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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/12/2006 5:51:00 PM | what kinda mics did you use on it?
He would have been using the Lawson L47, on her vocals, and probably the acoustic guitar too. And probably the Rode NT2 on some things, and I do believe he borrowed a few Neumanns, etc.
He's very happy with this mic too:
http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1599
....bang for buck here, big time.
The guy who produced Peggy's CD is the guy who owns the studio I work at. At the time he recorded that CD, his home studio had about $10,000 worth of gear, (pre's, comps, mics, EQ's.....no mixer), and a Apogee equiped AW4416, the studio has about $200,000+ invested now (the "Neve clone" mixing desk alone was around $50,000, ....and it was made for him at cost), and is also set up for mixing and mastering.
She's recordering another CD in June/July (busy me), I look forward to it, she's a great singer.
We'll be using that Lawson again.
The new version ( L47 MP Mk II), is available at $2000, a Neumann U87 is about $3000
Yeah, the top shelf mics ( like some of the new Telefunken re-issues, and the Brauner VM1 Klaus Heyne Edition; are $10,000 and up... past $20K) are a big investment for even a big budget studio...
But, $2000 for a killer mic, isn't a big stretch for guys who would drop that much cash on a guitar or a keyboard.
Same for mic pre's, ....
do you have a link for those hasnik mics?...I tried google no luck
No website, he's too busy building stuff (he makes awesome mastering compressors too).
The Hasnik mics are not available online or in stores, his limited production is usually grabbed by engineers and producers who are kinda' keepin' him a well kept secret.
I'll get you his contact info, it'll take a few days, I'll send it to your POF inbox...
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Posted: 6/12/2006 11:57:07 PM | i use a pc dell but all so use two sound card one for the studio to play the sounds i make
also i use a roland rx syth that is also hook up to my computer, sounds is great
I can tell you this much you can have good quality speakers or sound, it depends on the sound card with window direx x format sounds if a sound card caries this you can com out with awesome sounds hook up to the mixing and amp board.
and us the second pc to record it I love it and it not a high prise to pay either
im on my way of releasing a cd of music that i created. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/15/2006 6:57:56 AM | Well after the input here and some research I figure I need/want either the RODE NT or a Groove Tube GT-67. Gota save those nickle and dimes though, both are just under the grand mark (cdn).
So my next question is on recording and media. I had been using a dual deck Fisher casette recorder, for many years. But it has died on me (in a pervious post I said 8 track, meant 4 track). And to my surprise it has proven to be really hard to find another. I checked out Long and McQuade, they've got a TASCAM Porta 02 MKII Portastudio for under $200 which I figure I'll get so I can still use my stash of tapes.
But there were a LOT of other newer choices, using zip and hard drives, or memory sticks and flash cards and some with built in CD burners. What I am wondering about is the digital/analog differences. I would perfer to stick with analog, but if I go for a "newer" technology will I be be stuck with digital? Or can any of these things record in a true analog format?
Like the Fostex VF80EX 8-Track Recorder with CD Burner states it's Recording Format as FDMS-3. What does that mean?
I am wondering if I use one of these to record a piece and then record that to a casette tape have I got pure analog or do I have a digital piece saved to an analog media? | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/15/2006 7:33:30 AM | The Fostex is digital. Fostex and Tascam both make budget 4-track analog decks.
...Digital, with all it's faults, still outperforms entry-level analog stuff, it's the pro analog gear that it can't touch for sound quality, I'm talking 1" and 2" tape machines. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/15/2006 9:21:19 AM | So what about an Otari MX5050 1/2"?
Songbird has one at their Ottawa store for $500. I noticed in another thread you used to have one.
Also on Mics, they all have these nice graphs as part of their specs, Well which way do I want the graph to go? Most jump up as they approach their upper frequency range, is this good or bad? I assume that a flater graph is better then one that jumps around, yes/no? | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/15/2006 9:33:13 AM | So what about an Otari MX5050 1/2"?
Songbird has one at their Ottawa store for $500. I noticed in another thread you used to have one.
It's probably my old one, if it is, and it hasn't been serviced, the heads need "relapping".
Just checked, yup that's my old deck, w/the encoder too, I see.
When I had it - http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/Otari%20MX5050.jpg
Songbird pic - http://www.songbirdmusic.com/pop_image.asp?image=otarimay.jpg
If you were to put another $1000 or so into relapping the heads on that machine (as long as the person I sold it to didn't run tape and destroy the heads completely, ....I DID warn him), it would then be functional, and it IS a good deck, though tape is VERY expensive, and hard to find now.
Also on Mics, they all have these nice graphs as part of their specs, Well which way do I want the graph to go?
Actually, you really can't tell much about how a mic "sounds" by the graph, the only way to judge the usefullness of a mic is by ear. Unless you have "known" mics to compare to on what ever rig you have, ...the best thing to do is to do what I do, ...listen to what the "good" engineers and producers have to say, ....
Well after the input here and some research I figure I need/want either the RODE NT or a Groove Tube GT-67. Gota save those nickle and dimes though, both are just under the grand mark (cdn).
I have it on good authority that these are kick-ass mics, ....great bang for buck.
The producer I work with is one of those people that gets to try a LOT of mics, he doesn't say ANYTHING about a mic unless he tries it, and he uses both the NT2 and the GT-67. Though the GT is probably the more versatile of the two. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2006 5:27:54 AM | Strange twist, actually finding the pervious owner! Well thanks Late, you just saved me a road trip to Ottawa.
I was willing to go for the $500, but another grand on top...???? Well, so last night I bought a Tascam 112mkII (used) for the $500. Not a lot of features, but I am hoping a quality machine. I needed something for all my tapes. I guess now I start transferring them to newer media. As I said earlier, it is getting harder and harder to find tape machines. The guy at the shop has been trying to replace his reel to reel, because, like myself, he has a lot invested in tapes that he currently can't use. And can't find one.
So What do ya all think is the "Media" to be using, for today and tomorrow. I have noticed that as our technology advances some things get left behind. Back when, I put out some big bucks for an Optical Phase Drive and a bunch of discs ($50 each). Well of course the drive died, they all do sooner or later, and I now have a bunch of data on discs I can not access.
So in what formats do you believe I should invest my $$s?
I would like to stay with analog , but I fear that may not be an option much longer.
Oh, I also got a MXL 770. It was on sale for $90 and although it is not a Groove Tube, I figure it'll hold me over till I can get a better idea of where I'm heading.
Thanks all for the input, it has been most helpful..........Trewq | |
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Posted: 6/16/2006 6:53:20 AM | So What do ya all think is the "Media" to be using, for today and tomorrow. I have noticed that as our technology advances some things get left behind.
CD
I was willing to go for the $500, but another grand on top...???? Well, so last night I bought a Tascam 112mkII (used) for the $500. Not a lot of features, but I am hoping a quality machine. I needed something for all my tapes. I guess now I start transferring them to newer media. As I said earlier, it is getting harder and harder to find tape machines.
Before buying any used deck, look at the heads with a magnifying glass, worn heads not only don't work well, they butcher any tape that runs past them. Good article here:
http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/tapeheadintro.html
By the same token, old tape that has been improperly stored, oxidizes, and will butcher tape heads. Stored tape should always have a smooth wrap. Tapes stored tails out after being played will naturally have this. Tapes that have been rewound at high speed typically do not have a smooth wrap.
The guy at the shop has been trying to replace his reel to reel, because, like myself, he has a lot invested in tapes that he currently can't use. And can't find one.
 It looks like we will be getting the reel to reel that you would die for, "like new". Right now it's set up for 16 track 2", we're going to try to find a 2 track headblock for it for mastering too. A friend of the guy who owns the studio, bird-dogged it for him. It's a Studer.
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/Studer-A80VU.jpg
I'm not going to tell you how much we snagged it for, you would cry. 
Oh, I also got a MXL 770. It was on sale for $90 and although it is not a Groove Tube, I figure it'll hold me over till I can get a better idea of where I'm heading.
The other thing to remember is getting a mic pre.
I'll try to put this in a suitable analogy:
Okay, you want to improve your guitar sound, you have a cheap guitar with lousy pickups and a crappy amp.
So, you upgrade the pickups to the whiz-bangiest replacement pickups you can buy, and you plug it into the crappy amp and it still sounds like ass.
The amp is one of two limiting factors, replacing the amp would be a better solution, as ANY guitar will sound better.
If you were to get the GT, or the NT2, ...without a decent pre, or worse, no pre, you won't be able to take full advantage of the improved mic. A decent mic pre will make all your mics sound better, including your new Marshall MXL 770.
Something to consider
So in what formats do you believe I should invest my $$s?
You have the Delta 1010, this is what you should archive your analog to, CD/Hard Drive....
Good mics and pre's and other analog front-end gear is the wisest investment path.
The 1010 is good enough for pro work for tracking, but even with a good AD/DA convertor, a good clock is worth it's weight in gold:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/bigben.php
We have a "Big Ben" running 3 X Delta 1010's
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/IMG_0339.JPG
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Posted: 6/16/2006 4:02:33 PM | yes I have a delta 1010
they are quite good and solid once you get them configered right
my advice is to go that route,with a computer
even though analog is cool
investing into systems that are getting harder and harder to fix /find parts for may not be your best path...........
just my 2 cents | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/16/2006 5:39:33 PM | my advice is to go that route,with a computer
It IS the industry standard.
even though analog is cool
I would point out that analog "front-end" is still the best way to impliment digital recording. Digital plugins actually introduce data errors, and they don't have the same affect on the signal path as analog pre's, comps, eq's, limiters, etc. The technology of analog state of the art was established in the '70s, in regards to "front-end". So much so that even the software "emulators" model themselves (close, but no cigar) after the specs of the Pultec, Neve, Massenburg, Universal Audio, etc. device parameters.
Use the hard drive as your data archive, leave the VST plug-ins, and software "effects" alone, unless they are the top-drawer digital mastering tools like Melodyne, etc, ...and then, use them where they are suitable, - digital mastering/mixing.
nvesting into systems that are getting harder and harder to fix /find parts for may not be your best path...........
Actually.....
This depends on where you want to take it.
This is the case for the hobby user, ABSOLUTELY!
....for those who want "world class", there are still avenues to consider for servicing and maintaining top-shelf decks, and it's actually getting cheaper.
Those with long term vision?
We are going to be the only studio in Canada, aside from Metalworks, with 2" Studer mastering capability, and we managed to find a 2" Studer deck at less than the price of a Delta 1010 (I know FOR A FACT that other people are getting back on this bandwagon) ....if you want it, it's still doable, and there are unbelievable bargains out there if you're "in the loop". Digital resolution has hit it's ceiling due to physics (Nystrom Theorum), and it will never approach what can be done on a 2" deck. There are more and more vendors, fabricating parts everyday, for Studer, MCI, Ampex, Otari, etc, machines.
Right now, analog decks are still findable at amazing prices, and the places that service them are getting very busy = servicing prices going down.
This is a good time to invest in a pro 1" or 2" deck if you're willing to be an "informed" consumer.
When seen in the scope of the "big picture"?
Both is best, ....it depends whether your "home studio" is commited to being a hobby ONLY, or whether one wants to consider the future.
For example:
I get to record through a ton of amps made by Fender in the '50s, not because of "big bucks" that they go for, but because the guy I work with had the foresight to buy a ton of them in the '70s before they became collectable. There's a ton of tweed amps at the studio that he didn't pay more than a C note for, ....because he KNEW what they were really worth, before the collectors jumped on them.
Disregard any of my blathering, if you're commited to this EVER being only a hobby, or if you're happy in the realm of MIDI loops and hip hop.
Otherwise, educate yourself, and INVEST in the high-end stuff that's available for a small window in time, ...at bargain prices.
Deals are out there, they won't last.
A few years ago, the format was all but abandoned by the BEEEG corporations.
....Same thing happend with tubes.
BTW, you can get the parts and servicing for all of the top end stuff now, easier and cheaper than you could a coupla' years ago. YES! it's a niche market, but it's being looked after, expect the servicing to get cheaper, and the initial investment in the deck to get a lot more expensive in the next few years, so expect it to pay off in spades down the road if you can get in on it while the getting's good.
Tracking to 1" and 2" 8 track analog, and dumping to binary via AD conversion, and mastering the sum via DA conversion to 1" and 2" 2 track mastering decks, and then AD to digital master, ....is so freaking amazing, that it's just a no brainer.
The commitment isn't a monetary one at this point in time, per se ...it's a knowlege one. And the window of opportunity is in the closing stage for those who want to score huge, monetary-wise.
Apologies to the hobbiests, but some "home studio" guys have "pro" goals. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2006 7:03:46 PM | that is some awesome advice!!!!
is ebay a good place to get this analog stuff or what would you suggest?
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Posted: 6/16/2006 8:03:39 PM | As with tube amps, guitar build factors, ....knowlege is key.
My advice, Stay the course as far as digital AD/DA stuff is concerned, and save the "analog" for front end. ....if you can't invest the time, and resources of knowing a good deal from a bad?
Work from there.
Me? I listen to the voice of experience, add that to what I know, and look at my wallet, and realize that, I've given up on the recording thing, and gone with a guy who already has the gear, ....who I see eye to eye with.
Find yourself an old dude who knows his shit, man ...and LISTEN to his advice, and perspective.
Otherwise, it's a crap shoot.
You guys think I sound arrogant?
I'm only going by what I know from guys with Grammy awards, Oscars, ....I lucked out, and tapped into that knowlege base, and I wouldn't trade it for all the tea in China.
Go find the most arrogant m'foocker old timer that you can find, ....and listen.
...and understand the frame of reference, and the terms of reference.
eBay is only a crap-shoot, ....if you don't KNOW.
KNOW, then ....do.
Sorry bro' that's the best way I can explain it.
IF you can tap into the producers and engineers that have this shit down?
Run with it.
He may have a Studer, ....but I have a Hammond, and a Rhodes.
...and I'm his "go-to" session guy on strings, .....if I wasn't?
I wouldn't know shit.
Catch my drift bro'?
Network with the old school, ....it's priceless.
There's some great info here:
http://www.jrfmagnetics.com | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/18/2006 1:09:44 PM | Personally, i'm Phil Spector on a Black Flag budget, so as much as i'd like to shell out for tape and vintage equipment, I just can't afford a 250 grand Neve console, like one of the studios has here. I'd love to run 1 inch tape to record, but tape is just too expensive, and once I get into that, i'm then wondering why I don't have a ten grand Neumann mic, a 250 grand Neve console and so on. So i've settled for a step down--I picked up an AKAI DPS16 16 track off of EBay, and it has 32/ 44.1/ 48/ 96 kHz sampling, 24 bit a/d converters, multiband compressors, etc.
The preamps are nothing to write home about, but I run better ones into them, and they seem to work much better. But everything seems to sound really good, i'm really pleased with it, especially at the 48 kHz setting. Convienience and money, in the end--but personally, i'm a renegade engineer, I do lots of voodoo techniques and ways of doing things that other engineers wouldn't do or try, and if you're more inventive with mic-ing up a drum kit, for example--putting a mic under the snare drum to catch the rarefaction wave-- that will go miles beyond any strict hard rule. Jimmy Page got some of Bonham's drum sounds with three mics! So there's no real anything beyond experimentation and what turns out a good sound, even from something unexpected.
To me, it's all in the ears. I'd love to have the vintage equipment that Sound City or Chemical Sound Studios do--or even Steve Albini and Chicago Recording Studios (Steve spends thousands of dollars on mics, and has been known to put 30 mics on drums to record them. Also, the bricks in his studio are something retarded like 100 a brick or something.....i'd love to do that, it's just not financially feasible, especially the way the industry is nowadays). | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/18/2006 3:14:26 PM | LATE
you are my more experienced guy in the field.
I save most of the advice you give because it is good stuff !!!
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/18/2006 4:48:30 PM | Tell you what happened with the Studer yesterday, before money exchanged hands.
My experienced guy called the guy around here who overhauls the high-end stuff (and also gets big bucks as an engineer), and gave him the details, and the "who owned it" history of the machine, and the engineer said,
"Sure it looks good, looks like new, but that thing has a lot of miles on it, I know, I used to maintain it, ..my advise? Walk away, ....fast".
So there it goes.
That's two otherwise nice machines at great prices on just this page, that people "walked" on because they found out specific history.
That's what I mean about being informed and having a network. Thomas Edison used to say, "It's not that I know everything, it's that I know who to ask."
We're still looking, I hear through the grapevine that Daniel Lanois' Ampex deck is up for sale.....
Hmmm.... | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/19/2006 1:12:02 PM | An update on my Mic. After playing with the MXL 770 over the weekend I must say it is superior to any of my other mics, of course I only have a couple of off brand cheapie hand helds ($30) and a set of 4 CAD drum mics ($150).
For the banjo and voice the 770 is way better. Now I want to try a Groove Tube even more. If a hundred bucks sounds this much better I gota see what a diffence a thousand bucks will make.
Could anyone maybe lend me theirs for a weekend? Or anyone got a Neumann M 150?
And I still want a reel to reel if anyone knows of a good deal. But I guess there are a few others standing in line ahead of me.
Anyone got Daniel's phone number? | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/19/2006 2:07:05 PM |
An update on my Mic. After playing with the MXL 770 over the weekend I must say it is superior to any of my other mics, of course I only have a couple of off brand cheapie hand helds ($30) and a set of 4 CAD drum mics ($150).
For the banjo and voice the 770 is way better. Now I want to try a Groove Tube even more. If a hundred bucks sounds this much better I gota see what a diffence a thousand bucks will make.
Do yourself a favour, put aside a few bucks, and rent a decent mic pre for a weekend.
You'll fall head over heels in love.
And I still want a reel to reel if anyone knows of a good deal. But I guess there are a few others standing in line ahead of me.
Lately I'm starting to realize that the "window" of getting a decent machine in good shape, may be starting to close shut.
The days of the sweet deals may be over, ...everybody I know who's been finding them lately, has been keeping their mouths shut, ...and not sharing.
With a good analog front-end, you will be well served by the Delta 1010.
You might find your $ best used in getting a couple of channels of "good" stuff. Even Rupert Neve is starting to package his amazing stuff, in small two channel modular form so it's accessable to those who don't have billions of $ to spend.
See:
http://mercenary.com/portico.html
Anyone got Daniel's phone number?
I'll be playing on the same bill as him, same night, at a festival in July, ...I'll let you know... LOL!
....I hope I at least get to meet him. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/19/2006 4:06:42 PM | LATE
dude I am sold on the good quality 2 channel pre
is the neve the way to go ?
or are there other ones you would suggest too?
Is it super important to get one with a 3 band eq or can i get away with doing tone shaping with my other existing analog gear?
how does the newer -universal audio-----great river--- pres compare? | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/19/2006 5:53:11 PM | I haven't heard the new Neve "design" stuff, I can't tell you.
What I have heard is the Neve 1073 pre *the '70s design)
http://www.audio-toyshop.co.uk/Tech_Archive/Neve_history_2/Neve_1073/neve_1073.html
...is thought by some to be the be all end all.
These, I've heard.
Note the pre's in this pic:
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/IMG_0337b.JPG
Same circuit boards, same "St. Ives" transformers (Carnhill/St. Ives, you don't want to know what these cost), same layout. But, custom built by "Berwin Victor", here in Canada, and ...sorry, no he doesn't have a website.
If you want stuff for your "pro" studio, I suggest buying modular, instead of "all in one".
That way you can upgrade, and mix n' match.
Ooooh look:
http://www.ams-neve.com/html/products/1073.php
Hmmmm... re-issued, ...this is the "desert island" of mic pre's, but, .....$3700+ a channel!
It's also the most copied design ever, but, ...how good the copy is is dependant on whether it uses the same parts or not, and of all the new ones, only the reissues have access to the original transformers.
But, ...yes, pricey.
As far as the "cheap" pre's available today, the only ones that are available now at less than a grand a pop, that my personal arrogant ol' **stard endorses are these:
http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2003/SE-Pre-1.html
I also know Mr. Bova, and can attest to how much of an arrogant ol' **stard he is. He wouldn't sell something with his name on it unless it was GOOD.
A high-end mic-pre really gets the most out of a good mic, and though modules like this have no EQ, not to worry, EQ is not as critical with a GOOD mic as it is with line source.
ALso, check out the Mercenary Audio site, ...lots of high-end stuff there too.
how does the newer -universal audio-----great river--- pres compare?
The reissue UA stuff is probably a good bet, but the new non-modular "all in one" gear is cheaper than the seperate pieces it's supposed to be like, ...there's a red flag.
I haven't heard the Great River stuff, so I can't say.
The other benefit of starting off with a coupla' channels of high-end pre, is that you then have something to compare the other gear you want to try out via A/B-ing it. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/20/2006 10:28:21 AM | With regards to a microphone Pre Amp and realizing, you get what you pay for, how much should I be thinking of spending? I mean they, like the mics, range from a few hundred to several thousand.
So would something in the $200 range be a waste of my time/money?
(i.e. M-Audio DMP3 or Behringer MIC2200 or Presonic Blue Tube DP)
Although the Sage stuff looks good.. But, $670 per channel. And I assume I would need the power supply as well at $300 to $500. So $1640 for two channels.
Boy, now I need like over 3 Grand of stuff! And I haven't recorded anything yet! | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/20/2006 3:43:44 PM | LATE
I might be able to do a trade in to get this pre
http://www.uaudio.com/products/analog/2-610/index.html
any thoughts?
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 6/21/2006 9:58:38 PM | I've finally worked with a better compressor--a four band one--which is miles better than the one I was using before. It really tightens up the drums, especially--with a low, low mid, high mid, high specification--I can really reach those tricky frequencies that slam the mix improperly. Now, I can just set the level of compression, dB, ratio, threshold, release and level that hits the compressors in those tricky frequencies. Hot damn!! I'm like a mad professor......I might not ever leave the studio now......
I hate slammed recordings--so i'll still use it in moderation--but it's nice to finally have normalization, too. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/15/2006 2:30:29 PM | I've been ultra busy, ...I talked with Eric Hasnick from 11 at night 'til 5:30 in the morning last night, at the studio (I told him you were interested in a pair of his mics, G-man). We are going to design and build me a bass rig, based on the Neve 1081 pre' and the LA2A comp, ...with several output options, and try and keep it under $3K.
No bass amp for me, ...won't need it.
BTW, we have a Studer 2" A 827 24 track deck on the way, just serviced, brand new heads, ...steal of a price, still.... buying it will require that Gerry refinances his house.
Still busier than a three-balled tom-cat, I tracked two overdubs today (both "one take"), second CD's officially in the can, should be mastered by mid August.
The EAH condensor mic's are unbelievable, ....they reliably handle 20hz- 20,000Khz, ...these are ambient mic's, must have at $1200 a pair.
Mic the room, ....it's where the ears hear, ....who puts there ear a coupla' inches from an amp, guitar, vocalist, or drum?
Mic the room, ...no need for reverb/delay, ...period.
So would something in the $200 range be a waste of my time/money?
(i.e. M-Audio DMP3 or Behringer MIC2200 or Presonic Blue Tube DP)
Yup
Guys, ....
http://www.vintech-audio.com/473_info.html
Um, ...yeah
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/16/2006 2:43:25 PM | LATE
dude nice to hear from you
It sounds like the tunes are going well
yes I am very interested in some mics
I have been working on micing my in house drum kit
distance mics are key
I put one out in the hallway
and blended in the sound
another drum recording tip folks:
do not cut a hole in the bass drum for the mic,
it wrecks the sound of the drum
(I did an a/b comparision)
if you need a mic inside rig something through the hardware
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