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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/10/2006 6:40:00 PM |
That's nice. Too bad I wasn't addressing you. OOPS! - Feast_On_Scraps
Unless you're going to take this to email, or some private form of communication, then you don't have any place to complain when someone else answers your silly questions. I'm sure you didn't like my pointing out your blatant hypocrisy, but then again, hypocrites rarely enjoy that sort of thing. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/10/2006 6:42:07 PM |
Egad man! My opinion is mine because it is exclusive to me. I don't have to defend your position. That's your job. lol Btw, most of the women I know aren't afraid to address this issue, and certainly have no fear of the word "slut". I certainly don't. As to my position, just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense. - Ooli
You are the master of the non sequitur in this thread who seems more interested in flipping out bland, limp one-liners than interacting substantively. I am quite good at presenting my own point of view, but you seem content to spend time claiming that I don't understand your position, rather than either defending or explaining that position.
No, I'm asking a question and hoping for genuine answers. - Ooli
Your sincerity in this regard seems questionable since you make a lot more statements than questions.
No, that's saying you can determine sexual compatibility before you have sex. All it takes is honest, fearless and open communication. If you can't trust your intended to tell the truth, then that's another story. That in itself, doesn't make them a good candidate for a long term relationship. Look, we are all individuals, who approach situations based on our own life experiences. Our personal truths reflect our individual experiences. I have experienced the sexual compatibility issue on both sides of the coin. For most of my life as a sexual creature, I have known who I was sexually harmonious with long before I actually had sex with them, and was bang on about who I knew would be a dud in the sack. Of course, age has given me wisdom and the confidence to ask the tough questions. When I was in my teens and early twenties, I was too intimidated to talk about my needs. Still, that was a different time. Today, we don't have the same social restraints and sex is not a taboo topic anymore. - Ooli
That's like saying you can simply KNOW that a person is a good tennis player without watching them play. Sorry, but no. You can talk about tennis all day long. You can have pre-tennis counseling. You can read books about tennis. You can have long, in-depth conversations about tennis until four in the morning. But until you play someone on the court, you don't know. I'm glad your track record is so perfect. Truly. I'm not entirely sure I believe you, especially since you claim that your ability to communicate didn't develop until later. But words can lie. Actions cannot. I've met women who were verbal wizards talking about sex and intimacy. A lot of women talk a good game. Once you're in the middle of it, though, you can't lie.
Actually, it's your attitude here that seems inane, more then any points that are being made by either side. I don't agree with hostility as a bargaining chip. - Ooli
If you wouldn't mind checking your condescension at the door, I'll see what I can do about the "inane" attitude. Your hostility is a little more veiled, but it's still present.
The truth of the matter is that more men have supported the test drive theory then women on this thread. You cannot dismiss this basic fact with finger-pointing and shaming diatribes. - Ooli
This is an irrelevant observation, since we have no way of dividing up the data in any other fashion. Neither have women come into this thread in droves to oppose it, either. If you wish to simply dismiss the opinions of women who disagree with you simply because they happen to agree with the men in this thread, that's fine. I see yet another woman just popped into the thread to disagree with you. I suppose you're going to ignore her, too? You can either keep pointing the fingers at men, or you can claim that women's opinions who disagree with you still matter. You can't do both.
I am not promoting celibacy before marriage. lol That is irrelevant to my position. My reasoning is not religiously based. I am not a Christian, Jew or Muslim, although I do respect persons of those faiths. My main concern here is that sex shouldn't be the primary determining factor by a landslide, in a whether a relationship has marriage potential or not. Marriage is a blending of ideas and values, where love, respect and sex play equally important roles. One does not supersede the other. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. lol - Ooli
In case you hadn't noticed, the original question had to do exactly with sex before marriage. Nobody - and I do mean NOBODY (man, woman, gerbil or other) - has said that sex is the ONLY factor to determine compatibility before marriage. I don't recall anyone saying that it was even the first and foremost factor. We've all claimed that it is important. You're beating down a straw man.
No, you don't get my point of view. lol And that's OK. I said exactly what I intended to say. I was hoping for answers, not critiques. - Ooli
Then maybe you should try asking questions instead of subtly insulting people. I've found that questions are marvelous tools for obtaining answers.
Actually, I have studied these issues at university. What are your qualifications? - Ooli
I've studied history at both the undergraduate and graduate levels, and continued reading widely ever since. If they taught you that sexual immorality was an invention of the 20th century, then you should ask for your money back, because you got ripped off.
Look, what you and I are espousing here is opinion only. No one has a corner on the truth regardless of how passionately they feel about their position. - Ooli
You don't believe that any more than I do. You aren't defending your position as one option among many. You are disparaging not only the arguments of the people who disagree with, but those people, themselves. Granted, you're not as bad as Scraps, but you're tone really determined the tone of my response. I'm sure you'd like to think of yourself as reasonable and | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 303 | |
| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/10/2006 6:58:21 PM | molonel, I am simply not interested in playing with you anymore. You're far too much the bully for me. And darlin', you need to keep your words out of my mouth. It is obvious to me that you haven't read my posts carefully.
I have no desire to engage you anymore, because what you practice is character assassination, not skilled debate.
No, go find someone else to bother. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/10/2006 7:26:35 PM | And some people just can't learn to spell.
Sex would have created inappropriate ties, making it impossbile to leave when I needed to.
"IMPOSSBILE"!?! Hilarious!!
Oh, the blatant contradictions of the self-righteous are always so amusing. 
"Pride goeth before a fall" -- Ooh, do you know what that's from? So did you have to look that up? Didja?!! LOL
I'd rather marry someone who is "bad in bed" than someone who couldn't spell to save their lives!
Or, in your case, they could have BOTH! | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/10/2006 7:36:42 PM | molonel, I am simply not interested in playing with you anymore. You're far too much the bully for me. And darlin', you need to keep your words out of my mouth. It is obvious to me that you haven't read my posts carefully. I have no desire to engage you anymore, because what you practice is character assassination, not skilled debate. No, go find someone else to bother. - Ooli
That's fine, because I'm not particularly interested in being played with by you, either. I ain't your darlin', sweetheart, and while you may not like my style, I have no use for yours at all. I prefer a woman who either composes herself like a lady, or slugs it out. You have the worst of both worlds blended together. And you have nothing to teach me about skilled debate. | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 306 | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 308 | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 1:04:22 PM |
Unless you're going to take this to email, or some private form of communication, then you don't have any place to complain when someone else answers your silly questions. I'm sure you didn't like my pointing out your blatant hypocrisy, but then again, hypocrites rarely enjoy that sort of thing.
Wow! Such fascination with me! If you really want a date with me THAT BAD, why don't you just ask?
Scraps | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 1:14:58 PM | Absolutely!
Why the hell would you want to sleep with someone that isn't the right for either one of you? Being a 26yo Virgin, I can honestly say that waiting really doesn't bother me anymore. There's so much more out there to be had than sex. I would even go so far as to say, I'd give up sex permanently just to find "The right one" PERIOD. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 2:31:34 PM |
i say if they really loved her, and cared about what SHE wanted, they would wait. anyone who says they wouldnt, might not really know what love is, or they only love there penis. - Attraidies
Okay, let's return to the discussion at hand, and ignore the two folks who would rather make this personal.
For one thing, there are plenty of women who WANT to know about sexual compatibility, so acting like this is simply a matter of some guy getting what he wants is a fallacy. Read through the thread. Most of the women I know who've come out of marriages with bad sex or no sex life strongly, STRONGLY agree with me.
For another thing, and I don't know WHY I have to keep pointing this out, but there are plenty of women who've chimed in on this thread in favor of sex before marriage.
But again, we see that people who do NOT believe in sex before marriage insist on painting those who disagree with them as nothing more than a bunch of horny guys who only love their penises. It would be nice if someone can step up to the plate and defend this point of view without insults or personal attacks. I'm not very hopeful at this point.
Absolutely! Why the hell would you want to sleep with someone that isn't the right for either one of you? Being a 26yo Virgin, I can honestly say that waiting really doesn't bother me anymore. There's so much more out there to be had than sex. I would even go so far as to say, I'd give up sex permanently just to find "The right one" PERIOD. - edmontonpup
I'm going to respectfully disagree with your sentiment that you'd give up sex permanently to find "the right one." I wouldn't.
But your question begs another question, and brings us full circle: why would you want to MARRY someone that isn't right for you? And how are you going to know if you are sexually compatible with that person without having sex? Do you talk about it? Is conversation enough? I don't think so. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 3:14:31 PM | | The question says "...if you found the right woman", but I don't think I would know if she was the right woman until we had sex. I think sex is a very important part of a relationship, and there's such an extreme difference in sexual personalities, I think it would be foolish to wait. What if you get married and your partner is into golden showers and you think it's disgusting. One of you is going to end up unfulfilled. Although, I suppose if a couple could be open enough and communicate about such things, such disasters could be avoided, lol. But what I see in the real world is, people are messed up sexually, there's no communication, and no education that anyone would call 'real'. MTV is the source of most kids' sex information, so it's no wonder we're in this mess. So......I think people should wait longer to have sex, I've always been big on waiting until you can be totally comfortable with the person. Then you can have a more exciting start to the whole sexual side of the relationship, because you can be more open. But waiting until marriage? What is marriage but a piece of paper anyway, so maybe I could wait until marriage. But girls would have to worry that the guys are just getting married for the sex, and guys would wonder if the girls were trying to bait them into marriage for some ulterior motive. Ugly business this marriage, I really don't believe in it. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 3:26:14 PM | It's clear Ooli and Scraps are not up to the task of discussing this topic rationally, intelligently, and without personal insults. Molonel has outclassed you both by clearly explaining the holes in your side of the argument. Game, set, and match to molonel and anyone else with common sense.
Getting back to the question--it's poorly phrased. To most men (and I'd say most but a lesser percentage of women), sex is a very important aspect of a interpersonal, romantic relationship. If I knew in advance of a marriage that my partner could not express herself well sexually, and took no effort in order to improve that deficiency, that's a reason FOR ME not to get married. Because I know that I couldn't commit to a woman who does not value the value of her sexuality in a relationship as much as I do.
Now ooli and scraps, it's ok to have a differing opinion on this. I can understand that you value other relationships aspects--that's a good thing.
But if you truly enjoy having sex, you risk not having good sex inside the context of marriage if you choose not to explore it before marriage. You don't devalue marriage by having sex before a wedding ceremony. What you are doing is taking a calculated risk. If you truly value sex like you state, you are just making a guess that your partner either will satisfy you, or will be open-minded to learn how to satisfy you. It's probably more likely that you married a cold fish.
For me, the RIGHT woman and I WILL EXPLORE the issue of sexuality AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME. For me and her, this time is BEFORE MARRIAGE. We both understand the importance of sexuality in a relationship, how shared sexuality furthers the development of the relationship, and how it removes compatibility and commitment uncertainty. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 3:30:20 PM | BikeMan: Thank you for your intelligent, very well-thought-out post. It was as a breath of fresh air to this stale, over-wrought, often hysterical, thread.
To most men (and I'd say most but a lesser percentage of women), sex is a very important aspect of a interpersonal, romantic relationship.
I would like to reinforce that this is true of MOST PEOPLE; I don't think I would place the percentage of women who believe it is important at lower than men. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 3:40:58 PM | I value marriage very much. I think that engagement to marry is a good marker of commitment, and a good time to start exploring the sexual aspect of the relationship before actually getting married. It's easier to return an engagement ring than it is to file for divorce and/or go through the annulment process. (an unconsummated marriage is grounds for both divorce and annulment.)
This is perhaps the middle ground on this issue. I, too feel that by the time of engagement I would have a fairly good idea of the guy's willingness to talk about sexuality comfortably prior to becoming physical is a good indicator of possible sexual compatibility and the likelihood of a sexually satisfying marriage. It is indeed important to be both able to talk about sexuality comfortably (pre sexual indicator), and to be compatible sexually (once the engagement ring is on the finger). Then before the wedding the commitment has been made, then the sexuality further develops the relationship, and as bike man says, "removes compatibility AND commitment uncertainty." Good way to put it and a good way to express the idea of using engagement as good marker of commitment, and then determining compatibility before the final trip to the altar. And Perk said it well--sex too SOON in a relationship can ruin an otherwise good relationship that isn't on steady ground as of yet.
I think this is reasonable, and a formula for success for many couples.
DW | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/11/2006 4:20:48 PM | For those of you who want to argue that sex is only important to guys, I'd like you to take a look at another thread in this forum:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts3274336.aspx
The question is, "How long should a woman stay with a man who does not kiss her at all?"
Look down the two pages of the discussion so far. The respondents, mostly women, have replied with a chorus of variations on the phrase, "I would be SO gone in 2.5 seconds."
I think all of you who keep arguing that the physical shouldn't matter need to go, en masse, over to that thread and tell all of those women that they should stop focusing on the physical and care about the person, instead.
I know you won't, but it would at least be consistent. | |
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