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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 11:06:24 AM | Linderstreet, per your notation: "the angels have powers and they are suppose to use these powers to help God for the better." (sorry, had to capitalize God for you)
I like this comment and so should all of us who would love to be angels someday, but alas, for now we are mere mortals. If fallen angels become witches, then we have lots of Christian angel/witches about.
I like thinking I may have been an angel....once. Interesting note here: my bf is a Buddist/former and maybe a bit still Christian and he has a large beige coloration mark on his back that resembles wings. He is an angel, trust me!
But then: "and useing the powers for evil they are witches" I think I've learned just enough of witchery to understand that there are those who are Good, Bad, and somewhere in between...
Just as we all, of all faiths, are good, bad and confused as Hell.
Perhaps it's a self control issue. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 11:18:40 AM | A witch is a fallen angel, the angels have powers and they are suppose to use these powers to help god for the better.
Well, this might be mere conjecture on my part, but here goes....
Angels are souls that have evolved well beyond the need to incarnate into the Earth school. A "witch" is a HUMAN that has chosen a particular path towards Light. The two are not even mildly similar.
Ahhhh.... Linderstreet...... I'm sure you mean well.
SFL, I understand you apprehension about sharing your stories in these forums. I've thrown a few out there and had them ridiculed by left-brained fanatics and closed-minded bullies. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 11:28:48 AM | Nomad, I think he's speaking reincarnated humans, who may have aspired to be angels, yet made the choice to fall back to Earth to pursue worldly things. Some of them may have been witches in their former life. As to them all becoming witches this time around; that should be a personal choice; unless witchism is a non selected activity.
And that then is my question. Can one be a witch, like genetically predisposed? Like some people think that being gay is genetically predisposed with a bit of choice thrown in for good measure. Could one have "powers" that are either used, or not... or discovered or not.
I personally think we all have 'powers' if you will, we just choose to accept them as such things as coincidence or accidental or just ooooweirdoooo things. I'll try to convey this to you via thought transferance - see if you catch my drift.... | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 11:42:29 AM | Ashley,
Not sure about the genetically predisposed. I do know that all my life Christianity didn't answer my spiritual needs.
As a small child, as with a lot of children I wanted to save all lost and injured animals. I constantly upset my family with my crying jags over some poor dead animal on the side of the road. The thing is I never grew past it. All the neighborhood kids knew that if they found something hurt or lost take bring it to me I would take it in....now making my husband, instead of my parents, crazy
As I grew older I asked questions that were never answered, and started to form my own religious beliefs, again making my family crazy.
Then when on two seperate occasions I went to church seeking help and solice and was turned away I chose a different path.
After much research I found Paganism, and for me it felt like I was coming home. My spirit didnt' need to search any further. Was I a witch in a past life, I believe so. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 11:46:47 AM | Ashley -
I don't think it's so much about genetically predisposed when it comes to religious theories and beliefs.
I do believe that sexuality is predetermined as it is based on physical attraction, not choice. Just as a heterosexual's sexuality is predetermined because their physical attractions lie in the opposite sex. That's all I'm going to say on that because well...that's just not for this thread hehe
Faith is a choice, yes a realization that we all may or may not come to in our time...but certainly not predetermined in the womb.
The powers you speak of, if you mean those who can see and/or speak with the deceased, those who can see the future in small or large amounts (prophets, fortune tellers, tarot readers, palmistry etc), those who have physic or telepathic or empathic ability that is recognized, yes these powers are set in the womb. It's part of a genetic makeup - what parts of the brain are unlocked is entirely set in the womb. This is not to say that there aren't those who have unlocked these parts of the brain through various ways of learning and hard work, that is possible too. But for those little children who can do these things, it was definitely predetermined that those parts of the brain would be unlocked.
There is of course very little proof of this, and so it is merely my belief.
Ok now for the fallen angels are witches thing....
To be an angel fallen or otherwise, would you not have to KNOW (not believe or have faith but KNOW) that God does exist?
Witches, wiccans, gardenerians...blah blah blah and an assortment of other pagan faiths do not believe or have faith in the Christian God nevermind KNOW that he exists...that being said... I fail to see how this conclusion is even possible nevermind probable.
Feral - you're right too there are those pagans who would shun christianity...it is sadly a game of chess I think. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 12:12:09 PM |
I started the thread because I wanted some on here to have a better understanding of what my understanding of the modern day witch is. It wasn't ment to single out Wicca but more as a gereralization of Paganism in modern day society. As I have said before not all Pagans are Wiccan, but all Wiccan's are Pagan.....just as not all Christians are Baptist, but all Baptists are Pagan.
Boy did I make a blunder, I am surprised I didn't get called on the above paragraph.
that last sentence is suppose to read:
Just as not all Christians are Baptist, but all Baptists are Christian.
Eeek.....ducking those I might have offened...there was no flame intended. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 12:55:29 PM | | Fair Lady, I guess my question on powers then, is.... are these considered witchery by witches? As some died (haha) in the woolery Christians would think them evil, do any witches think them evil? | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 1:09:32 PM | Powers aren't evil, it's how they are used that can be considered that.
I guess I'm not real clear on what you yourself consider *witchery*
One of the best known psychics is Sylvia Brown who is very christian, yet when you read her books many of her rituals are pagan like.
She would not consider her powers to have anything to do with witchcraft I am sure. But as a gift from God.
Does that answer your question? | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 1:26:15 PM | I too have met a psychic who is a Christian, from India; and he believes his ability is a gift from God. I agree with that.
He says I am psychic too (only in a bitty way I'm sure); says he can train me to become 'more' psychic. I live too far away to indulge myself.
Think of that... training, Psychic 101.
I personally only know one person who I consider to be in league with the devil or directly evil and he says he's an athiest. He is most clearly a conduit.
Other than that, I think most people try to stay away from any 'considered evil influence', aka the great unknown, hense the fear of witches, psychics, etc... I personally think as you said, powers can be used for evil purposes; but for the most part would not be.
The book I am reading doesn't fully explain pegan training 101, but indicates it can be done by a local chapter. Yet, surely this would be different from area to area, coven to coven. So, is this then the same as saying, training in Witch 101? And, are any 'powers' taught / passed down? I realize that 'powers' is not the right phrase - just can't quite get the mind in gear on phrasing it. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 35 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 1:37:45 PM | Christianity and the gentler forms of Witchcraft that are being talking about here, are inextricably mixed in places like rural Ireland
It is only in the last few years that it would be considered strange not to be both Christian and 'have the powers'
This would include herbal medicine, gentle spells etc etc etc
This includes all the people with Psychic abilities too, although being Psychic has nothing to do with your beliefs
It is just an ability some people have, that can be trained/strengthened, if you want to do so
Psychic abilities are nothing to do with religion
Many of those with them have tremendous Christian faith
Most Older Irish 'Witches' would consider themselves Christian rather than Pagan
To be, as they call it 'fey', is just something that happens
Just a part of life for some people, who will go to the mounds one day, and Church the next without a qualm, and will be welcome in both places
..
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 1:42:34 PM | Ok, from my understanding, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Usually covens are related to the wiccan path, which is a form of paganism. If you are looking to further your gifts, then I don't believe a coven is the way you want to go.
Again according to my understanding, a coven is very much like a going to a certain Church, the members can help you with rituals, any spell work they do, answer questions as to what they *as a coven* believe and any research they have done on their history and why they chose the path they did.
For any abilities you have, research look into books stay away from books titled things like Pschyic abilities for Dummies. Research some of the physics in your area, look into occult stores in your area and see what kind of classes they are offering. I don't think you will get help in the Christian community to persue this, that is why I suggest the occult stores.
If you have never been to a ritual, they can be very powerful if done right, just as a good preacher can leave you with a feeling that you have truly been visited by the spirit of God.
You can learn to harness that power yourself with concentration and your personal belief that you are a spiritual being who has the same abilities as anyone else to draw the energies to you. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:04:24 PM | | powers are gifts not to be taken lightly and not to be countered by drugs. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 38 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:07:22 PM | To develope Psychic abilities is very different to developing 'Wiccan' abilities
You need to find other people with similar abilities
They can be anywhere, in any group of people
I would not recommend Covens for this, if you already have Christian beliefs, as most covens will consider themselves Pagan rather than Christian
This would be putting pressure on yourself in two directions, as your Christian beliefs would be incompatible with many 'Coven' beliefs/activities
This would interfere with developing the Psychic part, as to do this as an adult, you will need a clear/contented mind
Being Psychic is just an ability some people have to greater or lesser amounts
It has nothing to do with being Pagan, being Christian, being Martian, going to Covens, being Damned or anything else
These abilities are a lot easier to develope while young, but can be increased at any age, if the basic infrastructure is there
Many Psychic abilities are definitely part of our genetics
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:14:19 PM | Longte I agree with you whole heartly, that is why I suggested contacting occult stores, they usually have a line on where classes or teachers are and how to reach them.
The pyschic that is at the occult store I visit, is very christian. I do believe she holds classes. I would just try and verify who I was dealing with. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 10:46:03 AM | Weep for me, I had a long, beautiful pile of post for everyone. And I lost it. AAARRGGHH!
Anyway, yeah. I'll try to summarise. Witchcraft is a craft; it's a learned set of procedures (spells) to accomplish things. Witches are folks who practice Witchcraft.
Psychic abilities and other abilities tapped by the craft are, if not genetic, at least personal and based on individual development. They can also be enhanced through the Craft, but don't have to be.
Wiccans are members of a Pagan faith that tends to heavily utilise a lot of the techniques of Witchcraft, but they are not necessarily synonymous.
Angels, in the orthodox faiths (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) are specially created agents of God and not "developmental stages" of human souls. I'm sure there are alternate interpretations of angels wherein they could be, but I'm also certain most orthodox believers wouldn't recognise that concept as representing angels.
SFL beat me to the punch on the "Baptists are Pagans" thing. Still, it cracked me up!
I might have to resurrect the "Not a Spell Exchange" thread, just to share some of those stories for Nomad. And trichinosis (or mockery) be damned!
Just as we all, of all faiths, are good, bad and confused as Hell.
This one I just had to reconstruct. Little of this:  Little of this:  Ashley, you rock!  | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 11:01:37 AM | (Ash bows to the great Wolf and offers a meaty bone)
Know any good spells? Would sure love to learn some...
I'm sure I've been called a witch,  should live up to my reputation.  | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:16:11 PM | Now ashley,
You have to become a Pagan convert before you start doing spell work.
Otherwise you just get to do the Christian prayer thing.
Disclaimer- I am not attempting to convert her from Christianity | |
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nergal
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Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 43 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:39:12 PM | | Pointy Hat .. Broomstick .. Cat .... floats on water .. burns well ... = WITCH | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:43:00 PM | Ashley, SFL is 100% correct in her comment. DO NOT ATTEMPT spellwork without first having some training and knowledge. It is not a toy. If I can give some advice without offending you I would suggest you look for a book at Half Price books. It is one I found early on and one that I give to people instead of trying to explain my own beliefs (usually turns into a debate on Christianity so i just avoid it!).
I am not saying that Wicca would be your path should you choose Paganism, I am just suggesting this book as a simple, easy to understand overview.
It is a little hard back book (almost like a child size book) with a pinkish cover, the title is "Simple Wicca". I apologize that I cannot remember the author's name, but I see it at Half Price books all the time.
Other authors that I have found to be very informitive are Raven Silverwolf and Scott Cunningham.
Do some research and gain some knowledge of Paganism before branching off into spells. You need to understand what you are doing and how it may affect things around you. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:47:45 PM | | Got the broom, got the cat, sink like a stone......can't find my pointy hat....and try and stay way from Christians with kindling and matches. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:44:23 PM | SFL, I don't think the conversion is necessary, but you are certainly hardcore right on the education thing. Blonde's got it down, too. Definitely learn all you can before giving anything a try. Scott Cunningham is a very good starting point, so good call there, too. I'd also recommend, at least for the basics, "Pagan Ways" by Gwydion O'Hara. No spells, but the book's got a lot of good information on the bases for much of Pagan thought, worship, and ritual.
Nergal, you left out the weight comparison with a duck. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 47 | |
| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:51:38 PM | I tend to disagree that Spell Work is incompatible with remaining Christian
Yes there are some things that seem in total opposition to Christian Beliefs, but many Irish/Welsh/Celtic Witches also consider themselves to be good Catholics
They consider using Earth Powers to conduct their work, is seperate from the Heavenly Powers they use in Catholic Religion
This has been tradition there for many centuries
It is nothing new
Many Rigid Catholics oppose this, just as many Rigid Pagans, consider them to be only part time Witches
But these are the ones that seem to be most on call, and do most of the best work
So it is strange that in the very places where Celtic Witchcraft originated, the two ideologies are considered compatible
Yet in other places they are not
Whereas in other countries a lot of Ritual accompanies most spell work, in Ireland they often just go to confession, to make sure they are spiritually clean, then do whatever is necessary
very quietly and efficiently
Covens are not nearly as large a part of Older Irish Witchcraft, as they are in other areas
Most good practioners are rather solitary people, who, in many cases also have fairly strong psychic abitities
..
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:00:12 PM | Longte,
Earlier in the thread I did mention that she could persue a path of Pagan/Christian. And that she really didn't have to give up the idea of Jesus, and a singular God.
For many in Ireland and Scotland they learn spell work right along with learning how to cook it is such and accepted part of their lives they are very comfortable with it.
Unfortunately there are many that are willing to qoute Bible passages about witches needing to be stoned that point to the fact that most Christians aren't comfortable with the idea of someone doing spellwork and church.
My major point is, spellwork, or working the craft is not something to be taken lightly or dabble in. There are energys out there that can be called on, and if not done in the proper way you can cause yourself as well as others problems.
I myself am a solitary witch, I don't belong to any coven and most of my ritual work and spell work is very low key. I am always willing to share any knowledge that I have, yet it is always with cautions. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:19:58 PM | Ok, it has to be done:
CROWD: Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
BEDEVERE: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #3: Shh!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEVERE: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of... wood?
BEDEVERE: Good! Heh heh.
CROWD: Oh, yeah. Oh.
BEDEVERE: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE: Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #1: Oh, yeah.
RANDOM: Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...
BEDEVERE: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No. No.
VILLAGER #2: No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Uh, gra-- gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR: A duck!
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEVERE: Exactly. So, logically...
VILLAGER #1: If... she... weighs... the same as a duck,... she's made of wood.
BEDEVERE: And therefore?
VILLAGER #2: A witch!
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch! A witch!...
VILLAGER #4: Here is a duck. Use this duck. [quack quack quack]
BEDEVERE: Very good. We shall use my largest scales.
CROWD: Ohh! Ohh! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Ahh! Ahh...
BEDEVERE: Right. Remove the supports! [creak]
CROWD: A witch! A witch! A witch!
WITCH: It's a fair cop. | |
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| What is a witch?
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:36:07 PM | Norman, I must really be dense, because you really lost me on that one.
Do you want to take the old witch lady by the hand and explain it? | |
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