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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/2/2006 3:38:37 PM | ^^only about fifty times…but hey, at least you didn’t make the ubiquitous and oh-so-heartwarming woman/car analogy 
Anyway…I understand the fact that very, very few men make the decision to wait until marriage for sex…I wish that more waited, but it is what it is. What I don’t really understand is the unwillingness of so many of the men who don’t fall into that category (who have posted here) to even consider the possibility of waiting under the right circumstances.
If you meet a girl who tells you at some point that she’s waiting, and you spend time with her and come to the conclusion that there isn’t a real connection there (for reasons other than the fact that she’s waiting), then there is obviously nothing wrong with not continuing to date her. I don’t even fault those of you that mention not wanting to date a woman who is religious (and waiting because of that), because you are not. I think that if two people have significantly different views on religion, this kind of incompatibility could lead to conflict down the road. Might as well recognize that fact from the start, and not waste your time or her time pursuing something that probably won’t work.
However, imagine meeting a girl with whom you connect…you find her attractive, you really enjoy spending time with her, and you have a similar values system (this is assuming you have one). While you don’t know it yet, she is waiting for marriage. From my own perspective, women with this belief place their future husband on a pedestal, meaning that it takes a very special guy to catch her attention/capture her heart. So if this girl chooses to spend time with and eventually date you, she obviously thinks really highly of you, and believes that there is a possibility that you could be the man she has likely prayed that she would meet one day. That’s a pretty major compliment.
And to this girl, many of you would say “Sorry, if you don’t put out now, I’m not interested”? That’s what I don’t really understand. How can the mere fact that she’s waiting be the precluding factor to you feeling a connection with her (i.e. – “If she wants to wait, she’s not the right girl for me”)?
One of the arguments I’ve seen is that you need to see if you’re “sexually compatible” or have similar sex drives before you commit to marriage. This sounds good, but if this approach was a fool-proof guarantee, it wouldn’t be so common to hear “We had amazing sex all the time before we were married, but after the wedding/the baby/whatever, it’s not the same.” I think there will be an ebb and flow to any couple’s sex life over the years (children, job stress, health issues, age, etc.), and the “I need to test drive her now to make sure we’re compatible” approach ignores this reality. If you end up marrying a woman knowing that one of her main “selling points” is that she’s supposedly “sexually compatible” with you, you’re probably going to end up unhappy or frustrated at some point. And without the perfectly “compatible” sex, is there going to be enough else there to make you want to stick around? I think that the time a couple has together before they are married is the time to build a rock-solid emotional bond. And while I don’t believe these things are necessarily mutually exclusive, some people seem to have their priorities a little mixed up. At least the guy who has waited for marriage knows that while he is looking forward to a long, happy sex life with his wife, if something happens to change that (either on a temporary or more extended basis), there is still no woman he would rather be with. He’s already proven this before, and if worse comes to worse, he could stick it out again, as could she. It seems the common attitude here is that if the sex isn’t to your liking (or if it's non-existent, even for a few months or a couple years), you’re gone, and I don’t think that kind of attitude will work too well in a marriage.
The other argument seems to be that any woman waiting for marriage must have no sex drive. This just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If a girl decides as a teenager to wait, you’re assuming that any girl who finds herself with a healthy sex drive will just give up on her promise, and that the only ones left waiting are the ones without. Again, this is off-base…if you make a promise to yourself and can exercise self-control, the decision to wait is in no way code for “I’m not interested in sex.” I would hope that a man in a committed, long-term relationship with a woman would be able to get a sense of this, without actually needing to have sex with her. For me, all that “I’m waiting” is code for is: “I’m not trying to put my health at risk,” “The only man I’m putting myself in a position to possibly have a child with will be my husband,” and “This is one of the ways that the man I marry (if that happens) will know that he holds a place in my heart that no one else ever has.” That’s it.
Anyway, I just think there are a lot of often baseless stereotypes attached to those of us who decide to wait until marriage. I commend any guys who are waiting, as well as the ones who haven’t waited, but are mature enough to not be slaves to the “test drive” theory, and who are open-minded enough to at least consider the possibility of waiting under the right circumstances. We don’t all think that sex is “just for making babies,” we don’t all plan on “just lying there” when the time comes, we're not all just waiting on a "piece of paper" (some of us believe marriage is a sacrament, and not just a legal certificate), and we certainly don’t all have “issues” from our past that make us think sex is “bad.” While this may be true of some women, I think with communication, a guy could detect any of these possible red flags well ahead of time, and then make an informed decision on whether or not to continue the relationship. It would be nice if guys could avoid these sweeping generalizations, and deal with each woman on a person-by-person basis, because some of us won’t set off any of those red flags – we’re normal, healthy women who simply made a choice to hold off on sex until we can share it with the man we marry. I believe that trust and respect are major aphrodisiacs for women. If a woman sees that her man respects her emotional and physical well-being enough to wait for marriage, she will be know that she can put her trust in him…and I think that in return, she will do whatever she can to make that man very, very happy.  | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/2/2006 7:34:13 PM |
Anyway…I understand the fact that very, very few men make the decision to wait until marriage for sex…I wish that more waited, but it is what it is. What I don’t really understand is the unwillingness of so many of the men who don’t fall into that category (who have posted here) to even consider the possibility of waiting under the right circumstances. - reverie79
You're missing something here, darling. I've been riding the crest of the wave of this thread for a while, now. And a lot of the guys you're so eager to judge HAVE waited for someone. I did. Once. A lot of us have, to one degree or another. And it's not that all of us feel the need to snog the woman on the first date. I can still wait. But until marriage? No. I've been down that road before.
Never, ever, EVER again.
I know you'd like to THINK that it creates this magical, holy, unbreakable bond between two people when they abstain from having sex. And wait. And wait. And wait and wait and wait and wait. Because, you know, waiting means you love the person that much more, right?
While you don’t know it yet, she is waiting for marriage. From my own perspective, women with this belief place their future husband on a pedestal, meaning that it takes a very special guy to catch her attention/capture her heart. So if this girl chooses to spend time with and eventually date you, she obviously thinks really highly of you, and believes that there is a possibility that you could be the man she has likely prayed that she would meet one day. That’s a pretty major compliment. - reverie79
No, she's not putting her man on a pedestal. She's putting her vagina on a pedestal. Her who-who is a holy of holies that only the high priest can enter, and probably only once a year. She doesn't think highly of me, or any other man. In fact, the odds are, she thinks very LOWLY of most men. Listen to your own tone when you came into this thread: disgust, disdain, disbelief. Take a stroll through the thread, and look at the women who've come through with your attitude.
I don't want to be on a pedestal. I know you'd like to think that having a woman wait until marriage is some underhanded way of complimenting me, but I was raised in a religious subculture like what you described. A guy I knew married a girl who waited. When she found out he'd had sex with ONE previous longterm girlfriend, she cried her heart out, and never forgave him.
That was his wedding gift: guilt. It amazes me how a religion supposedly composed of mercy and second chances inflicts so much guilt on people who don't deserve it.
And to this girl, many of you would say “Sorry, if you don’t put out now, I’m not interested”? That’s what I don’t really understand. How can the mere fact that she’s waiting be the precluding factor to you feeling a connection with her (i.e. – “If she wants to wait, she’s not the right girl for me”)? - reverie79
Yes, because of course, those of us who choose not to wait insist on having sex on the first date. Look, if you want people to understand the subtleties and nuances of your position, it sure would help if you offered a little understanding in return. The question everyone has answered in this discussion was, "Would you date a girl who wanted to wait until marriage?" It wasn't, "Can you wait at all?" Because I think the majority of folks here could easily say, "Yes, I can wait." A week, a month, whatever.
But are we going to make a permanent, legally-binding and - for many people - religious commitment without ever having sex?
No.
You're also ignoring the fact that a LOT of women have chimed in on this thread, and even on this very PAGE, and said the same thing:
No.
It ain't just a guy thing.
One of the arguments I’ve seen is that you need to see if you’re “sexually compatible” or have similar sex drives before you commit to marriage. This sounds good, but if this approach was a fool-proof guarantee, it wouldn’t be so common to hear “We had amazing sex all the time before we were married, but after the wedding/the baby/whatever, it’s not the same.” I think there will be an ebb and flow to any couple’s sex life over the years (children, job stress, health issues, age, etc.), and the “I need to test drive her now to make sure we’re compatible” approach ignores this reality. If you end up marrying a woman knowing that one of her main “selling points” is that she’s supposedly “sexually compatible” with you, you’re probably going to end up unhappy or frustrated at some point. And without the perfectly “compatible” sex, is there going to be enough else there to make you want to stick around? - reverie79
You know, that is the one meaningful argument I've seen that challenges some of the assumptions in this thread, and I'm surprised nobody has spent more time defending it.
You're right. There are no guarantees. Sexual compatibility today doesn't mean sexual compatibility tomorrow, or the day after, or a year from now, or ten years from now. And it is possible to grow into sexual compatibility. Just because you do NOT have it today, doesn't mean you won't have it tomorrow, or the day after, or a year from now, or ten years from now.
The flipside of that observation, though, is that YOU don't offer any guarantees, either. I know you'd like to think that you've taken the sure road, but you haven't. I know PLENTY of men and women who waited. And I watched them get shattered and divorced just like anybody else. Only, when they came out, there was the added disillusionment of what was supposed to be forever NOT being forever, and having waited for nothing.
I think that the time a couple has together before they are married is the time to build a rock-solid emotional bond. And while I don’t believe these things are necessarily mutually exclusive, some people seem to have their priorities a little mixed up. At least the guy who has waited for marriage knows that while he is looking forward to a long, happy sex life with his wife, if something happens to change that (either on a temporary or more extended basis), there is still no woman he would rather be with. He’s already proven this before, and if worse comes to worse, he could stick it out again, as could she. It seems the common attitude here is that if the sex isn’t to your liking (or if it's non-existent, even for a few months or a couple years), you’re gone, and I don’t think that kind of attitude will work too well in a marriage. - reverie79
Ha! I like how you assume that getting married leads to a long happy sex life. Yup. I just checked your marital status: single. It figures.
Just because you were willing to wait in the past doesn't mean that you're always going to wait. It doesn't mean that waiting is easy, or comes naturally. If you are inspired by religious guilt, it doesn't mean you necessarily even WANTED to wait. You just thought you had to.
And from a guy's perspective, I'll tell you that I've met my share of women who used sex, and withholding sex, as a weapon. I get skeptical when a woman starts talking to me about getting married, and then waiting for months or years. It usually sends up a red flag for me, and if you'd said what you just said on a date instead of writing it into a post on a message forum, I would politely finish up the date. And it would be our last. You don't plan for tragedy. It may come, and you deal with it if it comes, but abstinence does not train you to enjoy it.
The other argument seems to be that any woman waiting for marriage must have no sex drive. This just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If a girl decides as a teenager to wait, you’re assuming that any girl who finds herself with a healthy sex drive will just give up on her promise, and that the only ones left waiting are the ones without. Again, this is off-base…if you make a promise to yourself and can exercise self-control, the decision to wait is in no way code for “I’m not interested in sex.” I would hope that a man in a committed, long-term relationship with a woman would be able to get a sense of this, without actually needing to have sex with her. For me, all that “I’m waiting” is code for is: “I’m not trying to put my health at risk,” “The only man I’m putting myself in a position to possibly have a child with will be my husband,” and “This is one of the ways that the man I marry (if that happens) will know that he holds a place in my heart that no one else ever has.” That’s it. - reverie79
Yes, that would be a major concern, wouldn't it? And why doesn't it make any sense?
I've known women who got to the marriage bed, and then weren't able to make the transition from, "This is wrong, wrong, WRONG!" to "This is okay, now." It's called frigidity, and you're deluding yourself if you think it doesn't happen.
Also, when you're in the "Good girls wait!" crowd, if you have a high sex drive, the odds are pretty good that you messed up at some point along the way. And felt even MORE guilty as a result. Guilt is one of the biggest psychological blocks to enjoying your sex life. The mind is the most important sex organ in your body.
Anyway, I just think there are a lot of often baseless stereotypes attached to those of us who decide to wait until marriage. I commend any guys who are waiting, as well as the ones who haven’t waited, but are mature enough to not be slaves to the “test drive” theory, and who are open-minded enough to at least consider the possibility of waiting under the right circumstances. - reverie79
Unfortunately, though you are right, and not EVERYONE who wants to wait suffers from those stereotypes, I have found that a higher-than-normal percentage of folks who subscribe to the, "Wait until marriage" philosophy qualify for one or more of them.
You don't like the car analogy? Fine. Think about any important decision you can make, any life-long commitment, and then think about how many of them you make with no knowledge whatsoever of the outcome. Do you buy a house without ever having seen it, or do you run every possible check on it and have an estimator look that over from top to bottom before you put your name on the dotted line? Do you get pregnant, and then tell the doctor, "Okay, see you when my water breaks!" or do you check up on that child every live-long day, and do scans and blood tests and watch for abnormalities like a hawk? Do you visit a college before you choose to attend there? Or take a job at a company you've never seen, and know nothing about?
Maybe you do. But when you have a choice, generally no. And there is no single decision that can **** up your life like nothing else quite like getting married.
So you can put me strongly in the "Not just no, but HELL no" category on this one.
I'll have one more reply in a moment, but I need to post this. Geez, I got long-winded. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/2/2006 7:48:30 PM |
We don’t all think that sex is “just for making babies,” we don’t all plan on “just lying there” when the time comes, we're not all just waiting on a "piece of paper" (some of us believe marriage is a sacrament, and not just a legal certificate), and we certainly don’t all have “issues” from our past that make us think sex is “bad.” While this may be true of some women, I think with communication, a guy could detect any of these possible red flags well ahead of time, and then make an informed decision on whether or not to continue the relationship. It would be nice if guys could avoid these sweeping generalizations, and deal with each woman on a person-by-person basis, because some of us won’t set off any of those red flags – we’re normal, healthy women who simply made a choice to hold off on sex until we can share it with the man we marry. I believe that trust and respect are major aphrodisiacs for women. If a woman sees that her man respects her emotional and physical well-being enough to wait for marriage, she will be know that she can put her trust in him…and I think that in return, she will do whatever she can to make that man very, very happy. - reverie79
I love how you put "We don't ALL ... blah blah blah." It doesn't have to be ALL, sugar. Just one.
Maybe you don't PLAN on just lying there, but the big secret that nobody tells you if you chose to wait. The first time generally sucks. It's awkward. You don't know what you're doing. You've been taught for your whole life that sex is something you WAIT for. It's worth waiting for. You're wrong if you don't wait. You wait and wait and wait.
Then you get there, and there's this HUGE ceremony beforehand. It sets the mood. This is going to be the experience of a lifetime, right? Angels are going to sing. Fireworks are going to explode. I'm going to see God!
Except ... you don't.
It's called The Big Letdown.
And if you ARE the sort of woman who really has issues with sex, and only wants babies, and just lies there, well, having sex before you get married is certainly going to show that, isn't it? If one partner is adventurous, and the other isn't, then that's going to come out, isn't it?
I know you think this is a guys versus girls thing, but I know better. I got dumped into the dating pool again in my early 30s, and I met a LOT of women who came out of sexually frustrating marriages, and hit the dating scene like raving banshees. Women hit their sexual peak later than men, generally in their 30s or 40s.
They don't buy any of the crap you're selling, either. I can tell you that. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/2/2006 8:47:22 PM | This is called respect, a key ingredient in love.
==========================
Cybercher
You are right. Respect is a key ingredient in love. But the opposite of respect isn't sex, (no idea where that urban myth cme from!). The opposite of respect is "contempt".
Now have a really good look through this board and see how much contempt is displayed towards good men. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/2/2006 10:16:28 PM |
No, she's not putting her man on a pedestal. She's putting her vagina on a pedestal. Her who-who is a holy of holies that only the high priest can enter, and probably only once a year. She doesn't think highly of me, or any other man. In fact, the odds are, she thinks very LOWLY of most men. Listen to your own tone when you came into this thread: disgust, disdain, disbelief. Take a stroll through the thread, and look at the women who've come through with your attitude.
They also don’t tend to think highly of women like me either, seeing as I’m a big ol ho. :+)
You're also ignoring the fact that a LOT of women have chimed in on this thread, and even on this very PAGE, and said the same thing:
No.
It ain't just a guy thing.
I would be one of those women. For the most part we’ve been completely ignored. I guess since we don’t agree our opinion doesn’t count for much. Funny how that works….
And from a guy's perspective, I'll tell you that I've met my share of women who used sex, and withholding sex, as a weapon.
I’ve never understood women who do that. Why the frell would I want to punish myself? That’s just crazy talk!
I know you think this is a guys versus girls thing, but I know better. I got dumped into the dating pool again in my early 30s, and I met a LOT of women who came out of sexually frustrating marriages, and hit the dating scene like raving banshees. Women hit their sexual peak later than men, generally in their 30s or 40s.
They don't buy any of the crap you're selling, either. I can tell you that.
Add me to the list of women who don’t buy it. I spent 7 years with someone who wanted to “wait”. After marriage I was lucky if I had sex once a month. It was always sub par and it NEVER got better. He used religion to make me feel bad every chance he got instead of taking responsibility for HIS problem.
I will never make apologies to anyone ever again for being a sexual being and having a high libido. I will never again be with someone that doesn’t think sex is extremely important. I will never, ever be made to feel bad for expressing my God given sexuality. Yeah, that’s right boys and girls. Some of us are Christian and we don’t view sex as immoral, evil, disgusting or wrong outside of marriage. In fact, there’s a lot more of us out there than you think.
I’m telling ya; if I find someone I want to tackle on a consistent basis he will have NO idea what just hit him. If it ends up being a love-type-thing then he’d better make sure he has no plans for, oh, the next couple of years……
Look, I know some of you don’t get that sex and love are mutually exclusive. You can have fantastic sex with someone you don’t love (or even like all that much). You can have horrible sex with someone you do love.
I know some of you would like to believe that you get married and any sexual issues that arise can be solved. I hate to tell you but that’s often not the case. Why? Because it takes TWO people to make it better and frequently the other party isn’t all that interested in fixing things; most likely because they don’t have a problem with the way things are. You do. In all likelihood, it’s not going to get better and it will most likely get worse.
I would be the first to say that there’s nothing better than fantastic sex with someone you love. The flip side is that there’s nothing sadder than bad (or non-existent) sex with someone you love. | |
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Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 907 | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/3/2006 8:13:48 PM | | No way, I have to test the waters before I plunge. I think its selfish to do that, especially if he or she is not a virgin anymore anyways. Breaking in a virgin is only rewarding before the act, otherwise to see a women in pain is not rewarding at all. I have never gone past two dates without sex with anyone. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/3/2006 8:59:24 PM | Waiting could mean you wind up with someone with whom you are not sexually compatible. A marriage is more than sex, but sex is a primal drive and it IS important. If you don't believe that, try being in a marriage with someone who doesn't like or want sex, or who does not appeal to you after 20 years. Divorces are a lot harder and a lot more expensive than breaking up with someone.
The prohibition on sex before marriage is an outdated patriarchal idea based on the need for a woman to be a virgin--to insure that she isn't pregnant with another man's child. If a man wants a woman for ONLY sex, that will soon become apparent, and vice-versa.
What's all the fuss? We live in the 21st. century, not the Victorian era. There is nothing magical or sacred about being a virgin. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/4/2006 12:12:35 PM |
Waiting could mean you wind up with someone with whom you are not sexually compatible. A marriage is more than sex, but sex is a primal drive and it IS important. If you don't believe that, try being in a marriage with someone who doesn't like or want sex, or who does not appeal to you after 20 years. Divorces are a lot harder and a lot more expensive than breaking up with someone.
The prohibition on sex before marriage is an outdated patriarchal idea based on the need for a woman to be a virgin--to insure that she isn't pregnant with another man's child. If a man wants a woman for ONLY sex, that will soon become apparent, and vice-versa.
What's all the fuss? We live in the 21st. century, not the Victorian era. There is nothing magical or sacred about being a virgin.
****in' A! | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/4/2006 1:31:55 PM | | I agree with you .I would never marry a man I have not slept with, what if the two of you aren't compatible in that area? then what happens, you stay in a marraige with bad sex and you hope everything else holds it together, nmot a chance. Sex is a part of the bonding in any relationship that really helps in the bad times.Makes no difference wether you sleep with them on the first date or later on youdo it when it feels right for both of you. | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/5/2006 7:30:11 AM | There has been a lot said on this subject...and so I'm sure my message won't stick out among the others....
But here's from my experience.....I was a virgin until I dated my late husband. We had sex before we got married...but it was less than a month before and I had never had any sexual experience before him...so to me he WAS my sexual world. He satisfied my every known need. His size was perfect and his methods were great because they were all I knew. Looking back I am so glad of this....I never once desired anyone else. Sex = hubby
But now that he is gone I have had a couple sexual partners and am very suprised at how they are different. I have finally become comfortable with admitting this...my hubby and I had fairly lame sex. But ya know what? That was ok because I never knew the difference...and it's not like I look back now and think, "Man, if only our sex had been better."
BUT NOW it is different....I am aware of the sex scale : ....bad....lame....fair....good....great....amazing
So, I don' think I would be able to wait now.....which is crazy because had you talked to me say 7 years ago I wouldn't have even imagined sleeping with someone before being married to them.
So...that's my take on this subject.... | |
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| GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:12:14 AM |
Add me to the list of women who don’t buy it.
Where is the list, I'd like to sign my name as well.
I will never make apologies to anyone ever again for being a sexual being and having a high libido. I will never again be with someone that doesn’t think sex is extremely important. I will never, ever be made to feel bad for expressing my God given sexuality. Yeah, that’s right boys and girls. Some of us are Christian and we don’t view sex as immoral, evil, disgusting or wrong outside of marriage. In fact, there’s a lot more of us out there than you think.
Amen sister agree 100%! Ermm.... except I'm not Christian...not that there is anything wrong with that!  In fact I say all the power to you as a Christian to challenge the notion.
I do not judge those who make the choice for themselves to wait(although I think Molonel has made extremely rational arguments against it)...I too would appreciate not being judged for the choices I make for myself. | |
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