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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/20/2006 5:51:53 PM | Brunette,
I had to really go back and read to find what my comment about the dead deer was about.
I also understand that the Natives forms of hunting in some instances were not all sweetness and light. YET again....a few years back while walking with the dogs we came across the bodys of 10 Deer heaped one on top of the other with only the Hind quarters gone.
The waste of such a beautiful animal is a crime, and I am not talking in the legal sense.
We had been discussing Native American hunting techniques and that they sometimes drove whole herds to slaughter.
My comment pertained to the fact that at least they used everything and it was to last them for a years time.
I personally have no problem with people that hunt, as long as they use all the meat on the animal. I realize in this day and age we don't need to make impliments from the bones, or water bags from the bladders.
And BTW....the pile of deer was reported, I have no idea if they caught the poachers or not. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:32:42 PM | | I agree with what you said about witches as i am a 3d degree wiccan priest.I have been in the religion for about 10 yearsAnd i agree that people get a misconception about pagans since it was the christian missionaries that took our deity who is sometimes shown with deer antlers and made him out to be an evil symbol.Keep up with telling the true meaning of witches. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 228 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/22/2006 3:36:35 PM | ^^
I think that is why this is a great topic
Since everyone has a slightly different view of what/who a 'Witch' actually is/does
Therefore it is very difficult to explain a 'true meaning'
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/22/2006 5:03:38 PM | | I agree about the topic. The beauty of it is that it doesn't necessarily have to have a "true meaning." I rather think and enjoy the fact that we have so many different subjective distinctions as to what distinguishes a witch. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/23/2006 8:53:28 AM | Well, with everyone being open minded and having their own views/definitions, I am sharing a link that covers a lot of different pagan aspects/views.
It is a library of information (have yet to read everything in there) that seems to have more information added on a regular basis.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm
All I can suggest is that people look at the site and make their own decisions.
Blessed Be | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:26:52 PM | | looks to be an interesting site Brunette, ty | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/23/2006 8:44:23 PM | so much readin ...so late at night
great forum thou :) | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/23/2006 10:26:42 PM | | Well come on back when you have more time to read, it really is enlightening | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/24/2006 12:12:08 PM | I am supposing that a witch can protect herself from harmful people.
Question: Are their 'strengths' to one's greatness? | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:20:15 PM | --------"I am supposing that a witch can protect herself from harmful people.
Question: Are their 'strengths' to one's greatness? "--------
This implies that a witch is only a female. This is not always the case. While there exists certain groups of witches that are all female. There certainly exists many forms of it that are loaded with males and in some cases only males. As far as protecting themselves. Yes, this is one aspect of witchcraft to protect ones family, clients, self and or community from harm. It also can be used to attack, heal the sick, help people deal with death, as well as the same things all religions do. There is normally a culture that surrounds such practices reguardless of its origins. These cultures often include feast, parties, religious cermemonies/rites, music, dance, myth/gods. Just like christianity and other more modern mainstream religious practices. often along with this are levels of initiation not unlike the sacriments in the christian church. As one becomes more aware that all religions in the end have the same goal one will see that there is little difference between them in the end. Witchcraft does take things to another level though in some cases as far as taking matters into your own hands instead of just praying and hoping for change one who practices a form of witchcraft often pushes things along though the use of the power/knowledge they gain from their practice.
Not sure what you mean by "are their strengths to be one's greatness...." Please elaborate if you can. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/24/2006 2:22:32 PM | | sorry, meant are some more powerful and therefor able to nullify another? As in combat? | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 237 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/24/2006 6:54:16 PM | With 'most Witchcraft', and I stress most, there would never be a need for conflict between the 'Witches', as theirr basic beliefs are very similar, in most cases
..
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/24/2006 11:22:30 PM | There is a saying in palo if you want war there is war. War between certain groups of witches is VERY common. It is not permitted between members of the same house these conflicts are controled by the absolute control of the head of the house. He has the power to fine or punish those under him who he has taught and or is under his guidence. If a witch within the same house has a problem with a brother or sister under the same house as them that person can go to the godfather and make his dispute known. The godfather will enact a form of justice to stop a war from tearing the house apart. If the problem is from another group or other form of witchcraft if the dispute cannot be settled through diplomatic means it usually means balls to the wall war. This can be VERY ugly if not fatal. It is normally not the outright goal of such witches to do this but, sometimes can be inevitable. In these cases yes you are correct the strong will survive and just like in nature the weak will turn tail and run or suffer and or meet their end in one form or another. So the answer to your question is yes in some forms of witchcraft WAR is VERY real and dangerous.
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 12:18:17 AM | | SFL... I'm starting to study more about Paganism... but I seriously thought Witches were a large part.. Wiccan... am I very wrong?? Of course, I have never known any of the Black.. only the white (good)... I guess I need much more studying... | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 1:06:10 AM | Ok....let me get comfy....
Was it not PAGANISM that was FIRST????
Did the Christians not break away because men wanted to have their own beliefs from what they had learned?
When the "Christians" came to American.. were the Native Americans not doing just fine with their own religion which if you study it seems like Paganism more than anything. Did they not believe in the earth and all our creator had given us and was thankful for what nurished the earth and themselves? (and this is a bad thing?)
Do not all religions basically believe in a "higher" being???
In my HUMBLE opinion.. (this is why I'm studying these religions) I believe that most all religions "Christian, pagan, wiccan, catholic, jewish, methodist, unitarian" anyway most religions have a "story" and to me... it is actually the same story only with different characters in it. The Pagan goddess.... Christians god... Alli.... Mary...could actually be the SAME. And when they speak of angels... who is to say the christian angels are not the same as other's "forest spirits" or "faries" or other intities under the "higher being" who basically watch over us humans here on earth?
When christians pray for people to get better... or for something good to happen, is that so different from a witches spell to help someone get better... or for something good to happen? When a "christian" gets angry at someone and even in their mind wishes something bad to happen to them.... is that any different from a witches negative spell???
Do not most religions believe in the 10 commandments? What religion says it's alright to LIE, STEAL, GOSSIP, etc. etc.?????
That is why I do not really believe there are different gods/goddesses... I think it is all the same only we just have different stories to tell about what our beliefs are. I do not think God intended for there to be all these different religions, even all the different christian ones because all it does it pit each one against the other one. I believe that the best you can do is just that... you basically follow the 10 commandments to make yourself a better person, after that... heck just pick your favorite story and go with it!! LOL... no that was just in fun. I also believe we all sin.... but.. there is not a POINT SYSTEM on sin. Have you ever noticed that a person who says being GAY is the worst sin.. well.. duh.. they are not gay but, they gossip and lie about people. A sin is a sin is a sin... there is not point system on sin the last time I heard about it!!! So these people in glass houses should be very very careful.
I'm Scottish, Irish and Cherokee Indian... I grew up Methodist but have always "questioned" things since I was a child which was unheard of. Now when people ask what religion I am, I tell them "Debbism"... and what I just wrote explains that. My church is on the back of my horse riding through the woods.. or in my boat with my dogs slowing making my way down a secluded river. And when I'm doing that.. I'm thanking my "higher being" for all he/she has provided me with to make me happy and healthy. And that folks... is all I'm saying in this short version book of mine. This has nothing to do with fact, only my inner thoughts on it.
I guess what I'm trying to prove to myself is that | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 2:51:01 AM | Yes, folks, that's right. Feral's back! Woe to those who care. Or something. Dude, it's late, never mind..
I am supposing that a witch can protect herself from harmful people.
Question: Are their 'strengths' to one's greatness?
Yes, there are a great many different techniques and methods for personal protection, as well as protecting and sheltering one's friends, family, community, etc. Just depends on how much one is willing to invest, as to over how many one can spread their protection. As to the "strengths" thing, Kabiosile pretty much summed it up. Yes, there are "levels" to individual's talent, just like in anything. Cool part is that, just like in anything, study and practice can make up for a lack of talent or hone one that's already present.
This implies that a witch is only a female. This is not always the case.
I thought we'd already covered this...
I think Ash's use of the feminine term is more to the effect of identifying with herself, although I could easily be wrong. Ash?
With 'most Witchcraft', and I stress most, there would never be a need for conflict between the 'Witches'
There is a saying in palo if you want war there is war. War between certain groups of witches is VERY common.
I think this point is actually somewhat similar to Longte's mention of Native American hunting practices. Everybody we're talking about is human. Human nature, needs, desires, etc, all the stuff we do in social and political situations, the wars, conflicts, hate, misunderstandings, all of it, is felt just as much by Witches, of any tradition, as by anyone else. It's not a religious thing, or an ideological one, simply part of being human. So, you do occasionally have conflicts between witches, and sometimes magical "combat" comes into play. Kab's right, though; in addition to the wacky, outre stuff that can get tossed around, that kind of thing can get messy fast.
I'm starting to study more about Paganism... but I seriously thought Witches were a large part.. Wiccan... am I very wrong?? Of course, I have never known any of the Black.. only the white (good)... I guess I need much more studying...
Groovy to have you with us, Mesna. Looks like you might have missed some of the stuff earlier on the thread. Particularly about the connections between the different groups and traditions. Simple form, Paganism is generally recognised as anything not "orthodox" (Christian, Jewish, Muslim), but mostly tends to cover pantheistic earth religions with multiple gods and a recognition of male and female aspects of divinity (somebody smack me if I missed anything there). Witches don't necessarily need to subscribe to a given religion, although in the modern world there is a strong percentagewise correlation between the young religion of Wicca and modern Witchcraft in the Western world. Not trying to leave anybody else out, but in "common parlance" that's the sort of mental picture folks'll get if you toss out those words. As to white/black witchcraft, it's more a Western dichotomy, not truly applicable, since magic is inherently tied into the intent and those distinctions tend to be broad generalisations made by folks who don't quite know what's up. Again, I'm not trying to speak for everyone, so if anybody disagrees, correct me on these quick-and-dirty distinctions, and we can go from there.
Was it not PAGANISM that was FIRST????
Did the Christians not break away because men wanted to have their own beliefs from what they had learned?
Viewpoint gig there, hon. I wouldn't so much argue first, just first in a given area. It's entirely possible that monotheism is older than Sumeria, but that's going into a lot of archaeological/anthropological speculation without any clear evidence one way or another. As for Christianity trying to break away, it did. From Judaism, which was another monotheistic, patriarchal system of religious community. As for the thing about men wanting to do one thing or another, I don't know. More speculation in my opinion, I'm afraid.
Do not all religions basically believe in a "higher" being???
With a whole slough of qualifications on what constitutes "higher" to any given group, yes.
...could actually be the SAME. And when they speak of angels... who is to say the christian angels are not the same as other's "forest spirits" or "faries" or other intities under the "higher being" who basically watch over us humans here on earth?
Just to offer some more of my "viewpoint" claptrap, this sort of interpretation actually does work, to a degree. However, many of the entities referenced here, having been named and defined in distinct ways, also have distinct attributes that set them apart from each other. Interesting side note, I've read some cool stuff on fairies "tailoring" their appearances to the expectations of the viewer, as are some angels credited with doing. It may be possible that these are all some form of spiritual "messenger" that appear to witnesses as what they expect to see, although, for my part, I read a significantly different story out of the many legends and mythologies I've studied.
...is that so different from a witches spell to help someone... ...is that any different from a witches negative spell?
Yes, and no. Lots of different arguments both ways, but, while a Christian would most likely simply ask God for something, like Kab says, the Witch (or other magical practitioner) will "nudge" things along with his/her own power. I still liked the way an old priestess I knew called invocational spellwork "prayer with props."
What religion says it's alright to LIE, STEAL, GOSSIP, etc. etc.?????
Satanism, Nihilism, Diabolism,... 
BTW, I really like that church you've got. Groovy idea.  | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 4:15:05 AM | Looks like the guys pretty much answered the questions that were asked.
Ash? were you having a problem that you felt you needed protection from? There are certain spells also certain talismans
I know I was having problems with a supervisor that was lying about me, I picked up a specific stone, put it in my stone bag and carried it with me. The claim was that it would send negative energy back to the sender....sure enough, he got fired.
Or was yours just a general question?
I also agree with Feral, I think Ash's question was just in the feminine form due to the fact that she is female, that she ment no offense. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 6:59:05 AM | Feral...Most of my "ideas" are just that.. my own ideas that I am pondering so your input was well received. But you can see where all my questions lie. I have lots of question and I guess I have my own beliefs about what I have "heard"... I am not as versed as you folks are in these religions.. that is why I'm asking... thanks for the input...
Yes.. my church is pretty cool huh | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 7:40:15 AM | ----------"I also agree with Feral, I think Ash's question was just in the feminine form due to the fact that she is female, that she ment no offense. "---------
No offense taken just wanted to make sure she knew that witch is not gender specific. Go far enough in one direction you end up on the other side. We have experienced in the struggle that is to be human males oppressing females and all too often the solution for this tends to be females attempting to oppress males through extreme feminist type things. I would love to see us break free of this swinging pendulum (sp) effect. So, that we may find balance again as man and woman. My comment was not an accusation as much as it was just a reiteration that the word witch means many different things to different people. It is not just a name for euro-centric pagan beliefs or wicca or any other system. It tends to be these days for better or worse a general term and I think it serves well in this way to describe many different practices stemming from many different cultures. While I dont argue that there are systems who use this word for females only there are yet, others that use this term for both man and woman. So, no offense back at ya. :)
While I do agree with the statement made that all religions are basically trying to achieve the same goals. We must be careful even though there are many simularities between the various gods (both masculine and fem) That we not mix everything thing up into one package. Even when the gods are of the same element or aspect of the "universe" they can often have very different needs in how we work with them. Sometimes these energies are distinct in very subtle yet, important ways and must be dealt with in very precise manners. Let me make an example take mars for example a god of war lets say the practice in greece or rome was to offer pink bunnies to mars (totally make believe example obviously :P) Then lets say we encounter another people who also have a god of war like Ogun of the yoruba people but, to offer him pink bunnies is an offense. I think you can see where I am going with this. Sometimes in different places there is a subtle reason why something may cause offense.
Another example is among native american practice of walking in the direction of the sun in certain ceremonies. In north american they go one way and in south american they go the opposite. There is a very good reason for this and to switch the directions based on the place where you live is a very sound thing to do. One must learn to work with the energies in the proper way for where you live. So, in short I am saying if your belief system works for you there is no problem with making any system you wish but, take great care in dealing with other established systems and borrowing concepts and mixing this and that because sometimes those energies may look the same to you but, these energies may take offense in working with something you thought would be ok or even cause great harm to you and/or the world around you. Proceed with happiness the horseback riding philosophy I like it. Sounds kinda Zen like. :) | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/25/2006 8:39:50 AM |
That is why I do not really believe there are different gods/goddesses... I think it is all the same only we just have different stories to tell about what our beliefs are.
The different God's and Goddess' represent different strenghts not in how much strength they have but what type.
To use myself as an example, I can be called Daughter, Sister, Mother, Wife, Lover,Witch, Healer and friend.
Each of those titles brings a different feeling forward and a different approach to problems.
So it is almost imparative for someone to address me or approach me in the way that I am needed for me to respond correctly.
To envoke a name, brings forth that power source.
IMHO | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/6/2006 11:12:57 PM | Dangit, I really wish I'd caught this post from the beginning. This has to be one of the most comprehensive discussions I've ever encountered regarding witchcraft. Reading it has been really imformative,and I'm so glad to see so many people who are actually educated enough about their faith to be able talk about it intelligently. I can't tell you how many times I've joined and quickly exited forums which were overrun with uniformed people spouting hooey,who were only in it for the title, or using their "religion" as an excuse to run amok.
To use myself as an example, I can be called Daughter, Sister, Mother, Wife, Lover,Witch, Healer and friend.
Personally,I believe that all of those titles have power. In fact, I believe that any title,and any object for that matter, can have power. If you believe that something holds power, whether it be a dance, a cauldron,or a stick you pick up off the ground, then it does. All of these things are essentially composed of the same energy,as are we,and as such are capable of manipulating the energy that surrounds us in various ways, both physically and mentally. Many refer to this as magic, for lack of a better word, which is a perfectly lovely word that has been warped and twisted out of fear and lack of understanding.I believe that anyone can be a "witch". As a collective, we are all capable of the same power, even those that ridicule it or call it against God . Christians will say that God exists, whether you believe in him or not. I think the same can be said for magic.Besides, for all we know, that energy IS God. For some reason,it seems that throughout the ages ,there have always been people of all nationalities who are just more intrinsically attuned to this notion,and throughout time, have been referred to by many names, including "witch". | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/6/2006 11:18:10 PM | sorry if this humor is not appreciated and sorry if this comment was made in a previous post but I have neither the time nor the inclination to go searching through 10 pages of dialogue on witches.
Suffice to say the title of the thread put me rather in mind of the Monty Python segment from "The Holy Grail"
"She's a witch! She's a witch! Burn her, Burn her!"
"How do you know she's a witch?"
"She turned me into a newt............................I got better!" | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/7/2006 4:52:24 AM | FitBrit,
Part of that skit did get put in here. It was rather funny since it totally lost me as I have never seen it. So we had several posts sorting out my confusion.
Humor is always appreciated.
lafortuna
That was my point on the titles, it was in answer to the different God's and Goddesses. Of course it comes under the heading of MHO.
I believe that each religion that we have today has pretty much taken from a previous religion. When we research the storys in the Bible we can relate many of them back to what is called myths from before Christianity. I do think that some of the *concern* with magic is a natural fear of the unknown. Magic can be wonderful thing. I know for me the feeling that I have through my entire bodywhen I seek help from the energies outside my body are invigorating. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/7/2006 7:25:47 PM | | I think it pretty much goes without question that much of Christianity is derived from the combined mythologies of the cultures it has absorbed. Many ancient myths of the western civ. revolved around the sea and sea creatures. It seems sort of sadly poetic to me that these myths have been replaced and/or consumed by a faith spawned in the desert. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/14/2006 10:54:51 AM | I think we should start a new thread on this very topic if there is not one. The fact that many if not all forms of christianity are chock full of pagan rituals beliefs holidays etc.
It would start a very hot debate in my opinion and I would love to read what the christians would have to say in response to this fact. It always seems to be the case that people or groups that commit atrocities against other groups or peoples are themselves part of that group in some form and in order to fix this problem they try to kill them off. This is exactly what happened witht he christians and the pagans and also what happened with hitler whos mother was a Jew. I find this to be an interesting part of human nature. The zealot/fanatic and where they get their strong feelings from. Like if you notice the christians that come on here and flame and rant and rave the most were once (or will often say they were) witches, pagans, or atheists or some equiv.
it is as if in order to cleanse themselves from their past ways they have to 180 and be the opposite so strongly to prove to themselves and the world that we are not this any more!
EXTREME hahahahahaha come back around to the otherside | |
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