| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 2:04:10 PM | | And I find I listen to different music for different moods I can be in. Frankly when I'm depressed, I really don't get into listening to music. Maybe one would think that Blues iwould be right, but frankly, Blues is better when I'm happy listening to those great guitar riffs in it. Mellower music for mellower moods too. When I'm driving I like good energetic music, Stuff like Stevie Ray Vahaugn, Jimi Hendrix, etc. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 52 | |
| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 2:11:17 PM |
Late, how about "transLateing" for us, the great unwashed who are not so versed in Latin phrases?
Fallacy: Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc
Translation: "After this, therefore because of this" ( Latin )
Type: Non Causa Pro Causa
If I'm among the some who are adhering to an argument to serve an agenda,
You wouldn't be alone.
what do you suppose my "agenda" to be?
Haven't a clue, it's immaterial to the premise as far as I'm concerned.
And I find I listen to different music for different moods I can be in. Outside of personal taste, I bet the choice is based more on sound than lyrics.
re: tempo, amplitude, etc. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 2:12:11 PM | A kid who goes off and commits crimes because of music has far more problems than the music he listens to. I don't think music causes violence, I think people do. Perhaps parents who didn't pay enough attention, perhaps chronic depression, perhaps all kinds of things...you get my drift. Maybe their temperment might attract them to a certain type of music but the music is not to blame for their temperment.
That all being said I think music can have some influence but then again, so can the weather. Maybe he wouldn't have committed the crime if it was raining out....blame the sun dammit!!!
Sure, the kid has other problems besides the music he listens to. Of course, people cause violence. People cause music too -- and among what passes for music today are a lot of "songs" that glorify, glamorize and celebrate violence. You acknowledge that music can have some influence. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that those who promote and perpetuate this type of music, from the media to the buying public to the musicians themselves, all share in the responsibility to be a good influence as opposed to a bad one? As for "blame the sun, dammit", thanks for the needless cheap shot that really says nothing. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 54 | |
| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 2:17:48 PM | Of course, people cause violence. People cause music too
Syllogistic error ^^^^^^
More fallacy.
As for "blame the sun, dammit", thanks for the needless cheap shot that really says nothing.
Actually a valid analogy, any perceived offense is probably on your part.
Why is it so hard to acknowledge that those who promote and perpetuate this type of music, from the media to the buying public to the musicians themselves, all share in the responsibility to be a good influence as opposed to a bad one?
(sigh)
Because it makes no sense (in the context of the OP). | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 2:54:56 PM | | Livewire, Ive never been able to describe it before but you nailed it, I FEEL music!!! Thankyou! | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 3:12:56 PM | Gosh, it's so nice to hear that I'm not as "weird" as I thought I was~~~~ Just a little bit  | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 3:22:50 PM | | The power of music is very strong it can make u sad happy mad its something i feel every time i listen to music | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 3:38:13 PM |
"Why is it so hard to acknowledge that those who promote and perpetuate this type of music, from the media to the buying public to the musicians themselves, all share in the responsibility to be a good influence as opposed to a bad one?"
(sigh)
Because it makes no sense (in the context of the OP).
Sigh away, Late. My argument makes perfect sense and is in perfect keeping with the point of the original post. Don't you think it would be more impressive, less fallacious and more to the point if a person who disagreed actually paid attention to the original post and addressed the actual argument I'm making instead of merely trying to impress us all with his apparently vast knowledge of logic and Latin? | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 3:50:56 PM | Artandsoul, your arguement is far from a new one: the same one can be made for many other outlets. Let's take the news media, for instance. The cry is often heard that the news has become a long parade of sensationalistic tripe, or Hollywood gossip; investigative journalism, and anything of significance is pushed to the backburner or shunned entirely. It's because the great unwashed prefer the former, but also because it's much more cost- , time- , and energy intensive to have a few reporters gather up facts and interviews, and then write a unique, credible story about it. I hope the parallel to music is self-evident. As you say, M n' M (melts upon listening, not in your soul) tried the "postive" angle, it didn't sell, so he went for what sold. He wasn't about to put in long years to learn the craft of music, because he didn't, and doesn't, care about music. Forget about "artists", he's not a musician, either, so you can't even tone it down to that word.: He's an opportunist, a cynic.
Here's some news: listeners aren't created or encouraged by his kind of noise: those people are already out there. An audience and the people who perform for them are a community, they're all of a piece. The ones who demand, indeed, are hostile, to art, to creativity, are not going to go to a concert or be bothered with the plethora of outstanding, driven, soulful, talented artists and bands out there as we speak. The question is: why not? It's not just that they're not getting exposure because of marketing hype, it's because the great unwashed have actually heard greatness before, and were unimpressed with it. Even if you lead a horse to water...etc..... | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 4:04:07 PM | There are some of us "horses" that cannot be led, no matter how hard you try~((oops, telling my secrets))~~  | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 4:05:09 PM | | Rory, good post (msg 59)... I can't really disagree with much that you say but neither do I feel that it refutes my own argument that musicians and other "artists" (so-called or not) do have a responsibility to give the unwashed some greatness if they have it in them to do so. Maybe if more of us were more dedicated to that, we could all get together and do something about helping the unwashed to cultivate more refined tastes. Later when I have time -- gotta leave for work now -- I will make a few more comments about that and the points raised by your well written post. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 6:30:09 PM | Hi A&S, I haven't yet read the whole thread so my apologies if I'm covering old ground. I agree with your original post 100%. One of the reasons I am putting so much effort into music as opposed to say mathematics or anything else arguably worthier, is precisely because it is so effective at getting people's attention and subsequently influencing what they do.
It's a very strong force in not only the human mind, but also in animals, and here it seems to be used for communication and evolutionary purposes (or natural selection). Who knows exactly what role music plays in the human mind today? It is definitely emotional, yet music is a high-status industry so for sure the 'selection' angle is still present. Obviously this makes successful participants very powerful indeed. Even though I was just a kid at the time I can still remember the FEAR in some people when punk let rip in the seventies! This was presumably due to the overt anarchistic/anti-establishment message. You could argue the 60’s pyschedelic era was also in part fuelled by music, and this profoundly influenced a massive number of people. If the music didn’t start this culture, then it certainly reflected, influenced, and reinforced it. The list goes on.
...and among what passes for music today are a lot of "songs" that glorify, glamorize and celebrate violence. You acknowledge that music can have some influence. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that those who promote and perpetuate this type of music, from the media to the buying public to the musicians themselves, all share in the responsibility to be a good influence as opposed to a bad one?
Er, yes and no! Sure you can say some music such as rap, psychedelia, or rave influences people and therefore causes bad behaviour. But you would have a job to stop them doing it without resorting to laws involving subversion, incitement, and even terrorism. The trouble is we know it's happening because we see the effect; except prosecuting an individual is nigh on impossible as you have to prove the music was the direct cause in that particular case! In other words any responsibility regarding the artist and/or industry and/or public is defined in the legal sense rather than the moral.
...that musicians and other "artists" (so-called or not) do have a responsibility to give the unwashed some greatness if they have it in them to do so.
The mob are irrelevant assuming you can sell your music. The answer to this lies with you. If you want a life of luxury then use your talent to feed the monster. If you care more about your impact in this life and beyond it than material success, then aim to excel and influence people in a positive way. Personally I see music as a fun stepping stone to greater things; more control, and more influence. If you have talent, and you want to change the way people think, then you couldn't choose a better (initial) method than music :) | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/6/2006 7:02:35 PM | | i love music like eveyone else, could not imagine my life without it! certain songs and/or performers really do have a strong influence on us. it is amazing how certain songs can give me goosebumps and others do nothing for me. recently, i have been paying more attention to the words of various songs and i am just blown away by the meanings within them!! | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 3:05:34 AM | ^^^^ Terrific post, Panda. I agree that today it would be virtually impossible to successfully prosecute a musician or other artist for any negative influence their music or art might be supposed to have had. I can't say I would be particularly pleased if any artist was successfully prosecuted in this way. I would be horrified to see someone escape responsibility for a crime because they successfully claimed that "the diva made me do it" or something like that. Legally, such a thing would be impossible to prove and perhaps that is a good thing.
Moral responsibility is an entirely different thing and, as we all know, it is entirely possible to be in every way legally correct but not at all morally correct. For that reason, I admit that I don't mind seeing someone take artists to task in court every so often because it does call attention to the fact that the influence and power that musicians and artists of every sort have -- potentially at least -- is not something to be taken lightly. What amazes me is that people fail to recognize and acknowledge this power -- despite the fact that it has long been considered a truism by many that "the pen is mightier than the sword", all too few realize that the power of the pen may be so much greater when it is aided by the power of music. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:09:22 AM | You are correct. Musicians have God given gifts. We should never use those gifts carelessly.
Its amazing what comes out of the radio waves..and where the next generation is headed. I have no tolerance for gangsta rape shit, and its sad that our children hum those tunes. I am not slamming hip hop by any means, but honestly, if I had a record contract and airplay, I would much rather use it to better society and help.
Point in case, Bob Geldof...remember the 80s live aid...hes still at it. Q3...every 3 seconds, someone dies of hunger. thats a cold reality. So he continues to combat it with concerts.
He deserves more credit, even though hes an 80s has- been to most people...
Im an Alice Cooper fan myself...and he pushed the limits for his time, but even the Coop has returned to his baptist roots and turned down the blood show...music has to be responsible. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:20:33 PM | I read a theolgy offering once that actually stated that before the great Deluge (flood)
music was dominantly played in major keys!!! What is That!!
On a more founded theory, NASA sent some guys in the 70s to measure vibratrions within the solar system (because they realized that all of our planets are actively vibratring) when they finally graphed it all out, they had the Cb major scale exactly, when the results were organized in such a way...soundwaves. There theories went further and exclaimed that approx 4000 years previous, the scxale was likely a perfect C major...ok...spooky...speculative, but you know music was always on the Creators mind...Satan himself was the chief choir director before he defected. That is written. something to ponder. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:00:22 PM | | Unfortunately jayman, my daughter listens to the hip hop (gansta rap), but we also live in an area where it's a reality~~every day. Can't even walk through a local park if you have the "wrong" colors on without fearing for your life. I'm hoping she learns something from it, if you see where I'm going with this~~ That it "ain't all that", is what I'm trying to say, I guess.... >? | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:07:10 PM | | You have a good point and youre right...but I dont want my 6 year old humming out tunes that glorify pimpdom and other lifestyles that are somehow deemed acceptable just because the radio said it was ok. | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:12:44 PM | And I wish you all success. Obviously you love your daughter and you wont let her go astray.
I ve dialed up Joe Cartoon for my six year old and he laughs and knows that it is a pretend world and that people cant really act that way (and we have 2 gerbils heee heee) I just fear that media often dictates the norm, and wehat medis says seems to dictate what is acceptable . And its not acceptable to nurture ideas of demeaning women or getting revenge or well you know.... | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:16:06 PM | I found out once you send your kids off to school it's very hard to "protect" them the way you'd like to or are used to... I even stayed home for 8 years, but that didn't keep them completely out of trouble.. I think she realizes the difference between the "music" and "reality"..... I sure hope so, anyway... But it's hard to protect your kids once they're out in the "world".  | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:20:28 PM | | Ok. Im humbled . I grew up on Nugent and Ozzy, and I remember my dad threatening my life if he heard Double live Gonzo one more time. Youre right...its rock n roll..its fantasy...its good for a pissed off 14 year old to find solice in media...we are all responsible for our actions...I know I cant go to work and say that if anyone wants to get mellow they can get the f**k out of here...and that Satans sitting here hes smiling...ok. I grew up on Alice Cooper...who had single handedly frightened every baptist of his day...but it was a joke and we all got it...just vaudeville...only Clint Eastwood can kill an entire town...we all know wed go to jail for 1000 years. I stand corrected...but still .... | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:27:10 PM | But look at Alice Cooper these days, or Ted Nugent---Family men, straight shooters.. In fact, I think I just saw Alice Cooper golfing in Monterey last year~~~~ Who would have imagined, huh>? I guess my point is that it's a "fantasy world", it's not something you HAVE to live. You can feel it, but I don't think it means you have to live it. I'm sure there are many kids ((and adults)) who do that, but I really think they had problems waaay before they ever heard the music...
It sounds like you're a good dad, and I don't think you'll have problems... I learned to "talk" to my kids at a very young age, and try to tell them a little bit at a time---regarding what life is really about~~ I don't want them living in some dream world, because life isn't always kind. I'm sure that sounds cruel, but I don't think it is. Maybe I learned it in the 70's when my parents got involved in the "Tough Love" program.... | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/8/2006 10:45:51 PM |
You are correct. Musicians have God given gifts.
Utter horse excrement!!!!!!!!!!
Musicians are people that found something they LOVE and are willing to WORK tirelessly for LITTLE money for something that means more then life to them! BITEME you friggin morons that think god makes musicians. LOVE and HARD WORK makes musicians | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/9/2006 12:46:44 AM |
BITEME you friggin morons that think god makes musicians. LOVE and HARD WORK makes musicians
Chill out, pal. All the guy said was that musicians have God given gifts. Noone is denying that it takes hard work to be a good musician. What's your problem? | |
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| The power of music
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:02:50 AM | | When you are out there making a living as a musician and someone at every gig tells you..."you are so lucky to be GIVEN your talent".....yep...I am sure engineers hear something similar too! | |
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