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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/16/2006 4:27:09 PM | Drums
There's an article that will be published in the next "Musik etc." magazine on mic placement.
...pretty much mirrors my sentiments. The producer who wrote the article is my partner in crime.
Two overhead small diaphram condensors, + two feet above the drummers head, ....single large diaphram condensor four feet from the kick at a height of about three feet.
Make sure the's no phase aberrations, take the time to sweet spot the mics and let the drummer decide the dynamics, after all, ...it's his job.
Another awesome "trick" is to take a huge marching drum, and place it in front of the kick, and mic IT, it will colour the whole kit mix with HUGE. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/20/2006 4:52:40 AM | I have a Question.....what is the best inexpensive program to purchase to take vocals out and just have the track music....or can I send my song (email) to someone that has the program to do it and then they resend it back.
Also I purchased the MRS Zoom 1044 ....I have used it a total of 3 times ....it is awesome BUT the manual is not user friendly ....took awhile for me to figure just a little out in Recording with it. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/20/2006 12:02:07 PM | cntrygrl06
I would suggest doing a google search
"vocal remover"
or
check out the huge selection of ready made karoke cd's at music stores etc
..................................................................................................................................................... | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 7/20/2006 8:44:29 PM | I use Adobe Audition for most, if not all of my audio work. In it, it has a fairly decent vocal remover, or more precisely, a centre channel remover. It's a pricey piece of software, but it's probably the cheapest of all the multi-track professional programs out there.
I create music entirely on my computer with what they call Soundfonts - kinda like patches you'd find on some high-end keyboards, except you can mix and match them. Here's the stuff I use:
- PC computer with WinXP
- Soundblaster Audigy2 Value
- 20 year old Casio portable digital piano (typical plastic keys - at least it's touch-sensitive, though)
- Soundfonts (and the software that goes with it, Vienna for fine-tuning, Soundfont Librarian to load up the sounds in the background)
- Adobe Audition 1.5
- Tons and tons of plug-ins (usually DX and VST) to sweeten or dirty the sound.
- Microphone for various screaming, screetching, and other inanities.
Wanna hear some of the results?
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=anonymous%20paulson
note to moderators - these songs are my own compositions and they are public domain and part of the creative commons (archive.org) - which means people can make copies and futz around with them all they like, completely free.
Besides, I believe music should be shared, not bought or sold. So might as well I set an example  | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 2:24:02 PM | hey guys...
currently i'm using a mackie 12 channel....
its ok....
i'm shopping around and been thinking about the allen and heath 16 chan. wiz 3 board...
any advice on this ??? | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 2:43:29 PM | the allen and heath will have more eq possibilities than the mackie
usaually
I have an Allen and heath mixwizard16:2
I bought it over the mackie vlz 1604 because of the extra eqing per channel
(hi,2 parametrics,lo)
on ebay you could find one
they where still made in england ,some of the new stuff is done in Korea
I think the mixwizards are still england so far | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 5:56:05 PM | Countrygrl......I have yet to see a program that can do such a thing. IMO I won't believe it till I see it.
There is a somewhat complicated way to accomplish what you are asking but it still sounds horrible.
To change the subject....
I've worked with 'Late' numberous times on music projects and believe this man when he is talking about recording/music. Of all the seasoned pro's I have ever worked with ....This man can play the SH&T out of that guitar. If you need a guitarist hire HIM!! | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 6:27:20 PM | One thing I have yet to hear on this forum is the summing of your 2mix.
IMO does mixing in the box sound brittal and thin to you?
Home recording is cool but it has completely lowered the bar.
I guess what I'm trying to say is yea go and buy your analog front end record via digital.... from there if you want a professional record that you can hold up to large budget projects you HAVE to get it mixed on an analog board.
Personal favourites for mixing/recording:
SSL 4000G+
Neve 1081/1073
Home Studio setup:
Protools 002 V7.1
MPC2000xl
Korg Triton
Emu Vintage pro
Serato Skratch Live
2x Neve 1081 channel stripes w/EQ
2x of LA2A compressors
2x of EAH small condenser mics
AKG C3000B
SM58
SM57
I do overdubs at home and go to the studio I work at to record drums. Mixing done at the big studio aswell. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 7:21:43 PM | ^^^^ This guy works as an engineer at one of the most prestigious studios in Canada, and did at least two years internship with a killer producer to earn a spot there, after taking the (mostly useless  ), "FullSail" ProTools course in Miami, ...$49K a year for the course I think.
But he learned the right way from "old guys".
2x Neve 1081 channel stripes w/EQ
2x of LA2A compressors
2x of EAH small condenser mics
AKG C3000B
Drums?
How to sound like a "pro" right there. Lucky guy, ...the EAH mics are VERY rare.......
I know Eric Hasnik (EAH), the guy who designs and builds these mics (and also unbelieveably awesome mastering compressors, and much more), ...the guy is a national treasure, he needs to be cloned. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/3/2007 9:22:52 PM |
I have a Question.....what is the best inexpensive program to purchase to take vocals out and just have the track music....
I personally think that if this is possible, it can not be done by "home recording equipment". I have probably downloaded every audio software that claims to do this. The results were pathetic. If there is a song that you simply must have the instrumental, try searching for a maxi CD Singl or 12 inch vinyl of the song. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/4/2007 7:57:15 PM | EAH mics are hand-built, and hand matched, and while they aren't necessarily uber-expensive for a pair at around $1500 (they're worth 2X Eric's asking price IMO), they are almost impossible to acquire.
Professional recording tools are like good camera lenses, you buy them for life, top end analog gear does not depreciate, nor does it become obsolete like digi-world stuff. ....So don't expect to find any used ones.
Engineers/producers who have bought the EAH mics have replaced their Uber-expensive B & K small condensors with them, ...that says a lot.
There are some good bang for buck deals though in matched small-diaphragm condensors, and though I haven't heard them, the RØDE NT-5 gets good reviews, ...probably a great way to get into binaural mic-ing. Coupled with a good quality large-diaphram condensor like a Groove Tubes GT-67, you could conceivably have a trio of mics to cover almost anything you need for the same price as a pair of EAH's.
Of course you still need decent PRE AMPS!!!
Will it be as good as an EAH pair and a Lawson M47? No, ...but it will be a step in the right direction. And, it's got to be the best format for mic-ing drums I've ever heard. | |
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James1
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Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 137 | |
| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:37:48 AM | Well looky here, a handy thread! Ok I've got a question or 20 for you guys. I'm getting close to decision time and I'm poking my head around all possibilities. Immediately, and 90% of what I'll ever do, I just want to record acoustic fingerstyle guitar...no vocals. Later I might toy around with more if it fits in a nice cheaper budget. Having said that...on to specs!
Guitar/mics: I'm covered there, I've got a nice Trance Audio system in my guitar and a '57 and a '58 for toying around. I also have access to condenser mics if I want to go with those as well.
Computer: Recently put together a duo core that doesn't completely suck. I didn't get a soundcard tho, was waiting for this decision on that. One bad move I made, all usb ports...no firewire :(. Altho I'm guessing I could get a soundcard witha firewire port if I need.
Initial thoughts...Cheap: E-MU 0404 PCI, E-MU 1212M, M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI, et cetera. This option seems to be the best for my very minimal needs.
2nd thoughts...Not as Cheap: PreSonus INSPIRE, Insert any number of external box stuff that is around $200 and would require I get firewire inputs in some way into my computer. This leaves me more options down the road, but really more than I need.
Most Recent thoughts...Mixer: Alesis MultiMix 8USB, insert any number of mixers that can connect directly to the PC. This option seems really cool if I understand it correctly. For not much more money you get a mixer that can be used for other stuff. What's the difference between powered and non-powered mixers? Introducing my ignorance with that question :P.
Ok, going to stop this eye-bleeding post before it gets worse. Long story short...any ideas to help me narrow my decision?
James | |
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James1
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Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 138 | |
| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:39:45 AM | Forgot to mention my budet! I'd like to spend no more than a couple hundred bucks. But if I'm utterly convinced of grand-amazing-superness (tm) I wouldn't mind going into the $500 plus range.
James | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 7:55:23 AM | Let me poke in here before Late tells you, you've got to send Big$...
Yes bottom line you get what you pay for. However most of us here (Free Dating Site) don't have a $1000 for a Mic, or $1500 for a Pre Amp and then another $2000 for a compressor....
Yes, If I had it, I would love to spend $10,000 or more on some great equipment.
But on the other hand over the last few months I have bought a few things in more of the hundred dollar range and though not up to Late's standards, I have been making "better" recordings. And learned a bit.
One thing, which Late pointed me at, was a large Diapham Condenser Mic for my Banjo. He suggeted a few between $500 and $1000. Not in my budget. So I bought a $100 one (no tube). When I got it home and plugged it in, I thought it wasn't working, urgh! Then I realized it was working, only that it was the first time I actually heard "My Voice" coming over the head phones. With all the really cheap stuff ($20) I had used in the past, I was used to hearing some one else's voice when ever I spoke into the mic.
Then I got a Pre Amp, again about a $100, and again the quality of my recording went up. Next a $100 Compressor and again better recording. OK not up to Late's Standard, but way better then I was doing a few months before.
My point being that however nice a $1000 piece of equipment maybe, it does you no good if you don't have the cash.
Buy the best you can afford...
Oh and James, I've got the Delta 1010 in my PC, So far I like it. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 8:37:44 AM | Oh and James, I've got the Delta 1010 in my PC, So far I like it.
Now that you're finished speaking for me, tell him where he can put a rig together for $200.
Hmmmmm?
BTW, quit trolling me.
Forgot to mention my budet! I'd like to spend no more than a couple hundred bucks.
If you want to come in on a budget, consider getting a trailing edge 24/96 AD-DA PCI card, two "ins" is plenty for recording guitar. You can pic up a decent Echo Audio Mia, (that's 4 ins muxed) for probably under $75 on eBay, a delta 1010 is a tad more than that, and way more than you need.
A mixer isn't all that necessary either, not for tracking. Fingerstyle guitar - no vocal, you should be able to spend what's left of the budget on a couple of entry level strips of mic pre/EQ, and you can EQ most of it with mic placement, ...but you ARE going to need a pair of pre's
Without even a minimal pre, you'll find that you won't be able to get enough signal bandwidth to the AD, it's better to cheap out on the convertor and spend what ya got on front end.
FMR makes some decent budget two channel pre's:
Still a bit much for some at $499 for two channels, but you want to drop money on what will improve sound, ...you don't need to dump a whole lot into an AD that's more than two in's, for fingerstyle guitar you're just paying for channels you don't need.
http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm
And their compressor holds up to anything under $1K and it's $199
http://www.fmraudio.com/RNC1773.HTM
The FMR stuff is cheap but high quality.
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 9:32:23 AM | I'll second Late's post.
ESPECIALLY for accoustic instruments you will eventually need to get yourself some decent pre/eq's. And if you are recording fingerstyle guitar you will probably want to strap a compressor on them.
Another note:
I've tried the sm57/58 on accoustic and personally, I find it very dark and undefined. Try working towards a pair of small condenser mics. just my 2cents | |
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James1
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Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 142 | |
| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:35:35 PM | Thanks for the replies, one thing I should mention about the guitar/mic bit. The trance audio system is really nice...2 internal setero pickups with an internal box preamp, which leads to an external box that can go mono or true stereo, i.e. one out for the lows, one for the highs. At church I get a better sound with it than with some $1000 condenser mics running thru a pa with no effects. So initially I'll record with that system, complimented by mics only. Yes I may find it to not be as good as I thought, but that's a decision I've already made final :). Guess I may learn the hard way :P.
But anyway, you guys brought up something I completely forgot about. EQ's/effects. I've always been a natural sound type o' guy but I've really started wanting to learn a bit. Maybe this is a good chance for me to get my feet wet. I'm thinking if I go with a cheaper soundcard choice maybe I can dabble with a nice eq?
Any suggestions on eq's that aren't too terribly expensive, but still have a lot of options? I would probably be willing to up my budget by a bit for that adding in.
Thanks again btw, posts like these help me quite a bit.
James | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:46:52 PM | The best acoustic pup for live?
Sunrise/Pendulum
For studio?
A pair of small diaphragm condensors at 90° about 3' away from the soundhole, and a large diaphragm about 12" off the front of the 14th fret.
No effects
EQ?
do it by mic position.
"Good" eq starts at mega $, learn how to do without first, placement will do it for free, ...if you have good mics/pre's??
Cake n' pie.
Mic/Pre .....the achilles heal, ...everything else is downhill after that.
Compression?
Get the RNC for $199, until you can afford an LA2A. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/9/2007 1:08:10 PM | Yea Mic placement, that is an Art I am trying to figure out.
And even more important/difficult when you got more then one instrument/person playing.
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/9/2007 1:40:52 PM | james1
the alesis board / ad convertor on the cheap is good bang for the buck
I would suggest a seperate soundcard,then you can have more choice on what you put infront of it | |
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James1
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Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 146 | |
| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/13/2007 8:37:45 PM | Well the emu 1212m is about to be $99, so my decision just got a lot easier I think. With that price I can grab the FMR pre-amp for the mic placements and then have a look at some monitors. I think I'll hold off on compression and other things until I start toying around with everything. It should give me a chance to learn and buy as I go.
Thanks for all the posts btw, these and a lot of other boards/googling have really educated me quite a bit.
James | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/14/2007 6:10:44 AM | Recording is about limiting factors.
Lacking quality in any one factor can limit quality over all, regardless of how high-quality any one tool is, some factors more than others will be more or less critical. No one factor can guarantee a good result.
If you think about it, the most critical factors are at the beginning of the signal chain.
Musical ability/Room
Front-end (Pre-amp/EQ/Comp)
Microphone/Source
Monitors/Room
Convertor/Storage media
If you are doing layering, there's no need for a mixing console, if it's multiple instruments, the console is still only a necessity for monitoring, it doesn't HAVE to be in the signal chain.
That's just for tracking.... for mixing/summing and mastering, the priorities reverse somewhat. However, the old adage, "garbage in = garbage out" still holds true. Many of the essential tracking tools (Pre/EQ/Comp) aren't suited for mastering, mastering EQs and Comps are designed differently.
Good mics and pre's aren't going to get any cheaper, and they are the recording tools that won't depreciate in value compared to the rest of your rig.
Decent results are possible on a budget, sure, ....professional?
Depends on what you are comparing it to.
If you are satisfied with the result, A/B it with a known "good" professional recording, ...and then see how you feel.
"Professional" production values have been in the dumpster for the last 25 years, as far as mainstream recording is concerned. Home recording is common now, the number of companies that have jumped on the bandwagon in the last decade are countless, most of that gear is pure crap. Home recording has been the catalyst in production values plummeting.
Take for example the venerable Neve 1073 preamp, ....even the software version by UA is $250. The real-thing is over $3000+ per strip. And that's for a reproduction! Just the power supplies for good-quality analog front-end tools are often $500+
Why?
Quality parts/componants, ...the Carnhill/St. Ives line transformers alone cost as much as some people are willing to spend on a mixer. And in the case of Neve tools, the parts are proprietary, C/St.I won't sell them to anyone else.
"But I can't afford it!"
Understood, ...and yes, I've even heard some interesting recordings done "one a budget", ...but nothing approaching "professional" quality. For the simple reason that it's not possible.
I'm not writing any of this to discourage, but to try to insert a little reality so some can understand what is well-spent $, and what isn't. All of the entry-level tools have one thing in common, ...they are expensive when you realize that they aren't going to retain value, ...the stuff you may have to spend a year or three paying off? May be worth more after those years, than what you spent on them.
End result?
You sound better, and you have a net gain in your investment.
Look at the list on post #133
Home Studio setup:
Protools 002 V7.1
MPC2000xl
Korg Triton
Emu Vintage pro
Serato Skratch Live
2x Neve 1081 channel stripes w/EQ
2x of LA2A compressors
2x of EAH small condenser mics
AKG C3000B
SM58
SM57
The items in bold?
I'd be willing to bet that this poster could get more $ for them than he spent, ...and that he regularly gets offers to part with them for substantial amounts of $ more than he paid.
The rest of it is losing value as we speak.
I'm also willing to bet that other people (who have a few professional tools), often borrow these particular items from him, ...and he borrows theirs.
Another added value.
There is a bright side to all this though, most people can't tell the difference, ...because they no longer know that there is one. | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/14/2007 2:25:16 PM | Late could not of said it better.
Just renting these pieces out I've already paid for them and I've only owned them for about a year now.
To add to the mixing portion of Lates post I'd like to add a few things that I think most people are over looking.
When talking about mixing the analog summing section is the most important part. Digitally, it's impossible to accomplish the same sound. In order for this to be accomplished digitally you would need a processor per track(and a definitive clock). Now, the radar unit attempted this but failed due to the unit being ahead of its time and many edit features that didn't quite compete with other software platforms(one being only 2or3 levels of undo). Clocks are not definitive yet! Meaning, they are still guessing where all the instruments/vocals are landing in time. Having said that it's improving and from what I've read they can get there anytime now. But until then analog summing for me cause that's what MUSICANS like!!
I keep getting questions about this and hopefully this will clear it up.
Ok so the next question someone is going to ask is:
Polyphony what clock do I get?
Polyphony's answer is the Apogee Big Ben!
It's the most advanced clock on the market right now and has been for the last few years. Sure there are cheaper clocks that claim to do the same thing. But they don't! So don't fool yourself. Remember, digital recording is still very young compared to its father good old analog. | |
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James1
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Joined: 11/23/2005
Msg: 149 | |
| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/15/2007 9:32:07 PM | Ok guys, last time I'll bother you I SWEAR (fingers are crossed behind the monitor.) So this thread, and many other threads I've researched have convinced me to reach furthur into my pocket. Going to copy/paste a post I made on another forum. Mind taking a look and seeing what you think?
Well I've done quite a bit of reading on several boards for the last few weeks, and I'm ready to take the cheaper plunge. Right now I'm just looking to do recording for my acoustic fingerstyle guitar stuff. Later I might do more, but never as an actual 'studio.' So....
Computer I'll use: Intel core duo 2.4g, 1gig of ram (might get another 1gig stick later.)
Things I want to order:
Mic Preamp: FMR RNP
Audio Card/interface: EMU 1212m (it's going on sale for $99)
Monitors: Either KRK RP-5, or Tascam VLX5 (the passive bit has me wondering)
Headphones: Sennheiser HD-280
Initially I wanted to spend about $200...., uh...yeah, that didn't happen. So now I'm looking at $1000. Oh man. Now that's making me worried. I'm about to spend WAY more than I originally intended. So basically I'm looking for advice. Hitting the one-thousand dollar mark has me wondering if I've gotten there correctly. I've decided to hold off on compression and other things for budget. I'll toy with plugins for that until I learn what I need, and save up for that later.
Anyone have suggestions for better utilizing the money I'm about to spend?
Btw, the mics are a non issue. I have a trance audio system in my J200, and can borrow really nice condenser mics if needed, or use my sm57 and sm58 to toy around.
James | |
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| the HOME RECORDING STUDIO thread
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:31:23 PM | Well, the only thing I would recommend is, ...don't use the Trance for recording, go condensors all the way. Contact mics do not translate acoustic sounds well for recording, they emphasize overtones and harmonics that the guitar's natural sound, ...isn't.
"Polyphony" could chime in on this as well, ...he'll tell you. The acoustic guitarist we worked with had probably the best acoustic pickup system around in his '60s D 18, a Sunrise soundhole pup, and a LR Bags contact pup, fed through a Pendulum preamp, and a broadcast compressor, Bryston amp, Bag End cabs, and a subwoofer.
.....it all got yanked for sessions, and it was ALL mics. Same with all the other acoustic insturments we used, mandolins, saz, kalimba, dulcimer, etc. ...all which had pups for live, that didn't cut it for sessions.
I would suggest you start saving for a strip or two of killer Pre/EQ, this can take you into the realm of pro recording, as you really only need to channels to record solo acoustic.
Concentrate on a tracking set-up, you should be able to get good results.
Save the mastering for those who have the gear, best bang for buck.
Consider the RNC compressor, it's bang for buck at $199, and is perfectly matched to the pre. | |
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