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tekrok
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Joined: 6/28/2006
Msg: 151 | |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 7/6/2006 11:56:05 AM | i think jesus in his time apeared to the people as a middle eastern man, but if you want him to be black , doesnt bother me,brother, its the message that counts. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 2/18/2007 1:31:51 PM | Sparda7:
To say Jesus was black is sac-religious. I suppose you even believe blacks built the pyramids even though egyptologists have found skeletel remains of workers and pharohs inside and they were all caucasoid. It never ceases to amaze me at the nonsense some black people believe. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 2/18/2007 1:47:46 PM | Last I checked, Jesus was a Jew.
And the prevailing prejudice isn't that the only good things come from "white" people. It is that the only good things come from southern Europe, ie. the Graeco-Roman Hellenistic world.
In fact, for a very long time people of Teutonic descent, by which I mean Scandinavians, Dutch, Germans, English, the Franks of France, and the Goths of Spain and Italy, have been taught to look upon their ancestors as lowlife trash.
Christianity has gone a long way in reinforcing this prejudice, as it places all those who never knew Christ or refuse to accept his "free" gift in the same class as subhuman monsters against whom any atrocity is justifiable.
"Black" peoples (talk about ethnic insensitivity), like all people, should look to and take pride in their own indigenous relationship that their ancestors have cultivated with the divine since time immemorial, rather than trying to validate their worth by latching onto something that is not only foreign, but which has proven time and again in it's history to inspire extreme forms of bigotry and to encourage atrocity.
Trying to prove that Africans were the original people of the OT is, with all due respect, as pathetic as people of NW European descent trying to claim that they are the chosen people of the Bible, and hating on everyone else, and especially the Jews as a result.
The Jews ARE the people of the Book, the chosen people of the God of the Book. All of us others are the chosen people of our own God/dess/e/s, who, like our own fathers and mothers and kinfolk, have far more to teach us about ourselves and our history as a people than any foreigners do. No need for us to be hating on each other over nonsense. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 2/18/2007 3:07:32 PM | Why do you bring up race? And why would it matter if Jesus was a black man? The bible says nothing about his skin color. We know that Jesus had "wooly hair" that is all we know. I know Jesus as the Son of God, so it matters not what you say about his decent. And it is believed that there is a black tribe that decended from Jacob (Isreal), but where is the proof? What does it matter anyway? Everyone of different nationalities and even ethnic backgrounds paints Jesus as either black, or dark, or a white anglosaxon... what does it matter?
It wouldn't bother me a bit.... I know who my Father is and I know who my Elder Brother is. The bible says if you see one you have seen the other... Cheers! | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 2/19/2007 7:27:54 AM | Why is it that a bunch of old, dead threads are popping up again all of a sudden? And they all have a common theme? Hmmm...
Anyway. On Jesus' skin color:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/index.html
As far as racism: pfft. People can find any reason to hate anybody. It's nothing new. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/26/2008 7:31:56 PM | | Most of the stories in the bible took place in Africa, but ... here we go...there's no historical evidence that Jesus Christ even existed. PLEASE Do not miss my point here. I'm not arguing that Jesus Christ never existed. In 2000 years, there probably won't be much evidence that Linsay Lohan's 2nd cousin existed either, but I'm almost certain she had one. However, if someone wanted to suggest a skin color for her 2nd cousin, it might be difficult with no confirmed remains to examine. See my point here? | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 5:59:44 AM | The claim that there is "no" historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ is false. There may be "insufficient" evidence for some, but there is not "no" evidence.
Jesus skin colour? Probably olive-skinned, maybe more tanned than that, but neither "white" (that pinkish colour of mainly northern Europeans), nor "black" (that varying shades of dark brown of mainly Southern and Central Africans). Neither gets to claim His skin colour for their own. Too bad. Get over it. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 158 | |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:28:38 AM | ^^ That's right. There's no serious reason to believe, historical evidence of his existence or not, that a first century Palestinian Jew would have looked like a sub-Saharan black African any more so than he would have looked like a Nordic Swede. Both suggestions are "-centric" or outright racialist viewpoints. They in fact have little if anything to do with legit religious belief and everything to do with modern-day personal and/or political agendas.
Blacks and northern Euro-descended whites would probably be rather surprised in fact , more than likely, to see an actual historical man from that time and place much more closely resembling a religious bedouin Muslim for example, than either one of them. These men were likely short, heavily bearded, w/ light olive or suntanned face and arms, robed and shawled, with perhaps a head covering against the sand and wind, they wore sandals and carried staffs and walked about praying or contemplating God throughout the day, and when they rode they rode on mules or donkeys ..... and they avoided contact with pork and with their pagan occupiers like they were the plague in most cases.
Ironically, the bald-headed and pale-faced young Marine in Iraq , of border Scots descent, with the cross around his neck, staring eye-to-eye with some devout Shi'ite he's detaining in Basra or in some Baghdad slum, doesn't realize he's looking at , more than likely, something like what his saviour would have looked like physically. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 12:02:13 PM | Since Europeans abandoned their own religions in favour of Eastern Religions (Asian), there have been many attempts to portray the main characters in those Asian Religions as Europeans. I think that this is mainly because of the general European belief that they (Europeans) are a superior race to Asians or for that matter, any non-white race.
Although many would deny that they harbour such prejudicial feelings, deep down they nonetheless do. The original European religious beliefs were all somewhat savage, full of bloodlust and barbarism in comparison to their older Asian civilisation counterparts. The need to b@stardise or to corrupt the original text of Asian religious philosophies is mainly due to the need to maintain that racial superiority line. After all, you can’t be a superior being if your God or your Saviour is Asian so when the religions were adopted they were also adapted to “fit” in with European culture.
Naturally the integrity of the original Asian Text flies out the window as a direct result of those European adaptations and with the passage of time plus the adding, subtracting and even omitting whole stories, the original scriptures become so corrupted that they morph into solely European beliefs with the original being denigrated to those of “inferior” Asian beliefs.
This is where the “Us” versus “Them” mentality stems from.
Many would be shocked to learn that the God of Torah, Koran or Bible are one in the same God and making such statements as “my God is better than your God” is just plain stupid. How about urinating on the Koran or using it for target practise or as toilet paper when it is in fact an Arabic translation of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible which in turn are translations of the ancient Hebrew Scriptures.
Many Europeans, but more so those residing in the USA, whom are reading this will be seething with anger those in the USA only recognise certain parts of the Asian Super Continent as actually being in Asia. I think it’s that way because of the teachings of Jesus which is the mainstream eastern religious belief adopted and adapted by Europeans.
Asia has a North, South, East and West just like any continent thus Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Jordon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Israel are geographically and demographically located in Southwest Asia, regardless of whether you call it the Middle East or the Near East its still Southwest Asia. Some American’s believe that the Jews were originally African, anything but Asian would suit I guess. The people, the culture, the dress, the food and the religious philosophies are all “Asian”.
Colour it as you may or will but there’s no getting around the fact that Jesus was from Southwest Asia and was an Asian.
He was not a European, His native tongue was Aramaic, He never addressed a European other than to answer interrogations under torture and never set foot in Europe in fact His main connection with Europeans was that it was Europeans that physically tortured and then killed Him. Although Europeans prefer that it was the Jews that did that even though the Jews never placed a finger on Jesus, they just didn't speak to stop it. History speaks for itself, what more can one say.
Ironically, the bald-headed and pale-faced young Marine in Iraq , of border Scots descent, with the cross around his neck, staring eye-to-eye with some devout Shi'ite he's detaining in Basra or in some Baghdad slum, doesn't realize he's looking at , more than likely, something like what his saviour would have looked like physically.
It has also been the bane of geographical academia for a very long time, but Europe does not exist as a continent in itself, of its own right. There is no natural physical boundary between Europe and the Asian Super Continent and we all know that a land mass, a continent must be physically separated from all other land masses by an ocean, an impassable mountain range or an abyss or some such impassable barrier to be considered separate and on its own. You can walk from France/Denmark Atlantic to China/Siberia Pacific, no natural barriers exist and this has been done many times in either direction. So the only reason Europe is considered a separate continent must be for racial superiority reasons on the part of the Europeans. Some will say no, it is for cultural diversity reasons. Well the same cultural diversity can be found if one were to walk from Argentina to Canada or South Africa to Egypt/Libya or probably from California to New York City. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 12:30:13 PM | It is evident through-out history that we Euro-Anglo-Nordi peans are the superior race. So it's only fitting that we would want to pretend that there ain't no how no way Jesus would have anything in common with the Afro-Indio-Chino cans.
After all... did it not say in the good book that when Jesus appeared on the mount of transfiguring that he was white?
So it's obvious that we will all be white up in da heavenlies.
Even the great Louis Armstrong complained "I'm white inside ... but that don't help my case.... cause I, can't hide ... what is in my face bos bohss si su sizu zu zuu zuuuu."
So what did Louis do to be so black and blue? Well... I 'll tell you.... he uhh... he uhhh...
He played the trumpet and God knew he would make a living by playing the trumpet! And everyone knows Jazz is of the devil.
But of course every one knows that black people in america have mixed enough with us whites so that they ... well some of them... can make it into heaven if they've either been a good cop or soldier and voted republican. Colin Powell might even make it if he supports Mc Cain.
Well... I know that some of them people reading this have a hard time reading so I wrote it slowly. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 1:23:05 PM |  HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is TMF when you need him????
A 3 year old trolling blast from the past, from a person who may not even have been a member of the site for almost as many years, and people are still banging on about the supposed colour of a person / diety skin, who's existence is debatable beyond some sketchy and tenuous historical evidence.
To those who believe in Jesus as their saviour, It is the message that he has purported to have given that is important, not the colour of the packaging of the divinity that communicated it. To those who do not believe that Jesus is their saviour....who gives a flying farque....what colour skin he had???
If current ethnological theories have any credence, we are all descended from Hominids originating from Africa. I think Trippy has it right in his post above.
Can we please put a wooden stake through this troll. Goodness knows, more worthy posts than this one have slipped into the locked posts chute!!!! | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:00:07 PM |
personally i hate religion with all its bureaucracy and dogma. i love pure, simple faith, and as far as i can tell, faith has no color. the biological jesus of the christians was a man of color. other prophets of other faiths were other colors. it makes no difference who they were. what they did was teach a moral code to the people of their day. i have faith. i have faith that there is a plan. i have faith that we as a species are evolving. so the various stupid ways that we discriminate against each other will fall behind us.
Best post in this thread. If we're gonna end it, let's end it on that note. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 7:37:46 AM | statueman
Did you miss placing a giant smiley at the end to show you were being witty? Or are you off your meds and believe that drivel to be truth?  | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:03:53 AM |
personally i hate religion with all its bureaucracy and dogma. i love pure, simple faith, and as far as i can tell, faith has no color. the biological jesus of the christians was a man of color. other prophets of other faiths were other colors. it makes no difference who they were. what they did was teach a moral code to the people of their day. i have faith. i have faith that there is a plan. i have faith that we as a species are evolving. so the various stupid ways that we discriminate against each other will fall behind us.
I believe it ~Namaste | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 165 | |
| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:14:37 AM | | ^^ Depends on what the quoted statement in bold means, or meant, by "a man of color". Seeing as though that oftentimes describes black or perhaps biracial men today, here in America, it would be bound to be factually historically incorrect. Not to be a total stickler for details but, usually, Middle Eastern men , Jews, other southern Meds, etc, are not generally referred to as "men of color". If we're talking facts, or trying to, let's try to stick to facts. If we're talking in college campus "-centrics" and/or "isms", be it "afrocentrism" or "nordicism", then fine....he was "a man of color", or, he was a platinum blonde-haired blue-eyed pale-skinned Nordic, whichever way you like. The factual evidence would tell us however, given the location we are talking about, that these people would have been neither "men of color"(as that phrase is used today) nor (strictly speaking) "white men". | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 10:35:31 AM | As I understand it, Jesus was Jewish. And the link between Jews today and biblical Jews is quite well established with DNA. So there is no reason to doubt that Jesus looked Jewish. As for various paintings, no reason for those Christian painters not to portray Jesus to look similar to themselves. Why not? And as for being black, no reason for blacks not to claim Him as their own. Again, why not? But historically, He was Jewish, if this makes any difference, which in fact I doubt.
The only objection I might have would be if someone were to claim that Jesus was not Jewish, when in fact, historically He was, during His time here on earth. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:54:47 PM | As I understand it, Jesus was Jewish Yes, Hebrew in fact. You'd be correct in your understanding of that.
And the link between Jews today and biblical Jews is quite well established with DNA. So there is no reason to doubt that Jesus looked Jewish.
Actually this is a Yes and No in that there is SOME link. More importantly there is the fact of how does a modern "jew" look? Many seem to fail to understand that as prophiciesed, the Jews suffered a great diaspora and were spread across the earth. Jews living in Europe intermarried with Europeans very frequently there is a history of this for over 1700 years. Jews living in the Maghrib are most likely by virtue of living in the same invironment to look more closely like the ancient Jews. There is no question that the Falasha for example are a part of the linage of Jews found in Ethiopia. Isreal recognized this and airlifted many out of Ethiopia. They are Hebrew not only by practice but also by DNA. There are more still there. Some still unrecognized by Isreal orfficially. (side bar, the Ethiopian christian tradition 1 of the oldest in the world supports that they are the decsendents of the Union of Queen Makeda of Sheba and King Solomon of Isreal)Then there are the darkest Jews found mostly in Zimbabwe they are the Shona and the Lemba.
In other words there are and I'd submit always have been dark skinned Jews/Hebrews that would fit into someones perception of what "black" is as a morpholigical marker.
Certainly Yeshua was painted as a dark skinned child with a dark skinned Mary by Greeks and middle easterners.....far darker than most of them, so they werent painting them simply to fit in with their own culture.
Point is, COULD Yeshua aka Jesus have been cinnamon, caramel, copper, bronze or even creamy chocolate/cocoa skinned? Of course he could have been. There is alot of evidence to show this as a real possiblity if not probability. Does it matter? If so to what degree......those are the real questions.
If you'd like links or further info on any of these points I'd be more than happy to deliver.
To say Jesus was black is sac-religious. I bet it is to YE of so little knowledge and so much judgement.
I suppose you even believe blacks built the pyramids even though egyptologists have found skeletel remains of workers and pharohs inside and they were all caucasoid. You've been sorely misinformed. Not only are many of the skelatal remains "negroid" but also those classified as "caucassiod" are also "black". You see "caucassiod" does not nesscessairly mean "white" since according to the same system of classification to which you refer the MAJORITY of caucassions are "non white" .....olive to dark brown(dare to say black) skinned, black wavey to curly haired people. A large percentage of them the British labled "black" for centuries(ex. Indians).
Not only that, Egyptians of that era painted themselves! They did NOT paint themselves as "white" and rarely as yellowish. They painted themselves as dark brown to copper or cinnamon toned and at least 1/3 of their paintings were of people from dark brown to black or a hue close to it. They did paint others as yellowish, black and white. Its been agreed by many historians that had the overwelming majority of Egyptian royal families been sent on a time travel to LA,AL,GA,FL,SC,VA,NC,Ak,TN,KY, in the 50's
they have suffered the same issues "coloreds" faced then and been made to go to jail or sit at the back of the bus in Montgomery,Selma and elsewhere where American Aparthied allowed the legal segregation of "coloreds" from "whites".
"It never ceases to amaze me at the nonsense some black people believe. "
 You must really be amazed by the nonsense some "white" people believe huh? | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:48:09 PM | I like what my daughter had to say on this subject when she was 5.
She spoke to "Diamond" all the time. I asked her, "Who is Diamond?"
She says, "Diamond is God". I asked her, "Really, and God is a girl?"
She nodded her head, "Mhmmm."
"What does Diamond look like?" I asked.
She said, "Whatever she wants to look like!!!!"
And I laughed and agreed!
Anyone who says it doesn't matter and then argues that Jesus couldn't possibly have been Black is showing that it does really matter to them.
If Aliens came down to this Earth and saw how consumed we were with race discrimination I would imagine they'd think we were stark raving mad.
It is a complete shame and very misguided. Everyone knows (or should know by now) that the origin of man was traced back to Africa, and should know by now that there is scientific proof that genetically there is virtually NO DIFFERENCE between a White man and a Black man and an Asian man and an Indian man . . . .
As if we didn't know that already. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/30/2008 8:14:05 AM | romanticoptimist
Did you miss placing a giant smiley at the end to show you were being witty? Or are you off your meds and believe that drivel to be truth?
Well... I stopped taking my bi polar meds over 8 months ago. Now that I know I'm crazy what's the point? Besides the list of side affects is not worth the limited help all of the commonly pre-scribed medications have.
Anywho... of course I was joking! You know me... I just like to stir stir stir it up. My favorite joke on this subject I heard from a friend of mine who was a hafe American Indian (I forget what tribe) and hafe Mexican. We could relate on several levels of the mixed ahemm "racial" experience.
OK OK so there was this White Preacher and this black Peacher and their both heading down the road argueing back and forth about what race God is. The White Preacher is saying, "you know brother, God loves everybody the same and does'nt look at the color of a mans skin but he judges the heart, but i tell you Gods White!" And the Black Preacher is saying "You know I agree with you but I just happen to have confirmed it in the scriptures that God i s Black."
So they drive happily down the road keeping their good natured arguement alive with scriptural references and pleasant platitudes when this big semi-truck comes along and creams their car sending them both instantly to heaven.
So as the Black Preacher and the White Preacher walk arm and arm to the pearly gates still debating back and forth...Gods White Gods Black thie big booming voice comes out of heaven and say..
"HOLA AMIGOS, WELCOME TO HEAVEN SENOR'S!" (WHAT? YOU DIDN'T KNOW GOD WAS MEXICAN?)
Ameera
That story about your daughter was interesting. So see... the thread goes on and speaks to those most needing to hear it or talk about it. Sometimes I need to talk about it. Oh I can tell when others don't want to hear it so I lay off it and start talking about baseball or something. I love sci fi too.... nice to meet you and welcome to POF Forums... if I'm ever in New York do you wanna do lunch?
NERO1 (and everybody)
I kinda like that point of veiw... I mean the world back then had to be similar to the one there now. You go north and folks get paler you go south and folks get alittle mo color... I think that God Chose Isreal cause they was in the middle of the human experience. So when our common creator chose to dress in flesh and come down here and tell us all to be poor in spirit if we want to be happy and own the kingdom of heaven... then we'd hear if from the wheel in the middle of the wheel.
Oh that was deep... I need to write that down... | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:28:33 AM | Sometimes I need to talk about it.
The first question that jumps to my mind is why? Why is it relevant? Why does it matter?
Oh I can tell when others don't want to hear it so I lay off it and start talking about baseball or something.
I don't mind talking about it, but I love to get to the why's
I love sci fi too.... nice to meet you and welcome to POF Forums... if I'm ever in New York do you wanna do lunch?
Sure, why not!  | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/30/2008 8:50:47 PM | i really hate all this divise exchange and i have one or two thing to say about change like the change you must change to have the change you hold dear.
All of the people who truely believe in him would know he looked like a person and as a person walked with man and will come back for a church who every one knows shows love because they are love as they are in him and he is love.  
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:00:08 PM |
i think jesus in his time apeared to the people as a middle eastern man, but if you want him to be black , doesnt bother me,brother, its the message that counts.
Most Christians appear to believe in a Plastic Jesus anyway. I think you can order them in green if you like. | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:02:15 PM | Ha ha ha - you're all wrong, I tell ya!
We are created in the image of God + majority of humans on Earth nowadays are Asian = God is Asian!!
Just joking, people, lighten up.
OP, you might want to take a long good look in the mirror and think why is Jesus' race important TO YOU..
Afterwards, let me know how likely is a religion based on Jesus' "love all people" message to exclude people based only on sex.
Use the "Mary M.." thread please | |
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| Anti-black Racism in Religion!
Posted: 9/2/2008 10:29:33 PM |
The claim that there is "no" historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ is false. There may be "insufficient" evidence for some, but there is not "no" evidence.
I concur. I should choose my words more carefully. There is in fact, insufficient evidence, but there is evidence nontheless. Still, I hope that my original point is not lost. I don't blame earlier Europeans for imagining him as a White man. I disagree with their reasoning for doing it, but I do UNDERSTAND it. Without strong evidence regarding appearance, they of course assumed that a great man would be consistent with their own ideas of beauty. Doesn't matter to me anyway, since this is not my religion, but the same thing could happen to any ancient religion with a single prominent figure. | |
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