longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 26 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:20:58 PM | In Australia there was a problem with pimps running drug affected women as prostitutes
Eventually we made Pimping totally Illegal
Street Prostitution Legal in certain areas
The level of drug pushing in those areas has dropped
Associated crime has dropped
Many working women are now doing well out of it
I completely agree that many street prostitutes have been abused
I completely agree that many drug users and prisoners have been abused
While it is illegal these people are subject to street law
They continue to be victims
With it legalised many of them straightened up and got out, or straightened up and kept going, but with one very big difference
Now they had aims and a future
Prostitution has been around forever
It will continue to be around
Illegal Prostitution makes the women involved just targets for pimps and drug dealers
Legalise it and they have the opporunity to break away if they want to
..
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:40:48 PM | your sources are very suspect, given the small samples they work with
your RCMP friends, like the cops in most American big cities, have a very jaundiced view of vice situations----but I guarantee you that a $500 - $1000 a night call girl is not feeling about her life the way you think prostitutes do---and I will tell you this: when I was a practicing attorney, I represented a number of "working girls"----they actually liked the life, enjoyed making money for spending minimal time doing minimal things sexually----these were basically bar girls and street-hookers, they kind you talk about---so I would put my data-base of clients up against your RCMP guys any day of the week.
you wrote: "I myself have worked with the RCMP in some compacity"----did your work have anything to do with prostitutes? Were you doing sociological surveys? Psychological interviews? Social work write-ups? What exactly did you do "in some compacity"?
you might want to take a look at these two links for an opposing view:
http://www.bayswan.org/penet.html
and
http://www.bayswan.org/COYOTE.html
I think you need to balance your viewpoint so that you are not so limited in your vision of what prostitutes are all about.
You still did not with the non sequiturs in your post or with your "idiotic statements." You need to clean up the argument. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 4:11:30 PM | | Lets face it boys prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and yes some do choose to perform those services; lets face it the demand is there and you can make great money fairly quickly and easily. My argument for legalizing prostitution comes from a preventative ideology in that if it is legalized it could be taxed income and thus have to be regulated by health and safety standards. This would necessitate an outlet/place of business that would screen those who are using this service. As a result you would not end up with consequences like Pickton Farm in Vancouver. Also it would be safer because the use of protection would be mandatory and I imagine if it where to be legalized that some form of STD screening would have to be included. All of us who are single would agree this would be a very good thing. Not to mention the fact that legalization would take away the power of those who exploit women in this profession, like underage girls who are often lured into prostitution by male/ female pimps who tell young women you don’t have to follow your parents rules you can come and live with me and often introduce them to narcotics, get them hooked and then these young woman often find themselves in situations where they are exploited. Legalization would reduce the drug trade because it would then become a regulated profession. I'm not aware of any profession currently that knowingly allows the use of drugs. Just my perspective, but I think this profession will always be around in some form or another so why not legalize and regulate it for the safety of those who are involved by choice or not. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 6:38:43 PM | | Anytime they try to legitimize things that enslave and degrade women I am against that. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 8:58:05 PM |
Anytime they try to legitimize things that enslave and degrade women I am against that.
Who said anything about enslaving? If it's legal, they're perfectly free to leave whenever they want without being at the mercy of a pimp.
What's so degrading about it? The only reason it's degrading is because someone decided that their moral standards are superior than someone elses. It is the people who look down on hookers as inferior people who think this line of work is degrading. Myself, I look at them as people... no better nor worse than the doctor standing next to them. It may not be a line of work that I would participate in, but I wouldn't want to be a coal miner neither... does that make coal miners lesser people?
I'm just curious... is it only degrading because they're getting paid, or do you have a problem with people who enjoy having sex? There are people out there who like to have sex with lots of people (sometimes all at once), and a lot of them don't get paid. So which issue is it that you feel is the degrading one? | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:02:24 PM | | if its legal to have sex than why is it illegal to sell it. Nobody answered this question yet. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:11:51 PM | I answered it: Dignity can not be sold or should not be. It destroy's and
exploits humanity. How many 12 year olds have been lured into the
sex trade by money? How many drug addicts? Duh!
Anyway, if you're still confused then maybe you should ask yourself
if you'd date a former prostitute - start from there and work yourself
down to the answer to your own question. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:15:24 PM | | I think giving someone an orgasm should be one of the least worries of the law. It makes u feel good your not hurting anyone so where is the problem | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:36:18 PM | Ummmm.....what's your mom doing tonight? I can help her pay for some
of the drug prescription medicine's. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:46:36 PM |
ask yourself if you'd date a former prostitute
Would you date a woman who had sex with 400 different guys if she didn't get paid for it? | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:48:40 PM | | I have known a few they did it to get by and to make a better life for there kids. I know that sounds awful but I refuse to judge them. Should it be illegal? No. Should there be prostitues? No. If a woman does it to feed herself or her family then it is far better than stealing or dealing drugs. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 9:53:47 PM |
Would you date a woman who had sex with 400 different guys if she didn't get paid for it?
Ummm...NEVER!  | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 10:01:02 PM |
Would you date a woman who had sex with 400 different guys if she didn't get paid for it?
Ummm...NEVER!
Therefore your issue isn't REALLY with prostitutes, it's with people who enjoy having sex with many partners. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 10:07:06 PM | | I have dated a former prostitute she was a very sweet caring and loving young lady. It did not work for us she had to move but I would have married her I'm sure she made some guy very happy I know she did me. Miss ya Roxie | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 10:25:12 PM | @that guy him: I didn't say that. My issue is, to take your extreme example of
dating a woman who's slept with 400 men. I wouldn't date such a woman.
My dates consist of very classy women. Apparently from the angle of your
arguement you have no such qualms...all the power to you (just to catch anything).
But if you do it behind closed door's in the privacy out of public view than
go ahead - I couldn't care less since I don't run with such a crowd. BUT, if
you are gonna wave that in my face then we'll have a problem...society
will have a problem as it does now.
But, since you're asking questions here's one for you: I see you have kids, would
you have isssue with them choosing to become hookers? YOU BETTER
SAY YOU'D BE SUPPORTIVE OR STOP WASTING MY TIME. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 41 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/17/2006 11:25:19 PM | Just curious as to why someone would have to support their friends/relatives being prostitutes, to support the legalization of it
Thats like saying you would encourage your kids to clean septic tanks for a living
Now that is a perfectly legal job, but I would not encourage my kids to get into it
Where it once was a highly respected profession, prostitution no longer has that respect
This is because of the Drugs and Illegal aspects of it
Remove the Drugs and Pimps and then women/men would have the option
The legal prostitution in Australia has removed most of the young kids from the streets
The reason is as follows
The Legal Girls report the young ones to protect their industry
Where once it was pretty common for girls to be bashed/murdered/robbed etc, now that is a rarity as their conditions have changed
Pimps are virtually non existant, so the money belongs to the women now
That has enabled many to get out of this, if they wanted to
Keeping it illegal lets the pimps and pushers have a ready market, which they control
..
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 9:22:42 AM |
I didn't say that. My issue is, to take your extreme example of dating a woman who's slept with 400 men. I wouldn't date such a woman. My dates consist of very classy women. Apparently from the angle of your arguement you have no such qualms
Actually what I am trying to say is that nobody gave me the authority to be the moral leader of the world. What I am saying is that where someone has been is not always an indication of the person they are today. And who are you to say that a woman who's slept with 400 different men hasn't become a classy individual? What's to say that someone who's only slept with 1 man, or even none, is classy?
I couldn't care less since I don't run with such a crowd
When did I say I did? I am merely standing up for someone that I don't know since you feel the need to bash someone that you don't know.
BUT, if you are gonna wave that in my face then we'll have a problem...society will have a problem as it does now.
The only one waving anything in anyone's face is you trying to tell everyone that we all need to live our lives as you do. You are the one who believes your morality is superior to everyone else's. All most of us are trying to say is that hookers aren't going away so maybe we should look at ways of making it safer for those who choose to do it. You're the one saying that nobody should be allowed to do anything that you don't agree with.
I see you have kids, would you have isssue with them choosing to become hookers? YOU BETTER SAY YOU'D BE SUPPORTIVE OR STOP WASTING MY TIME.
Would I stop loving my child if she became a hooker? No. Would I abandon her? No. But obviously the only worth you put on anyone in your life is whether they have a respectable job or not, so I feel sorry for your kids if they ever turn out to be something you didn't want them to be. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 9:50:29 AM | Lazy
You need to re-read the post addressing your argumentation. Your use of non-sequitors, and ad-homenim arguments is vexing.
Your quote:
"I didn't say that. My issue is, to take your extreme example of
dating a woman who's slept with 400 men. I wouldn't date such a woman.
My dates consist of very classy women."
So are you stating that a woman who has had a number of partners is not classy? It would seem that your problem IS in fact with the numbers of people someone has slept with.
Another fallacy you have used is the straw man argument:
"I see you have kids, would you have isssue with them choosing to become hookers? YOU BETTER SAY YOU'D BE SUPPORTIVE OR STOP WASTING MY TIME."
This has been addressed previously, but I will address it as well. Arguing for the legality of a job type does not force you to advocate for people working in that particular field. Your argument boils down to 'if you want it to be legal, you have to support it' and that is obviously false. Personally I have worked in factories, and industrial roofing and I can tell you, while both are perfectly legal, I will never encourage my children to work such occupations.
Just because you support the legality of an occupation, does not mean you are forced to endorse you family in participating.
I have also been to Holland, and to Amsterdam; it is funny my views of the city, and the Red Light District were different then yours, and my views of the patrons in the coffee shops. I remember the District as being clean, and well kept, and the police presence was very noticable; it did not feel dirty...But I don't judge people based on their chosen occupation. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 11:45:02 AM | In short, we ALL have a moral gene within us. We are essentially the same
with like desires and dislikes; i used the example of your daughter or
mother as a means of triggering the empathy/moral gene. It's there and I
know this because I think we all here are sane.
Re Amsterdam: it's probably true that you had a different impression as I was
on a 3 hour stop-over - i was in & out quickly but that was the impression that
I rec'd and conveyed to my friends....not that really matters in this thread. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:02:48 PM | Lazyboy...
Stop the fallacy!
Your quote
"In short, we ALL have a moral gene within us. We are essentially the same
with like desires and dislikes; i used the example of your daughter or
mother as a means of triggering the empathy/moral gene. It's there and I
know this because I think we all here are sane."
That is an argument from authority, and a non-sequitor all in one. You state your conclusion is correct (that there is a moral gene) because you 'it's there' and you 'know this'...that is the argument from authority...and the reason 'because we are all sane' is the non-sequitor. Being sane has nothing to do with a 'moral gene'.
You opinion is not an argument at all. It is a statement that has no factual underpinnings. It is akin to me saying:
"I know there are purple monkies reading your mind because they are there and I know this because I think we all here are sane." | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:14:13 PM | From authority eh? You have free-will to chart your life into the direction
you want. Some people don't. Exploitation; It's a brand
of authority that is excersised excessively in today's world be it in
congress or on the street's. That brand of 'authority' we can live without.
Some people won't rest until we live in a state on Anarchy and moral
decay - they will become the true benifactors. Society is judged on how it treat's it's most
vulnerable citizens, so, to allow our law's to become lax invites exploitation and
after that people who are the greediest and rich will truly do with
this world as it wants.
Didn't they teach you that in law school? | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 47 | |
| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:25:58 PM | Under supervised (health-wise) cinditions...along with the appropriate taxation. The actual question should be "Pimping....should it be totally outlawed?" Hooking someone on drugs in order to force them into prostution should rate right up there with violent sexual crimes. The prostitution part should be legalized. As far as the point of it being "work available, therefore you are not entitled to welfare" or UI benefits...that could be side-stepped. There are a lot of people who are on welfare that could be working a job...that pays far less than their training and skill levels have garnered them in the past. It is this unwillingness to force people into poor jobs that makes our society what it is (I neither like nor dislike this idea....so don't be burning me for it.) Work-fare has been tried...but usually it is only successful when the PAY exceeds that which one would reasonably expect from a similar position where the pay is less...such as in the private sector vs gov't sector. (Example...building cleaners...lot of companies pay minimum wage for it and get contracts to do this work...but there are some doing the same job for union wages and benefits.)
Anyhow's....sex for sale can be a great source of income when regulated and there is no reason for it to NOT be allowed. Take the risk out of having sex for pay, and eliminate a lot of the objections of those who think women are "forced into it". Less drug use, less violent crimes against women, more tax dollars to gov't coffers, less spread of STD's due to the health care regualtions that would be needed for licensing, etc. The benefits would go a long ways against the cons of such a change. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:35:43 PM | Lazy...
Your name is accurate, given your obvious failings in understanding the critique's of your arguments. You continually abuse numerous logical fallacies: non-sequitors, straw man arguments, arguments from authority, appeals to fear...etc...etc. You have yet to present a cogent argument that is not riddled with any number of these problems.
An example of a logically consistent argument, that argues against prostitution may look something like this:
1. In my opinion prostitution, while illegal, has caused the exploitation, degredation, and dehumanization of many females, both young and old.
2. The dehumanization, degredation, and exploitation are not linked to the legality, or illegality of prostitution; those qualities are associated with the act of prostitution.
3. If prostitution is legalized, the act will become more accessible (i.e. people will be able to use prostitutes more often the prior).
4. If the act is more accessible, and the act enforces negative stereotypes, the negative stereotypes will be more commonly held.
4. Conclusion: The government should try to avoid enforcing negative stereotypes on women, therefore prostituion should not be legalized.
The conclusion is consistent with the premises, i.e. dependant upon them. If the premises fail, so to does the conclusion. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:44:09 PM | @vat: You are clearly an intelligent person...;however, this is coming from
someone who didn't go to university.
But I don't need a degree to know what's right or wrong. Oh yeah, I am lazy LOL....
I'm not exageratting but it would be interesting to know who's arguments are
more compelling here: a lazy & sometimes incomprehendible-grammatically-challenged-guy,
or a university educated one. 
....and thanks for the tip: i'll study it. | |
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| should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/18/2006 12:47:33 PM | I think it should be legal.
Making it illegal does nothing to stop it, it simply hands over the fate of these women to pimps and restrict their access to support systems.
It's just like drugs. You will never get them under control while you keep them illegal. | |
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