 99 was way back there.
Does substance depend upon recency? I mean, the Bible was written "way back there", too.
If your going to try and find fault then be ready with scriptures to back it up.
I don't like using scriptures to find fault. It's not really my thing. Not that it's hard to do, though:
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3
Maybe we all can eventually pit scripture against scripture, and make a farce of Christian beliefs.
if your sinful actions cause somebody to mock you… then stop sinning.
I see this is your example of "substance." I'm sure you would agree that one should stop sinning even if mockery isn't one of the consequences. Either way, this statement is irrelevant to the topic at hand because no one was claiming that sin was why faithful Christians get mocked. But maybe it was too far "back there" for you... | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 1:16:59 PM | Wooeee, things are heating up in here! Some great points made.
if your sinful actions cause somebody to mock you… then stop sinning Amen. It is one thing to be mocked because of your faith in Christ, and quite another to be mocked for poor behaviour. We (Christians) are to set an example for the world. Sure we will fail at times because we're still only human. But when an unbeliever points out our sin, and we know he/she's right, we should be taking actions to correct it, and work hard to set a much better example in the future.
And true, we are not to judge each other, but we are to reprove in love.
I am curious about something... TDR, your profile says you're non-religious. Yet you seem to include yourself in your discussions about Christians. Are you a Christian? (And I apologize if you've clarified this in a thread somewhere already and I've missed it). | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 1:42:25 PM | | yes, please stop "sinning" in public. Do it in private where no one can see you to mock you. ( i know i know... the "lord" can see you... I know... anyway) | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:37:41 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
I like this post flyguy,
Thanks for reintroducing me and I'm sorry I missed it.
Understandable, very understandable, sunshineface2. My question is what would inspire your enthusiasm to attend church, besides an attractive single member of the opposite sex, of course?
I've had trouble being a single guy in the church for the above-mentioned point! It's been hard to find a body of believes that are focused on the lord instead of themselves and their neighbor or brother. I find smaller churches better then bigger ones generally speaking but not in all cases. It was very troubling to say the least.... then I was lead by the spirit to REV chapter 3. It was so clear once i understood that most so-called-Christians don't have the key of David or even a crown. I know, that must shock a few of you but read it for your self. It’s clear and in this thread where we talk about what is a Christian we need to look close… at the qualifiers!!!
Thread history for anybody who might have missed it:
Arts words,
The truth is that to be a real Christian, ie, to act in a Christlike manner and to live up to the standards and principles that he laid down for His followers, is in many ways an infinitely difficult task -- especially in an age in which religious teachings of every sort have been so relentlessly discredited. To be a real Christian is to struggle constantly against the current "wisdom of the age" and to be considered a fool by many and mocked accordingly.
My response,
It’s never been difficult for those with the key of David (Rev. 3:7)
The Grace of the cross is sufficient
Flyguy,
TallDarkNRich, I appreciate what you're saying and your positivity, but art isn't exactly off-base, either. Jesus was mocked in probably the worst way one can be mocked: while he was dying.
What could be said in a disclaimer at the back of the book titled “Christianity 101” is that there are growing pains and a cross to bear when we are persecuted for the kingdom sake? However it makes no sense, neither is it accurate or proper to describe the real-Christian walk as an “infinitely difficult task” and to summarize or finish off by saying, “To be a real Christian is to struggle constantly.” This are not the words of a man that has been set free but that of a man seeking a closer walk with the Lord. Do you honestly struggle all the time with your faith and if so don’t you think you could do better. How is it that onlookers reading this post will be interested in this oppressed view of Christianity.
What I like about Art is that besides some twisted views he is honest and that needs recognition and it’s know wonder those of you that have crossed paths with him before would stand up for him but I also understand all the disclaimer points written herein about how we can not trust every thing Art says. This is true of us all… really, and I will be the first to admit I’ve been wrong before and it will happen again… even with my best effort to be on the ball!
My point, which a few missed, is that “not all followers of Christ” surfer the way Art describes. However we have to recognize that only a few would even understand what I’m talking about unless they either have the KEY of David or have studied it. If we all had the key of David then who wouldn't want to be a considered a CHRISTIAN. The key of David gives us the ability to open doors no man can open and the ability to close doors no man can close. Art’s commits reflect the majority of so-called-Christians described in Rev. chapter three… and he actual describes the life and walk of a hypocrite. Not that he is one since he is likely ready to move on with the lord. I can’t subscribe to his view here and for the benefit of you all, the OP and Art I have to stand on the real definition of a Christian found in the book of Revelations.
Arts last Confession:
I myself am often loath to call myself a Christian because I often fall so far short of the standards set by Jesus that I hate to bring disgrace upon His name in the eyes of "the world".
I disagree with Art last point and it more accurate to state “so many have brought disgrace upon His name in the eyes of our Father/Creator… “GOD".” It’s not a worldview, as the world couldn’t careless as they curse his name. When talking about salvation how does “the eyes of the world” even count. In this context who cares what the world thinks… it’s God’s opinion of us that will determine life or death.
I don’t like to call my self a Christian either but for the opposite reason Art states here. Who wants to be an every day so-called–Christian that is oppressed as Art describes his life herein and how difficult it is. It’s after all just a title that every body uses. I do however credit Jesus for my salvation but I want everybody to know I’m a Jesus Lover not one of those so-called Christians or modern day Pharisees who all use Jesus name. It’s the frauds that in Arts words “often fall so far short, of the standards… set by Jesus” If you have trouble meeting this standards I have to suggest you repent of what every it is that causes you to fall short. Seek good sound leadership. For example you may have trouble hearing God’s voice do to the controlling nature of addiction like smoking!!! You may loose your crown or not even have one to begin with. Not condemning anyone just stating the facts I discovered first hand in Gods word. If you disagree then lets look at what the bible says I would gladly look up the scriptures for any body that needs them. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:38:02 PM | bible/commentery in my opinion high standing. I don`t believe we don`t need a base. An eagle alwats has one mate sitting on the nest while the other soars.
http://online.recoveryversion.org/search.asp?all_q=grace&one_q=_&no_q=_&phr_q=_&ord_q=_&near_q=_&case=off&stem=off&cont=all&rb=40&re=66&ps=10&st=f&p=3 | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 3:00:03 PM | Harry guy,
I call a hypocrite a hypocrite if you want to act like one then the name fits... what's wrong with calling a spade a spade. Would you rather I lie and lead the Op who posted this thread down a garden path. Should Op not be informed of what a Christian Hypocrite is or isn't. The OP has asked us to define What is a Christian and unfortunately some of them our hypocrites and I am speaking generally so don't get your shorts in a knot. We are not to judge but we can discern in Spirit.
You should try it but first it requires that you know what your talking about... to do that you might want to read the post from the start... so you can come back here and present us with a educated opinion of the thread and the Op's question? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 3:19:56 PM | ""God despises as I do hypocrites with a passion " TallDark - these words seem to pop out of your posts quite frequently.
James 3:8 but no one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil filled with deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in God's likeness. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. It should not be like this, my brothers! A spring cannot pour both fresh and brackish water from the same opening, can it? My brothers, a fig tree cannot produce olives, nor a grapevine figs, can it? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water . Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good life that his works are done in humility born of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and rivalry in your hearts, stop boasting and lying against the truth. That kind of wisdom does not come from above. No, it is worldly, self-centered, and demonic. For wherever jealousy and rivalry exist, there is disorder and every kind of evil. However, the wisdom that comes from above is first of all pure, then peace-loving, gentle, willing to yield, full of compassion and good fruits, and without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy. And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:05:21 PM | My goodness... leave this place for just a little while and all hell breaks loose! I suppose I'd be here for three days trying to answer all your complaints about me, TallDarknRich. Talk about making assumptions! How would you know how much I smoke, for instance? I won't deny that I smoke more than is good for my health nor will I deny that this is a sin. Still, contrary to the rabid anti-smoking lobby that seem to consider smoking responsible for all the ills of man, there is no proof that smoking in moderation is necessarily harmful for everyone. Anyone who has a ninety year old grandfather who smokes every day can see that. God did make tobacco. My apologies for getting off topic here; I'll get back to the subject at hand.
As Flyguy pointed out, noone suggested that Christians get mocked for sinning. If you actually read the post before you started ranting about it, you'd see that, on the contrary, I said Christians are more likely to get mocked when they are NOT sinning.
As for me and my relationship with God, once again you make a lot of assumptions that are without foundation. Despite the fact that I've done the walk up the aisle at a Billy Graham rally, been baptized as an adult when I knew quite well what I was doing -- and therefore, in the minds of many, qualify to be considered a Christian and "saved" -- as I pointed out, I am loath to call myself that because I feel that I often fall far short of living according to the high standards that Jesus set for His followers. Why would I want to bring disgrace upon the name of Jesus by trumpeting myself to be one of His followers?
If it's "twisted" and "oppressive" theology to point out the difficulties involved in being a committed Christian in a world that with few exceptions is hostile to genuine Christianity -- as it always has been, if you recall, we did crucify the founder of Christianity -- then I must be a twisted theologian. But, according to that definition, Jesus must be too. Many here have already pointed out numerous scriptures and words of the Master Himself to that effect. It's hard to figure out where exactly you are coming from.
Since you point out in your profile that you "have money", maybe you should take Jesus' advice to the rich young ruler: give it all to the poor and follow Him. Then come back and tell us how easy it is. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:15:06 PM | I fail to see what the fascination is with whether or not Art smokes ? I noticed that there are around half a dozen posts on here about that. So what if Art smokes , I am sure he knows the dangers and risks, but I fail to see how it has ANY relevancy to this forum topic.
Could some people obsess over such things to try and discredit him ? I hope that I am wrong, but it is how it appears.
We are ALL sinners , Christians and non-Christian. Jesus died for ALL of us , not just some of us. The premise of Christianity is COMPASSION and FORGIVENESS, as Jesus demonstrated by his sacrifice.
Those of us without sin cast the first stone.
None of us are perfect.
And about the post that makes reference to GOD despising those who are hypocrits, I think that GOD despises the act of hypocracy and not the person who commits the hypocracy, much like a parent despises the destructive acts of their children, but still love their children even if they (the parents) condemn the sinful acts the children may commit.
God gave us free will, I think he did so , to help us to learn from the choices we make, and not to condemn us when we make a poor choice, because we all make poor choices in life, but part of learning from our poor choices is to live with the consequences of our actions. It doesn't mean that God despises us for sinning or using our free will poorly. That is just how we learn and grow spiritually.
For those of you who like verses, I find these are really good in defining WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN:
to accept others as they are (don’t discriminate), Romans 15:5-6 & 12:6; do not argue or strive over words, 2 Timothy 2:14-16; to be of one mind and show compassion 2 Corinthians 13:11; to live in peace, 1 Peter 3:8 and to share, Acts 4:32. We must seek (pursue) unity and peace (Ephesians 4:3).
“love your neighbor as you love yourselves, Leviticus 19:18.”
Having concern for one another (1 Corinthians
12:25-26) | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:19:43 PM | ''Since you point out in your profile that you "have money", maybe you should take Jesus' advice to the rich young ruler: give it all to the poor and follow Him. Then come back and tell us how easy it is."
Gee Art I missed that..good point. I did wonder on the profile name ending with Rich though.
TallDark, you keep mentioning Revelation. I just had a quick read through of Rev. There are seven churches mentioned there, all in some sort of distress. All had a message from the Commander In Chief. I did not see one mention of "hypocrite" or being "despised"....
PS on this thread Art really "smokes"...haha | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:20:18 PM | Welcome back A&S, thought you may have been banned for smoking  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:29:02 PM | Thanks to Harry and Mic for the support. It's nice to have friends!
River Loon, thanks for the laugh ("Welcome back A&S, thought you may have been banned for smoking") ... when the rabid anti smoking lobby figures out a way to claim that secondhand smoke can somehow pass through a computer screen and enter the lungs of others in these forums, I'm sure I will get banned here! 
For all of TDR's ranting though, I do concede one point to him. To deliberately indulge in excessive smoking is a sin. I am a sinner. I admit it. As a singer whose voice could be used in the service of God and man and whose voice isn't what it used to be, at least in part due to my smoking habits, perhaps I needed to hear it from somewhere other than my own guilty conscience.
Back on topic: I think a Christian is someone who, among other things, believes in a God of absolute justice and absolute mercy. Somehow, God must find a way to reconcile these two often contradictory qualities that I call the "Yin and Yang" of God. If God is just, He can't possibly just turn a blind eye to our sins. If God is merciful, He has to find a way to forgive them. Many feel that Jesus paid the price for our sins so that's all taken care of -- for Christians at least. In the case of others who don't accept that belief, people who think this way consider that God does deal with their sins rather harshly -- by sending them to Hell forever.
This is an important question that is very relevant when one seeks to define exactly what a "Christian" is. Many seem to think that a Christian is merely one who has been "saved" according to their definition of "saved" while others -- such as myself -- insist that a Christian is as a Christian does and that those who talk the talk must walk the walk. Of course, there are many degrees of "walking the walk" -- some are rank sinners while others may be far from perfect but are closer to actually following the teachings of Jesus. Before anyone gets upset, I'm not referring to anyone here in particular but to people in general -- some of the most sinful people of all seem to consider that they are nevertheless Christians and will be "saved" in spite of it all.
Without meaning to give offence to Christians out there who sincerely think otherwise, many of whom are undoubtedly fine examples of Christian charity and genuine spirituality, I have to say that I believe this is an incorrect interpretation of the scriptures. Unfortunately, it is also an interpretation that turns many away from the faith altogether. There is another discussion of this issue going on in the thread "the worst Christian heresy of all" that might interest those of you who are troubled by the question of how God can be both merciful and just and how He deals with those who may have fallen off the narrow path that leads to salvation. | |
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