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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/20/2006 2:28:44 PM | Etymology: Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination
To me a witch is nothing less than a person with old practices.
Often these practices are based on very primitive beliefs.
If you are into that, that is your bag. Myself I prefer modern practices.
But that is just me. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/20/2006 2:53:32 PM | -----------"If you are into that, that is your bag. Myself I prefer modern practices."-----------
Nothing wrong with that something dont have to be old and dusty to have power but, even modern stuff stems from the old. Must respect your elders....
:) | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/20/2006 5:55:57 PM | | According to the book of Enoch the Fallen Angels taught Magic( the mysteries of heaven) to man in order to get them to worship them | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/20/2006 7:26:15 PM | SeriouslyFunnyLady RE: msg 242... as to protection.
I have always felt that I have a "cloak" if you will of protection about me. Guardian Angels.
I've been told by a mechanic that rolls his eyes and shakes when he holds your hand, that I have 24 guardian angels (that is until my brother in law died last week); may now have 25.
The messenger may be a bit strange, but I listen to all who speak, as I have been told upteen times to "pay attention" by someone special on the other side.
But now understand that I think that 'cloak' of protection is strongly from within. I think I am more powerful or strong because of my faith in those Angels and God, and in myself. And perhaps I make those entities stronger -for me- because of our connection.
I am just not going to let any ol' evil thing get in. (Texas pride talkin').
I say this because of events that have happened where someone evil could not get to me. Actually, probably a few evil doers have tried. Sounds pompous, but you'd have to hear the full story.
Now those Angels and my God could be renamed to those who are more acceptable to another faith; but no doubt are giving me a certain element of strength.
I'm curious as to if witches can call upon those entities and get assistance and you pretty much summed that up. I think I can too and in my seemingly aimless way, it seems to be working. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/20/2006 8:21:36 PM | If it is working for you keep on trucking. If it is not seek help simple as that.  | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/21/2006 12:13:44 AM | A Witch is generally a Celtic woman who is practicing the ancient Religions of the Celts during a Judeo-Christian occupation of a territory.
Another word for Witch would be one of the practicing Saints of Morrigan or Brigid. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/21/2006 12:28:49 AM | | Big thanks to Kevin for getting this thread back on track. I've been missing the discussion. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/24/2006 7:26:32 PM | Myself I do not base my own applications to life on primitive mainly agrarian
ideals.
I am not into the corn rise and fall with the promise to rise again metaphors.
Nor am I constrained to an idea that it takes two deities to creat something.
The whole concept is not anything that means a thing to me. I'm not a farmer,
I don't need a babylonian calendar (the pentacle) and I certainly do not need
to offer sacrifices to every baldur, apollo and isis that comes down the pike.
I figure if a deity can make a universe they can get their OWN ham sandwich.
I don't need to provide it. Nor do I need to prod a deity to do my bidding like
a candy machine, insert invocation/prayer, get yummy gooey centre result.
It has nothing to do with elders, it has everything to do with reality.
I do not believe anyone can keep with superstitious ideas like ligthning is
a god or that gods live in rocks or that there is a kami of a cell phone.
I do believe it is time for people to move beyond the ritualism and use of foci.
But again your mileage may vary. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 259 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/24/2006 7:40:41 PM | ^^
In many cases the rituals are merely used to allow Clear Focus
Once you can do this as a matter of course most rituals can be ignored/rearranged to suit your particular aims
Excepting once again, those involving invocations, as most invocations are very heavily religiously based
To ignore the religious aspect of invocations could be extremely dangerous
..
. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/24/2006 9:05:03 PM | has Monty posted? http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-05.htm
'Burn the witch!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MONKS: [chanting]
Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem.
[bonk]
Pie Iesu domine,...
[bonk]
...dona eis requiem.
[bonk]
Pie Iesu domine,...
[bonk]
...dona eis requiem.
CROWD:
A witch! A witch!
[bonk]
A witch! A witch!
MONKS: [chanting]
Pie Iesu domine...
CROWD:
A witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! We've found a witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! A witch! We've got a witch! A witch! A witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! We've found a witch! We've found a witch! A witch! A witch! A witch!
VILLAGER #1:
We have found a witch. May we burn her?
CROWD:
Burn her! Burn! Burn her! Burn her!
BEDEVERE:
How do you know she is a witch?
VILLAGER #2:
She looks like one.
CROWD:
Right! Yeah! Yeah!
BEDEVERE:
Bring her forward.
WITCH:
I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch.
BEDEVERE:
Uh, but you are dressed as one.
WITCH:
They dressed me up like this.
CROWD:
Augh, we didn't! We didn't...
WITCH:
And this isn't my nose. It's a false one.
BEDEVERE:
Well?
VILLAGER #1:
Well, we did do the nose.
BEDEVERE:
The nose?
VILLAGER #1:
And the hat, but she is a witch!
VILLAGER #2:
Yeah!
CROWD:
We burn her! Right! Yeaaah! Yeaah!
BEDEVERE:
Did you dress her up like this?
VILLAGER #1:
No!
VILLAGER #2 and 3:
No. No.
VILLAGER #2:
No.
VILLAGER #1:
No.
VILLAGERS #2 and #3:
No.
VILLAGER #1:
Yes.
VILLAGER #2:
Yes.
VILLAGER #1:
Yes. Yeah, a bit.
VILLAGER #3:
A bit.
VILLAGERS #1 and #2:
A bit.
VILLAGER #3:
A bit.
VILLAGER #1:
She has got a wart.
RANDOM:
[cough]
BEDEVERE:
What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3:
Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEVERE:
A newt?
VILLAGER #3:
I got better.
VILLAGER #2:
Burn her anyway!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn her! Burn! Burn her!...
BEDEVERE:
Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
VILLAGER #1:
Are there?
VILLAGER #2:
Ah?
VILLAGER #1:
What are they?
CROWD:
Tell us! Tell us!...
BEDEVERE:
Tell me. What do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2:
Burn!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
BEDEVERE:
And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1:
More witches!
VILLAGER #3:
Shh!
VILLAGER #2:
Wood!
BEDEVERE:
So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3:
B--... 'cause they're made of... wood?
BEDEVERE:
Good! Heh heh.
CROWD:
Oh, yeah. Oh.
BEDEVERE:
So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1:
Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE:
Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #1:
Oh, yeah.
RANDOM:
Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...
BEDEVERE:
Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1:
No. No.
VILLAGER #2:
No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1:
Throw her into the pond!
CROWD:
The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE:
What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1:
Bread!
VILLAGER #2:
Apples!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1:
Cider!
VILLAGER #2:
Uh, gra-- gravy!
VILLAGER #1:
Cherries!
VILLAGER #2:
Mud!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2:
Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR:
A duck!
CROWD:
Oooh.
BEDEVERE:
Exactly. So, logically...
VILLAGER #1:
If... she... weighs... the same as a duck,... she's made of wood.
BEDEVERE:
And therefore?
VILLAGER #2:
A witch!
VILLAGER #1:
A witch!
CROWD:
A witch! A witch!...
VILLAGER #4:
Here is a duck. Use this duck.
[quack quack quack]
BEDEVERE:
Very good. We shall use my largest scales.
CROWD:
Ohh! Ohh! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Ahh! Ahh... | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/24/2006 11:59:44 PM |
I am not into the corn rise and fall with the promise to rise again metaphors.
Something of a shame, if you ask me. That can be some powerful symbolism.
Nor am I constrained to an idea that it takes two deities to creat something.
Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has to believe all the same stuff. Although, again, I feel the symbolism of the dichotomy is important.
It has nothing to do with elders, it has everything to do with reality.
I see it as a bit of both and more.
I do not believe anyone can keep with superstitious ideas like ligthning is
a god or that gods live in rocks or that there is a kami of a cell phone.
Why not?
I do believe it is time for people to move beyond the ritualism and use of foci.
Whereas I would say this applies to many people, but not all. I would speculate that the vast majority of people still require some form of ritual, but I'll admit to having no research to reference in support of this.
In many cases the rituals are merely used to allow Clear Focus
Exactly. And, in many cases, folks simply have little to no focus, regardless of their desire to.
has Monty posted?
Repeatedly. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:01:37 AM | | that's OK, there are still more witches to burn. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:02:48 AM | | Just don't try to do it around me. That's right up there with hurting cats and burning books on the "I want to tick Feral off" scale. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:17:24 AM | | not even if they weigh the same as a duck? | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:19:12 AM | ------------"I do not believe anyone can keep with superstitious ideas like ligthning is
a god or that gods live in rocks "----------------
Why do you think it is superstious? I will share an interesting event that happened at a santeria (public ceremony that can be shared) Sacred drums were being played for Chango the god of lightning fire and justice. His song was being played and songs were being sung to bring him to posses one of his priests. There was not a cloud in the sky sun was shinning brightly. One of his priests became possesed and jumped about ten feet in the air when he landed on the floor a bolt of lighting struck so close to the house it sounded like it ripped through the roof. Shortly after he ran over to a Boiling hot pot of this type of okra dish that he likes. He began sticking his bare hand into this boiling pot of soup and ate his fill. Not even the slightest amount of redness on the possesed priests skin from the burns he surely should have sustained. He came and gave me and a friend who was there observing some of the best most personal advise we had ever recieved. I never met this guy and never met anyone he knew much less told him or anyone for that about the thing in which he spoke. The guy I brought thought much like you before I took him to this event. He is a priest now LOL. Strange how what people think is superstion often ends up being very real. Even stranger how the orichas work. Think about this in pure scientific statistical Stuff if you like. What are the chances of a priest faking getting mounted right at the precise moment in a song jumping in the air and landing precisely when a bolt of lighting strikes that close to the house? Even if you didnt believe what you saw or tried to explain the other event as mind over matter or some other strange thing. I hope you too can witness such things and experience what I have. So you too can have a greater respect for the energies that are called nature. They have a spirit and should be respected and wether you believe it or not are worthy of our praises and even worship. "Nature is ALWAYS suseptiable to manifestations of the sacred. A rock is not only a rock but, a place where a god can express themselves. " (part in quotes is from the movie ILE AYE by david burns)
Enjoy. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:38:46 AM | We have some good reports on Tesla doing all kinds of things with electricity..like drawing lightning and directing it, lighting up non-functioning flourescent tubes at some distance with no visible electric wires, etc. and various other scientific marvels. I would like to get some more information on him from different souces..I've read accounts, but not absolutely sure on all the claims the books make.
Looking at things from a viewpoint of a schooled follower of science would tend to make you miss out on anything not already accepted.
But that's the price you pay for following that type of method.
It's not as if people posting here are likely to do original scientific research on the subject of Santeria-and get subjects like in the experience you relate- and testing the preist somehow, in controlled experiments.
so the scientifically minded person would tend to not lend too much credence, since it hasn't been well tested. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 1:48:21 AM |
not even if they weigh the same as a duck?
 Knock it off, man. You're killin' me!
Why do you think it is superstious?
Strange how what people think is superstion often ends up being very real.
Back, I guess, to the malleability of definitions from dictionary to social to personal. For my part, I have no problem admitting to being superstitious. This is mainly due to the realisation on my part that, just because a thing is a myth or a superstition, does not mean it's not also true.
Looking at things from a viewpoint of a schooled follower of science would tend to make you miss out on anything not already accepted.
But that's the price you pay for following that type of method.
One might also say it's the price one pays for merely following.
It's not as if people posting here are likely to do original scientific research on the subject of Santeria-and get subjects like in the experience you relate- and testing the preist somehow, in controlled experiments.
Empirical vs. experiential evidence? Yeah, it's always tough to get someone to accept that what one has seen could have happened. Then, when something happens to them, they realise what it means to accept on firsthand experience rather than authoritative scientific demonstration. Sometimes, seeing truly is believing. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 5:40:55 AM |
Myself I do not base my own applications to life on primitive mainly agrarian
ideals.
I am not into the corn rise and fall with the promise to rise again metaphors.
Nor am I constrained to an idea that it takes two deities to creat something.
The whole concept is not anything that means a thing to me. I'm not a farmer,
I don't need a babylonian calendar (the pentacle) and I certainly do not need
to offer sacrifices to every baldur, apollo and isis that comes down the pike.
You may not be a farmer, but my bet is you certainly sustain yourself on what was grown on a farm somewhere.
And most farmers, ranchers will stand in their fields and say prayers to whatever God/dess they worship and ask for: rain, sun, warmer weather, cooler weather... whatever it is they need to make their crops grow as they should.
They have a very firm belief in the changing of seasons and what it means to them.
I figure if a deity can make a universe they can get their OWN ham sandwich.
I don't need to provide it. Nor do I need to prod a deity to do my bidding like
a candy machine, insert invocation/prayer, get yummy gooey centre result.
Sounds to me like you are sugar coating things (pun intended)
It has nothing to do with elders, it has everything to do with reality.
I do not believe anyone can keep with superstitious ideas like ligthning is
a god or that gods live in rocks or that there is a kami of a cell phone.
That is certainly your right. Just as those of us that do believe have a hard time understanding someone going through life not seeing the miracles and blessings around them.
I do believe it is time for people to move beyond the ritualism and use of foci
Most people practice some kind of ritual even it they don't realize it. Some call it family traditions (holiday gatherings and things going a certain way). For some it can be as simple as laying thier clothes out the night before so they are ready the next day. With a firm belief that if they don't their day will start out bad. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 6:40:44 AM | And the book of enoch is not even considered inspired by Jews
let alone christians or muslims.
It is like trying to include a pupose driven life into the canon. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 7:01:03 AM | Feral I am not a farmer, nor am I into farming.
IF I lived in an agraian society it MIGHT make sense, but I do not.
I live in a modern technological society where the corn that rises, falls
and rises again is genetically altered by companies that want to make the corn
addictively sweet to take advantage of the natural human propensity to
equate sweet is good and bitter or sour is bad.
I understand that the pentacle is NOT holy symbol or an unholy one, it
is merely a calendar. Nothing more. Humans place extra baggage on things
that matter little.
As for it takes two to tango attributed to a deity, that is again humans
and their strange desire to project their OWN experiences onto everyone
and everything else. Hence to make a world you need a mommy god and a
daddy god, what one can't just do it themselves? They are all powerful
all knowing aren't they? Polytheism is mankind projecting what they cannot
understand onto things. There is no kami of a cell phone, there is no god
of lightning. Lightning is nothing more that a terraforming application of
atmospheric electricity. It has no divinity on its own. And certainly a cell
phone does not either. If there is a kami in a cell phone then we are throwing
millions of gods into a landfill every year.
Our ancestors had some great tech, but like the modern world's population
had some VERY off ideas on how things operate. When even Leonardo believed
that the penis becomes engorged because of the lungs, well that shows that even
Leo had a problem with details. Pyramids, gliders, wet-cell batteries, star maps,
lateen sails, etc all wonderful tech that changed the world. Superstitions
only caused grief to humanity, not made it better.
It is overcoming superstition that will make humanity slowly improve. That
goes for modern superstitions as well.
To return to past inaccuracies solely because people have this poor taste
for nostalgia of the "good old days" is counter-productive. The old days
were no better than now, humans have always been as bad to each other
as they do these days and there will always be people that will take advantage
of others though use of fear, mis-information and superstition. So WHY on
earth give those types of control freaks the ammunition they need to control
the weak of mind?
Education, information and pragmatism is what we need to continue to
move forward as a planet. Not returning to the past's propganda and mis-information.
Legend and myth can be nice stories and teach lesson by metaphors.
They should not be thought of as truth though. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 7:08:24 AM | Is there an official account of this?
Was there pictures, video?
Was this person using HIS OWN powers of the mind to jump so high
and eat from a boiliing pot?
Corroboration is what is needed.
Believing in things other than what has become established truths
is not productive. To believe that salamanders are still born of fire
when we know they live in logs and when you set them ablaze the
run away is pretty foolish. So is the myth that flies are born of raw
meat when we know they are eggs set in that meat.
Truth that has already been established should not be cast aside to
placate a desire in humans to just be contrary. Lightning is not a god,
for it was we would not be able to create in in a lab. Neither is fire a god,
or water a god or rocks a god. If we can make them in labs, then they cannot
be divine. Unless you accept then that all gods are MADE by humans.
Then you totally discount all the divinity ever known and destroy all gods
for all times.
The old adage is that the proof is in the pudding. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 7:25:17 AM | My issue is that humans are a selfish lot as a whole.
They designate what is or isn't a god, then command this supposively
being that they are subservient to and can NEVER divine the mind of
to do their bidding like a j'inn.
God let ME win the lotto
God bring the rain for MY crops
God let ME have revenge on that person
God help ME.
Me, my, mine, me self self self.
So you have a god of the sky and all you do is order the poor guy
around. Winds here, rain there, sunshine over there, but not too much
and not too little... yabber yabber yabber.
And then when this god pours open a flood, because it is needed to
re-deposit soil from one palce to another, you all scream bloody
murder that yu house that humans built in a FLOOD plain is washed away.
This is my beef with the superstitious. They are not rooting themselves in
reality. They make up all sorts of improbable things to simply gloss over
what they do not want to take personal responsibility for.
Oh well the flash flood came because wanted it. We
can't go against God. When IF we look at what HUMANS did three years
before in not maintaining the brush and allowing it to get too high and too
dry and it burned in a fire caused by some idiot with a cigarette and now
there is nothing to stop the soil from eroding and setting up a potential
flash flood, we just blame a god and say its beyond us to comprehend the
mind of such things.
Utter crap!
First we prune the brush and keep it healthy. Then there will be proper
drainage and density to the soil to keep it from becoming a flash flood.
It is called taking care of things and spending (heaven forbid) tax dollars
to do it. Then you reduce the chances of the disaster occuring.
Its called Prudence.
We don't need miracles to pull our backsides out of the trouble we set up
in the first place. We need prudence and education to look at the WHOLE
picture, not just one part of it.
We cannot do that on invocations, myths or legends. We need to do that on
prudence and knowledge. And we won't have that if we don't take responsibility
and keep delegating to some poor supernatural being whom we ONLY praise
when they don't burn, boil, fry or roast us.
It is high time humanity steps up and acts like adults. Not like whining children
that need to scapegoat their parents when things don't go their way.
Primitive thought processes will not advance us. It will keep us as little kids
for all eternity. We need to grow up and understand the world and how WE
fit into it and it fits into us. Not hope for some supernatural being to yank
our sorry behinds out of the fire every time we stick ourt hands into it.
Your mileage may vary. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 12:29:16 PM | ------------"Is there an official account of this?
Was there pictures, video?"-------------
Why would anyone want to do this. People who practice this religion dont try to convert people or prove anything to anyone. If its not for you so be it. I just wanted to let you know an example of some of the things I have seen to think in what you call a superstious way. There are many many things science does not understand. There are many more they will never understnad with their present way of thinking.
----------------"Was this person using HIS OWN powers of the mind to jump so high
and eat from a boiliing pot?"-------------------
You tell me how a person over 65 jumps that high and lands right at the moment a bolt of lightning strikes and eats out of boiling pots. Would love to hear your theories.
------------------"Believing in things other than what has become established truths
is not productive. To believe that salamanders are still born of fire
when we know they live in logs and when you set them ablaze the
run away is pretty foolish. So is the myth that flies are born of raw
meat when we know they are eggs set in that meat. "-------------------
Alot of what you are trying to discredit is symbolism that you would NEVER understand with your scientific only mind. It is symbolic representation of a belief system that is actually not untrue even scientifically. It is not ment to be taken as science and I never met anyone who does take it that way. If you remember we are all modern men who go to school and learn science. If this stuff was a bunch of crap no one would believe in it no more.
---------------"Truth that has already been established should not be cast aside to
placate a desire in humans to just be contrary. Lightning is not a god,
for it was we would not be able to create in in a lab. Neither is fire a god,
or water a god or rocks a god."-------------------
Your absolutely right they are not gods it is the spirit of these things that are gods. This you cannot disprove even with your great science. Just like you cannot prove that you or I do not have a spirit. We can show you that they do exist but, you do not wish to believe in such things so there is no point anyways. (like I said we dont believe in converting etc.) Just because you kow secrets of how to control lightning and fire dont make them less sacred it is not the water fire or lighting that is sacred it is the spirit of these things that is sacred. As far as the rocks go think of them as an antenea. The rock itself is not sacred it is the spirit that is enticed to inhabit the rock that are sacred. It is like a symbol of that god an object that one can visualize something that one cannot see with their eyes. Something that can be felt. Something that can also come and take control of a person and speak to us given the proper things are done to acomplish this. YES, there are fakes out there but, this does not mean the whole thing is a farce. When science can prove there is no spirit in anything that we are all just a bunch of animated chemicals and compounds here for no purpose or whatever weirdness someone like this would want you to believe maybe people will believe such absurdity. Since science cannot prove it or even explain any of this religion will stay. Because religion explains that which science cannot. One can be a scientist and believe in such things. Trust me I know plenty of them who are priests in my religion. They often come with the same attitude you are displaying now and change their tune when they themselves get possesed or have someone who is possesed give them advise on something that there is no way in hell the stranger who did this could even know the first thing about the subject they never spoke to anyone could know. I know a particular person who was so depressed as a scientist that he has to be on drugs. The drugs dont work for him he continues his spiral down and the doctors give him more drugs and throw out big long names for his problem. Still he get worse. I take him to a "priest" of the religion and they work with him whole not as a chemical problem or some big word in science. As a person a spirit and a mind they fixed him where the doctors just made him worse. BTW the guy i am speaking of was a scientist and he didnt believe in such things. He does now hehehe
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/25/2006 4:38:01 PM |
I figure if a deity can make a universe they can get their OWN ham sandwich.
I don't need to provide it. Nor do I need to prod a deity to do my bidding like
a candy machine, insert invocation/prayer, get yummy gooey centre result.
Sorry to revisit this, but I do find it significant that most gods that were credited with specially creating humanity are also ascribed the reason for doing so as "so that humanity would worship them." Interesting, no?
However, this is a little off-topic, don't you think? I was under the impression we were discussing Witchcraft, rather than Paganism at large.
That is certainly your right. Just as those of us that do believe have a hard time understanding someone going through life not seeing the miracles and blessings around them.
Well said, SFL. That kind of "selective blindness" as I see it, simply astounds me.
Who brought up the book of Enoch?
Feral I am not a farmer, nor am I into farming.
I don't recall suggesting it. And, I fail to see the relevance.
I understand that the pentacle is NOT holy symbol or an unholy one, it
is merely a calendar.
New one on me. Do you have a reference on this?
Humans place extra baggage on things that matter little.
I would honestly tend to agree. However, there are instances where this can be beneficial. Yay for language, eh?
As for it takes two to tango attributed to a deity, that is again humans and their strange desire to project their OWN experiences onto everyone and everything else. Hence to make a world you need a mommy god and a daddy god, what one can't just do it themselves?
I must not have been clear. It's not a necessity thing, it's an understanding thing. Read on.
Polytheism is mankind projecting what they cannot understand onto things.
I've seen this definition applied to religion in general.
There is no kami of a cell phone, there is no god of lightning. Lightning is nothing more that a terraforming application of atmospheric electricity. It has no divinity on its own. And certainly a cell phone does not either.
No? How do you know?
If there is a kami in a cell phone then we are throwing millions of gods into a landfill every year.
Such is life in a "modern technological society" where the corn rises and falls, and few, if any take any time to appreciate it. Sad, if you ask me.
It is overcoming superstition that will make humanity slowly improve. That goes for modern superstitions as well.
Whereas, I simply disagree. Mechanistic causes and empirical evidence are great. Don't get me wrong, but to assume that we know all the ways of looking at the world, much less understanding it, really sells science and technology a bit short, too, don't you think? In my view, superstitions and myths partake of a psycho-spiritual dimension of human understanding that helps to round out our lives. True, people can be idiots about it, but then you get plenty of morons playing with material concepts, as well.
To return to past inaccuracies solely because people have this poor taste for nostalgia of the "good old days" is counter-productive.
I entirely agree that that would not be a helpful reason to have faith or accept beliefs. Good thing there are a plethora of other, more beneficial reasons, then, eh?
...and there will always be people that will take advantage of others though use of fear, mis-information and superstition. So WHY on earth give those types of control freaks the ammunition they need to control the weak of mind?
I believe it is important to note that the "weak of mind" (I'd say "will" rather) will always be manipulable, whether it's with dogma in a religious sense, or political doctrine, or some other means. Hell, advertising agencies take advantage of this fact all the time. Additionally, those who would use any underhanded means to manipulate others also generally have plenty of ammunition handed them willingly, and in some cases, eagerly, by those they wish to manipulate. Let's just break it down, yes? The mentally, spiritually, and otherwise weak will generally follow where led, whereas the strong see and utilise what is available, "superstitions," "myths," and faith among their options.
Education, information and pragmatism is what we need to continue to move forward as a planet.
I would agree on education and information. Not entirely sure what is meant here by pragmatism. Beyond that, to "move forward as a planet," we'll probably also need a unifying truth, and some form of unswerving dedication on the part of everyone involved to a common ideal...
Legend and myth can be nice stories and teach lesson by metaphors.
They should not be thought of as truth though.
Nor, in my opinion should they be thought untruthful. Truth is a funny thing, brother, and we can learn a lot from many different, apparently conflicting, viewpoints. Such is the beauty of diversity.
If we can make them in labs, then they cannot be divine. Unless you accept then that all gods are MADE by humans.
My question is, why does it have to be either/or?
Then you totally discount all the divinity ever known and destroy all gods for all times.
Well, some have tried...
The old adage is that the proof is in the pudding.
Indeed, but, as has been mentioned already, one can taste the pudding, or one can publish the results of chemically breaking it down to obtain the "proof." I know which I'd prefer, but maybe that just makes me a credulous human.
They designate what is or isn't a god, then command this supposively being that they are subservient to and can NEVER divine the mind of to do their bidding like a j'inn.
"Scott, you just don't ...get it, do you?" -Dr. Evil
The ritual use of invocational magic, which seems to be the idea behind this post, is not exactly the same as a prayer in the Judeo-Christian sense, where one can beg for something, and applaud God if it's granted and simply attribute it to the "wishes of God" if it's not. Magically speaking, one symbolically invokes the power of the god or goddess to help focus one's own will. It's a great deal more involved and complicated than simply demanding something from someone for nothing. Beyond that, the gods worshipped are not always the same powers invoked or utilised in a magical working. I'm not entirely certain I understand why anyone would take the view presented, unless they're simply not well informed.
Me, my, mine, me self self self.
Oddly enough, this is probably one of the best points made in the post. Yes, many people do use magic for selfish reasons. Not the best of ideas, but we've already covered the implications earlier on this thread.
This is my beef with the superstitious. They are not rooting themselves in reality. They make up all sorts of improbable things to simply gloss over what they do not want to take personal responsibility for.
Some do, it's true. But, again, this isn't confined to "superstition," nor is it an across-the-board factor for all "superstitious" beliefs. I find it interesting that one can take such a melodramatic and stereotypical view when doing so is partaking of the very same oversimplification one would be trying to denounce.
Utter crap!
The fun part here is that the cause/effect scenarios we're discussing here are just the sorts of things Witches attempt to account for and take into consideration.
We don't need miracles to pull our backsides out of the trouble we set up in the first place. We need prudence and education to look at the WHOLE picture, not just one part of it.
Again with the either/or. I say, why limit ourselves to just one option?
We cannot do that on invocations, myths or legends. We need to do that on
prudence and knowledge.
Or, both, making sure we are taking responsibility. Three-fold law, yes? Ah. It all comes together. Gotta love it!
It is high time humanity steps up and acts like adults. Not like whining children that need to scapegoat their parents when things don't go their way.
I'm in complete agreement, but it would get off-topic quickly.
Primitive thought processes will not advance us.
Indeed. Especially such immature forms of thinking as blanket statements and criticism of misunderstood, misrepresented, and misinterpreted belief systems. Sorry, you can have the soap-box back, now.
We need to grow up and understand the world and how WE fit into it and it fits into us.
Hence, the beautiful appropriateness and applicability of Witchcraft. "By Jove, I think he's got it!" -I think it's Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, originally, but I don't entirely remember.
Okay, way too long. I'll get to the rest later. Much love, people! | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 2/26/2006 10:05:43 AM | [Primitive thought processes will not advance us. It will keep us as little kids
for all eternity. We need to grow up and understand the world and how WE
fit into it and it fits into us. Not hope for some supernatural being to yank
our sorry behinds out of the fire every time we stick ourt hands into it./]
I've always considered the absolute refusal to believe in the possibility of things you don't understand as "primitive" thinking. I believe in things that you might consider to be supernatural, but I don't rely on any entity,physical or otherwise,to do for me what I can do on my own,and I don't know of many pagans who get their feelings hurt if things don't go their way.As a matter of fact, as far as this particular forum goes, I'd say you preaching to the proverbial choir. I would venture to guess that neither kabiosile or feral spend much time shaking their fists at the sky in defiance of gods that don't cater to their every whim. | |
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