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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 2:44:02 PM | Ok....
I was going to stay away from this thread, I said to myself... but it kept being there everytime I logged in...
And I have seen severr people that I respect post here... so I started to read...and read...and good lord, 24 pages later.....
So... for those who simply say... "I don't want to, and I won't"... that is your choice.
For those who say... welll, I have to because I need to be sure that we are 'compatible'"..
A couple of questions... food for thought as it were.... But I will first preface my questions with a statement of bias....
I am one of those people that believe... that you can establish to a very high degree of certainty compatibility issues with thorough frank discussion.
Now before the back lash of horror stories starts, I will be the first to admit that if either party is dishonest, it does not work. If the couple does not have open communication, it does not work. If you can not trust what the other says, it does not work. However, if you are missing any of these three, your relationship is in deep trouble, and not just sexually. They are very baisic, but extremely important prerequisites for any relationship were marriage is a consideration.
Now... question #1 again.. who say sex is necessary before marriage to ensure compatibility
How many people here.... virgins not included for obvious reasons... who claim to know the difference between good sex and bad sex, could not verbalize precisely what they like... what position, how much, how often... what they will do.. what they won't do... and when asked, could not tell you what they would consider doing. I would submit that most if not all "experienced" people could...
Therefore, I would submit as a logical extension, that if you have this ability, you ought to be able to establish quite succinctly skill level, and compatibility. An experienced person in anything can usually establish the "skill level" of another in that activity with in very finite bounds by just a few questions.
Question #2... rhetorical....
Have you ever noticed that many of those who claim to be having sex with thier partner "to establish compatibility" don't stop when the compatibility is established?
Look, some are going to engage in sex within 3 dates... some will wait a while, and a few will wait untill marriage. But in any case, call a spade a spade... If you are having sexd, you are having sex because you want to. (I am purposefully not including assault, abuse mental or physical. etc in that statement)
i would add that many relationships were the sex starts too soon are doomed to fail... due to a lack of intimacy.... I feel for example that a couple should learn to be physically intimate before become sexuall intimate. Both sides of a couple need to learn to trust, to be honest, and to speak thier mind, heart, and soul within a relationship... before becoming sexually intimate. With these things in place, both already know they have acceptance from the other... meaning there is much less anxiety concerning it... and the benifits to both during it will increase the enjoyment exponentially.
As for my answer to the op's question... yes I could wait... yes I would wait... it would be damned hard...
let the back lash begin.
T_M | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 4:05:32 PM |
(Msg 590) How many people here.... virgins not included for obvious reasons... who claim to know the difference between good sex and bad sex, could not verbalize precisely what they like... what position, how much, how often... what they will do.. what they won't do... and when asked, could not tell you what they would consider doing. I would submit that most if not all "experienced" people could...
Therefore, I would submit as a logical extension, that if you have this ability, you ought to be able to establish quite succinctly skill level, and compatibility. An experienced person in anything can usually establish the "skill level" of another in that activity with in very finite bounds by just a few questions.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, it's not that easy. A couple of points.
Think of sexual compatibility as liking a movie. Let's say you like an action movie. Car chases/crashes. Shootouts. Etc. A friend tells you about a movie that has all of that. It sounds great. When you go to see it you notice the acting is that of a "B" movie. It flashes pictures of the wall the car is going to hit 3 or 4 times before the cars actually hits it. There is no surprise/shock. The move is a dud, yet it has all the things you like in a movie. That is similar to sexual compatibility. It's can't be talked. It has to be experienced.
One person may enjoy all the sexual positions/moves as the other but they come across as mechanical rather than passionate. That would certainly be a big turn-off but one would not know until they actually experienced it.
Consider a wine. One can describe how it is made but one will not know if it's good until they actually taste it. Is one too rough in bed? Are they too aggressive? Do they scream like they're being tortured? Do they lie there like they're dead? Those are sexual compatibility issues that can only be discovered by having sex.
The second point is one may say they really enjoy sex just as they may say they really enjoy going out for dinner. However, they don't want to go out for dinner tonight because they have nothing to wear as they didn't take their clothes to the cleaners. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because they had a big lunch. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because it's supposed to be stormy later. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because.......Does that person really enjoy going out for dinner?
Have you ever noticed that many of those who claim to be having sex with thier partner "to establish compatibility" don't stop when the compatibility is established?
Ahhh, but just as folks say it takes time to really get to know the person it takes time to see if their sexual libido holds up. Sure, most people are sexually active at the beginning of a relationship. What happens a few months down the road? It's boring? The thrill is gone? They prefer to go bowling? 
i would add that many relationships were the sex starts too soon are doomed to fail... due to a lack of intimacy
I agree that sex should improve as the relationship becomes established so they have that to look forward to. As for the relationship failing because of a lack of intimacy in the beginning I do not understand that. Sex early in the relationship does not prevent intimacy from developing. If anything, it encourages it. It draws two people closer together, physically and emotionally, and that's precisely the point of a relationship.
Rather than someone having had sex and the relationship doesn't pan out and thinking they were used they need to look at it as having found out the relationship wasn't meant to be as as soon as possible. Which is better; dating for six months, introducing your partner to all your friends and family, making all sorts of future plans and then finally having sex and the person leaves or have sex early and the person leaves? I would think those seriously interested in establishing a relationship would want to find out as soon as possible. It is certainly to the advantage of a person just interested in dating or using someone as a companion for social outings to postpone sex as long as possible.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to get to know the person before having sex but to delay getting to know the person is a definate red flag, to use the popular euphemism. It is one thing to go slow regarding having sex and quite another to deliberately go slow learning about the other person. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 7:02:36 PM |
I am one of those people that believe... that you can establish to a very high degree of certainty compatibility issues with thorough frank discussion. - tin_man
Since you've commented on elements of discussion and experience which are strangely absent from those who disagree with you, allow me to point out another thing which is oddly missing from this discussion: among the people who say, "Oh yeah, you can TALK your way through this," not a single solitary person has emerged who said, "My present spouse and I only talked about sexual compatibility, and we WERE sexually compatible." We've heard a lot of song and dance about how talk is enough. But nobody has actually come forward and said, "Yes, that's what I did." They've only said, "Yes, that's what I *could* do. I think. Kinda, sorta."
It's not extremely reassuring, either.
Now before the back lash of horror stories starts, I will be the first to admit that if either party is dishonest, it does not work. If the couple does not have open communication, it does not work. If you can not trust what the other says, it does not work. However, if you are missing any of these three, your relationship is in deep trouble, and not just sexually. They are very baisic, but extremely important prerequisites for any relationship were marriage is a consideration. - tin_man
If either party is dishonest, or doesn't know, or if one party is more experienced than the other and has expectations which the other person can't even understand, or if there is abuse and at least one person cannot talk about it (which is not uncommon), or frigidity, or any of a myriad of other possible snags which can arise.
How do you KNOW when you don't have open communication? The answer: often, you don't. That sort of thing is most visible in retrospect. You see it in your rear view mirror, not your windshield. Communication is important, but think of anything that might be important in a relationship besides communication, and then try imaginging replacing it with ONLY communication. For example, if it is very important for one partner that they meet each others's families, can you imagine the lunacy of suggesting, "Well, suppose we just TALK about meeting each others's families! That should be enough, right?"
Communication is vital. But it's not everything, and it can't replace action.
Now, nobody has suggested that sex before marriage is a panacea. As the comedian Ron White has pointed out, marriage usually occurs when you're in the midst of having a lot of sex, and ends when you aren't getting any. But there are valid reasons for exploring sexuality through something
Now... question #1 again.. who say sex is necessary before marriage to ensure compatibility. How many people here.... virgins not included for obvious reasons... who claim to know the difference between good sex and bad sex, could not verbalize precisely what they like... what position, how much, how often... what they will do.. what they won't do... and when asked, could not tell you what they would consider doing. I would submit that most if not all "experienced" people could... Therefore, I would submit as a logical extension, that if you have this ability, you ought to be able to establish quite succinctly skill level, and compatibility. An experienced person in anything can usually establish the "skill level" of another in that activity with in very finite bounds by just a few questions. - tin_man
Again, however, talking is different from doing. And nobody has said that open and honest communication is unnecessary. Obviously, it's necessary. But is it, alone, sufficient? Is talking enough? Has it ever been enough for you? I know you're saying it COULD be, but has it been enough?
Question #2... rhetorical....Have you ever noticed that many of those who claim to be having sex with thier partner "to establish compatibility" don't stop when the compatibility is established? - tin_man
So if you like sex, and don't stop having sex once compatibility is established, this somehow undermines your expressed intent to establish sexual compatibility?
That doesn't follow, my friend. If you're compatible, then you're going to enjoy sex, and probably keep doing it. Your logic isn't really logical.
Look, some are going to engage in sex within 3 dates... some will wait a while, and a few will wait untill marriage. But in any case, call a spade a spade... If you are having sexd, you are having sex because you want to. - tin_man
You're acting like WANTING sex or DESIRING sex is somehow mutually exclusive with wanting to establish sexual compatibility. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you WANT sex and DESIRE sex, then establishing sexual compatibility will be a priority.
Of course people have sex because they want to. Big fire truck red "duh." But that doesn't mean that when you have sex with someone you are considering committing to, you are somehow making excuses, or that you have somehow ruined the alleged purity of your motives.
Some people want to WAIT because they do NOT like sex or want sex. True? Does this completely undermine your argument? If not, then you can't submit that the opposite undermines anyone else's position.
i would add that many relationships were the sex starts too soon are doomed to fail... due to a lack of intimacy.... I feel for example that a couple should learn to be physically intimate before become sexuall intimate. Both sides of a couple need to learn to trust, to be honest, and to speak thier mind, heart, and soul within a relationship... before becoming sexually intimate. With these things in place, both already know they have acceptance from the other... meaning there is much less anxiety concerning it... and the benifits to both during it will increase the enjoyment exponentially. - tin_man
Most relationships, dating or otherwise, are doomed to fail anyway. How many people here have dated one person, only? Not many at all. So you need to show how having sex before marriage somehow makes a relationship MORE likely to fail, instead of merely pointing out that relationships fail - because that's a given.
Nobody has denied that physical intimacy is important. Nobody has denied that trust is important. Nobody has denied that speaking one's mind, speaking one's heart, and expressing one's self - the soul, if you wish - are all important if not vital. The order of these events, and the importance of that order, are certainly debatable.
What is entirely lacking, therefore, is showing that celibacy until your wedding day somehow fosters these qualities better. Especially since nobody, including the advocates of this path, has stepped forward to say, "It worked for me." | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 7:44:14 PM | for me, i say upfront that i won't have sex 'til marriage. i do realize that some people NEED to have sex to feel that they're in a *mature* relationship. some people feel that it's a way of bonding for the *adults*. i always hear *it's not HOW you're doing it, is WHO you're doing it with*. as of now, i don't know the validity of the statement.
anywayz, to be fair, i think the girl/boy needs to let the other person right away that he/she won't *put-out* til marriage. it's upto the guy/girl to decide whether he/she will stick with him/her. he/she knew right off what he/she was getting into? if he/she decides to...then what's the problem? | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 8:07:05 PM | tin man is back ! We haven't had this discussion in ten months, I believe it's been.
I see where you've put a caveat this time as regards the importance of discussing sex, now saying that it only works if both are honest. One of my points last April or so was/is :how do you know your partner is honest?
I've talked to many women from this site, I talk to female acquaintances, (when I worked with people) I've talked to many women in work situations, and I talk to women daily in fleeting everyday dealings (store, bank, etc.. ): and I don't trust any of them 100 %. That's not the mindset of a suspicious personality, it's jusy a given if you've lived long enough. Unless and until you're in a long-term relationship, where you can see the other person's viewpoints and actions when under fire, and until you've been with them long enough so you can validate the congruency between their words and actions, then putting your trust in the rest-of-your-life sexual future with another who has a vested interest in saying what you want to hear is foolish and naive.
Some other points of refutation have already been addressed, and wisely so, by molonel and dave 1234. I'll add a few more, and hope I'm not repeating what other poster(s) have said.
If a man (usually it's the man in this scenario) agrees to wait through a protracted courtship, and until marriage, before sex with his intended, he's giving two clear messages to his fiance:
1) She already holds the power as to when, and how often, sex is going to occur when they finally do get horizontal. (Yes, I understand the hypothetical arguement that some men WILLINGLY wait, as well. I just haven't met any in my lifetime.)
2) She also gets the message loud and clear that not only sex itself, but other issues (time with friends, household division of labour, money issues, in-law issues, childrearing issues, religious issues, etc etc etc...) can be won by ...... hey ! withholding sex when not getting her way, or meting out sex as a reinforcer of good behaviour.
Completely conversely, the man can present a wonderful front, and maybe even believe it himself, and then revert to once-a-week two stroke pump-and-dump after a relatively satisfying month or so. (A LOT of potential relationships go sexually south after a month or two, and this has nothing to do with "not getting to know the other well"; it's a compatibility issue based on the mysterious, exquisite interplay of sexual passion between a couple, and is completely unknown until the couple actually LIVES it.) | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 8:24:14 PM | concerning the topic of this thread and in response to the OP's question
have you never heard of the taigh mahal ? or however its spelled?
what about that "1,000 islands" place in Canada?
If I did research I bet I could come up with a long list of things besides castles
I dont think any of them guys had trouble waiting to have sex either.
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 586 | |
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| I hate it when I forget to finish a sentence
Posted: 2/24/2006 8:52:43 PM | I said ...
Now, nobody has suggested that sex before marriage is a panacea. As the comedian Ron White has pointed out, marriage usually occurs when you're in the midst of having a lot of sex, and ends when you aren't getting any. But there are valid reasons for exploring sexuality through something
I meant to say ...
But there are valid reasons for exploring sexuality through something more than talk. | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 588 | |
| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 8:53:48 PM | Rory...with regards to your idea that a man who abstains to please a woman is giving her the idea to manipulate him sexually....what you are talking about is a character issue that pertains to an individual, not a specific gender. If you find a decent, loving woman, she will not use sex to manipulate you.
I'd like to point out that men who are manipulators will also withhold sex from their wives to get what they want.
Further, a person's character and personality is developed long before they mature sexually. So, sex is irrelevant in the shaping of a manipulative personality.
Lastly, people whose character allows them to play these kinds of deplorable games, will do so whether they are celibate prior to marriage or not. | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 589 | |
| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 9:04:31 PM | Ahhh, but just as folks say it takes time to really get to know the person it takes time to see if their sexual libido holds up. Sure, most people are sexually active at the beginning of a relationship. What happens a few months down the road? It's boring? The thrill is gone? They prefer to go bowling?
Dave...you simply can't guarantee a relationship will be successful or that the sex won't dry up by insisting on sex before marriage. (Yes...sex before marriage is lovely, but it's not necessary.) There are so many factors at play. It really doesn't matter how great the sex is in the beginning, it's going to suffer if the communication breaks down. And, if lack of relationship skills result in disrespectful attitudes or contemptuous language, then the sex might dry up altogether. That's why sexual compatibility is ultimately not decided by sex alone. It's decided by similar value and belief systems.
I believe the only way to ensure a good sexual relationship in a marriage, is to constantly nurture the bond with respect, trust and love, for starters. All the test drives in the world won't protect you from future problems if you don't maintain that little beauty with care and lots of preventative work.
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 9:05:28 PM | "I'd like to point out that men who are manipulators will also withhold sex from their wives to get what they want" -- Please re-read my post more closely where I also deal with men presenting false fronts, as well.
As to your first sentence: people teach others how they want to be treated. I have seen countless people, in all kinds of situations, who, when presented with a wussy character-- someone who let others dictate to them however they wanted-- stomped all over them. Otherwise good people, too. It seems that good, bad , and everyone in between-- all seem to be united in taking advantage of someone who says "kick me". A few highly moral people are above it, but it's a universal phenomenon, and doesn't bode well for my opinion of human nature in general, at times.
"Sex is irrelevant in the shaping of a manipulative personality".-- This is not my arguement here. What I am saying is that manipulative men or women are much more able to use the "no sex till marriage" gambit to their advantage. Sex, as a natural consequence to the living dynamic reality of the relationship, would much better preclude these types of shenanigans. A manipulator, sexually especially, will be found out far more quickly and easily, when the discrepency between their words and actions regarding sex are found wanting. | |
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Ooli
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Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 593 | |
| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 9:43:11 PM |
A manipulator, sexually especially, will be found out far more quickly and easily, when the discrepency between their words and actions regarding sex are found wanting.
I'm sure this is true. lol Of course, it's not the only way to determine if someone is a manipulator who will use sex to get what they want from you.
What you say about establishing boundaries is bang on. And of course, it's important to respect others boundaries, too. The real trick is finding two people who have similar values and who are respectful of each others lines in the sand.
I personally want a man who would be willing to wait, even though I would never ask him to. His willingness to honour a boundary like this if it was asked, shows a level of commitment to the idea of a coupleship that is a real turn on. He'd never do without, if you know what I mean and I think you do... It's all about mutual respect and love. If you've got that...you've got the unending supply of sex, IMHO. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 9:48:08 PM | I am begining to think we are not supposed to find someone with the same values and is respectful. I think its in Gods plan.... to make us better humans and stronger people
to live in constant struggle with the opposite sex.
if we all got along and lived in peace with the opposite sex.... nobody would pray, ask what its all about, ask God to help them or look beyond whats apparent.
Its part of the big picture for things to be as fuced up as they are | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/24/2006 11:23:35 PM | I could wait.Dont hurt any to look with the eyes of the heart and not the ones on your head.(or heads,lol) Sex is what you make of it anyways.It can be boring,stale and get old real fast ,or it can be like the 4th of july every nite.As for having her tell me to wait on the first date,hell,that first date better be in vegas so we can get up and go streight to the chapel of love ,whatever and no matter,what time it is,winkss | |
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Tansi
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Joined: 2/25/2006
Msg: 596 | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/26/2006 11:14:06 AM | Ok... here goes....
@ Dave
First of all... thanks for debating the position without attacking character. It is an appreciated and refreshing way of doing things. 
["]Think of sexual compatibility as liking a movie. Let's say you like an action movie. Car chases/crashes. Shootouts. Etc. A friend tells you about a movie that has all of that. It sounds great. When you go to see it you notice the acting is that of a "B" movie. It flashes pictures of the wall the car is going to hit 3 or 4 times before the cars actually hits it. There is no surprise/shock. The move is a dud, yet it has all the things you like in a movie. That is similar to sexual compatibility. It's can't be talked. It has to be experienced.[/"}
Actually... if the person describing the movie were a stranger, this could happen. However if you and the person describing the movie knew each other well... this is very UNLIKELY to happen as many common frames of reference would already have been established.
["]One person may enjoy all the sexual positions/moves as the other but they come across as mechanical rather than passionate. That would certainly be a big turn-off but one would not know until they actually experienced it.[/"]
Not a significant likelyhood, particularely if the person is truely enjoying themselves. If they are simply "doing it to please the other" then perhaps. But since you would already know what was truely enjoyed in advance with thorough frank discussion, this would not be a concern now would it.
["]Consider a wine. One can describe how it is made but one will not know if it's good until they actually taste it. Is one too rough in bed? Are they too aggressive? Do they scream like they're being tortured? Do they lie there like they're dead? Those are sexual compatibility issues that can only be discovered by having sex.[/"]
Actually... many wine tasters can describe the taste of the wine close enough that you will know what it tastes like. As for the sexual nuances you mention, If you can dream them up for this forum, they are questions you can ask your partner. And if we are talking about two "experienced" people... they will know the answers.
["] The second point is one may say they really enjoy sex just as they may say they really enjoy going out for dinner. However, they don't want to go out for dinner tonight because they have nothing to wear as they didn't take their clothes to the cleaners. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because they had a big lunch. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because it's supposed to be stormy later. They don't want to go out for dinner tonight because.......Does that person really enjoy going out for dinner?[/"]
That might be true... but that same person can definitely tell you how often they do go out for dinner... whether it be in the last week, month, or year. And they can tell you what affects whether or not they feel like going out to dinner. And which restaraunts, type of food, time of day, favorite waiter/waitress, cooks/chefs/ etc. As a matter of fact, if you discussed it thoroughly, you could pretty much predict the eating habits of your friend pretty closely afterward.
["]Ahhh, but just as folks say it takes time to really get to know the person it takes time to see if their sexual libido holds up. Sure, most people are sexually active at the beginning of a relationship. What happens a few months down the road? It's boring? The thrill is gone? They prefer to go bowling? [/"]
Anyone who has been in a sexual relationship longer than a few months will be able to tell you quite clearly what thier libido has been like, including contribiting factors to frequency, etc.
You will never be able to predict an entire life time from a few months of activity... of "sexual compatibility"... Too many things happen over time... hormonal changes, stress, age, etc.
Indeed, the best you might be able to hope for is to establish what reactions might be, again through frank discussion....accepting now that you are not dealing with history, but attitude, and a hypothetical. But truthfully.... whether you are sexually active before marriage or not... whether you discuss it or not... Ultimately the only test is to spend the life time with that person and find out.
["]I agree that sex should improve as the relationship becomes established so they have that to look forward to. As for the relationship failing because of a lack of intimacy in the beginning I do not understand that. Sex early in the relationship does not prevent intimacy from developing. If anything, it encourages it. It draws two people closer together, physically and emotionally, and that's precisely the point of a relationship.[/"]
In an ideal world, I would agree. However the world is anything but ideal. One axample... although the extreme end of the spectrum, many places on the spectrum exist with equally devastating results that just take longer to make themselves apparent: Man meets woman, were and how we really don't care. They begin dating, and before very long at all start having sex. As they have not been dating very long, they really don't know each other very well. But they enjoyed the sex so much, that whenever they meet now, they spend all thier time having sex, and no time getting to know each other. If all they ever wanted from each other was sex, then great. But if they were interested in an LTR, they are very lilkely in trouble when the sex fades...
["]Rather than someone having had sex and the relationship doesn't pan out and thinking they were used they need to look at it as having found out the relationship wasn't meant to be as as soon as possible. ["]
This goes back to the crux of the question, although in a slightly different form... rephrasing from "would you wait", to would you stay. If this person were "perfect" for you in every other respect, would you stay or would you go if the sex was not so great, or indeed bad. But we extend it one step further... If the object of your affection had an accident, or a medical condtion (such a stroke for the sake of example) and was no longer able to satisfy you sexually say 6 months after you have married them.... Would you stay or would you go.
Some would stay, some would not.
["]Which is better; dating for six months, introducing your partner to all your friends and family, making all sorts of future plans and then finally having sex and the person leaves or have sex early and the person leaves? I would think those seriously interested in establishing a relationship would want to find out as soon as possible.[/"]
First, Whether I was dating somone for 1 months, 6 months, or even a year... whether she was introduced to my family and friends or not has no bearing on whether we have had sex or not. And if the relationship failed in those critical early months, it is unfortunate. But I highly doubt if we both know what to expect from the other, Either one of is going to leave when we start. That is the whole point. We CAN know what to expect.
["]There is nothing wrong with wanting to get to know the person before having sex but to delay getting to know the person is a definate red flag, to use the popular euphemism. It is one thing to go slow regarding having sex and quite another to deliberately go slow learning about the other person.[/"]
That ultimately comes down in part to the "why my partner wants to wait", and in part to opinion. In this, our opinions differ. And thats what makes the world go round.
@MOLONOL | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 2/26/2006 12:58:28 PM | @MOLONOL
["]My present spouse and I only talked about sexual compatibility, and we WERE sexually compatible.[/"]
Actually, that depends on if you want to split hairs or not... and it is one I am going to split. Forgive me for not going through all those pages in this thread again to dig out the quote... but it is there I assure you... I believe that there is at least one in there were the poster stated that they had waited untill marriage after serious discussions... and it worked fine...
And I am certain that one posters had stated that after discussions with her (and I believe it was a her) previous boyfriends in LTR's, she knew whether or not they would be good together.
Don't say I am wrong unless you have gone back and re-read this entire thread again, please.
I just read through it in its entirety once... that was enough.
["]If either party is dishonest, or doesn't know, or if one party is more experienced than the other and has expectations which the other person can't even understand, or if there is abuse and at least one person cannot talk about it (which is not uncommon), or frigidity, or any of a myriad of other possible snags which can arise.[/"]
I already addressed dishonesty. If one party has expectations that the other person does not understand, then further communication is required. We are not talking about building a space shuttle here people... we are talking about sex. And while I would admit there are nuances, if you really have to, you can describe every single sexual act in minute detail. So unless your intended is that far below you on the intellectual level that you can not communicate with them, you ought to be able to describe what you want. Pornographers have been making a lot of money doing just that for a long time. As for sexual problems... if your partner has experienced them, then they obviously know about them. And assuming that you actually have honest communication, then you and he/she can then make decisions concerning them.
People keep saying "What if they are..." If they are, then "they" already know about them and ought to be able to discuss it intelligently. As I said in the beginning... My comments were not directed at Virgins.... and although I have seen it work for virgins... and yes, they have been married more than ten years, so they have stood the "time" test well enough for this thread, the process is a little different.
["]How do you KNOW when you don't have open communication? The answer: often, you don't. That sort of thing is most visible in retrospect. You see it in your rear view mirror, not your windshield.
Then take your time with the relationship so that you can see what is in the rearview mirror. Why does this have to be a race anyway? Additionally, if you take the time to foster acceptance and trust, honesty and open ness will come with it.
And really... although admittedly not relevant to this thread... if more people were honest in there interactions... particularely within the confines of this kind of relationship, the divorce rate would be 1% of what it is now.... Well... ok, maybe 3%. It is when you loose the ability for what ever reason to be honest with your spouse you can know that the relationship is in trouble.
["]Communication is important, but think of anything that might be important in a relationship besides communication, and then try imaginging replacing it with ONLY communication. For example, if it is very important for one partner that they meet each others's families, can you imagine the lunacy of suggesting, "Well, suppose we just TALK about meeting each others's families! That should be enough, right?" [/"]
The lunacy is yours. Nowere did I say replace. I did say, know what to expect. I will tell you, that if I were going to introduce a new lady to my family, you had better believe we would discuss it so she knew what to expect.
["]Again, however, talking is different from doing. And nobody has said that open and honest communication is unnecessary. Obviously, it's necessary. But is it, alone, sufficient? Is talking enough? Has it ever been enough for you? I know you're saying it COULD be, but has it been enough?[[/"]
This is likely the best question I have seen you post in many pages.
The answer lay, in part, to how you view sex. If the reason you are indulging before marriage is to establish compatibilty only, then you can establish it prior to the actual act. This as mentioned can be done communication, and learning about the other...
The establishment of compatibility then can allow for the delay of sex, as long as you believed that there was a reason to wait, and that it would be good when the time came.
And yes, MOLONOL.... I can establish to within a high degree of certainty whether or not someone will be sexually compatible with me long before engaging in sex.... and have done so.
["]So if you like sex, and don't stop having sex once compatibility is established, this somehow undermines your expressed intent to establish sexual compatibility?
That doesn't follow, my friend. If you're compatible, then you're going to enjoy sex, and probably keep doing it. Your logic isn't really logical.[/"]
It is entirely logical.... you state the purpose is to establish compatibility so that you know that when you are married, the sex will be good. This is the goal
You have sex for a time to establish compatibility.... goal accomplished
So now... any sex that follows from this time to the time of marriage, is not longer to establish compatibility any more, but for other reasons. Good, bad, or indifferent, remains to be seen, but can not be chalked up to the compatibility issue. And likely.... never really could.
["]You're acting like WANTING sex or DESIRING sex is somehow mutually exclusive with wanting to establish sexual compatibility. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you WANT sex and DESIRE sex, then establishing sexual compatibility will be a priority.
Of course people have sex because they want to. Big fire truck red "duh." But that doesn't mean that when you have sex with someone you are considering committing to, you are somehow making excuses, or that you have somehow ruined the alleged purity of your motives.[/"]
No... actually... I am not... I am simply saying... that if someone wants to have sex "now" and continue doing it throughout the course of the relationship, then don't try hiding behind the somescreen of saying "well, gee, I just wanted to know if we were compatible" Call it what it is. You want to have sex through the course of the relationship.
["]What is entirely lacking, therefore, is showing that celibacy until your wedding day somehow fosters these qualities better. Especially since nobody, including the advocates of this path, has stepped forward to say, "It worked for me."[/"]
As noted earlier in my post,there have been at least a couple who have said it did.\ | |
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That was too much of a brain workout for my first reading. But, I surely look forward to reading more. I'll be more prepared next time.
