| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:20:18 PM | Welcome back A&S, thought you may have been banned for smoking  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:29:02 PM | Thanks to Harry and Mic for the support. It's nice to have friends!
River Loon, thanks for the laugh ("Welcome back A&S, thought you may have been banned for smoking") ... when the rabid anti smoking lobby figures out a way to claim that secondhand smoke can somehow pass through a computer screen and enter the lungs of others in these forums, I'm sure I will get banned here! 
For all of TDR's ranting though, I do concede one point to him. To deliberately indulge in excessive smoking is a sin. I am a sinner. I admit it. As a singer whose voice could be used in the service of God and man and whose voice isn't what it used to be, at least in part due to my smoking habits, perhaps I needed to hear it from somewhere other than my own guilty conscience.
Back on topic: I think a Christian is someone who, among other things, believes in a God of absolute justice and absolute mercy. Somehow, God must find a way to reconcile these two often contradictory qualities that I call the "Yin and Yang" of God. If God is just, He can't possibly just turn a blind eye to our sins. If God is merciful, He has to find a way to forgive them. Many feel that Jesus paid the price for our sins so that's all taken care of -- for Christians at least. In the case of others who don't accept that belief, people who think this way consider that God does deal with their sins rather harshly -- by sending them to Hell forever.
This is an important question that is very relevant when one seeks to define exactly what a "Christian" is. Many seem to think that a Christian is merely one who has been "saved" according to their definition of "saved" while others -- such as myself -- insist that a Christian is as a Christian does and that those who talk the talk must walk the walk. Of course, there are many degrees of "walking the walk" -- some are rank sinners while others may be far from perfect but are closer to actually following the teachings of Jesus. Before anyone gets upset, I'm not referring to anyone here in particular but to people in general -- some of the most sinful people of all seem to consider that they are nevertheless Christians and will be "saved" in spite of it all.
Without meaning to give offence to Christians out there who sincerely think otherwise, many of whom are undoubtedly fine examples of Christian charity and genuine spirituality, I have to say that I believe this is an incorrect interpretation of the scriptures. Unfortunately, it is also an interpretation that turns many away from the faith altogether. There is another discussion of this issue going on in the thread "the worst Christian heresy of all" that might interest those of you who are troubled by the question of how God can be both merciful and just and how He deals with those who may have fallen off the narrow path that leads to salvation. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:40:20 PM | Paraphraised somewhat "its not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out"
There you are, I'm a self confessed ParaPharisee; | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:49:20 PM | Paraphraised somewhat "its not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out"
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hehehee | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 6:15:18 PM | | OK, so I am a sinner as well, I take the occasional puff ... so what? We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and therein lies the danger of judgement. What premise can a person be judged whether they are Christian or not, and who has the authority to judge? Can it be that it is totally between the person and Christ only? Christ states to forgive how many times? So will he not forgive us how many times? Once that number is reached are we out of chips? What if we sell everything and follow him? Is that plausible for everyone? When dissected there are too many variables and therefore too many "loopholes" that allow "evil" to confuse, vex and overcome. Whatever the "Christian" label signifies it cannot be complicated and thereby limiting to a select few. It is Gods plan that all should know the mystery of salvation. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 7:04:17 PM | If a christian was so concerned about sinning and polluting their bodies, what about the sin of evironmental pollution by driving automobiles? Sat in a traffic jam breathing in polluted air? I guess the amish have it right it with the horse and buggy, but what about methane pollution from the horse doo'vers??  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 7:12:01 PM | Paraphraised somewhat "its not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out"
There you are, I'm a self confessed ParaPharisee;
Thanks for the wit, Harry, a laugh is always appreciated. Still, in the case of smokers, I guess they'd get us anyway on that one on the basis of the secondhand smoke that comes out of us! Good point about automobile pollution, etc, too. I wonder if all Christians who blast smokers are driving "clean", non polluting vehicles? | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 8:53:48 PM | Wow, I don't know where to start. First, I consider myself a Christian. I know Christ died for my sins, that He was the Son of God and the Messiah, however you want to put it. But I am not an uber-Christian. I don't feel it is my right to go around and condemn ppl for their actions, such as drinking and smoking. Jesus didn't do that. He didn't go into the churches ansd sit with other priests and high ppl and mock the drunks and prostitutes and such. He went among the ppl and led them to the way, He showed them the light and let them make thier own choice. I know of so many freinds that I can't witness to because they all feel that Christianity condemens them and tells them what to do and to listen to mainstream media, they are right. Between Pat Robertson and Mark Dobson, we sound like a bunch of despots. That is not right. Calling someone a 'bad Christian' is wrong and usurps God's power and right to judge. After all, the power to judge is His and His alone. We can't know what is in our brothers heart, all we can do is read the outside and that is a weak thing to judge on.
Next. I quit smoking on Sept 19th of this year and it has been hard. To insult me by calling me an idolator because of my addiction, how dare you. It is an ADDICTION. A physical and psychological need that cannot be described to those who have never felt it. Everyday I have to remind myself that I haven't quit smoking, that I have two cigarettes left in my last pack, I just chose not to smoke them right now. (and if you have ever smoked a cigarette that is now almost 5 months old, you know that is a wise choice regardless) because if I don't, if I try to go without knowing I could smoke if I wanted to, I would probably be a wreck with fingernails bitten to the quick and bleeding. UNless you have had your head under a rock, (or other equally inaccessible areas) you must know that tobacco companies have been manipulating cigarettes to MAKE them more addictive. You act as if smokers wake up and say 'Gee, I haven't coughed up my daily dose of brownish-green, black-spot-laden phlegm today, gimme a light.' Whether you like it or not God loves me as I am. Just as much today as when I was a smoker, and a drug user, and a biker with slightly sociopathic tendencies. Never once in all the times I have lost myself in the Bible have I EVER come across God or Jesus saying 'Listen, go get cleaned up, shave, cut your hair, stop sinning and stuff, then come see me and we'll talk'. Like the song says..."Just As I Am"
One last thing, your statement that anyone can just get help and quit is naieve(?) to say the least. It is obvious to me that you have never smoked. Telling a smoker to just quit is like telling a manic-depressive to 'Just Cheer Up'. As big as the tobacco industry is, the quitting tobacco indusrty is just as large. Check out the local Wal-mart next time and count the patches, gums, lozengers, etc. designed to 'aid' someone to quit. | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 9:07:44 PM | Medstudent
^^Well said and good luck with kicking the habit. My Christian buddy struggles after having quit a year or two ago.
Ya quite right about Christ not sitting with the righteous and hurling insults at the sinners. I'm not sure we have not been "trolled" again..
Christ preached peace not an eye for an eye. The soldier who had faith in Jesus to heal his servant was commended for his faith..He did'nt turn around and say you'd better get a new career while you are at it... | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/13/2006 10:21:41 PM | As has been said a Christian is a follower of Jesus. Christ is not his last name. It's means the annointed one. Christians are annointed followers of Jesus. Only Jesus can tell you who are his. No one down here knows the heart of any man.  | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/14/2006 9:47:26 AM | Thanks harry, however, not sure how to take the statement>> "My Christian buddy struggles after having quit a year or two ago.<< I was hoping these craving would pass, but now you are telling me that they go on for years, thanks...appreciate that.lol.
This thread is running way longer than it should, because the question itself is unanswerable, similar to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Only God knows.
Christ said it himself and I am paraphrasing here (note proper spelling of paraphrased) 'Many will come to me saying 'Lord, Lord, but I know them not."
Basically He is saying that only He can set the 'standard' for who is and who is not a Christian, certainly not us mere mortals. That being said, what is the point of all this discussion? Just to rip on smokers and drinkers and human Christians? Is this really a discussion of theology, or just a chance for ppl to point fingrs and lay accusations and polish our 'holier than thou' robes.
Only God knows. We could all be wrong and that reminds me of a joke.
The Pope is sitting in his study wjhen the phone rings. It keeps ringing until The Holy father, tired of waiting for an alcolyte to do it, shuffles over and answers the phone. 'Hello' says the Pope. "hello" a voice answers, "this is God. I am callling you with good news and bad news and I wanted you to be the first to know." The Pope is all trembling and excited. "What is the good news?" he asks. "Well, in two weeks the world will be united in one religion."
"That is good news my Lord, what is the bad news?" "I am calling you from Salt Lake City." | |
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| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/14/2006 12:07:10 PM | The Pope is sitting in his study wjhen the phone rings. It keeps ringing until The Holy father, tired of waiting for an alcolyte to do it, shuffles over and answers the phone. 'Hello' says the Pope. "hello" a voice answers, "this is God. I am callling you with good news and bad news and I wanted you to be the first to know." The Pope is all trembling and excited. "What is the good news?" he asks. "Well, in two weeks the world will be united in one religion."
"That is good news my Lord, what is the bad news?" "I am calling you from Salt Lake City."
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Good one  | |
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netab
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 161 | |
| What is a Christian
Posted: 1/14/2006 5:28:18 PM | | I would have thought that the central message of christianity is treat everyone in the same manner in which you wish to treated. At the end of the day its a subjective call. | |
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