|
|
|
|
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 2:37:06 AM | | My point is, prejudices wont go away... And BRAINIAC im talking about laws. All of us are equal under the law...Now whether people treat others kindly or not, thats their decision...Thats what people dont get...In a free country, we are allowed to think the way we want, whether it be racist or not. Now if you drag that to the work place, its illegal. Its funny, but the whole world practically hates america...That is a prejudice in its self...Yes we can stand here complaining about how much eveyone hates us and use it as an excuse to stop traveling, or we can be men and women about it and get on with our lives..(and if your a bad president, go kill people with the excuse)... Its funny, but when someone posts about racism....EVERYONE IS AGAINST IT...NO one posts for it, but it must be STILL running strong...Someone posted about multirace couples and everyone was for it. Im not REALLY sure if racism is that strong a supressor anymore or if the black people just BELIEVE that its still there. A great movie to watch is CRASH.... The one charater to focus on is the black boy that is so up in arms about everything that is wrong against blacks...Plus its just a great movie. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 2:42:26 AM | | I guess my WHOLE point was, that we all have prejudices against us...Even being white we do...black, chinese, mexican, european, but its how you allow those prejudices to affect you in your life. Let them drag you down, or live your life like you know you can...As a free individual, able to make any decission you want. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 5:14:50 AM | | Shore is that is the case, then why should we be made to feel guilty about slavery and what happened 100's of years ago...We didn't do it. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 5:27:02 AM | | No we didn`t do the crap personally that was done 100`s of years ago but we are responsible for how we act now. The worst prevailiant theme is " Don`t say it but you can think it all you want" I think not. If everyone looked after what was in their sphere of influence the world wouldn`t need an excuse. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:40:14 AM | The only one that can make you feel anything is yourself..
Seriously If you overreact to what people say on a chat forum you need to look at yourself not the person causing you to react. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:54:11 AM |
I find it insulting that black people want to point out alleged racism so much but never once have I seen one offer graditude for the countless white people from John Brown to Union soldiers to civil rights workers in the 60s who were killed trying to win freedom for blacks
Why should you feel insulted - what did you do?
By the way, the names of several white civil rights wokers are enscribed on the Civil Rights Memorial - I see that as thanks, don't you?
My comments were directed to this post.
As for your comments: This entire thread is talking about racism and what happened 1000's of years ago, when Jesus was portrayed as a white man. It is a thread designed to make people feel guilty IMHO.
I don't think my comment was an over reaction at all, just a statement of fact. I am not responsible for slavery, nor am I responsible for Christ being viewed as a White man. If the OP is upset then he and the people that believe like him need to make an effort to correct things, I don't think starting an angry thread about it is the way to accomplish that. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:54:46 AM | Ding...ding...ding...and we have a winner.
I do not understand why people were so defensive to Sprada's remarks (noting they were a bit over-the-top).
That is good advice, I have overreacted on numerous occassions, and often (speaking only of myself) it is because someone has struck a chord.
Anyhow...
As I have said before in this thread, and back on topic, I do not think that it is overly suprising that the Church has portrayed Jesus as white, it reflects to power make up of the church through history, especially in the time when many of the great art works depicting Jesus were commissioned. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/9/2006 10:32:24 AM | As I have said before in this thread, and back on topic, I do not think that it is overly suprising that the Church has portrayed Jesus as white, it reflects to power make up of the church through history, especially in the time when many of the great art works depicting Jesus were commissioned.
**********************************************************************
Jesus would be on America`s most wanted terrorist poster | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 2:55:27 AM | "I do not understand why people were so defensive to Sprada's remarks (noting they were a bit over-the-top)."
Maybe because they were a bit over the top about a topic white people are TIRED of arguing for. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 5:13:47 AM | That is the strangest thing, I am white, yet I don't get tired arguing about something so blatently wrong, and still thriving in today's culture.
Are you tired about arguing over it? | |
|
| |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 6:18:55 AM | "seems a wasta time to me, as well"
Perhaps you can expand your opinion as to why discussing racism, being aware of it and addressing it in the appropriate situation is a waste of time? | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 6:36:41 AM | Brain,
In an appropriate situation it's fine. Yet I am tired of all the yelling about things that shouldn't be hollered about.
You hear about racial profiling, and I am sure it happens in areas that it shouldn't. But if you are in a city that is predominatly black, to suspect that a criminal is black is just law of averages, not profiling.
To make statements like "You don't like me because I am black" when chances are they are just obnoxious.
I applied for a job at the hospital. I called a few days later to see what was going on with my app. I was told at that time "Honey if your not black or Mexican, you might as well forget it". This statement was made by a Black woman.
So racism is not just directed at Blacks. There is also the fact that you can have a "Black Nurses Association" and a "Mexican Nurses Association" but you can NOT have a "White Nurses Association" I find that people only want to apply the term Racist to the White portion of the population. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 7:20:06 AM | Serious...
I would like for you to cite the legislation, or government bill that indicates that you cannot have a "White Nurses Association". I suspect you will not find any such legislation.
Your comment ---- "In an appropriate situation it's fine. Yet I am tired of all the yelling about things that shouldn't be hollered about."
Maybe you can explain to me when it is inappropriate to discuss racism? I have never advocated yelling about anything on these threads, and it does grow tiring to read peoples opinions expressed in child like ways. But on the other hand, I cannot imagine when it would be inappropriate to discuss issues of race and racism and how they are still prevelant problems in todays society.
But what you will see more commonly on these threads is people denying racism is still a serious issue, minimizing the issue, claiming that its the racialized groups own fault because of the way they act, etc. It is almost frightening the amount of energy that non-minorities spend claiming that everything is okay.
On that note, I was once in that particular group, and would have likely been arguing for and with many of the posters I have taken issue with, including yourself. However, becoming involved with my fiance opened my eyes to a view of things that I had not seen before.
For example, when we were shopping and she was the only black person in the store, and when she went to try on some outfits, she was the only person told to leave her bags at the counter before entering the change area. At the exact same time three other women (all white) were in the change rooms with their bags. My jaw was slacked...when I picked it back up I asked why she had to leave her bags at the counter. The response was store policy...I pointed at the 3 other women...the response then became, we have been having problems with theft...I pointed at the 3 other women...the response turned to 'we have been having problems with theft with her type.'
Unfortunately that scenario has played itself out at least 12 - 15 times in the 3 years we have been together, in different cities, provinces, and states. My fiance didn't get upset by the behaviour, and I couldn't understand why...her response "I've just gotten used to it, it is normal." My head almost popped off. How do you get used to that sort of treatment. I humored myself and talked to her older and younger sister, and they both said the same thing..."It happens so much you stop noticing."
Well I guess I must be wierd, but I will not get used to that type of behaviour. Initially I was angry with these people, and called them out on their bigotry; I was the angry guy we both agreed serves no effective purpose. However, thankfully I am not like that any more, and I try to illustrate my points with well thought out comments when situations arise that call for them.
You also stated that "You hear about racial profiling, and I am sure it happens in areas that it shouldn't. But if you are in a city that is predominatly black, to suspect that a criminal is black is just law of averages, not profiling."
I hate claiming statistics when I don't have the sources handy, but unfortunately my seminar notes from a couple of classes I took are currently boxed up somewhere in my apartment, so please bear with me.
Let us assume for a moment that the city, or area which populates a jail is prodomenantly black. If the jail is populated by prodomenantly black inmates, then we probably agree that there is not a problem.
Now, if you look at statistics from Canadian prisons, there is an entirely different picture. Blacks and Aboriginals make up such an enormous % of the jail population they would be required to constitute nearly 9/10 of the civilian population in and around every major jail. That unfortunately is not the case. Toronto for example (and this is from memory, so I appologize for not having the source) is constituted of approximately 13 - 15% black peoples. Yet if you look at the police reports and jail rates they represent somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-85% of the prison population. As a matter of fact, the most over-represented person in Canadian prisons are Aboriginal Women.
In Kingston, Ontario, the police began a project to attempt to determine if officers acted on raical biases when making stops. They were to track things such as colour / age / sex / reason etc...for making stops. This was an effort to determine whether police acted on sound reasons, or racial prejudices. Many police forces were against this project, as they were worried about the conclusions. The report indicated that racial profiling, and assumptions based on race were used more often then sound decision making when making random stops.
Stats also indicate that when 'young white males' are stopped randomly, there is a higher per/capita rate of criminal behaviour then 'young minority males' are so similarily stopped (drug offences being the most noticable)...yet the majority of stops made by police are dealing with 'young minority males' because of the stereotypes surrounding gang violence, drug use, etc. If police spent all their time looking for criminals in suberbia as opposed to the ghetto I think you would find some interesting results. Crime exists everywhere, you only find it where you look.
You also stated that "To make statements like "You don't like me because I am black" when chances are they are just obnoxious."
Depends on the context, sometimes people are being obnoxious, and other they are the victims of the behaviour they accuse other of.
Your last statement "So racism is not just directed at Blacks."
No, your right, North American has a new favorite target that we have decided to direct are attention at...the Middle Eastern person. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 8:35:10 AM | I would like for you to cite the legislation, or government bill that indicates that you cannot have a "White Nurses Association". I suspect you will not find any such legislation.
Laws against segregation pretty much put an end to anything that remotely hinted at being white. Do a search on the net for a *white nurses association* then do a search for the same under black, mexican or asian. Or for that matter pick whatever group you would like.
But what you will see more commonly on these threads is people denying racism is still a serious issue, minimizing the issue, claiming that its the racialized groups own fault because of the way they act, etc. It is almost frightening the amount of energy that non-minorities spend claiming that everything is okay.
I never said that racism is caused by the people that are claiming it.
I am saying that there are times that some play the *race* card when it isn't viable. And to attempt to excuse all the actions because of what they have been through is naive I think.
Now, if you look at statistics from Canadian prisons, there is an entirely different picture. Blacks and Aboriginals make up such an enormous % of the jail population they would be required to constitute nearly 9/10 of the civilian population in and around every major jail. That unfortunately is not the case. Toronto for example (and this is from memory, so I appologize for not having the source) is constituted of approximately 13 - 15% black peoples. Yet if you look at the police reports and jail rates they represent somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-85% of the prison population. As a matter of fact, the most over-represented person in Canadian prisons are Aboriginal Women.
I really know nothing of the Canadian prision system, yet if what you are stating is correct, then definately something needs to be done.
I did notice that you made no comment on my inability to get a job due to the color of my skin and the fact that it wasn't brown.
I, like you, have dated people that would not be considered the same color as I am. I also became very aware of the stares and comments. I also was aware that he only wanted to be in areas that were predominatly white to *flaunt* the fact that he was with me. This was a statement that he made.
Racism is across the board, do you not think if I were to drive down to Detroit and go into a resturant that had all black customers and workers, I wouldn't get looks and comments?
I use to do home inspections for insurance, and would always be given a very difficult time when I went into a black neighborhood to do my job. I was aware I was being judged by the color of my skin.
As for when it is inappropriate to discuss it.
That would be when it obviously isn't the case but is being used as a trump card.
I don't feel, and again it is only my opinion. That Jesus was portrayed as a white man to put down the black man, I just think since painting and such were done after his death, people tended to do a rendering of what the percieved him to be. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 9:01:00 AM | Your quote "Laws against segregation pretty much put an end to anything that remotely hinted at being white. Do a search on the net for a *white nurses association* then do a search for the same under black, mexican or asian. Or for that matter pick whatever group you would like."
KKK.
Your quote "I never said that racism is caused by the people that are claiming it."
Notice that I addressed the threads in general, not you in particular.
Your quote "And to attempt to excuse all the actions because of what they have been through is naive I think."
Where has any poster tried to excuse all actions of any minority.
Your quote "I did notice that you made no comment on my inability to get a job due to the color of my skin and the fact that it wasn't brown."
Why did I need to comment on this issue, it spoke for itself. Racism of any type is wrong, including the behaviour that you experienced.
Your quote "I, like you, have dated people that would not be considered the same color as I am. I also became very aware of the stares and comments. Your quote "I also was aware that he only wanted to be in areas that were predominatly white to *flaunt* the fact that he was with me."
Does that somehow excuse the behaviour that you experienced? Do his motives somehow explain stares and comments...perhaps you can explain how his motives affected the outcome, especially when (unless the people are psychic) those making the comments and stares would be in all likelyenss been unaware of his motives.
Your quote "Racism is across the board, do you not think if I were to drive down to Detroit and go into a resturant that had all black customers and workers, I wouldn't get looks and comments?"
I am sure you would. In fact I have been on the receiving end of comments from Black & Indian people for dating my fiance (she is often mistaken as being Indian), I condem that behaviour in the same way.
Your quote "I use to do home inspections for insurance, and would always be given a very difficult time when I went into a black neighborhood to do my job. I was aware I was being judged by the color of my skin."
Now I am curious, what should stop someone from accusing you of playing the 'race' card. How is it that you know those people don't have a dislike for insurance companies and their employees in general? How do we know you are not using 'a trump card'. [See how easy it is for someone to question legitimate experiences merely because they do not like the implications.]
Your quote "That Jesus was portrayed as a white man to put down the black man, I just think since painting and such were done after his death, people tended to do a rendering of what the percieved him to be."
I agree, I doubt that Jesus was portrayed as white in an effort to supress the Black man. However, as I have said before, the power players in church and society at the time most of the original art was commissioned were white. Thus it does not seem to large a stretch to imagine their biases played a role. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 10:11:39 AM | Does that somehow excuse the behaviour that you experienced? Do his motives somehow explain stares and comments...perhaps you can explain how his motives affected the outcome, especially when (unless the people are psychic) those making the comments and stares would be in all likelyenss been unaware of his motives.
It does not excuse the behaviour, and I wasnt' attempting to, but I was pointing out that in your face attitudes also don't gain what you want, and that is what kind of attitude that he had. And Yes he in only one and you can't condemn everyone for one persons actions. I was just making a point.
As for why you should comment on what happened to me, is because I felt (only my opinion) that what I was saying about being discriminated against due to being white was being down played with your last line in that post.
Now I am curious, what should stop someone from accusing you of playing the 'race' card. How is it that you know those people don't have a dislike for insurance companies and their employees in general? How do we know you are not using 'a trump card'. [See how easy it is for someone to question legitimate experiences merely because they do not like the implications.
There is nothing to stop someone from accusing me of it. Other then the fact that I continued to do my job and didn't say ....oh I can't go there because they don't like me. The only jobs I refused were in high crime rate areas, being a single woman I felt that it was silly to purposely put myself out there as a target.
I agree, I doubt that Jesus was portrayed as white in an effort to supress the Black man. However, as I have said before, the power players in church and society at the time most of the original art was commissioned were white. Thus it does not seem to large a stretch to imagine their biases played a role.
I'm not sure I agree with your concenses that the power players were white . Definately lighter skined then the original black men and women of that time. Yet wasn't most of the original art work done in Italy? And Italians are of a swarthier complexion then what we normally consider white.
Now on that point I could be wrong, and I do agree that most people are generally more comfortable with people of their own racial make up. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 10:44:36 AM | Your quote:
"It does not excuse the behaviour, and I wasnt' attempting to, but I was pointing out that in your face attitudes also don't gain what you want, and that is what kind of attitude that he had."
We agree on the fact that aggressive attitudes do little to affect change or understanding when it comes to sensitive issues, politics and relegion are two obvious examples. However, based on you obvious intelligence (your posts are often well thought out and worded) I imagine you realize the situation that you are using to illustrate this point is probably not the most effective.
The reason I say that the analogy is not effective is simple. Imagine he did not have those intentions when going out to places with you, the net effect not have been altered - stares / comments would have happened.
A better analogy would be looking at the posts of somone like Sprada and comparing them to John L. Sprada tends to be aggressive and over assertive in his conclusions, whereas John L. employs civility and well thought out arguments. (The thread that I meant John L in was deleted, not sure why though). I would always advocate for the 'mature' approach, regardless with whether or not the anger is justified. Like the saying goes 'you catch more flies with honey, then with vinager.'
Your quote:
"what I was saying about being discriminated against due to being white was being down played with your last line in that post."
If that was the impression, my appologies. I would not condone any form of racism or discrimination, no matter who the is the victim.
Your quote:
"There is nothing to stop someone from accusing me of it. Other then the fact that I continued to do my job and didn't say ....oh I can't go there because they don't like me."
Two questions come to mind. Would you have been wrong to tell your supervisor that you did not feel comfortable travelling to those homes because of the way you were treated. I think you would have been completely within your rights to refuse work, especially if the treatment consisted of verbal attacks.
Are you implying that women and men of minorities use the "oh I can't go there because they don't like" type reason to avoid work. It would seem to be implied by your quote. I will give you the chance to clarify your comment, because I doubt that is what you intended. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/10/2006 2:49:41 PM | It appears that we pretty much agree on most things so the only part that I am going to comment on is the following.
I do appreciate the fact that you didn't jump the gun, and I can see where you might misunderstand what I ment.
Are you implying that women and men of minorities use the "oh I can't go there because they don't like" type reason to avoid work. It would seem to be implied by your quote. I will give you the chance to clarify your comment, because I doubt that is what you intended.
It was in reference to playing a trump card, or for those black/white/purple/green, that have found a way to try and make society responsible for their woes.
Some with due cause, some just lazy, and that my friend is across all colors. Being an employer I have hired both blacks and whites for my business. If I were going to judge according to the people I have hired. I would say the worst ones I had were young white males with a record. Yet I continue to give everyone a chance.
I think we have probably beat this poor dead horse untill we have reached an understanding of each other....*tipping my hat to you, it has been enjoyable* | |
|
chinua
|
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 95 | |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/13/2006 10:03:56 PM | | i just read an interesting book.......called 'witnesses to war' . stories about kids(jewish, romani, polish) who lived through WW2 in europe.....including anne frank. one of the stories was about a little polish boy(hitler hated poles, even though we would consider them white); taken away from his parents.the nazi's thought he looked german enough to be adopted into a german family. what kept him going?.......a picture of a black madonna that a nun had given him.....he felt she kept him alive..........maybe sparda could be wrong about all white people? | |
|
chinua
|
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 96 | |
| |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/23/2006 5:06:53 AM | | this discussion is really pathetic, first of all MAN was made in gods image,GOD created MAN and were all gods children,now the bible says JESUS had bronze skin and hair like sheeps wool,yes i believe this to be true,is EGYPT not in AFRICA?,if any one on this site knows what color GOD is send me a pic, from what i read MAN could'nt even lay eyes on GOD without loosing his sight go ahead read it in your bible, futher more GOD gave his ONLY begotten son to die for our sins OUR sins not your sins or his sins but our sins, so no matter how much we bicker about color we all will have to face him when the time comes and lets see what he has to say about his CHILDREN bickering about something so little when we ought to be trying to do gods work and try to walk the path of god helping others,not giving in to evil, now im not the one to judge because id be the biggest hypocrit on here we all sin so we all gotta bear that weight, we all have our veiws but that does'nt mean we all have to agree with eachother, sparda i respect you and your veiws and i do agree with some but we have many cultures on this site that have different beliefs should we look down on them? i think any one who throws stones at ppl{insults or whatever} are no better than the ppl who crucified jesus for what he placed his faith in and he still asked GOD to forgive them for they know not what they do,for what ever color some of you choose to believe-GOD is LOVE and LOVE is colorblind. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/23/2006 6:18:03 AM | ineedluv
The first post you make in this thread is:
"this discussion is really pathetic"
One would hope you explain why the discussion is pathetic, but you do not. Instead, you explain your interpretation of the bible, and the will of God. Ironically you claim certain facts of the bible, yet you fail to provide to passages supporting those claims.
You then go onto state that:
"now im not the one to judge because id be the biggest hypocrit on here"
Well given the very first sentence you wrote about the discussion in this thread it would appear you ARE one to judge, and by your own definition that would make you a hypocrit. I would like for you to take a minute, and explain what was so pathetic about this thread. | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:25:41 AM | | whats up mr brian hows life? well first of all the thread is not pathetic but alot of these post are,when grown men & women argue over what color is god you tell me whats so smart about that? everyone has a right to their own opinion but dont try and force beliefs on someone thats really pathetic | |
|
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/23/2006 3:18:56 PM | | I don't mind if Jesus was black. If it turned out he was French (unlikely France didn't exist yet), now that would be bad. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 