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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:21:48 PM | After reading all the post on this thread I have to share my views.
Jesus is everywhere, and can be anything of any form. He can be the homeless person walkin down the street on ur way home, he can be the the white man standing in line at the local soup line, and he can be the black man standing in the elevator that ur using. He is everywhere.
No one and I will repeat that no one knows what Jesus' image is. I dont have my bible handy, but it states that to see him would blind u. No one will know until he comes back to take all of the real believers home.
Real believers= persons that have him in thier heart, and believe that he is the alpha and the omega, no matter if ur a christian or islamic, or mormon, or budist. That is my take on what it takes to see our maker one day. And yes I also believe that Jesus, God, and the holy spirit are 3 as one.
I also think that there are still racist out there, not near as many as there use to be, but they run in all different colors. Whites, blacks, asians, latins, they all have prejudices. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/25/2006 10:04:52 AM | Wonka:
Even saying "most" is a broad sweeping statement.
To some extint I agree. However,just as you say you believe most are not, even though you yourself claim not to "hang out in churches and such"and do not claim to be of an ethnic minority in the USA,in the opinion of the OP most are. You both are equally entitled to your opinions. You stated "I'm sure this guy has encountered racism", so you must see that because you consider yourself "caucasion"this statement ;"but, from my experience, most white people are not racist", is much like a man saying "from my experience, most men are not cheaters" in response to a woman saying most are.
People who consider themselves "racially pure" are misguided.
On this we agree.As you stated in another post "races are somewhat arbitrary distinctions".I'll go further,this concept of "race" most often used in the USA is based upon ignorance. It is a SOCIAL construct. Genetically it does not exist in terms of its dominant use in the USA and Canada. Btw,as to your post 177 again we pretty much agree.
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/25/2006 10:52:04 AM | The "not hanging out in churches" comment was in regard to Christianity only, not caucasians in general. Perhaps, like I said, living in California, my perception is skewed. It may be that racism in the South and Midwest is far more prevalent than I realize. I tend to doubt that, but I must admit, I've never been there. I can only base that on people from the south and Midwest who I've met here. It may be that they are unrepresentative of the attitude in the South and Midwest in general. I hope not. I really don't need my opinion of the human race to drop yet another notch- LOL.
"so you must see that because you consider yourself "caucasion""
Well, I don't really. Like we both agree, these distinctions are more social constructs than genetic. As far as recent heritage, I'm Italian, French Canadian, Lithuanian, Dutch, Algonquin Indian and who knows what else. Go back far enough, and I certainly have African in me as well.
"from my experience, most white people are not racist", is much like a man saying "from my experience, most men are not cheaters" in response to a woman saying most are."
I don't think that's a valid analogy, because, in reality, PEOPLE are cheaters, almost irrespective of gender. I really don't think, in a state of nature, that humans tended to mate faithfully for life. Both men AND women have a biological imperative to be sexually polygenous. It may very well be that the causation of that tendency is slightly different between genders- men for diffusion of genetic material, women for an imperative to "upgrade," but, regardless of such speculation, the statistics show that men AND women cheat in significant numbers.
It seems we are mostly in agreement Marathon, just a slight disagreement on whether or not the poster was being racist himself in his statement. I just have an extreme dislike for sweeping generalizations about groups of people; I'm sure you can appreciate that given the subject matter at hand. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/25/2006 2:30:39 PM | Marathon:
Oh please,if you found the comment innaprpriate or rude TOUGH!:laugh: If in YOUR mind you interpreted the comment to be a directive...TOUGH!:laugh: Your interpretation of my comment is ridiculously childish,hypocritically arrogant taken out of context and overly sensitive. However,if you feel that way....TOUGH!:laugh: :laugh:
It is innapropriate to bark orders at people in a thread like you can command them to silence. You refer to me as sensitive and yet you feel the need to use the word "tough" in capitol letters and exclamation points after every sentence, add little mocking cartoon characters, and insult me about half a dozen times. And you call me childish? Look, I'm not going to argue with you about this again.
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I believe an unbiased,non defensive, intelligent person would read the wording and see at LEAST the possibility and based upon compositional usage;PROBABILITY that the wording indicates "they" refers to the "most" he began his statement about.
As far as my position that he was making a blanket generalization, if you actually read what I wrote I went on to explain that even if he did actually mean just "most" its still an irrational position regardless.
Here is what I actually said: He started by saying "most" and then quickly changed his wording to "they" which is a blanket generalization. Even using "most" rather than "they", its still an irrational presumption. He doesn't know what "most" or "all" non-black people think, he just arrogantly presumes. People are not racial collectives, or even "mostly" racial collectives. They are individuals and should only be judged on their individual merits. The letter of an argument is not so important as the spirit and direction of it in the first place.
And here is what you quoted: He started by saying "most" and then quickly changed his wording to "they" which is a blanket generalization. You deliberately ommitted everything I said except for the first sentence, effectively changing the meaning of what I said and taking it out of context.
On this we agree.As you stated in another post "races are somewhat arbitrary distinctions".I'll go further,this concept of "race" most often used in the USA is based upon ignorance. It is a SOCIAL construct.
Obviously, I also agree with this. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/25/2006 3:03:24 PM | Marathon, I have some questions for you:
(1) Is it your position that nothing in the original OP's post was racist?
(2) I'm just curious. Is it your position that I have attacked the OP? I asked you this one before and you never answered.
(3) Do you feel that the OP is being consistantly attacked in this thread and could you site examples (in quotes) of said attacks? I read through the thread and I did not see any personal attacks against the OP (although I could have missed them). | |
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| Anti-Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/25/2006 11:52:45 PM | A true beliver would not even stop to consider the color of Christ. If his spirit truly lives within you the color of his skin would not matter. Christ died on the cross for all of our sins. God created all men equal. Man added racism. MY GOD, the one I worship is not white,black or any other color. He is all of them because HE created them all.The actual picture that man created is not important to me. The important thing is that I love each man, woman,and child as he does. Here is something that everyone should try. When you kneel and pray. Close your eyes and see what color Jesus is. I assure you that you wont see a color at all.
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/26/2006 12:19:03 AM |
There are alot of sources that prove that the original biblical doctrines had come from black African people (the original hebrews).
In answer to your question, No, it would not change my beliefs. It really doesn't matter.
I am, however, curious to see where these sources are. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/26/2006 5:57:50 PM | I just saw an interesting story on the History channel about a tribe, The Lembas, in Africa that claims to be one of the lost tribes of Israel.
Apparently through DNA evidence they have been able to show that these people, migrated FROM Israel to Africa.
Apparently these people have claimed for a long time that they one of the lost tribes. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/26/2006 7:14:27 PM | | Well, they gotta be out there somewhere. I also believe that some of the Ethiopians claim descent to the ten tribes also...But then we have some christian groups claiming the Brits and US are desecendants of Mannaseh and Ephraim... | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 1/28/2006 7:19:01 PM | But then we have some christian groups claiming the Brits and US are desecendants of Mannaseh and Ephraim
The difference between the Lemba and Falasha(also the Amharic and Tigrinya)and wacko christian groups is that there is factual, credible evidence that shows the link. This evidence is Biblical,historical(independent of Bible),Linguistic and genetic. Most Isrealis agree about the Falasha link and most have knowledge of the Amharic and Tigrinya......its a matter of common fact and sense. The Lemba "evidence"however is more news worthy. In that there is this "genetic"(I quote because I am VERY uncomfortable with the use of genetics in ethnicity)evidence to go along with many cutural links..... Some linguistic links...oral tradition...and the Great Zimbabwe. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/24/2006 12:08:03 AM | Firstly Jesus was jewish and lived in the holy lands of whats now palestine/isreal. So he would have had black hair and an olive skin. Point is even he wouldnt care. It was his message not his image that is important.
You do have a point in that european christians created a jesus with white skin and either blonde or light brown hair.
If they found his bones and proved he was black? I would find it interesting and I, like you would look to see what morons decide to change their beliefs because of their racism.
You do get a lot of flak in your posts and threads, some of which you deserve and some which is just crap. But I do accept that while you might come up with some pretty nasty ideas they do get people thinking. I dont know what its like where you live. I have never been there but I can tell you that what people are like over there is nothing like what they are over here.
There are a lot of ignorant people in the world and no doubt you have met more than your fair share of them out there. But please dont think the racists out there represent all white people. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/24/2006 1:20:44 AM | Wow what a thread, I love it. White people? Black People? Gimme a break...
OK OK so there was this White Preacher and this black Peacher and their both heading down the road argueing back and forth about what race God is. The White Preacher is saying, "you know brother, God loves everybody the same and does'nt look at the color of a mans skin but he judges the heart, but i tell you Gods White!" And the Black Preacher is saying "You know I agree with you but I just happen to have confirmed it in the scriptures that God i s Black."
So they drive happily down the road keeping their good natured arguement alive with scriptural references and pleasant platitudes when this big semi-truck comes along and creams their car sending them both instantly to heaven.
So as the Black Preacher and the White Preacher walk arm and arm to the pearly gates still debating back and forth...Gods White Gods Black thie big booming voice comes out of heaven and say..
"HOLA AMIGOS, WELCOME TO HEAVEN SENOR'S!" (WHAT? YOU DIDN'T KNOW GOD WAS MEXICAN?) | |
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j-mix
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Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 140 | |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/24/2006 8:21:13 AM | I am aware that most whites and other non-blacks get highly defensive when it comes to light that the one known as "Jesus" was a black man.
there are nubian people in this region. i so them by my own eyes.
they are more balck then sprada7.
it means that it is possible for a jesus to be black.
however majority of population was arabic like.
that's why i beleive that jesus was brown.
P.S. sprada, why you are such a racist? | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/24/2006 4:26:27 PM | If it were the case that Jesus was black, then no I would have no problem with Jesus being black. But He wasn't. He was middle eastern. Sure, that's a lot closer to black than some of the paintings you see with the brown haired, pale skinned Jesus, but saying He was black...well that's just silly. He probably resembled the guy from Lost (Sayid, I think is his name) more than either Max Von Sydow or Mario Van Peebles (didn't he play Jesus once?)
I have no doubt that many Biblical people were of various skin colors, though. It's been theorized that antedeluvian people (that would be people between Adam and Noah) had the genetic possibilities for every kind of physical makeup, and that Noah's own sons probably looked like all different races. And if you think about that, it's probably pretty true. They say that today with so much interracial marrying, the human race is just going to look like one big hodgepodge of people and no one will be able to tell what race they were from. I'm guessing that is how we started out as well. If we could go back in a time machine and see Noah's family we probably would think they were all adopted with all the different "racial" characteristics they would likely have. I believe the Bible itself even describes one of Noah's sons having dark skin and another having red hair. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/25/2006 11:50:49 AM | i still say Gods a Mexican cause them people will work hard seven days a week at jobs nobody else wants to do and then have to take the blame for alot of stuff they didn't do...
yup... i mean i haven't asked God but i'm sure he'd claim it... or maybe Phillipino... cause them folks make the best health care workers and you never hear about elder abuse in their old folks homes...
now, i'm pretty sure God's not a creol mix like my family because he'd never claim to have psychic abilities he didn't have or eat any of our murderously spicy hot seafood gumbo.
and i'm pretty sure Gods not white because he's not afraid of becoming the next minority.
and Gods not black mainly because he wouldn't want to have to go around telling everybody that he's black.
Actually though you know i'm prety sure in color Gods 'clear' cause i really can't see him even though i know he's there ... but sometimes when my eyes defocus a bit I can kind of see him... you know, for a second or so... | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/27/2006 11:36:04 AM | | I'm sorry but this has got to be about the silliest thread. Its the content of a man's mind, the nature of his intentions, and the consequences of his actions that determine his humanity. Not the color of his skin. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 3/27/2006 12:01:17 PM | Wow, Kitten06.
That is exactly the same post you put in the Creationism Vs Evolution thread. It appears a mod decided to delete it in that thread for some reason.
I don't see how it relates to racism in religion . In fact, it doesn't. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/4/2006 10:50:40 PM | | Notice how the Bible doesn't mention this black/white this color that color stuff the way people do now? Because it doesn't matter! God doesn't judge me based on my color or cultural origin, the country of my birth, what color man I marry, what color my kids are, and so on. If people put as much energy into loving people as they did hating people Lord only knows what kind of world we would live in. One where I don't have to get angry all over again for getting a ticket from a cop for the same thing my white friends get warnings for. One where being a smart black woman doesn't mean I hid something up my sleeve or that affirmative action got me where I am. One where white people aren't shocked to hear that I "speak properly" (and black people for that fact). One where people go to work and school and act like they all get along but talk about other races behind their backs. I'm thankful that MLK and many others fought and died so that I could have the freedom to openly love people of all races. Jesus says to love your neighbor, not your white neighbor or your blak/asian/indian/mexican neighbor. None of that matters. God judges your heart. As for what color Jesus was, I don't know, but the reason we don't know for sure is because it wasn't passed on in history is because it simply doesn't matter. Think if we did know for sure what color He was- people would hate Him the way we all hate eachother; hate people who are different. Since we don't know we can focus on how much He loves us, what He does for us, and how we can live for Him, as opposed to what color He is because no matter what color He is God is the same all the time unchanging. Anyways with all the races on earth Jesus couldn't have been all the races at one time. And that was just His earthly body like we all have earthly bodies. Nothing we have on earth can be taken to Heaven except our souls, the very thing God focuses on, not our color. And thank God for that. He is who I answer to, nobody else, and if it doesn't matter to God it surely doesn't matter to me. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/4/2006 11:03:45 PM |
While I'm not here to answer your question, I am here to say that, as far as I see, Jesus was born from parents who were arabic and thus had to have been of the same skin color as everyone else in the reigon. Though it's impossible to say for certain what his actual skin color is, I'll ask the question with sparda... does it matter? I think hes already said it all. Can somebody answer this question, and the question is "DOES IT MATTER?" | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/4/2006 11:15:00 PM | Jesus Christ was a living human being in history. If you think He is God, then sure you can think of Him as green,blue,pink ,purple, black,white, whatever color. But the point is Jesus was a real human on earth, not a figment of someone's imagination. Not a mythical legend or a mythical god. Therefore, you have to look at it from a historical/geographical/scientific view point. Not from a religious view point.Jesus cannot be black because he was of Arab descent (which is mostly northern Africa and the middle east). Sure you can call him African if you want, but not black. Because of the simple fact that northern Africans like Morrocans and Egyptians do not have black skin. They have olive skin. So, Jesus being black is neither geographically correct nor genetically correct.Use plain logic instead of religion, then you will know.
But then white people are always going to think Jesus was white and black people are always going to think Jesus was black. Same goes for brown,yellow,pink,blue or whatever color people.
When it comes to religion, logic is thrown out the window. It's just sad.Come on people sometimes facts win over sentiments. Look at it from a scientific viewpoint. Is that so hard to do????????? Sheesh....
Also let me ask you something....does it really matter what is the color of your "God's" skin?????Are not people supposed to have undying faith in Him without any clauses and conditions????
~*Flavia*~ | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/6/2006 2:11:06 AM | North africans are many colors. However, you are right about the geographic nature of racial definitions. There is more genetic differentiation within a race than there is between races. There are "negroids" with blond hair and blue eyes and "caucasoids" with very dark black skin. These are obvious contradictions. But the point is that throughout history people have, and still do, believe in these racial definitions. Given that the majority of the population believes in race we have to deal with the misconceptions that have been used, and continue to be used, as tools for oppression. For example, the issue of jesus christ painted as a blue eyed, brown haired, bearded, white man. In an ideal world this image would not matter. But in the world we live in, that is full of people that are: 1. ignorant enough to believe this image is valid or 2. intelligent(diabolical) enough to manipulate people with the misinformation that can be implied with this image, the truth needs to be common knowledge. You may ask now what is wrong with people believing that christ looks like michelangelos uncle. Its like I said before the people that belive this MAY also be manipulated into believing that this justifies mistreating people that do not share these physical characteristics. The image is simply wrong. There is so much negative imagery about african people out there. This is just another thing that needs to be corrected. We have made some strides in eliminating segragation and slavery in the united states but they still exist. In other parts of the world and here as well. Changing the imagery is just one step in the right direction.
If anyone needs sources of my (and much of Prada's) information i will be happy to email you a list of journal articles and books that document the archeological, historical records and also information on the migration of peoples in africa and based on genetics and linguistics... | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/6/2006 2:11:56 AM | North africans are many colors. However, you are right about the geographic nature of racial definitions. There is more genetic differentiation within a race than there is between races. There are "negroids" with blond hair and blue eyes and "caucasoids" with very dark black skin. These are obvious contradictions. But the point is that throughout history people have, and still do, believe in these racial definitions. Given that the majority of the population believes in race we have to deal with the misconceptions that have been used, and continue to be used, as tools for oppression. For example, the issue of jesus christ painted as a blue eyed, brown haired, bearded, white man. In an ideal world this image would not matter. But in the world we live in, that is full of people that are: 1. ignorant enough to believe this image is valid or 2. intelligent(diabolical) enough to manipulate people with the misinformation that can be implied with this image, the truth needs to be common knowledge. You may ask now what is wrong with people believing that christ looks like michelangelos uncle. Its like I said before the people that belive this MAY also be manipulated into believing that this justifies mistreating people that do not share these physical characteristics. The image is simply wrong. There is so much negative imagery about african people out there. This is just another thing that needs to be corrected. We have made some strides in eliminating segragation and slavery in the united states but they still exist. In other parts of the world and here as well. Changing the imagery is just one step in the right direction.
If anyone needs sources of my (and much of sprada's) information i will be happy to email you a list of journal articles and books that document the archeological, historical records and also information on the migration of peoples in africa and based on genetics and linguistics... | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/6/2006 9:56:36 AM | Given that the majority of the population believes in race we have to deal with the misconceptions that have been used, and continue to be used, as tools for oppression. For example, the issue of jesus christ painted as a blue eyed, brown haired, bearded, white man. In an ideal world this image would not matter. But in the world we live in, that is full of people that are: 1. ignorant enough to believe this image is valid or 2. intelligent(diabolical) enough to manipulate people with the misinformation that can be implied with this image, the truth needs to be common knowledge. Good point. Many people are just not going to accept it.
You may ask now what is wrong with people believing that christ looks like michelangelos uncle. Its like I said before the people that belive this MAY also be manipulated into believing that this justifies mistreating people that do not share these physical characteristics. Knowing what we do about Michelangelo, let's hope it was his uncle. | |
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If in YOUR mind you interpreted the comment to be a directive...TOUGH!
